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8926  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Ron Paul Winning Iowa? on: December 11, 2007, 11:49:15 am
While it won't alone I don't think I would be alone in thinking that IF it did happen I would want to avoid the Internet for an entire year.
8927  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: BNP civil war? on: December 11, 2007, 11:46:40 am
There are rumours going round that the first serious civil war inside the BNP for quite a while has started. Must stress "rumours".

Over what exactly? Who to hate more: Blacks or Asians? Whether or not the Daily mail is a liberal rag? What?
8928  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 11, 2007, 10:04:32 am
The funny thing I have to say about Enda (or Indah if you prefer) is that he strikes as quite possibly the least ambitious man ever to have lived; he knows the opposition leader role well having seen it done so perfectly (ie. with utter failure) having been a member of the FG frontbench for so long and having his father also in that position yet unlike those other hallowed failures than he succeeded due to not being Gay Mitchell, he brings absolutely nothing to the whole "Dail" thing at all.

He almost makes you wish for the second coming of Michael Noonan.
8929  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: A very cool political ideology test on: December 11, 2007, 07:36:06 am
Hugely problematic test.

The first question for example: Major industries and utilities should be owned by the government OR by workers' co-operatives, not by private individuals.

Define "Major industries or Utilities"? Also what if you against one option but not the other, chose no preference.

The Second and third Question: The how is really, really important here. Again NP.

From the questions I did answer I got:
#1: Social Liberal
#2: Clintonite Neo-liberal
#3: American Liberal
#4: Liberal
#5: Social Democratic
....
#14: Soviet Communist
#15: Christian Socialist
#16: National Socialist
#17: Revolutionary conservative
#18: Fascist

Well that last bit looks a bit right.
8930  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: LBJ with long hair picture on: December 11, 2007, 07:29:29 am
Hahaha...

"Anyone of my generation who wasn't dropout or a communist isn't worth a damn" - LBJ
8931  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: What's the last movie you've seen? on: December 11, 2007, 07:25:54 am
Last Weekend I saw:

Cidade de Deus (City of God)
and
American Gangster

Both were okay. I suppose. Not quite living up to the hype; but adequate none the less.
8932  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Christmas Shopping on: December 11, 2007, 07:22:39 am
Uhm, I don't even know what to ask for myself.

^^^^^^

I never did.

Actually I hate this time of year; unlike most people I tend think "Ahh, it's cold outside" as opposed to "OMG CHRISTMAS!111".
8933  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: me vs. Gully Foyle (NOT A WHO WOULD WIN THE ELECTION POLL) on: December 11, 2007, 07:21:24 am
Me.

I would be the first person in history to die from frustration.
8934  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: N.J. to vote on abolishing death penalty on: December 11, 2007, 07:18:24 am
Excellent for NJ.

Agreed.  Glad to see that New Jersey will be a pro-life state.
8935  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 10, 2007, 03:44:17 pm
As part of the series of reasons as to why I feel Enda Kenny would be a travesty as Taoiseach is his obsession with the idea of random drug testing.

In Leader's Questions last week, he suggested random drug testing for students; today FG put out a press release calling for random drug testing for nightclub patrons:
"Gardaí should mount random searches of customers outside known nightclubs and pubs in order to root out cocaine use."

There's times when I think he's not much better than the political equivalent of Steve Staunton.

Indeed. Though really he is a small town lawyer living in a bubble that he believes to be The West wing but with added Michael Ring.

8936  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 10, 2007, 03:17:52 pm
It will be announced tomorrow that Cllr. Mary Mitchell O’Connor (PD; Dún Laoighaire Rathdown County Council) will defect to Fine Gael. Hardly earth shattering, but nonetheless adds to the death is at hand theories re: the Progressive Democrats.

The defection will bring the total number of PD County Councillors down to 19 (only 4 in Dublin).

Yay! Drlcoco related stuff. Actually hard to believe that she is\was the last PD on the council; really the signs were there from the local elections onwards.

Now makes Fianna Fail's life in opposition more difficult. Not that I have a particular fondness for our local council.

New Dún Laoighaire - Rathdown Council Composition:
FG 10; FF 7; Lab 6; Green 4; Ind 1

I presume that's been a solid FG/Lab coalition since the election.

Aye. Aye. Though that really should be FG-led council with labour dragging up the rear.
8937  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 10, 2007, 02:54:58 pm
It will be announced tomorrow that Cllr. Mary Mitchell O’Connor (PD; Dún Laoighaire Rathdown County Council) will defect to Fine Gael. Hardly earth shattering, but nonetheless adds to the death is at hand theories re: the Progressive Democrats.

The defection will bring the total number of PD County Councillors down to 19 (only 4 in Dublin).

Yay! Drlcoco related stuff. Actually hard to believe that she is\was the last PD on the council; really the signs were there from the local elections onwards.

