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8926  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Guess who the previous poster would've voted for in last 5 elections on: October 14, 2007, 02:16:33 pm
BRTD would vote democratic all five times like the party loyalist he is.
8927  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which is worse? on: October 14, 2007, 02:13:20 pm
Quote
Earlier you attacked the strip clubs owners' influence on the Minneapolis City Council, but anyway, ignore that part and instead focus on the things like banning hard liquor from advertising and internet gambling. Which Ralph Nader supports. However politicians who take massive contributions from the alcohol, banking and gambling industries that oppose those policies you seem to consider worse.

Well Personally if I had my way I would do away with all advertising.. but that's a secondary issue too.

What part of "I don't believe in a corrupt process, even if this corruption leads to things I may support (but then again it often doesn't)" don't you understand?
8928  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What should the driving age be? on: October 14, 2007, 02:11:15 pm
whatever age you can pass a road test.

Going by the Irish Average I suspect that would be around 35.

But this is not the time for anti-Jack Lynch rant.

So as far as thread goes...

Whatever age (as long as over 12) you can constitently pass a road test. Perhaps someone should be tested once every six months for the first two years. And licenses revoked if anyone is caught speeding\drink driving\etc during this time.

Why 12? If an eleven year old can pass the test, why shouldn't he or she be able to drive?

I was mainly thinking of "required tallness to see properly" issue.
8929  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Is banning arranged marriages an example of Authoritian goverment? on: October 14, 2007, 12:57:29 pm

Yes but this thread is about *ahem* "libertarianism".

(of course here is where I should quote Einstein.)

Quote
Absolutely.
Why I should I be banned from letting my extended family search for a match for me?
That would be the answer to the question in the thread title.

Clearly this what Mr and Mrs Trondheim were thinking about when you were five. Going to trade you off to the Daughter of the Mistress of Mr. Trondheim's boss in exchange for five rupees, when you turned 12. Iirc it was the rage at the time.

Quote
As to the question in the post, ah, that's a tougher one. Yes, I would agree that a state-enforced marriage age is not really consistent with the ancap vision. I would also agree that it's a necessity (though the age it should be at is, of course, subject to debate).

Not just ancap (who here is only Bono) but some of the more *ahem* "libertarian" members of the board. Like the one who thinks the federal goverment should hold mandatory searches of all mosques.

Also if you really want to stretch the *ahem* "libertarian" arguement than the answer is obviously yes; as Children are the private property of the parents if they cannot fend for themselves in the free market. And to take the Noo-liberal arguement; then yes is also the answer as to do otherwise serves the hegemonic culture.

But all this shows is how much ideologies; especially fringe ideologies like Ancapism are really just cultural products. And are somewhat difficult to implement universally.
8930  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How often do you (or would you) vote for the "other" party? on: October 14, 2007, 12:48:32 pm
Well I don't have an "opposite" party as I don't have a "party" to begin with.

But in Ireland:
Fianna Fail - Never
Fine Gael - Almost Never; Though I don't think too badly of one of my Local FG TDs. But anywhere outside of certain constituencies - especially in areas with horrible Big Farmer Anglo-tory types; never.
Labour - Occasionally but unlikely.
Greens - In the Past yes, since May 2007 never, never again.
Progressive Democrats - Never. At least in no election held since I was born.
Sinn Fein - Never, ever, ever.
Socialist Party - Never

See how happy I am with the Status Quo? Tongue
8931  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Australia 2007 on: October 14, 2007, 12:43:24 pm
According to an election calculator (yes, one exists!) the most recent poll that gave Labor 59% Coalition 41% would suggest:

Labor 119
Coalition 31

I can't begin to tell you how unlikely that result is. I know - I found the calc about a month ago.

But that's pretty much what the polls have been saying since forever from what I've followed. While the Lib-Nat may have a tradition of gaining; do they also have a tradition of being more 10 points down in the polls?
8932  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Voting age on: October 14, 2007, 12:41:43 pm
When did you become a Anarcho-Syndalicist Tweed?

