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1  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: WikiLeaks DNC emails megathread on: Today at 10:55:46 am
At this point anybody who is involved in any political campaign who uses e-mail or cell phones should assume he is listened to by the entire world. I would provide e-mail training to every campaign employee before s/he is hired.
2  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: BREAKING: Major terror attack/shooting in Munich on: July 23, 2016, 12:00:24 pm
buddy, if virulent xenophobes like tender and hifly are telling you to chill, you might be going a bit far

Roll Eyes

You object to the characterisation?
3  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 23, 2016, 11:57:36 am
A Pope Francis Catholic eww. I'm not the largest fan of the pope's standing on issues though I still respect his authority.

Well, you can always create a new church and make yourself a pope Smiley Ample precedent for that Smiley
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:31:45 pm
No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.

Elizabeth Warren should vote for Trump? Bernie Sanders should vote for Trump? Russ Feingold should vote for Trump? There is nothing Progressive about giving over power to corporations, which is what the TPP would do opposition to free trade does.

Corrected.

Explain?

Very easy. Free trade is what creates competition. Lack of competition is creating superprofits, which go to corporations (it also, of course, reduces output, hurting consumers further, but that is a separate matter). By opposing trade you play into the hands of monopoly owners, pure and simple.
5  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:27:20 pm
So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee Smiley

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick? 

Kaine and Pence are both heretics...

You might be disagreeing with the Pope here.
6  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:20:02 pm
No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.

I couldn't agree more, ag. Smiley

Yeah, I really want all horrible people to concentrate in one party I could comfortably hate then.
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:19:21 pm
No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.

Elizabeth Warren should vote for Trump? Bernie Sanders should vote for Trump? Russ Feingold should vote for Trump? There is nothing Progressive about giving over power to corporations, which is what the TPP would do opposition to free trade does.

Corrected.
8  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:10:41 pm
No one cares about the TPP.

I listen to a popular, progressive, and union friendly talk radio show in the Madison, WI area (with a big enough signal to go into Northern Illinois and Eastern Iowa) and anti-TPP and anti-free trade is the main issue on almost every show. The issue resonates with people.

People it resonates with should vote Trump.
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:09:54 pm
The campaign's internal polling for Virginia must have been dire.

Trump's internal polling for Indiana must have been dire. Obama's internal polling for Delaware must have been dire. Bush's internal polling for Wyoming must have been dire.

Given everything you know about Hillary, her convictions, her record and her personality: would she really have chosen an old white male centrist from the South as her running mate unless she absolutely had to?

Yes, of course. It would seem to be an obvious preference for her. Or are you talking about some other Hillary?

BTW, years ago she has already chosen a white southerner as her running mate, and has stuck to that choice despite everything.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 08:08:40 pm
The best thing about Kaine is that he supports TPP.

That's good. Hopefully we can officially establish that Democrat = free trade and Republican = protectionism once and for all.

Would be great!
11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 07:58:09 pm
So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee Smiley

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Trump and Hillary are both abominations to them, I would imagine.  But if they were to weigh between whether Mike Pence or Tim Kaine is a better representative for them, whom do you think they would pick?  

Tough on a good altar boy, ain't it?
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 07:56:21 pm
So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee Smiley

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.
This isn't about conservative Catholics. It's about blue collar and middle class Catholics in the Midwest that are alienated by Trump and have voted Democratic before.

Things get a bit exciting if you look at the Kaine vs. Pence race from this standpoint, don't they?
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 07:54:05 pm
So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee Smiley

Conservative Catholics aren't going to vote for Hillary, period.

Most of them aren't. But they might not be very enthusiastic about the other ticket either. Especially given that Pence is an outright traitor. And if I were interviewing a conservative Catholic politician, I would sure make him do some squirming Smiley
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 07:46:43 pm
So, with a Catholic VP candidate on the Dem ticket and the Pope not being very enthusiastic about Trump, it would be interesting to see how excited conservative Catholics will be about the Republican nominee Smiley
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Opinion of the Clinton/Kaine ticket? on: July 22, 2016, 07:17:36 pm
Great ticket!
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton picks Kaine for veep on: July 22, 2016, 07:16:23 pm
Great pick! Solid judgement.
17  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton VP news LATEST: Podesta now calling the losers to tell them its not them on: July 22, 2016, 07:10:06 pm
Great!
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Jon Stewart Has a Message for Trump Supporters on: July 22, 2016, 07:06:21 pm
Statementa like those aren't going to change any votes. The people who are voting for Trump are strongly influenced by emotion and the tendency to believe they and their beliefs are being attack. Quelling those fears will be more successful than outright anger.