Now makes Fianna Fail's life in opposition more difficult. Not that I have a particular fondness for our local council.

8938  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Do Ron Paul supporters remind you of communists? on: December 10, 2007, 02:42:56 pm
Quote
What's the inherent problems in such a belief? The larger government is, the less it does and the less effective it becomes. The Department of Homeland Security (a needless extra level of bureaucracy) after Hurricane Katrina represents that point. Time after time that has been shown true.

You are cherry picking facts to suit your arguement; so actually here the thread should really be called "Are Ron Paul supporters the political equilavalents of creationists, like communists"?

What you have done is start off with a conclusion:
The Government is bad

Then found specific examples which back up your hypothesis without looking at every angle
Hurricane Katrina, The DoHS.. Interestingly in your case all stuff which has happened under Bush's watch.

Then came to your analysis from the above:
OMG TEH GOVERNMENT IS BAD!!111
...

Which is o\c the complete opposite of logical thinking, which I suppose is what we should be looking for in political debate. Similiar to the creationists, take a preconceived answer then try to discover things which to fit into that answer thereby "proving it".

Quote
Then you have organizations that serve a purpose for which there is nothing to do. Like the Department of Education. The Department of Education does not educate anyone. It never has and it never will. All education is under the jurisdiction of state governments. So what does all that money for the Department of "Education" do if it does not educate anyone? Just pay bureaucrats pretty well?

Well I against State Education in general but your analysis here is flawed (you claim like most libertarians you want to take government out of major social appartus to give them to "the people" - sounds like communism to me. Though except o\c the people often means "Business" in the former case and "the politburo" in the latter case.) by focusing on what the department of Education has done not what it could do.

The idea behind most modern political ideologies (none of which I class myself as being a card carrying member of) is that use the social appartus of government to improve what you see the flaws of society. Here you are saying the Dept. of Education should be abolished because the people running it suck. Which isn't quite the same thing.
8939  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What poster has moved furthest left and right since coming here? on: December 10, 2007, 02:29:40 pm
Opebo isn't liberal I agree.

As for this thread, who cares really?

(I know expect the next two pages to be entirely about me for some reason. Yay!)
8940  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Christopher Hitchens on: December 10, 2007, 02:25:09 pm
Considering that Mussolini was an atheist, no he wasn't a personification of the religious right.

His relative in the Italian government (granddaughter?) has policies which are pretty much identical to the Christian right.

Yes Alessandro Mussolini is his granddaughter.

Btw, traditionally the whole ideological backing for what is known as "conservative" social attitudes (sex inside marriage, no abortion, etc) only really used religion as a carboard backdrop (usually) - in the Middle ages most European countries were much liberal about "sex issues" than they would ever be until the 70s - what we know today as social conservatism came around with the reformation and counter-reformation.

Nowadays Religion has appropriated that role fully and totally. It is very strange to hear a secular arguement against the pre-martial sexual nowadays.
8941  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Do Ron Paul supporters remind you of communists? on: December 10, 2007, 02:20:37 pm
I'm not American so I come from a very different angle than you, people wonder why then I post on this forum and the answer is simple.. apart from mere idle boredom, US Politics is the greatest spectator sport on earth.

But despite this I would agree you with both parties over there have long given up at any attempt at moral legitmitacy (though no doubt BRTD would disagree; that is for a different thread.)

What you fail to understand it is this thread isn't about Paul's beliefs or even about libertarianism (which I find to be an intolerant strain of American Ultra-Nationalism dressed up in the clothing of being an enlightment against the government, like it was some octopus with its oozy menancing tentacles in every jar of US society - which is somewhat true, but only because the people invited those tentacles there in the first place. But I digress..) rather this is about Ron Paul supporters - that's why the intrade thing is relevant; as it shows how deluded some of them are towards such a minor candidate - still.

One only needs to go onto any sort of right-libertarian or political in general website to find Ron Paul supporters waxing lyrical about his virtues; trying to ignore the fact that some of his biggest supporters are white supremactists and the black helicopters crowd or trying to ignore the flaws into their doctrine. You are not the worst of those types, but you still spout phrases such as "limited government" as if they were some unlimited virtue, ignoring the inherent problems of such a belief.

This is why "Ron Paulism" is borderline communistic in its rhetoric; it creates a narrative towards everything fits (Government - bad, business - good; very simple and appealing rhetoric; but how much those business - especially big business - depend on the government? For example. This is ignored or pathetically explained away - like Boss "I'm a Marxist now" Tweed trying to show us the old dead horse of fascism being a corporate conspiracy - elements of truth in that? Yes. But far from the whole story.) and this is also why Ron Paul is hardly taken seriously outside certain circles. Politics is about adapting to the problems inherent in reality. Ron Paul supporters believe and want - a different reality.
8942  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Iceland Teen Calls Private Number to Chat With Bush on: December 10, 2007, 02:03:38 pm
Quote
The Icelandic police were "under orders" from the U.S.?

