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January 16, 2017, 09:51:27 pm
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News: Cast your Ballot in the 2016 Mock Election

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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Breaking News: New forum is up and running - sign up now! on: Today at 06:53:17 am
The forum has certainly been a success. Was digging through some archives here and realize how much it recreates the old school feel that this forum had. Definitely made me miss the fights with herr Inks and before his new moderation standards brought the quality down here and a massive wave of sh!t posters registered here.

So go post there instead if you love it so much.
2  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Eharding on: January 15, 2017, 10:00:03 pm
He is a libertarian like me. Smiley

You're not exactly what one would call a Libertarian...
3  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The CrabCake Bureau of Funny Post Archival on: January 15, 2017, 09:56:56 pm
"non-existent Russia threat"

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

-It is, indeed, non-existent.

I know you're a Russian internet troll, but you're like the third or fourth one we've had and at this point I almost feel like someone at the FSB is under the impression that the forum is a highly influential website.  If so, then you folks have made a terrible mistake Tongue

Not true.  The FSB should be made aware that this is a highly influential website, and that all admins here accept bribes.

4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Calls NATO Obsolete and Dismisses EU in German Interview on: January 15, 2017, 08:48:00 pm
"non-existent Russia threat"

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

-It is, indeed, non-existent.

I know you're a Russian internet troll, but you're like the third or fourth one we've had and at this point I almost feel like someone at the FSB is under the impression that the forum is a highly influential website.  If so, then you folks have made a terrible mistake Tongue

-No mistake. It's influential enough. What were the other two or three? ;-)

I really do live in Michigan and did vote straight Republican this year. I doubt this "Russian internet troll" thing is anything more than American propaganda. Russophobe trolls like BRTD are very real, though.

It really isn't though Tongue  There was a guy named Eglitt or something like that who was around prior to the election and then I forget the other one (he wasn't around nearly as long).  Friends of yours, I assume.  In any case, you're not fooling anyone here.
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Calls NATO Obsolete and Dismisses EU in German Interview on: January 15, 2017, 06:55:47 pm
"non-existent Russia threat"

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

-It is, indeed, non-existent.

I know you're a Russian internet troll, but you're like the third or fourth one we've had and at this point I almost feel like someone at the FSB is under the impression that the forum is a highly influential website.  If so, then you folks have made a terrible mistake Tongue
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Clarence Thomas to Swear in Pence on: January 15, 2017, 05:57:47 pm
Uh, isn't this kinda problematic when it comes to the separation of powers, even if it's symbolic?

Why? Joe Biden was also sworn in by Sonia Sotomayor?
That strikes me as problematic too. Justices should be politically independent -- of course they have their political preferences too, but they certainly shouldn't be showing them this obviously.
100% agree
7  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: If Ds win the Senate in 2018, probability it was due to an "out of class" flip? on: January 15, 2017, 02:01:16 pm
The only shot is if Collins runs for Governor in 2018 which - while not impossible - seems unlikely.
8  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: OH: JD Vance planning to run statewide on: January 15, 2017, 11:34:15 am
Given what I've heard of his book is essentially "my lazy, good for nothing kin need to stop fornicating and get pulling on their bootstraps," I don't think he's as potent a candidate as DC Conservative worms think he his.

The first half of the book is terrific as are the 1-2 pages where he talks about why folks in Appalachia tended to have such a fierce dislike of Obama (he's everything they're not: flourishes in meritocratic society, a good father with a loving and stable family, articulate, a minority, intellectual, from a big city, etc, etc), why they resent successful recent immigrants more than almost anyone else (essentially "It's my country and you're doing it better than me; how dare you!" Tongue  My words, not his), how fake news has gotten completely out of control (even as early as 2010) due to the complete lack of trust in the media.  However, the second half (aside from the two pages I mentioned) is increasingly terrible (it starts getting bad once he joins the army).  It shifts to boilerplate right-wing "lazy poor people don't work hard, all I had to do in order to pull myself out was be a genius, go to Yale Law School, and pursue a career that paid really well" talking-points.  I also want to note the particularly cringe-worthy moment where he was asked why he wants to work in the field of law he ended up choosing during a job interview and replied "Well, the pay's pretty good, right?" (paraphrasing, I forget the exact words, but it was gross).  And naturally, he allows no room for even the possibility that corporate America just might also be contributing to some of the problems afflicting the white working-class through the positions they lobby for.  I read an editorial in either The New Republic or The Atlantic (I forget which) calling Vance "the false prophet of blue America," and I think that's spot on.  All he really does in the second half of the book is repackage the same old non-sense about mythical hordes of welfare queens, "gee whiz, all it takes is a little hard work, don't ya know Smiley ," "government can only make things worse," etc.  The first half is a fascinating and empathetic look at Appalachia, but the book doesn't offer any serious solutions and devolves into a pretty generic ideologically self-serving conservative Coffee Table Bookô in the second half (albeit one that's still far more coherent and better written than most).  I get why Peter Thiel liked the book so much Tongue 