Anyway I know you are not an elitist; just saying that it's a horribly, horribly elitist idea.

Quote
my main motivation is to give the youth some power in the process, as we are too easily oppressed with no conceivable ramifications.  such as laws against buying cigarette lighters.  or midnight curfews.  or being treated like prisoners in public schools.  the list goes on

That stretchs the word "oppression" quite a bit. But if you tone down the rhetoric I would agree with you..

Quote
to address some of your questions, I'd prefer the test to be standardized by the states (or perhaps the federal government, but that causes problems).

I don't really see how the States goverment is better than the federal system. (If you were to ask my honest opinion I'd say the United States is too big a country and it would be better in the long run if it broke up.. but Imagine the chaos on the forum If I said THAT). The only way you could have a reliable testing system is if they were ran by the schools themselves; If 1) the schools were independent of goverment and 2) non-profit or at least communitarian. But this idea is unworkable because each school (and how many schools are there in the US?) would have it's own test, each with it's own standard difficulty, etc.

Quote
the classism is a valid point, certainly.  I reconcile it with this being temporary, as everyone over 18 would be eligible to vote anyway.  I just prefer some standard of merit being used instead of some arbitrary age keeping the youth (even the intelligent, well-informed youth) as prisoners of the state until they hit some stupid deadline

Fair enough point but still how one defines "informed" and "intelligent" is really up to debate. If history has taught us anything it's how things can be rigged; so say to be "intelligent" you have to claim that homosexuality is disease (to use an extreme example; it's usually more subtle than that.)

Quote
the working class is ed anyway, and will be until they revolt; either, through the ballot box or though violence.  sadly, probably neither.  might as well take one oppressed group (under18) out of the dark, even if it arises fears that another may be more thoroughly raped.

No comment except to say that nowadays it's very difficult to see the "working class" as a single entity; especially obvious when we are talking about the division between Rural and Urban.
8933  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What forrumer would make the best running mate for the preceding poster? on: October 14, 2007, 12:23:46 pm
Bullmoose88
8934  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Al Gore Wins Nobel Peace Prize on: October 14, 2007, 12:06:56 pm
Looking at the list of people who have won the Noble Peace Prize (admittely this is a selective offering):

Woodrow Wilson
Henry Kissinger
Menachem Begin
Mohammed Al-Sadat
Yassar Arafat
Kofi Annan
Jimmy Carter
....

Clearly a list of political hacks, Murderers and madmen while Gore is certainly not any of the previous two (Yet! He may still become president.) it is clear that he belongs. Perhaps we should award two noble peace prizes - one for People who actually strive towards international peace and another for politicians who just pay lip service towards that idea.
8935  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Vocabularies of forum-goers on: October 14, 2007, 11:56:43 am
Thanks Inks. All is forgiven (Though I haven't changed my mind on your politics)

I'm still wondering how I managed to use the word "Taft" 43 times.. well, now 44.

EDIT: Just found out. Damn Election 1912.
8936  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What should the driving age be? on: October 14, 2007, 10:22:12 am
whatever age you can pass a road test.

Going by the Irish Average I suspect that would be around 35.

But this is not the time for anti-Jack Lynch rant.

So as far as thread goes...

Whatever age (as long as over 12) you can constitently pass a road test. Perhaps someone should be tested once every six months for the first two years. And licenses revoked if anyone is caught speeding\drink driving\etc during this time.
8937  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Voting age on: October 14, 2007, 10:18:19 am
would anyone like to offer a rebuttal to my idea?

but I also favor offering a complicated civics exam.  and anyone who can pass it, whether they're 4 or 17, should be eligible to vote.

I would. Who exactly would write this civics exam? The goverment backed school Authority? I would hope not or else it would be children swallowing the gruel they learn in school and make it actually needed for an important aspect of citizenship. Also it would alienate those who don't do well in a civics exam and thus turn them off the political process even more then it would already. In others greater an even greater division between the "informed" (Whatever that is) elite and the "great unwashed". It's a horribly elitist idea..

