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26  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Democrats who can unite the Country on: August 18, 2017, 12:12:45 am
We can't even agree on reality or what a "fact" is for Christ's sake. How is one suppose to unite the country with a clear mandate absent a national crisis in this kind of environment? It does not happen.

I didn't say the Democrats would unite the country in 2020. I just said even a major crisis isn't likely to unite the country in that way. After all, look at the Civil War. It was a major crisis if there ever was one, one side had a decisive victory if there ever was one, yet.... here we are, still debating Confederate statues 150 years later.

The last very polarizing era in American politics was the 1960s. How did that end? Well, it just sort of fizzled out. The center retook control in the early 1970s and the radicals were ridiculed into oblivion. All that's needed is for centrism to reassert itself.
27  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: 2016 Democratic Primary - All States Vote on Same Day on: August 18, 2017, 12:00:24 am
How do you think the map would look if Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee were all up for the Democratic nomination and all of the states had their primaries on the same day (like the Presidential election)?

Not that different. Clinton wins Michigan, and does better in Appalachia because she never makes the "coal miners out of work" comment.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Harris vs. Gabbard 2020 Democratic Primary Map? on: August 17, 2017, 11:57:24 pm
Re-elect Trump.
29  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Democrats who can unite the Country on: August 17, 2017, 11:51:16 pm
We need a horrific crisis to unite this country. Think of the Great Depression/WWII, the Civil War (which ended with mixed results), or the Revolutionary War. It has to be something that shakes us so much to our core that we're forced to put our differences aside and come together. Nearly 3,000 Americans died on 9/11 and the polarization was only halted for a couple years then we went right back to our divided selves by 2004-2006. So a national crisis would have to shake us more than 9/11 did in order to bring us together.

As it stands, no Democrat can unite us. There's nothing they can do to rally the country together in the current circumstances.

No, we don't "need" a horrific crisis. Better one person die in Charlottesville than another 9/11. And don't forget that the country was not very polarized in the 1920s, except for a tiny segment left over from the Civil War. There isn't really any example of a crisis "healing" polarization. Usually one side totally wins and the other loses.
30  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Was Unite The Right one of the biggest backfires ever? on: August 17, 2017, 11:44:19 pm
I don't think it was a failure. I think the media attention and seeing the size of the rally will cause more young men to become "radicalized" and serve as an invitation for WNs to come out into the open.

Exactly. This is why I oppose taking down Confederate symbols. It just kicks the hornet's nest and doesn't help a single person. It just makes people fear they're losing their "heritage" and turn to WN, which actually can hurt people, unlike these statues.
31  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Trump Recover? on: August 17, 2017, 09:09:43 pm
This reminds me a lot of Pussygate. Plenty of Republican office holders jumped ship then... and jumped back in a few days later.

At the end of the day, Trump is still president and more popular with the base than they are.

The Trump presidency is like this bizarre nightmare where every freak out there you previously hated comes out of the woodwork and wants to be your friend, only.... (1) it's fake friends, (2) they only want to be friends in the most useless ways, (3) you never wanted them as your friends, and (4) if you really embrace their friendship you'd have to ditch your real friends.
32  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Sardar Daud Khan, First President of Afghanistan on: August 17, 2017, 08:53:13 pm
Tragically doomed figure, but FF nonetheless.
33  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: In a war between China-Pakistan vs. Russia-India, which would Iran side with? on: August 17, 2017, 08:46:24 pm
Not gonna happen.
No, but it's an interesting hypothetical, and a land war between India and Pakistan with funding from Russia and China would certainly be... interesting.

Not really. I don't go around fantasizing about war. Admittedly the number of militaristic f-wads seems to be on the rise. But that's bad.
34  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: MI Governor 2018 on: August 17, 2017, 08:41:07 pm
Ossoff sucked in $30 million, didn't run on anything, and lost by a bigger margin than he did the first time. Lost by a bigger margin than Hillary Clinton. And I didn't think it was possible to be a worse candidate than her.
35  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: In a war between China-Pakistan vs. Russia-India, which would Iran side with? on: August 17, 2017, 08:36:51 pm
Not gonna happen.
36  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Trump Recover? on: August 17, 2017, 08:17:11 pm
I know Trump has been plagued with controversy during his administration, but now it seems like he's taking serious hits with a majority of the GOP railing against him, especially with Senator Corker saying he's unhinged and Senator Scott saying Trump's moral authority has been compromised. This seems like his worst debacle since Pussygate.

So, will he recover?

So swampite elites have paid lip service against him, he's wounded? Where have we seen this movie before? No. Do you see him dropping in the polls? No. Oh no, James Murdoch has said something about him, oh no, Republicans senators don't like him, oh no, the military-industrial complex is contradicting him, oh no, rich CEOs are denouncing him, oh no, Fox News hosts are breaking with him... Fellow liberals. Look at the groups I've just named. What bedfellows is this president pushing us into? These are our enemies. Let us not forget who we are and get in bed with them. Who's missing? The people. The white working class.... they have not abandoned him.

