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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 23, 2014, 08:08:12 pm
I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?

I have argued that the recovery industry in the US is basically an insurance and court-system fueled snake oil gravy train, so, yes.

Yes, but is that a bad thing?
2  General Politics / Book Reviews and Discussion / Re: What Book Are You Currently Reading? on: July 23, 2014, 07:38:15 pm
I still think the USSR should have made constructivism, instead of socialist 'realism', its official art style... just think of the possibilities, never mind its effect on Communism's low aesthetic reputation.
3  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 23, 2014, 12:04:39 pm
I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.

can't "campaigning to have a diagnosed medical condition" have a lot to do with keeping the insurance money flowing, especially in the US?  I know the medicalization of addiction has been a huge boon to the multibillion dollar addiction/recovery industry, and even confers certain privileges on those diagnosed with addiction (you can't be fired for having the disease of addiction, etc).

Yes, but is this really a problem?
4  General Discussion / History / Re: Talk to Gully about matters to do with culture, history, 'theory', etc on: July 22, 2014, 12:47:17 pm
What is the legitimate role of evolutionary psychology?

I'll answer this fully later but does this refer to the concept of evolutionary psychology or the academic discipline as created by Leeda Cosmides and John Tooby?
5  General Discussion / History / Re: Talk to Gully about matters to do with culture, history, 'theory', etc on: July 22, 2014, 06:39:09 am
How much of an effect do you think WWII had in speeding up or slowing down decolonization? While it is commonly noted that the destruction seriously weakend Europe, the continent was richer, even porportionally, in the 1960s than it was in the 1930s, so there had to be something more than simple power-politics to explain the change in colonial attitudes.

Pass. Troll.
6  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Long time, no see. on: July 21, 2014, 05:09:28 pm
Welcome back Carl. I hope you won't be posting any links to child porn sites this time.
7  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 02:34:22 pm


It seems to me that UEFA's number of places is about right (but in the binary, more likely slightly under-, rather than over-represented).


Actually I would agree with this.

I just don't see how UEFA should have 17 places when quite a few of its sides did rather badly. In both 2010 and 2014 only 6/13 have qualified from the group stages and has included some awful rubbish at the same level: Russia, Slovenia, France... Of course, this isn't to say there isn't rubbish from the other confeds.

I still think you're missing my point. Mexico was awful in this qualifier but they still qualified, narrowly getting the play-off spot and winning a play-off against New Zealand. A team of Mexico's calibre performing as poorly as they did this qualifier would have missed it had they been in UEFA. I also feel like you ignored the other points I raised. Tongue

Ah but under your proposal Mexico wouldn't have qualified either. CONCACAF top three was Costa Rica, USA and Honduras.

I don't know what other points I missed. I disagree that the confederations should be made equally difficult to qualify out of because we have no good way of measuring that except at the world cup itself.
8  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Ask Oakvale on: July 21, 2014, 12:38:21 pm
NO SURRENDER!
9  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 08:28:20 am
Holland missed the 2002 world cup, while making the semi of the euros in 2000 and 2004. The reason of course being that competition for spots is so stiff in Europe. I doubt Holland could ever miss qualifying if they played in any other confederation (save maybe CONMEBOL).

Holland missed that world cup because they were awful (and Louis 'genius' Van Gaal was coach then). I remember that because I remember Ireland easily beating them.

I mean on paper perhaps they were better but on paper France should easily have topped their 2002 group with Senegal, Uruguay and Denmark. Instead they got 1 point and 0 goals. (and people complained before the tournament 'Holland should be here instead of Senegal'... there's no way of knowing how these teams comparing without them, you know, playing against each other).
10  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 08:24:54 am
UEFA's group record:
A - Croatia. 3 Points 1-0-2 defeats to Brazil and Mexico, victory over Cameroon
B - Spain. 3 points 1-0-2 defeats to Netherlands and Chile, victory over Australia
   - Netherlands. 9 points 3-0-0 victories over Spain, Australia and Chile
C - Greece. 4 points 1-1-1 Won vs Ivory Coast, Lost vs Colombia, drew vs Japan
D - England. 1 point 0-1-2 Drew vs Costa Rica, Lost vs Italy, Uruguay
   - Italy. 3 points 1-0-2 Won vs England, Lost vs Costa Rica, Uruguay
E - France. 7 points 2-1-0 Won vs Switzerland, Honduras, Drew vs Ecuador
     Switzerland. 6 points 2-0-1 Won vs Ecuador, Honduras; Lost vs France
F - Bosnia. 3 points 1-0-2 Won vs Iran; Lost vs Argentina, Nigeria
G - Germany. 7 points 2-1-0 Won vs Portugal, USA; Drew vs Ghana
   - Portugal, 4 points 1-1-1 Won vs Ghana, Drew vs USA, Lost vs Germany
H - Belgium. 9 points 3-0-0 Won vs Algeria, Russia, South Korea
     Russia. 2 points 0-2-1 Drew vs South Korea, Algeria; Lost vs Belgium