And that's not to mention that who is more likely to fail a civics test? Some spoilt Paris-Hilton wannabe whose daddy spends buckets load on private education for his "princess" or some black kid from Rural Mississippi whose parents think education is holding him back from doing proper jobs; like menial labour.
8938  General Politics / Political Debate / Is banning arranged marriages an example of Authoritian goverment? on: October 14, 2007, 09:33:36 am
This is mainly for the *ahem* "libertarians".

To take the *ahem* "libertarian" arguement to it's extreme: these *ahem* "libertarians" see the state as the only dominant authority, not cultural and social impluses, not big business, not anything else.. according to them all power in society is dominated by the state (rather than the state being an agent of society) and should the state reduce it's power it will somehow mean greater freedom (whatever that is) for everyone.

So here's a question using this logic, if two parents decided to marry off their 8 year old offspring in exchange for a dowry (as is common in East Asian culture) and that they should marry only when they become older than the age of consent would it be an example of over-extending to ban such practices?

After all, Rothbard seems to view children as property of their parents until they assert their "property rights" (whatever that is). So I suppose the answer is no and that arranged marriages should be legal. No?
8939  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / It's not as if neo-cons haven't focused on the big picture before... on: October 14, 2007, 09:21:56 am
Or then again, Surprise Surprise, maybe not..

Quote

He was the CIA's expert on Pakistan's nuclear secrets, but Rich Barlow was thrown out and disgraced when he blew the whistle on a US cover-up. Now he's to have his day in court. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark report

Rich Barlow idles outside his silver trailer on a remote campsite in Montana - itinerant and unemployed, with only his hunting dogs and a borrowed computer for company. He dips into a pouch of American Spirit tobacco to roll another cigarette. It is hard to imagine that he was once a covert operative at the CIA, the recognised, much lauded expert in the trade in Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD).

He prepared briefs for Dick Cheney, when Cheney was at the Pentagon, for the upper echelons of the CIA and even for the Oval Office. But when he uncovered a political scandal - a conspiracy to enable a rogue nation to get the nuclear bomb - he found himself a marked man.

In the late 80s, in the course of tracking down smugglers of WMD components, Barlow uncovered reams of material that related to Pakistan. It was known the Islamic Republic had been covertly striving to acquire nuclear weapons since India's explosion of a device in 1974 and the prospect terrified the west - especially given the instability of a nation that had had three military coups in less than 30 years . Straddling deep ethnic, religious and political fault-lines, it was also a country regularly rocked by inter-communal violence. "Pakistan was the kind of place where technology could slip out of control," Barlow says.

He soon discovered, however, that senior officials in government were taking quite the opposite view: they were breaking US and international non-proliferation protocols to shelter Pakistan's ambitions and even sell it banned WMD technology. In the closing years of the cold war, Pakistan was considered to have great strategic importance. It provided Washington with a springboard into neighbouring Afghanistan - a route for passing US weapons and cash to the mujahideen, who were battling to oust the Soviet army that had invaded in 1979. Barlow says, "We had to buddy-up to regimes we didn't see eye-to-eye with, but I could not believe we would actually give Pakistan the bomb.

How could any US administration set such short-term gains against the long-term safety of the world?" Next he discovered that the Pentagon was preparing to sell Pakistan jet fighters that could be used to drop a nuclear bomb.

Barlow was relentless in exposing what he saw as US complicity, and in the end he was sacked and smeared as disloyal, mad, a drunk and a philanderer. If he had been listened to, many believe Pakistan might never have got its nuclear bomb; south Asia might not have been pitched into three near-nuclear conflagrations; and the nuclear weapons programmes of Iran, Libya and North Korea - which British and American intelligence now acknowledge were all secretly enabled by Pakistan - would never have got off the ground. "None of this need have happened," Robert Gallucci, special adviser on WMD to both Clinton and George W Bush, told us. "The vanquishing of Barlow and the erasing of his case kicked off a chain of events that led to all the nuclear-tinged stand-offs we face today. Pakistan is the number one threat to the world, and if it all goes off - a nuclear bomb in a US or European city- I'm sure we will find ourselves looking in Pakistan's direction."

