Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 19, 2014, 07:04:38 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 1046
1  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Polls on Same-Sex Marriage State Laws on: February 27, 2014, 04:11:33 pm
I think the ruling says that Kentucky (like Oregon) recognizes same-sex marriages from other jursidictions, not that same-sex marriage is legal there.

Not according to this.

I don't know why you interpret "legally recognized" to mean "issues same-sex marriages" instead of "recognizes out-of-state same-sex marriages."  If anything, "legally recognized" sounds more like the latter to me.  Plus, every source I've seen indicates this recognizes pre-existing marriages only.
2  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Anyone notice younger posters are often annoying for trying to fill a role? on: February 27, 2014, 04:08:58 pm
Adopting traits and behaviors just to signal your membership in a social or cultural group?  Yeah, BRTD, you certainly never would do something like that.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Polls on Same-Sex Marriage State Laws on: February 27, 2014, 04:05:43 pm
I think the ruling says that Kentucky (like Oregon) recognizes same-sex marriages from other jursidictions, not that same-sex marriage is legal there.
4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gallup: Romney viewed favorably by 47% on: February 26, 2014, 02:47:24 am
How ironic - he was born in 1947!!!

No.
5  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Best Arcade Fire album on: February 22, 2014, 04:08:32 pm
1. Funeral
2. Suburbs
3. Neon Bible
4. Reflektor
6  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Washington '14: The Dullest Midterm That You Ever Did See on: February 22, 2014, 12:25:29 am
New entrant in WA-04: Dan Newhouse, former GOP state representative and Ag Director under Governor Gregoire. I actually like Newhouse quite a bit (for a Republican). I hope he wins.

I like Newhouse too.  I'm also worried about Clint Didier, and the inexplicably strong base he has in the Tri-Cities.  Congressman Clint Didier...ugh.
7  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Washington '14: The Dullest Midterm That You Ever Did See on: February 21, 2014, 11:49:37 pm
What's the name the wind whispers to the wheat

From Pasco to the Okanogan?

Clint...

...Clint Didier.
8  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of @midnight on: February 20, 2014, 02:27:20 am
We watch it, it's solid fun, Chris Hardwick doesn't annoy me as much as he annoys other people, no hate
9  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Which of these three songs best represents the 90s? on: February 17, 2014, 02:17:30 am
"Semi-Charmed Life" is probably more representative of the 1990s than any song I can think of offhand.  Doot doot doot!  Also, meth.

Option 3 for the poll, though the top 3 quintessential 1990s are (in no particular order):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DSSxpeLpxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBA4fM-u1jE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ggJS0p-QQc

That is the first time I have ever heard of any of those songs.

The second two are pretty obscure singles (at least relative to some of the bands' other songs), but "Santa Monica" got some pretty serious radio play.
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death Penalty decision imminent for Boston Bomber on: February 16, 2014, 05:08:15 am
OK, so your problem with punishing people is that it's not either compensatory or deterrent.

I have a problem with punishing people when it's not compensatory or a deterrent.

Here's my basic position.  I think the family or estate of a victim is not necessarily relevant to the criminal punishment.  That would be revenge and a criminal case is brought by the state so it doesn't really fit.

Yeah, that's kind of weird, but fundamentally our system does charge people with breaches against the order imposed by the state (or whatever).

I think criminal law is partly based on the equitable principle that if you deprive someone of liberty and break the social contract with the state, you should suffer to bring about equity in society.  Equity as between the criminal and the rest of society, so that the criminal isn't benefiting from the peace of society without reciprocating.  Equity as between the victim and the criminal so that the criminal has an equitable reduction in his liberty to prevent a type of quasi-unjust enrichment of liberty.

I understand what you're saying, but that seems to basically be the a legalistic paraphrase of the same moral claim I'm objecting to.  Yeah, I get that people feel that justice has been violated and the way of "restoring the balance" is by inflicting suffering on the person responsible.  I think it ties into the instinctual human hatred of inequity.  Except, in this case, the way of fulfilling the desire for inequity is the state executing someone.  Very occasionally, that person didn't even commit the crime.  This is not some sort of bland, procedural thing.  This isn't restitution.  This isn't based on some straightforward moral principle.  It's having the state kill people because it satisfies a very instinctual sense of "justice" that we can't really explain coherently.  How comfortable are you with that?
11  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Hot or not: Sonja Sohn on: February 15, 2014, 08:18:39 pm
We gotta stop turning this forum into Reddit.

Because "Hot or not" threads?

Also, was a photo with a middle finger seriously edited to a link because NSFW? ...