Yeah. Huh is the only accurate reaction here.

That, and FF.
8943  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Do Ron Paul supporters remind you of communists? on: December 10, 2007, 02:02:01 pm
So this is your line of thinking:

Quote
Typical libertarian: I believe that government is too large for the good of everyone. I want to lessen political corruption, graft, and give people more control over their own lives.

BRTD: Political cult! Political cult!

You fail to realize that neither of us right now are attacking libertarianism per se; rather the attitude of some of Pauls most devout supporters.
8944  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Do Ron Paul supporters remind you of communists? on: December 10, 2007, 01:45:18 pm
If you mean the sort of doctrinaire Trotskyites\Maoists from the 20s to about the late 70s then the answer is obviously yes.
8945  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: is Rudy Giuliani a fascist? on: December 10, 2007, 10:05:46 am
No, not really. Has enough leanings in that general direction to worry me though.

The 14 Characteristics of Fascism.

Where be that from? As a classification thingy it's pretty dodgy (frequently misses significant, and disturbing, features of fascist parties and states, while making several basic errors). There are much better ones out there (and dear Rudy still scores disturbingly high on those).

This was the list written by some Political science professor from way back which came to public notice during the last election to prove that "OMG BUSH IS TEH FASCIST!!11111"
8946  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How long has it been since your home has been represented by the other party on: December 10, 2007, 09:59:42 am
@Jas: I imagine the boundaries of Dublin West have shifted so much since 1981 to make those earlier results irrelevant.

My constituency has existed (well, reformed really.. its complicated..) since 1981. Though its boundaries have constantly shifted. The third Taoiseach Sean Lemass (1959-1966; Fianna Fail) represented this constituency. Despite this it has historically favoured Fine Gael more than Fianna Fail; due to being more Middle class, suburban and "west British" - factors associated more with FG than FF. Though this has changed quite alot in the past 20 years with the rise of the Progressive Democrats who have been pretty strong. It also has a decent soft left vote (*raises hand*) (enough for at least one seat). In 1992 the labour party made a major mistake in running only one candidate - when it won over 2 quotas worth of votes.

Dublin South:
1981: 2 Fianna Fail 3 Fine Gael
1982(I): 2FF 3FG
1982(II): 2FF 3FG
1987: 2FF 2FG 1 Progressive Democrat
1989: 2FF 2FG 1 Green Party (First Green ever elected in Ireland! And he's still one of the good guys - Roger Garland.)
1992: 2FF 1FG 1Labour 1PD
1997: 2FF 2FG 1PD
2002: 2FF 1FG 1GP 1PD
2007: 2FF 2FG 1GP

The seat I currently reside most of my time in now though is Kildare North, which has only existed since 2002 with one by-election in between:
2002: 1FF 1FG 1LAB
2004 (post by-election): IND gain from FF
2007: 2FF 1FG 1LAB

It is one of the fast growing regions of the country.
8947  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: BREAKING NEWS: Up to 5 shot in possible sniper attack at Omaha mall, WOWT TV on: December 10, 2007, 09:45:40 am
Of course there is a matter of Free will here. Hawkins is responsible is actions I didn't say otherwise...

But why in that case do more people America like Hawkins direct their free will towards violence than in European countries, where more often they don't?
8948  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: is Rudy Giuliani a fascist? on: December 10, 2007, 09:43:29 am
He's too much of a wannabe to be an actual fascist.
8949  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 09, 2007, 04:58:47 pm
Unfortunely the Computers at NUIM shut down at 10.. which gives me 3 minutes to post a reply.

Quote
At this stage Harney and Grealish are de facto FF TDs. Grealish has made it perfectly clear that he is more than willing to sign up - the absence of any PD leadership makes that all the easier. The question for him is simply when it becomes official.

It's clear now that barring something unforseen, Harney will be Minister for Health as long as Bertie remains at the top. Will be interesting to see if Cowen would be willing to move her should he become Taoiseach before the end of this term. Looks increasingly unlikely that she'll run for election again.

Can't disagree with that.

Quote
Haven't seen the Sundays today, but the coverage generally has been remarkable. I was only vaguely aware of this woman up until she died. I really don't understand the interest. It eludes me how people seem to be so fascinated.

Actually I'm very aware (I think) of what lies behind all this.. but in order to explain what see me consuming more time than I already have.
8950  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 09, 2007, 04:46:30 pm
The PDs will merge will Fianna Fail before the next election, so it is written. (Except that maybe one or two of them will go over to Fine Gael... but who out of the decimated Parliamentary party would do that now like Parlon and O'Donnell (thankfully!) are gone.)

Meanwhile having looked over some the Sunday papers down here in Kildare in the Local Dunnes, did you know OMG SOME WOMAN DIED!1111?
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