US aid to Pakistan tapered off when the Soviet Union withdrew from Afghanistan. Dejected and impoverished, in 1987 Pakistan's ruling military responded by selling its nuclear hardware and know-how for cash, something that would have been obvious to all if the intelligence had been properly analysed. "But the George HW Bush administration was not looking at Pakistan," Barlow says. "It had new crises to deal with in the Persian Gulf where Saddam Hussein had invaded Kuwait."

As the first Gulf war came to an end with no regime change in Iraq, a group of neoconservatives led by Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, Lewis "Scooter" Libby and Donald Rumsfeld were already lobbying to finish what that campaign had started and dislodge Saddam. Even as the CIA amassed evidence showing that Pakistan, a state that sponsored Islamist terrorism and made its money by selling proscribed WMD technology, was the number one threat, they earmarked Iraq as the chief target.

When these neocons came to power in 2001, under President George W Bush, Pakistan was indemnified again, this time in return for signing up to the "war on terror". Condoleezza Rice backed the line, as did Rumsfeld, too. Pakistan, although suspected by all of them to be at the epicentre of global instability, was hailed as a friend. All energies were devoted to building up the case against Iraq.

It is only now, amid the recriminations about the war in Iraq and reassessments of where the real danger lies, that Barlow - the despised bringer of bad news about Pakistan - is finally to get a hearing. More than 20 years after this saga began, his case, filed on Capitol Hill, is coming to court later this month. His lawyers are seeking millions of dollars in compensation for Barlow as well as the reinstatement of his $80,000 a year government pension. Evidence will highlight what happened when ideologues took control of intelligence in three separate US administrations - those of Reagan, and of the two Bushes - and how a CIA analyst who would not give up his pursuit for the truth became a fall guy.
....

Article continues onwards; but too big to quote all of. But really should be read...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2188777,00.html
8940  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Name the ideology of the preceding poster... on: October 14, 2007, 08:40:34 am
Classical liberal. (In the real sense of the word; not the way *ahem* "libertarians" abuse it.)
8941  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: David Duke is supporting Ron Paul on: October 14, 2007, 08:37:44 am
You can't say Ron Paul is a fascist when he thinks the government should have less power. A fascist wants centralization of state and decision-making into his (or her) person.

I never said he was. (Though there are quite a couple of similarties between *ahem* "libertarianism" in the US and fascism, more than first meets the eye.)

But alot of his supporters are, like well.. David Duke.
8942  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Do you consider yourself anti-communist and/or anti-fascist? on: October 14, 2007, 08:33:15 am
Quote
What does that have to do with the religious right?

Everything; the power of the Religious right stems from a reaction against the 60s counterculture as it moved into the 70s managed to alienate more and more people from it... as it was becoming yet another manufactured media conciousness. You are an example of that. (Note how Falwell et al didn't really appear until the 70s. Before that there was the likes of Billy Graham, which isn't quite the same.)

Quote
I will NEVER move to the suburbs, and I know lots of people over 30 in Minneapolis, so it's hardly inevetible.

All those hippies said that too.
8943  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which is worse? on: October 14, 2007, 08:30:28 am
EDIT: Having re-read the poll I now understand your point. An alcohol corporation does not wish just to liberalize laws in relation to alcohol. It wants to change the law to benefit itself; not the industry - if anything if it can it wants to destroy it's competitors. Anheuser-Busch used it's political influence to become one of the few beers allowed on US army bases. And how is a small independent business meant to keep up with that.

Yes, but you also think it's appalling that strip club owners' donations to Minneapolis City Council campaigns result in the City Council making pro-strip club zoning decisions. And no doubt you would also be appalled by the banking industry's campaign to remove all restrictions on internet gambling.