Some of us work at Mennonite bookstores, jackass.
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Nevada's Repuplican Gov: State SSM ban 'no longer defensible in court' on: February 14, 2014, 12:52:28 am
It's not a marriage..who is the husband? Who is the wife?

appeal to tradition fallacy
13  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How long until an openly gay or lesbian candidate is viable for President? on: February 13, 2014, 05:59:38 pm
I really doubt we would have elected a black president before a majority of Americans professed tolerance of interracial relationships.
14  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death Penalty decision imminent for Boston Bomber on: February 12, 2014, 03:24:55 am
I'm glad you addressed my hypothetical in that way.  This is really complicated philosophical stuff and I think we can benefit from getting our difference out in the open.  What you're saying is that there's no retribution you would support.  Is that right though?

If we're defining retribution as a punishment based entirely off the idea that someone "deserves" to suffer for bad conduct, yes.

In the case of murder in my no deterrence world, would oppose tort damages for their family members in a civil suit?  If not, then the problem is that the death penalty or jail is not compensatory for the family?

No, because I don't see those as exclusively retribution: it's compensatory.  Are you arguing for the state-sanctioned execution of a criminal as being compensation toward the victim's family?  That's a plausible argument, but it seems kind of troublesome...
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: WA: Inslee suspends death penalty on: February 11, 2014, 03:11:03 pm
HP

They've only used it twice since the year 2000, so this isn't much of anything but bandwagon jumping for show.

Show for whom, though?  It's hard to imagine a majority of Washingtonians don't support the death penalty.
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Scott Walker is either a liar or guilty of voter fraud on: February 10, 2014, 03:15:24 pm
"had just become a teenager and voted for Ronald Reagan"

Considering he said "had just become a teenager," which is an accurate decription of turning 13, why not Option C -- the dude misspoke, and meant something like "supported Ronald Reagan"?  This was clearly an off-the-cuff error.
17  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: anyone here think gun control is predicated upon on: February 09, 2014, 06:59:37 pm
thinking guns are tacky? As an FYI, this is psychological projection. I had initially been supportive of 2A rights but as I got older I realized that most gun users are tacky and felt like gun control was something I could get behind.

"tacky"?
18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Polls on Same-Sex Marriage State Laws on: February 09, 2014, 05:42:28 pm
Taking a look at their demographics, I see they are severely underpolling non-whites with them being only 9% of the sample, yet they make up 18% of Pennsylvania's population according to the 2010 census.  It also appears they are underpolling Protestants.  On the other hand, their sample is significantly skewed towards older respondents.

18% of Pennsylvania's registered voters, voting-eligible population, voting-age population, or population?  And was this a poll of likely 2014 voters, all voters, adults, or what?  Depending on the answers to those two questions, we could easily be within the MoE here.  And even if this sub-sample misses the MoE, that's a sign that they're not weighting well, not necessarily that their sampling is bad.  It takes more than one MoE miss to justify assuming bad sampling.

(They may suck -- uni polls often do -- I'm just explaining that we need soldier evidence than just this.)
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The NRCC is scamming voters out of their money on: February 07, 2014, 01:58:29 pm
Apparently they got the idea from the liberals. Fight fire with fire!

No; that kind of stuff has been going on for years (although I don't like that either) on both sides, but there's no misleading contribution page.

It might not be particularly new, no. Things that work are often copied.

I like how he noted a significant difference between the examples you were giving and this thread, and you replied like you were agreeing with him, except you completely ignored the significant difference he's observing.

Does this work for you in actual human conversations, or is it just something you think works in text?  It doesn't.
20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death Penalty decision imminent for Boston Bomber on: February 07, 2014, 01:50:36 pm
Here's why you're wrong.  First, even if the individual wrongdoer if not influenced by deterrence, there can be a deterrence value to society at large.  But, deterrence isn't the only reason why we punish morally wrongdoing.

I don't understand where you got the idea that I'm neglecting the possibility of deterrence to society at large.  I even mentioned it specifically: "I don't really, philosophically, understand the point of punishing bad people if it doesn't deter them or other bad people."  I also explicitly stated I'm putting aside deterrence, since deterrence doesn't seem to have much to do with claims that certain people "deserve to die."

Here's a thought experiment.  We invent a magic pill that makes people incapable of murder.  Would that be an acceptable alternative to punishment?  Someone has just killed a young child in cold blood, but we know 100% they will never do it again.  Is that good enough?  

I suppose the objection to this would be that punishment also raises social consciousness and when people hear about the punishment, they will also be deterred from murder.  Then, say we also have a pill we can drop into the water supply that will raise the social consciousness about the wrongfulness of murder as much as life in prison or the death penalty.

In this world, would we be OK letting murders go free with no punishment at all?  I suspect most people would not.