I also get why Vance has the perspective he does given his life experiences.  To be fair, it can be incredibly tempting to say "I pulled myself out of the hole so why can't these people," but he should also know better than most that it is nowhere near that simple.  This is a recurring issue in the book, btw: over-simplification of things that are inconvenient for his worldview.  For example, when he argues child services and social workers are generally extremely bad for families and do more harm than good, my thought is "okay, I agree the foster care system in this country is a joke.  That said, say we get rid of child services and you have kids being sexually abused by their parents or kids like you who had at least one parent who 1) was threatening murder-suicide to their >12 year-old while speeding on the highway and 2) was so physically abusive that the child often lived with their grandparents, and 3) harassed their own child for a clean urine sample b/c everyone else in the family was using drugs.  What if the kid isn't smart enough to get into an Ivy League law school or even a college of any sort?  Is the government really wrong to say 'okay, some of these situations may require outside intervention for the child's safety or at least an investigation to determine whether this is the case?'"  For obvious reasons, Vance has no interest in having that discussion.). 

Another example is when he argues people sometimes throw away low-paying jobs through a lack of commitment/aversion to hard work and there are certainly some folks like that.  I've even met one or two.  However, Vance conveniently ignores the fact that if you want to attract a higher quality employee, you as an employer might want to offer better compensation than a minimum wage that's so low that it isn't even a livable wage.  You simply are not gonna get the same applicant pool if you pay someone minimum wage with crappy benefits as you would if you paid them even $15 an hour (still not great) and/or offered really good healthcare benefits.  And again, minimum wage in most (if not all) states is not a livable wage.  It certainly isn't in Ohio; I can tell you that much.  I realize that it's not always possible to pay employees more (especially in lower-level positions or for more menial work), but if that's the case then there is a piece of this that is also the employer making a trade-off whether they realize it or not.  It may or may not be fair, but it is a reality and ignoring it the way Vance does strikes me as willful over-simplification.  These are just two small examples; I could probably find much better ones if hadn't returned the book to the library a few weeks ago. 

As for Vance running for office, the more I think about it, the more I think it sounds like he's suffering delusions of grandeur (or at least that the book's reception went to his head, assuming he actually does run for office).  No one knows who he is and he'd be a terrible fit.  Here's how folks will see him: "Hey guys, so I left Ohio to go to an Ivy League law school and went to go work for some Silicon Valley rich dude (Peter Thiel).  I wanna run for office, so I moved back to Ohio to run for office.  I wrote a book about poor white people; liberals love it!  Did I mention that I wrote a book?"  He'll get destroyed if he runs in a heavily WWC area and/or one that is part of greater Appalachia. 

I guess I could *maybe* see him winning an open state house seat due to a clown-car primary in a district like HD-52 or HD-54, but those won't be open this cycle and don't he'd come anywhere close to winning a primary against an incumbent.  SD-7 recently opened up, but that vacancy was already filled and I don't see Vance winning a primary there either (certainly not against an incumbent).  Maybe he's just gonna run for city council or something *shrug*  If he runs statewide, he'll be the Jon Huntsman of OH politics this cycle, to the extent that anyone even pays attention to him at all.
9  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The JJC Landfill for Absurd, Ignorant, and Deplorable Posts VI on: January 14, 2017, 11:02:32 pm
Mitt Romney was wrong then and is wrong now. Putin is among the most moral current leaders of any present Great Power.

Is this real?

EHarding is probably another Russian troll like what's-his-name.
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate" on: January 14, 2017, 07:35:46 pm
Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.

It's like the "not my president" BS. Yes he is your president (or will be in a few days), just as Putin would be your president if you were Russian. Refusing to acknowledge the fact means you won't be able to fight him as effectively.

Given the way the Trump and his future administration have signaled their intention to bend over for him, one could argue that Putin effectively will be our president.

Sounds about right.
11  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Clarence Thomas to Swear in Pence on: January 14, 2017, 07:34:16 pm
Pence clearly has no problem with folks who sexually harass women, so I guess this makes sense.

You mean like Bill.

Yes, or like Clarence Thomas and Donald Trump.  And FTR, I do think Bill Clinton should've been removed from office and that it's disgraceful that groups like NOW were nowhere to be found during that mess, but thanks for playing Smiley
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Clarence Thomas to Swear in Pence on: January 14, 2017, 05:57:51 pm
Pence clearly has no problem with folks who sexually harass women, so I guess this makes sense.
13  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The JJC Landfill for Absurd, Ignorant, and Deplorable Posts VI on: January 14, 2017, 02:39:29 pm
Context (bolded the part that makes this a terrible post):

Nothing will happen, His supporters are too deluded.