This is not a call to Trump people. This is a call to the rest: take your country back! Or, rather, don't get it stolen from you! Vote!
19  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton VP news LATEST: Podesta now calling the losers to tell them its not them on: July 22, 2016, 07:05:45 pm
I just realized, Kaine would be the second Catholic VP in a row!
20  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why it should be Elizabeth Warren on: July 22, 2016, 06:48:36 pm
2. In the end, far left does not have many places to go to. At worst, they would vote Stein or stay home. Most of them will vote Clinton anyway. It is the mainline Republicans and centrist independents Clinton has to be appealing to. Warren is as disliked among those as she herself is, or more. Choice of Warren would help those parts of the electorate in justifying their vote for Trump. Kaine would not provide that justification.

When it comes to most winning tickets, it's actually the other way around. Jay Heinrichs, a rhetor, actually detailed this before. Winning candidates position themselves in the middle, rather than their VP. That's why they choose a running mate with more extreme opinions of their own, to energize all factions of the base.

It's what you saw with Nixon and Agnew, Clinton and Gore, Bush and Cheney and Obama and Biden.

It does not normally happen that a big chunk of what should be the electorate of the other party is so uncomfortable of their nominee. Clinton has difficulty appealing to a moderate Republican because of her history. But Warren simply has no chance there: she is, in almost every other sense, worse for this electorate than Clinton herself. Clinton needs somebody who can help her highlight the "normalcy of her ticket." Not everybody wants a revolution, you know.
21  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Jeb Bush to Endorse Gary Johnson Next Week? on: July 22, 2016, 06:14:17 pm
A vote for Johnson is only a half vote against Trump, while a vote for Hillary is a full vote against Trump.

Bullsh**t.  A vote for Johnson is a vote for Johnson.  I probably won't vote for Johnson, but I certainly won't vote for Clinton or for Trump, and you may not count my opposition to Trump or to Clinton as half of anything.  It is full-on, raging opposition, just as those who will vote for Johnson fully oppose Trump and fully oppose Clinton.

Anyway, I don't care whether any of the Bushes endorses Johnson, but I'm glad to know that they're not supporting Trump.  Fully and completely.



Kinda surprised you aren't for Johnson. A pot-smoking, drug legalization favoring libertarian Republican seems like your type. ;-)

It is not a matter of who is whose type. The choice is between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Nobody else has a chance.
22  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why it should be Elizabeth Warren on: July 22, 2016, 06:01:08 pm
Thoughts?

What's the Kaine supporter or Vilsack supporter response?

1. Being VP is not about being a "governing partner". It is, largely, about not interfeering and, on occasion, doing whatever you are told to do.

2. In the end, far left does not have many places to go to. At worst, they would vote Stein or stay home. Most of them will vote Clinton anyway. It is the mainline Republicans and centrist independents Clinton has to be appealing to. Warren is as disliked among those as she herself is, or more. Choice of Warren would help those parts of the electorate in justifying their vote for Trump. Kaine would not provide that justification.

3. Kaine would be very useful appealing to the Hispanic vote. Yes, of course, that vote is already energized, but there is nothing like a Spanish speaker to really bring it out.

4. If, per chance, Clinton needed a "governing partner", I am sure she would much rather have somebody as experienced as Kaine than a Warren.

5. Virginia is a swing state. Massachussetts is not. Kaine is a southerner.

6. Warren can be easily linked to the "university elites" - playing exactly into Trump's narrative. In fact, long before this election I have heard this argument made by potential Trump voters about Warren: she is "one of them", "she is an insider", etc.

7. If she is the VP, her seat goes Republican for the early stage of the administration: right when most things could be done. If that results in a 49:51 Senate, that would not be good.

8. Even if you care about her having an impact on the administration, she would have a lot more impact from the Senate (or from the cabinet) than she can possibly have as VP.

I could continue.
23  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Male escorts in Cleveland have been making bank this week on: July 22, 2016, 05:49:41 pm
Are they delegates? Being a prostitute (of an arbitrary gender) seems to be a part of that job description.
24  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Republican National Convention **live commentary thread** on: July 20, 2016, 10:32:55 pm


Is that allowed in Indiana?
25  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Republican National Convention **live commentary thread** on: July 20, 2016, 10:25:36 pm

Yeah, got it figured out myself. I have a soft spot for Orthodox jurisdictional issues Smiley
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