UEFA vs Non-UEFA group record: 13-7-9 (45% win ratio)
11  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 08:14:01 am
Less than half of UEFA's qualifiers have made it through the group stage in the last two world cups  (6/13 both times). The days in which the likes of Denmark can automatically be thought of as better to the US or South Korea are well over.

Yes to the US....but I think Iceland would have beaten South Korea this year...

Russia didn't... and Russia won their qualifying group, ahead of Portugal.

Well, Russia also drew Algeria.

But then again, we did too after 90 minutes. Smiley

Yes but my point is that Russia were a) awful and b) managed to quality out of UEFA. I didn't make much claims about South Korea who were also pretty bad but they drew with Russia and barely lost to Belgium so much for UEFA dominance...

There isn't really an argument to claim that UEFA is underrepresented at the world cup now. Anyway, in all likelihood they will have 14 teams next time.
12  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 08:10:31 am
Less than half of UEFA's qualifiers have made it through the group stage in the last two world cups  (6/13 both times). The days in which the likes of Denmark can automatically be thought of as better to the US or South Korea are well over.

Yes to the US....but I think Iceland would have beaten South Korea this year...

Russia didn't... and Russia won their qualifying group, ahead of Portugal.
13  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 21, 2014, 08:08:52 am
Less than half of UEFA's qualifiers have made it through the group stage in the last two world cups  (6/13 both times). The days in which the likes of Denmark can automatically be thought of as better to the US or South Korea are well over.
14  General Discussion / History / Re: Talk to Gully about matters to do with culture, history, 'theory', etc on: July 20, 2014, 05:01:36 pm
Thanks on both responses. In what is somewhat related, here's an interesting propaganda poster from fascist Portugal.



Portugal is not a Small Country is what it says fyi
15  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 04:57:42 pm
When I was in elementary school, our school hosted a "handicapped" program that gave the least disabled autistic students a chance to receive facilitated education within the public school system. During the school year there were about five or so in the program.

Those autistic students usually had poor motor control (I recall the spontaneous vomiting vividly), had learning disabilities, and lacked speech ability. OTOH, these kids (used loosely, since they were easily over elementary school age and most likely adolescents) could relate to other kids emotionally. They remembered who were nice to them (the girls) and who bullied them (the boys), and didn't engage in the stereotyped "autistic" activities with mechanical devices like repeated toilet-flushing, light-switching, etc. I guess that was the reason why they were selected for mainstreaming.

Autism was nothing short of severe disability. Perhaps the definition of autism has changed from the 1980s, because the autism that is being described on this thread reminds me of these kids from my elementary school days in nothing of the kind.

Up until the 1980s basically to be defined as Autistic you had to have an IQ of under 80 ('retarded' or borderline such). Changes in psychiatry since then have made that definition effectively obsolete (although those are still the most severe cases).

The explosion in cases of Autistic Spectrum Disorders didn't happen until 1994 with the publication of DSM-IV.
16  General Discussion / History / Re: Talk to Gully about matters to do with culture, history, 'theory', etc on: July 20, 2014, 03:31:24 pm
Why didn't the Netherlands or Austria acquire any colonies in the Scramble for Africa?

After the Napoleonic Wars the Netherlands focused most of its colonial attention on the Dutch East Indies having effectively lost all but scraps of the Americas, Sri Lanka, Mauritius and the Cape Colony. Indonesia was a very profitable colony and was basically funding the Dutch state for large parts of the 19th Century. Meanwhile the only remaining Dutch colony in Africa was an ignored wreck rendered unprofitable by the slave trade and was eventually sold to the British. Instead of focusing on Africa, the Dutch expanded their domains in Indonesia which was one long succession of wars (Bali didn't fully fall until 1908 for instance) so Africa was deemed a distraction.