Oh, and Define "policies" anyway?

Things like banning the advertising of hard liquor on TV, banning internet gambling, and putting in oppressive zoning restrictions against strip clubs.

What did anything I say have to do with Strip clubs?

(Which is btw shows your hypocrisy in called for relaxed zoning laws while bashing on suburbia all the time)

I agree with Gabu btw.
8944  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Vocabularies of forum-goers on: October 14, 2007, 08:27:56 am
This Applet doesn't work for me.. so Inks you know what to do.
8945  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Rugby World Cup 2007 on: October 14, 2007, 08:25:41 am
Official proof that Jonnie has sold his soul to the devil..
8946  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Mental illness and politics on: October 12, 2007, 12:57:10 pm
As anyone who ever read Fear and Loathing on the Campaign trail '72 would know, long term Senator and former VP candidate Ed Muskie was a long term sufferer from ''clinical depression'' yet he managed to hide it effectively from everyone and the media never called him out it (but they did in regards to Tom Eagleton, McGovern's original VP.. which sank his campaign. And the media is liberal.)

That's at least two high ranking depressants; so there must be as many as there are closeted gays in congress.

8947  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which is worse? on: October 12, 2007, 11:56:44 am
And I'm talking about policies toward alcohol, gambling, strip clubs, pornography, food, etc. here, not the type of Libertarian nuttery they mean when they talk about this sort of thing.

The problems related to Gambling, Alcohol, etc are societal in origin anyway. Perhaps I'm naive but I'm of the opinion that balanced people do well, 'balanced' things like not constantly binge drinking and if there are alot of ''unbalanced'' people then there is must be something wrong with the social world around them at heart (to keep it simple). Not the law; which is a cultural construction anyway. Which is why prohibition didn't work (and never will)

EDIT: Having re-read the poll I now understand your point. An alcohol corporation does not wish just to liberalize laws in relation to alcohol. It wants to change the law to benefit itself; not the industry - if anything if it can it wants to destroy it's competitors. Anheuser-Busch used it's political influence to become one of the few beers allowed on US army bases. And how is a small independent business meant to keep up with that.

Oh, and Define "policies" anyway?
8948  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Armenian Genocide Bill on: October 12, 2007, 11:41:01 am
Well this is bad timing and I believe the house would have better things to discuss then perhaps playing in Turkey's hands in regards to the Kurdish situation. I didn't realize there was such a strong Armenian lobby.

In saying that the idea behind the bill is sound; and proves once again how countries are determined to manipulate history and their own "narrative" for purposes that suit the present goverment of that nation. (Does anyone really know how much distortions of truths are in your average School History textbook?)
8949  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Do you consider yourself anti-communist and/or anti-fascist? on: October 12, 2007, 11:36:39 am

The "anti-fascist" movement of today's youth culture is a disgusting joke, btw.

Strongly, Strongly Agree. But otherwise strongly Anti-Authoritian; so obviously opposed to Fascism and Marxist-Leninism and alot of schools of Anarcho-Syndalism. So I guess both somewhat.

But you don't oppose authoritarians like Ralph Nader and James Dobson...

I absolutely oppose Authoritarianism as a political force, yes, that does not mean I oppose people expressing opinions like Nader or Dobson; or running for office like Nader.

You do realize that people like you are one of the reasons of the rise of the Religious right in America? You are the total "liberal" student cliche who fawns over his vices and condemns those he doesn't (Cigarette anyone?) - add about 10 years on your life, a marriage to "a nice girl" and a move to suburbia and we have the perfect Republican.
8950  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: John Kerry vs the preceding poster... on: October 12, 2007, 10:05:33 am
The one that isn't a two-faced elitist out of touch with reality and with absolute no conception of 'vision' whatsoever and who isn't a complete and utter party and special interest hack.

So the guy above me, whoever that is.
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