Because Bannon was right... the longer the left talks about identity politics, the better for Trump. He's going up in the polls, not down.

The Democrats should've used this time to roll out their single payer alternative to the ACA.
37  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are you a Marxist? on: August 16, 2017, 10:03:06 pm
No, but Marx is no less valuable a 19th century thinker than Hegel, Mill, or Marshall. Many of his insights into the nature of capitalism remain just as vital today as they were in his day-- perhaps even more so. We are now living in, by far, the longest extended period of wage stagnation since the 1840s.
38  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Steve Bannon, Unrepentant (Phoned Am. Prospect co-editor for interview??) on: August 16, 2017, 09:54:02 pm
Well, I thought Bannon was the worst in the administration, but at least he's not out to execute a death sentence on millions. Team Bannon on this one.
39  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump goes full Alt-Right and voids everything he said yesterday on: August 16, 2017, 09:52:11 pm
The Left demonizes white people, period. It's not fair that this rubs off on the Democratic party, but it does. Yesterday Nikkita Oliver, who came in third place in the Seattle mayoral primary, attacked the two women who made it into the runoff as "white." Of course this kind of behavior is inflammatory and nurtures the Trump-right. I wish both sides would cut it out, or a vital 'center' ideology would be resuscitated.

Saying "both sides" when comparing the President of the United States and head of the Republican Party to someone came in third place in the Seattle mayoral primary is disingenuous, at best.

So we only castigate the right-wing side until a Democratic President is elected, then we only castigate the left-wing side? Racial incitement from the left-wing helped build Trump in the first place. I'm with bronz on this one. Both sides are not good.
40  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Why don't Americans celebrate Civil Rights success more? on: August 16, 2017, 09:45:20 pm
When you think about the history of slavery and how we abolished it and came so far, and just a couple decades after the Civil Rights era we had a twice elected African American President, how come Americans don't seem to celebrate our successes but rather focus on negatives and work that hasn't been done yet?

It's like a kid going from having all "F" grades on his report card to all but one "A" grades and getting yelled at because one subject is still an "F". It doesn't make sense to me.

The left exists to criticize, not to celebrate.
41  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Democrats who can unite the Country on: August 16, 2017, 09:37:19 pm
None, the US is so polarized that it's impossible for anyone to unite the country.  Basically the two sides are so far apart that no matter who becomes president a large chunk of the country will hate them.

This.  We have entered an era of intense polarization, and I fear it may only become worse.  Based on current trends, I suspect the US in 20 years will be hyper-polarized, with the parties in a South African type system (i.e., racial stratification by party- there will be the "White" party, and then the party for everyone else).  All debates will eventually lead back to identity politics.  There will be debates over other stuff, like economics and national security.. but they will be on the periphery.  Sorta like global warming now- sure, it comes up now and then, but no one really cares.  I have a projected long-term electoral map for this scenario here.

I suspect this will be the case, boomers or no boomers, because I think some of the trends driving polarization (e.g., geographical self-sorting, social media, 24/7 news cycle, tendency of media to sensationalize stories or add a racial lens, etc.), are not going away any time soon.

No one candidate can "unite the country."  Even JBE wouldn't be able to do it.  This is something that goes way beyond any one person's ability to fix.  And certainly not someone like Harris or Booker.  McGovernForPrez is right; if Obama couldn't, then they won't either.

What it will take is some catastrophic event to restore a sense of common purpose, national brotherhood, shared sacrifice, etc., that cuts across class and racial lines.  Maybe a severe depression would?  A war on the scale of WW2 probably would, where people are being drafted in the millions, and for a minute you're thinking just about survival.  Stuff like racial tensions aren't exactly on the mind when you're landing on the shores of Normandy trying not to get shot.

I'm not advocating for a war of that size, but just making an observation.  We would need something on that scale, truly society changing, to take us out of this "funk."

Of course, we don't need to de-polarize for the Dems to win again (and vise versa).  With the right candidate, Dems can just boost minority turnout in Detroit and FL, flip them and win in 2020.

Aren't you one of the ones advocating a nuclear war with North Korea? As much as I hate polarization, I'd prefer polarization to tens of millions of people dying, thanks. I've already said I'd rather the Republicans control things for 100 years than that.