As for Austria, with all the problems they had, why would they? They had enough problems taking off adjacent land in Bosnia.
17  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 01:52:01 pm
Obviously, psychiatric conditions are not binary. Everybody is a little depressed sometimes. Everybody has attentions problems sometimes. It's not like HIV, where a person is 100% negative or positive. The issue is not misdiagnosis (a false positive) so much as the entire paradigm for how we think of the problems is flawed.

Unflaw the Paradigm please.
18  General Discussion / History / Re: Talk to Gully about matters to do with culture, history, 'theory', etc on: July 20, 2014, 01:41:34 pm
Well, then, let's start here.
Why was it that the French were more successful in building up partnerships with the native tribes than the British? (Leaving the obvious exception Iroqouis aside)

Sorry not to have yet replied to this and I'll keep my answer reasonably brief.

To understand this you have to understand that by the mid 17th Century and not really due to any government's 'real' intentions two different patterns of settlement had emerged in French and English America. In the former what had happened was closer to what had initially been envisaged - scattered trading postings and garrison settlements exchanging furs, minerals and commodities. The land and its people were frequently hostile to them for sure but it meant that they had to understand and grasp the intricacies of native culture. Also the European inhabitants of these settlements were overwhelming male and especially so in the early decades and so this created greater demand for close - very close in this case - alliances. This though it should be noted, also meant entangling the French administration within various Indian disputes (such as that between the Huron and the Iroquois).

Meanwhile in English America from the Puritans onwards (the Caribbean was different but there were practically no natives there even by 1650) people came in their families, in search of land and economic security, they were not usually traders and entrepreneurs more so than farmers, land speculators and various bourgeois types (the trading element in the northern colonies was usually a financial disaster... Plymouth didn't get close to making back its original investment as had been envisaged). In this environment and society, engagement with the natives was of much less importance and they were, rather, a 'threat' to 'their' property (various legal means were found to make it English land from the very beginning). Competition for land was a defining element of early English colonization as was the shunning of anything 'Indian' except when necessary (even down to growing their own crops despite the environmental unsuitability of some of them vis-a-vis Maize on American soil).

Finally, another factor was religion. In the Americas as a whole, despite the occasional effort, the Catholic countries - and their religious order -invested far more into conversion attempts than the Protestants ones. This was a distinct difference in attitudes which I can go on about in length but don't feel like doing so atm which was that Catholic missionaries tended to support more syncretic approaches towards religion, that is compromising with the local faith and expressing catholic (or quasi-catholic) language and concepts through what would be understood locally. While Protestant missionaries were, in general, much less compromising and wanted to conformity to a particular vision of religion rather than compromise with the population (this is the simple version in both cases). Also Protestant missionaries required that their charges read, while Catholics did not, and this took a lot of time, effort and resources that very few Missionaries had, given that they were rarely if ever supported by government and lacked religious orders. There's no real good Protestant equivalent to the Virgin of Guadelope, for many, many reasons. This reflected some of the cultural attitudes towards American Indians around at that time (although to explain this well would require a whole essay).
19  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 01:00:02 pm
I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition.
I find that quite odd too.  Some of them seem to be proud of it.  I get accepting it, I get finding comfort in knowing why you do the things you do, I don't get wearing it as a badge of honor.

No it doesn't, it's only a label. Nobody understands that.
20  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread on: July 20, 2014, 12:59:27 pm
Snowstalker next time I'm on the IRC and you're there I'm banning you on sight.

[/banboy]
21  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 12:58:23 pm
Absolutely.

I would know. I was one of those "misdiagnoses" and it wound up giving me self confidence issues that I never really got over. To this day I still can't tell if anyone in high school actually liked me or was just playing the "pity the special ed kid" game like I was some sort of zoo animal.

I had that... except they didn't know about my diagnosis (I got no special education... inside School anyway).
22  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 12:57:42 pm
There's a definite overdiagnosis of male autism...

That's what I was thinking as well. The stats I found has the rate at 1 in 42 for males and 1 in 189 for females. I can believe the female rate, but it's the male rate that seems wildly high. No one seems to have a legitimate medical reason as to why the rate has been climbing so much in recent years (and I don't want to hear anything about the debunked and absurdly stupid notion that the cause is vaccines).