The men will only look up to him more for his tremendous womanizing skills. Plus, he's so rich that he can soak Obama hotel beds in urine and pay off the help the next day!
14  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: George R. R. Martin thinks The Winds of Winter will be out this year on: January 14, 2017, 02:37:49 pm
It'd be less galling if he'd designated some sort of Christopher Tolkien-esque literary executor to tie up the series in the event of his demise. But he's explicitly refused to do that. (I think it's understandable that he has, for various reasons, but it's still incredibly frustrating.)

I volunteer for the position.

Joking aside, I don't see why he wouldn't because he gave the ending away to the show's creators. This move seems hypocritical.

Not really since the show-runners clearly have little-to-no interest in following the books at this point.  Beyond which, I suspect he only gave them broad strokes, people have this idea that everything's planned out already to the smallest detail and that seems kinda ridiculous.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What if a "Trump sex tape" exists? on: January 14, 2017, 01:49:49 pm
At this point: who care. But obviously the media will have a field day and pay attention to it while ignoring the Trump administration handing over classified information to the Kremlin or taking away people's healthcare. Evangelicals will be mad but forgive him when he defunds Planned Parenthood.

Sounds about right

His supporters would say that it was a lookalike in the video, or that he was spliced in somehow.

Actually, I could easily see Trump insisting that it is him in the video due to the extent that his egomaniacal delusions warp his perception of reality.  I wouldn't be surprised if he tweeted something along the lines of "FAKE NEWS still panicking over my HISTORIC win, stoops to releasing sex tape of me which I hear already has record-breaking # of views.  DISHONEST MEDIA won't report that woman was VERY satisfied and won't talk about HUGE job growth.  Sad."  
16  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Is this thread morally acceptable? on: January 14, 2017, 11:31:10 am
It's socially acceptable and fiscally unacceptable.
17  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) (Turn Open) on: January 13, 2017, 09:56:45 pm
Littlefinger's Financial Strategy (DO NOT STEAL):

1. Make everyone think you're a financial wizard
2. Accumulate huge debts to one lord. DON'T PAY ANYTHING BACK.
3. Have the Crown declare a partial debt default
4. Have the Crown remove the lord's titles
5. Get yourself named the new lord

It works, I guess...


Some folks just hate success, I suppose Tongue

18  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Is making stupid "is X morally acceptable?" polls morally acceptable? (Serious) on: January 13, 2017, 08:29:19 pm
I consider myself morally acceptable.
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate" on: January 13, 2017, 07:22:54 pm

Because Donald Trump isn't a legitimate President
20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Opinion of Glenn Greenwald on: January 12, 2017, 11:08:45 pm
He'll get >50% HP in this poll for not being entirely credulous about the CIA's claims regarding the Trump campaign, but I predict that he'll become much more popular around here within the next four years. It won't be long before Trump's administration becomes the main target for most investigative journalists concerned with US politics.

This
21  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Wisconsin Megathread on: January 12, 2017, 07:17:47 pm
Burke was actually considered a pretty good candidate for Ds in 2014, IIRC. IMO, this race is Leans R until proven otherwise. I don't see Walker losing unless it's an absolute Democratic wave year.

Nah, everyone thought she was awful.
22  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Cabinet confirmation hearings **live commentary thread** on: January 12, 2017, 04:53:54 pm
It's hilarious that so many of you think Sessions is going to work in a white robe and hood.  Lunacy.

Don't be silly, he already tried to trade it for a black robe and gavel during the Reagan years.
23  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) (Turn Closed) on: January 12, 2017, 04:47:46 pm
I'd like us to end this turn tomorrow so we can move on, so please send your remaining orders as soon as possible. I think four players still need to send those (three of them who are quite important to end the turn)

On the good news side, as soon as I close the turn I'll post POV's! Anywhere from 2 to 3, one of which is already finished (and it's one I had a lot of fun writing)

Oh dear...
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Cabinet confirmation hearings **live commentary thread** on: January 12, 2017, 02:41:13 pm
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/819608462053228546

Quote
After hearing, @SenSherrodBrown says he's considering supporting Ben Carson's nomination to lead HUD.


I'll believe it if/when it happens
25  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / George R. R. Martin thinks The Winds of Winter will be out this year on: January 12, 2017, 12:26:44 am
http://watchersonthewall.com/george-r-r-martin-thinks-winds-winter-will-year/
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