Also, since no one will attack us, we'd have to start it, and I'd caution the risks of turning into Nazi Germany for the sake of uniting the country. The long term consequences of such a thing are not just gonna be a repeat of the fairy tale past.
42  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: MO Court Denies Condemned Prisoner Stay of Execution Despite DNA Evidence on: August 16, 2017, 05:39:13 pm
I still remember when Missouri and Vermont were considered the two bellwether states. Missouri was still a bellwether state going back to 1956 on the day I first signed up for Atlas Forum, in fact. Now it just seems so conservative. Sigh.
43  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How Long until Rex Tillerson resigns? on: August 16, 2017, 05:09:29 pm
Hopefully he stays on. He was long one of Trump's saner Cabinet picks. The only thing bad about him was that he was an Exxon CEO whose sole reason for being appointed was to get sanctions lifted against Russia so Exxon could make money, but now that that problem has been legislatively foreclosed, there is no downside to Tillerson. He's likely the best we will get out of this administration. Besides, if he goes, that horribly hyped neocon Nikki Haley could get it, which would be a nightmare (and there's even an outside chance of John Bolton, not sure which would be worse but don't want to find out).
44  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pat Buchanan: Where is "scientific proof" all men are created equal? on: August 16, 2017, 04:48:30 pm
The statement from the Declaration of Independence derives from Thomas Hobbes' observation in The Leviathan that all men are roughly equal. In general, I find this observation to be true. Society creates far, far, far larger stratification between people than are found in biology. I, for one, am a white supremacist. My political ideology derives from the thought of old, dead white men, such as Hobbes.

To see how true Hobbes' observation is, just note that the inequality between people at age 18 is far smaller than the inequality at age 48. If, one day, the least popular kid in school beats up the most popular kid, he can become the most popular kid overnight. On the other hand, if you are a homeless bum at age 48, the hurdles are far higher to overcome your former classmate who has now become president of a medium-sized company. At age 48, people have a social station, whereas at age 18, they don't. Hence, reducing people to biology has an equalizing impact, compared to how we normally conceive of human inequality.
45  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Why should minorities vote Republican? on: August 16, 2017, 04:13:13 pm
Lots of reasons.

- Democratic-controlled inner city public school districts are failing black kids.
- The breakdown of the nuclear family structure due to promiscuity, divorce, is failing black kids. Black women just want their men to stay and be full fathers, which would be better achieved with social conservatism.
- 50 years of affirmative action hasn't helped blacks.
- The success of Nigerian immigrants shows you can be black and do well with hard work.
- Fight the soft bigotry of low expectations.
- Black voters tend to prefer establishment neoliberal candidates, and the Democrats are about to be taken over by Bernie Bros.
- Poor black voters tend to be more socially conservative on LGBT and religion issues compared to college educated whites.
- Omarosa, Diamond & Silk, Sheriff Clarke, Azealia Banks, etc. plenty of new role models.
46  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump goes full Alt-Right and voids everything he said yesterday on: August 16, 2017, 11:37:49 am
The Left demonizes white people, period. It's not fair that this rubs off on the Democratic party, but it does. Yesterday Nikkita Oliver, who came in third place in the Seattle mayoral primary, attacked the two women who made it into the runoff as "white." Of course this kind of behavior is inflammatory and nurtures the Trump-right. I wish both sides would cut it out, or a vital 'center' ideology would be resuscitated.
47  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Elizabeth Warren to address Netroots Nation on: August 15, 2017, 05:54:54 pm
She talks a good game, but will never run. Too scared. If she had any balls she'd have endorsed Bernie last year. She'll probably end up signing a deal to implicitly support Kamala Harris or Cory Booker in exchange for input into who their Treasury Secretary would be.
48  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: SJW's Take Issue with...the Maryland Flag on: August 15, 2017, 09:58:18 am
I still don't get why people think I'm a troll. I may have made some posts in the past that were expressions of my anxieties, some of which turned out to be justified, but most of my viewpoints are quite real. I may perhaps just need to forget about politics, as it's not good for my personal mental health.

The time where you flip-flopped into being a pro-Trump Republican for about 1-2 weeks springs to mind.

That's because the Democratic party was such a fail I thought maybe I could have more influence on things as a Republican. After two weeks I realized I couldn't stomach being one. Okay, more like after a few days but I did keep up the charade for another week and a half to look like less of a flip flopper. I probably should just stop posting on Atlas for a while.
49  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: SJW's Take Issue with...the Maryland Flag on: August 14, 2017, 11:15:52 pm
That's because the Democratic party was such a fail I thought maybe I could have more influence on things as a Republican. After two weeks I realized I couldn't stomach being one. Okay, more like after a few days but I did keep up the charade for another week and a half to look less pathetic. I probably should just stop posting on Atlas for a while.
50  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: SJW's Take Issue with...the Maryland Flag on: August 14, 2017, 11:07:18 pm
I still don't get why people think I'm a troll. I may have made some posts in the past that were expressions of my anxieties, some of which turned out to be justified, but most of my viewpoints are quite real. I may perhaps just need to forget about politics, as it's not good for my personal mental health.
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