The short answer (because it's late and I'm tired) is: ask most mrder victim's families.

You didn't explain how I'm "wrong" at all.  You just indicated that most people disagree with me.  Why do they disagree with me?  What's the logical reason?  Personal catharsis?  If so, do you think finding catharsis in cruelty/killing is something we should be encouraging and celebrating?  (Maybe the answer is "yes" in respect to crime victims' families, but is this behavior healthy when it manifests like it did in this thread, from people who probably weren't hit very hard emotionally by these events?)

In any case, none of this still explains the idea that someone "deserves" to die.  It explains why their death is useful to others' emotional well-being.  And, yes, actually, if there were a pill that magically cured someone of their malevolent tendencies, and we removed the variable of detterence, I would not necessarily support punishing the person.  There would be no utility to punishing the person.  Best case scenario, you'd be inflicting suffering on a bad person with no capacity for malevolence (pointless cruelty); worst case scenario, you'd be inflicting suffering on a now-good person (pretty sadistic).  Our animal minds may tell us this is "just," but our animal minds can be pretty perverse.  That's why we have any of these problems in the first place.
21  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: GA lawmaker equates women with cows and pigs on: February 07, 2014, 01:34:11 pm
I am astounded as to how stupid some militant pro-choice Americans are.   

Haha, are you suggesting this behavior of misunderstanding analogies is somehow specific to pro-choice Americans?  If not, what is the point of phrasing your sentence that way?
22  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: GA lawmaker equates women with cows and pigs on: February 06, 2014, 06:00:42 pm
That's not even the big problem here, Nathan.  There's nothing offensive in "comparing" things, because comparing them doesn't equate them!  It's meant to show some significant similarity.  It's not meant to equate the two things in ways besides that similarity.  This whole "you can't compare x to y!" thing totally misunderstands the point of analogies.

This is especially bad when someone uses a reductio ad absurdum argument -- which "reduces an argument to the absurd" by showing how that argument, applied consistently, would require you to accept something absurd/terrible.  I've seen people on the Atlas use a reductio ad absurdum to show how an argument to support thing A would require someone to accept awful thing B, and then someone shoots back, "but you can't compare A and B!  B is terrible!"  No duh.  That's the idea.

The phrase "you can't compare __ and __" needs to die, because you can always compare two things.  The question is whether the comparison is accurate and meaningful.

Sorry, rant over.  It's just tough to see this behavior on a forum where we all should know better.
23  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Alaska Marijuana Legalization Gets Enough Signatures To Appear on Aug. 19 ballot on: February 06, 2014, 02:27:14 pm
+1 to the idea that Alaska's libertarianism is overrated.

Alaska's electorate is full of lower middle class suburbanites.  I'm sure they have their libertarian leans, but I doubt they have them at exceptional rates.  A lot of Republicans support pot legalization, I think because fewer of them have religious prohibitions against doing so than with our cultural issues.  Supporting pot legalization doesn't mean much if you're basically a traditionalist on any cultural policy that touches on your personal views.  I really doubt the Republicans in suburban Anchorage are actually "libertarian" in any meaningful sense, and the libertarianness of hard-scrabble rural areas is probably overestimated too.   I would imagine there are a lot of socially conservative Democrats in hard-scrabble rural areas (since hard-scrabble rural areas tend to be poor), more than hardcore "to each his own" Republicans.  That's especially true considering how many of the Democrats in rural Alaska are native -- not that natives are socially conservative (Native Americans on the mainland are probably more socially liberal than whites), but they're certainly less socially liberal than they are Democratic.

Alaska may have more social-left/economic-right voters than vice-versa, but I don't think it's by much, and I don't think it's anywhere near enough to make for a social-liberal majority.

Just because someone expresses a hands-off attitude doesn't mean they're "libertarian."  Plenty of "hands-off" rural voters see social liberalism as an imposition on their right to live their traditional way of life.  "Get away from me" is not synonymous with "to each their own."
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death Penalty decision imminent for Boston Bomber on: February 06, 2014, 12:38:21 pm
Not to interrupt the gung-ho-fest, but could someone actually respond to the point I made above?

I think it is necessary for heinous-enough crimes where guilt is certain for the symbolic display of the power of the justice as wielded by the state to show that such crimes cannot be allowed in society.

I think that's a potentially reasonable argument, even if I'm not sure it's true.  It's really the people who are calling to inflict the most pain possible on him because he "deserves" it I'm asking.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death Penalty decision imminent for Boston Bomber on: February 05, 2014, 08:47:05 pm
Not to interrupt the gung-ho-fest, but could someone actually respond to the point I made above?
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 1046


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines