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8926  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Australian medical expert wants families to pay a $5000-plus "baby levy" on: December 16, 2007, 02:34:48 pm
Compared to The USA, Canada, Mexico, the UK and Japan, Australia is;
-tied with Canada for lowest population density 3 / sq km.
-has the lowest population per sq km  of arable land
-has the lowest population per sq km of irrigated land.

That's because most of the land isn't easily arable or irrigated. Like Northern Canada its land is completely unsuited to mass farming and major settlement. Which is why all of those settlements are by the coast; and most of the Agricultural regions border rivers; yet this hardly makes up 20% of the total surface area of Australia. And then there is the Aboroginal problem.

Compared to those countries Australia is sitting pretty.

And the United States has terriority which is entirely similiar to the Gibson Desert or the Northern Terriority. (Perhaps Death Valley would be the closest - but that makes up a tiny fraction of the surface area.). Not to mention that Australia has in recent years had most extreme drought in the past 50 years. Living in such conditions just isn't appealing to anyone.

Also you guys ignore the possibility of technology improvements which can make things better

Ignoring the possibility that technology actually might be making the situation worse (ie. Global warming contributing to the drought.) have you thought the prospect of something that might happen isn't going to entice many people into the interior?

Most people ignore the possibility of ourselves inventing mass-produced Jetpacks or Rocketships.

On that logic you could say that Australia can only support 50,000 or so, but that's using hunter -gatherer technology. Using agriculture it can obviously support far more.

Except very few areas are suited to intensive agriculture. (And most of Western Australia iirc is given over to massive ranches which explains partly why population density is so low and why nearly everyone in WA lives in Perth.)

Of course people might invent a better system which might improve all local agricultural systems (but what will happen to the ranchers?) in the same way humans might invent rocketships, which given the ability to colonize space would solve this immediatly.

Those ideas aren't practical now but with improving technology and increasing demand they may become reality some day. Don't underestimate the ability of humans to develop innovative solutions.

I don't; but you seem to suggesting that people should basing essential decisions on what might happen.
8927  Election Archive / 2008 Elections / Re: Opinion of the Candidate - Mike Huckabee on: December 16, 2007, 02:17:33 pm
What's the point? Why not just re-elect George W. Bush for a third term?

I ask the same thing of Hillary Clinton supporters.

So you think there's no difference between the parties?

Tweed is a marxist now.

And I agree; what the world doesn't need right now is an over zealous cross bread of Jimmy Carter and Dubya in the White house.
8928  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Which posters would you like to "vote off the island"? on: December 16, 2007, 02:08:53 pm
I'd vote myself off, but his forum is too damn addicting.
8929  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Russian legislative "elections", 2007 on: December 15, 2007, 06:05:48 pm
Good article from the LRofB here, even if told from a very left wing perspective and a year out of date on Modern Russia (caution: Long). I'm posting it here as it will hopefully get some attention as it will get none on the articles board.

8930  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Which of the Two Posters Before you, would do better on Jeopardy? on: December 15, 2007, 02:44:49 pm
Hashemite, as he is more of a humble man.
8931  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: European Football Thread on: December 15, 2007, 02:44:23 pm
Mark Lawrenson said on Today FM earlier today that he has it on 'very good authority' that the FAI have offered the Irish job to Terry Venables!

Lock your tills. Now.

Already way ahead of you...

I really don't understand this move (well actually I do, FAI desperation\anti-buckstoppingness.) and I can't get why anyone thinks Venables is a good coach. After his most recent appointments even the English rag media has stopped going "OMG VENABLES!!!111" every time the English managers position is up for grabs.
8932  Election Archive / 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: SC: CNN/Time: Clinton leads by 1 in SC on: December 15, 2007, 01:13:50 pm
Outlier, right?
8933  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Would the preceding poster have been on McCarthy's list of 205 communists... on: December 14, 2007, 07:45:00 pm
8934  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: European leaders sign landmark treaty on: December 14, 2007, 07:39:25 pm
75%!! No. (To have 75% stating themselves against a European Treaty here would require some it to explicitly state something along the lines of: Ireland to pledge itself to European military alliance while being re-subsumed into Britain...or somesuch.)

... and even then if it was claimed that such a move would benefit the Irish economy a level even just 50% NO would be infeasible.

(o\c he got the 75% from adding up the "Againsts" and the "Don't know's". If I was to take a guess at this point I would say any referendum would be closer than Nice II but have roughly the same turnout - though the NO vote might actually win a few constituencies this time it will stay 55-45 Yes or something similiar. Though apparently some business leaders are going to come out against the treaty. Which is unique to all other previous campaigns... now, if only we could somehow get Anthony Coughlan, Justin Barrett and Sinn Fein deported for the entire period of the campaign we might have a chance. Actually coming to think of it, scrap that whole sentence after the word "deported". Smiley )
8935  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Which 1968 candidate is the preceeding poster most like on: December 14, 2007, 03:51:05 pm
Probably George Wallace for all I know...

8936  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 14, 2007, 02:38:03 pm
I've almost started to check Fine Gael's press releases regularly simply for my own personal amusement. Their latest offering inclides the wonderful line "the army could also help with posture development of schoolchildren" (oh... the mental picture!). FG suggest bringing the army in to help the battle against child obesity - but apparently "Willie O'Dea has unfortunately dismissed my proposals out of hand and seems intent instead on 'playing politics' with this issue".

I don't like it when FG's arguments lead to my agreement with this man:

What is with your obsession with posting that pic?

EDIT: The FG website is awful.
8937  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: European leaders sign landmark treaty on: December 14, 2007, 10:22:40 am
Actually it's up to us to stop this from being implented.

So in short, we're doomed. Smiley
8938  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ireland General Discussion on: December 14, 2007, 10:00:55 am
The Standards in Public Office Commission have released the spending figures from the General Election.

Fianna Fαil
Fine Gael
Progressive Democrats
Sinn Fιin
Green Party
Socialist Party
Workers' Party
Christian Solidarity Party

Those PD seats turned out to be quite expensive!

According to the IT Frank McNamara, the PD candidate for Dublin South Central (which was never going to elect a PD; even if the PDs had a good year. I know alot of that area - it ain't PD terriority.) was the individual candidate with the tenth highest level of personal spending in the campaign. All that, and less than 1,000 1st Prefs. Hahaha.

And of that "top ten" only two iirc got elected - Parlon was first, Cowley(!!!) was second.. and they got nowhere. Cowley seemingly managed only to pick up the "Shell for Sea" vote and collapsed everywhere else.
8939  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The child witches of Nigeria on: December 14, 2007, 09:46:22 am
Not a surprise. It has long been a policy of some of these churches (are these catholic or protestant or evangelical or what?) just to take the existing "native" beliefs and then put a cross over it to give a christian shine; to show how the locals have 'converted'.

(An ancient example, but somewhat relevant: In the 6th Century AD the Catholic church had problems converting England to its version of christianity - which in the end in only vaguely succeeded - one missionary complained to the pope that no what matter what they did the locals would always continue some of their pagan beliefs - such as praying at wells. The pope replied with something like "Well let them continue to pray at their wells, but make sure you put a cross there first.")
8940  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Congress reminds us that Christians are awesome. on: December 14, 2007, 09:41:09 am
That implies that Kucinich does not have nutty ideas, which is, of course, incorrect, even compared to your positions.

Kucinich's positions are essentially mainstream liberal.  Just because he's short or claims to have seen a UFO are not valid rebuttals of his policies.

Reagan constantly claimed to have seen UFOs (I think Carter did too, but I can't be certain..). Then there was that mystic stuff with his wife and also his unusual readings of the Book of revelation which often fed into some of his speeches... So clearly senile\mad\kooks can't be elected to the White house.

Wow, this is quite possible the boldest move I've ever seen Congress take.  Those Christians are so persecuted and downtrodden.  I mean it's not as if the United States is 75% Christian or anything.  Perhaps next Congress will pass a resolution celebrating kittens.

The funny there is that, considering this congress, I am not sure whether that should be sarcasm or not..
8941  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Australian medical expert wants families to pay a $5000-plus "baby levy" on: December 13, 2007, 11:34:47 am
And why should such a sparsely populated country adopt population control?

The lack of water, maybe? Unless they can design humans that don't require water consumption...

Theoretically, Australia's max pop is roughly 50 million, but it's optimal pop is 5 million. 25-28 million is the tipping point for sustainability of lifestyle.

How do you arrive at those conclusions?
Currently Australia's population is about 20 million and the population density is less than 3 people/ sq km.
By comparison the US population density is over 30.
UK is over 200 and Japan is over 300.

You do basically understand that a large part of the Australian landmass is essentially uninhabitable to all but the hardest types and neglected aborigionals. At present 90%(IIRC) of the population live near the coast and of those a vast majority are crammed into just 5 cities.

And yes this is a stupid idea. Not neccesarily a left-wing one though; but hey libertarians!
8942  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What's with all these "on the day you were born" threads? on: December 13, 2007, 11:23:45 am

By the time of 2012 we will probably a few forummers who were born in the George W Bush era; as odd as that is the think of.
8943  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: which 1964 presidential candidate is the preceding atlasian most like... on: December 13, 2007, 11:22:19 am


(LBJ o\c.)
8944  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: BREAKING NEWS: Up to 5 shot in possible sniper attack at Omaha mall, WOWT TV on: December 13, 2007, 11:19:19 am
Ah, so you're suggesting that it doesn't matter too much if victims get punished as well and a society of fear develops, so long they contribute to a low official crime rate?

Well, he's correct that ridiculously harsh punishments for every crime would probably result in a low crime rate.

What this really proves is that a low crime rate by itself is not a very good metric of whether or not a place is desirable.

Not only that, but isn't even always true (that high level of punishment results in a low crime rate). Examples: Victorian Britain, Lots of modern South America...
8945  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What forrumer would make the best running mate for the preceding poster? on: December 13, 2007, 08:16:50 am
8946  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: Top Five Most Religious U.S. States on: December 13, 2007, 07:54:52 am
If it was because his intent was to cast doubt on your religion by saying most believers are stupid, that was a fair point.

That was part of it. But only part.

If it was because you object to the idea that all followers of your religion are stupid on the grounds that being stupid is a negative thing, I consider that morally tantamount to replying to gay jokes with "I'm no faggot!"

That wasn't.

The blue-collar deserve defense, and the willfully ignorant deserve defense to some degree, but I don't think that the "stupid" deserve any less defense than the blue-collar.  And certainly they do not deserve any implications that their consisting the bulk of religious persons would be a negative thing, IMHO.  (Apologies for the last sentence being awkward to hell.)

I strongly object to the tendency of a lot of people here to view themselves as being part of some sort of intelligent elite when all they actually are is spoiled snobs sneering at people less fortunate than themselves. That sort of attitude is really quite sickening.

^^^^^^^^^^ (strongly agree)

Btw, as for church attendance: Attendance figures are only important in a relative sense, ie. If there has been a significant drop in church attendance from 15 years earlier then it does suggest a declining religiousity regardless of the actual numbers involved. The opposite is true of static numbers; 25% attendance in 1980 and 26% attendance doesn't actually prove anything. Except that I will point out that especially in Rural areas (at least in Ireland) going to church is as much (if not much more) social than religious as it can be the best place to get the community together. In urban areas no such emphasis exists.
8947  General Discussion / History / Re: Who was the worst President in the history of the United States? on: December 12, 2007, 04:51:58 pm
From my limited knowledge of the great depression I think some of the responibility should be put on business rather than on politicians (note: not all, plus business and politics in  the 1920s should never be taught off as seperate things; if the opposite ever applies then that moment in history was not it.) as many were highly aware of the problems of overproduction but thought that this post-war period was some sort of historical exception, a new future if you will. Plus the 1920s was quite possibly the greediest decade in modern history, until the 1980s. It both cases it couldn't last.
8948  General Discussion / History / Re: Ranking of George HW Bush on: December 12, 2007, 04:48:09 pm
Very, Very low.. extremely low.. I have higher opinions of millipedes.
8949  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Rate the preceedig poster's "hackishness" on a scale of 1 to 10! on: December 12, 2007, 04:33:36 pm
8950  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What poster has moved furthest left and right since coming here? on: December 11, 2007, 03:45:53 pm
No, the rural backwaters aren't where you're likely to find fundamentalist Christians. They mostly live on the outskirts and suburban areas of the larger cities.

That applies to just about everywhere in the US except the south by the way.

I was kinda imagining that unholy alliance which seems to be emerging between the Black helicopters crowd and christian fundementalism. (Doesn't exist? Christians for Ron Paul beg to differ.)

Of course we are talking about Evangelicals here; funny that given that here too what evangelical (protestants) there are tend to be suburban too. Though this only refers to about a fraction of one percent. Though I do personally know some born agains (who are many things; but never fundies. Once social issues are mentioned these people are usually the first to attack "the church".)

The perception is funny though; the classical view of Fundies which applies tends to be a rural hicks who left school at 8 and got all their real education through the bible and Mamma. Which goes back to the whole the Fundies have the money (and the professional charlatans too.)
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