How do you know they aren't just, you know, better at finding cases*? Why is 1 in 42 necessarily absurd? More people are afraid of Spiders (which is very common, especially in Women) yet in my part of the world at least, Spiders are totally harmless annoyances.

(*- Btw, this isn't what I necessarily believe).

Quote
As already mentioned, it is indeed the new ADHD. My dad even admitted that the way he was in elementary school would have almost assuredly been diagnosed as such. I think many diagnosed cases of that are just boredom.

There is very likely a genetic element to any autistic spectrum disorder. And you post on Atlas forum, so you know...
23  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 12:55:00 pm
Absolutely. It basically means "socially awkward" at this point. As someone who has a family member who is very severely autistic, it's very insulting when I see kids with some odd quirks thrown under the same umbrella.

So basically you are arguing that 'I don't think weird people are weird enough to be considered weird because they are not like one member of my friend'? I mean, fair enough, if you treat a condition like autism as a enclosed box or list that everyone needs to meet in order to be diagnosed despite the clear damaging silliness of such a strategy.

Obviously though special needs money should go where it needs to, and autism, whether aspergers or low-functioning or anything in between, is the childhood condition de jour at the moment so....

I'll add here, what's interesting about Aspergers was the social identification that has come with the condition so much so that people actually campaigned to maintain themselves as diagnosed as having a mental condition. A strange charge against a document that was originally designed to keep psychiatry together and more open and transparent (LOL) after the homosexuality wars of the 1970s (it was a 'mental condition' once).
24  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Overdiagnosis of autism on: July 20, 2014, 12:48:33 pm
As a teacher, I have noticed in recent years that more and more students have IEPs for Aspergers syndrome, which is a variant for autism.  Given the change in medical classifications, Aspergers no longer exists and is now just classified as autism.

That's the reclassification as done by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder 5 (better known as DSM5), which was published two years ago and whose alterations, not just in regards to Aspergers, have been... controversial, even by the standards of the DSM, a notoriously controversial book. The whole affair about its publication in the US led to the National Institute of Mental Health to reject the document and place its own guidelines for mental health treatment. I don't know if Aspergers is included in the latter* but it would surprise me if it weren't. That's right, for the past year at least US health institutions can and do recognize two different taxonomies of mental illness. Read into that what you will.

(* - the main division was between, as always, purely behavioral diagnosis a la the DSM or supposedly biochemical ones... but very little of those exist anyway as well as the other hoary perennial of discreet categories of mental illness versus approaches that see mental 'issues' in terms of spectrums)

Quote
When I was a student in high school 15 years ago, only students who never talked, had bladder control problems, and could not function in society received an autism diagnosis.  Now, it seems like it is being given out to any young child with an intense interest and social awkwardness.

But that doesn't answer which is the correct diagnosis?. I assume you aren't arguing "X is really much worse than Y therefore Y doesn't really exist (or worse, X doesn't exist because Y doesn't either)"?

Being diagnosed with a 'mental condition' which includes Aspergers in certain cases in Ireland alters one's opportunity in access to healthcare, education, insurance and employment among other things. Yet both my experience and statistics tell me that is somewhat necessary for a lot of people given the complications that arise, people diagnosed with Autistic spectrum disorders are more likely to suffer from depression, anxiety, unemployment, and homelessness among other things.

Note that btw, I hold this to be an entirely separate issue from whether Autism 'exists' or not. As if that's really important.

Quote
Unfortunately, I am required to give extra time for tests and give easier exams for these students.  Many of them would do just fine without an IEP.  If not, it would be due to their laziness rather than lack of ability.

Well, that's an issue of the educational establishment. Not to mention parents.

Quote
Personally, I am not a big fan of psychiatrists in general and think that they do more harm than good.  I am curious what the opinion of the forum is about this topic.

Distrusting psychiatrists is a good idea but I think you have to an eliminative materialist on the issue of 'folk psychology' (what is laziness anyway?), well perhaps not a strict materialist but certainly an eliminativist.

Also Al is correct
There's a definite overdiagnosis of male autism...
25  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 19, 2014, 07:53:40 pm
The AFC's record in 2014 was 0-3-9 and those 3 draws included two goalless games which were among the very worst games in the tournament and a game that was heading that way until a horrible goalie mistake gave the Koreans a goal. Australia, admittedly, were unlucky with their group but the other three, those that got 1 point, were in groups in the weaker groups.
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