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February 13, 2016, 01:55:49 am
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News: Election 2016 predictions are now open!.

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26  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 10:21:54 pm
I liked Sanders "Why does the _____ industry donate?" Line that he repeated with various industries. It's a very good point.

Indeed. It says a lot that Hillary has NO response to that.

Here is the proper response:
"Senator Sanders, I ran against President Obama in 2008 and found him a formidable opponent.  HE took money from the pharmaceutical industry!  HE took money from billionaires!  For heaven's sake, he took twice as much money from Wall Street as I have!  [misleading statistic, use the general election numbers]  So I ask you Senator Sanders, since you appear to be claiming that our President was bought and paid for by those industries, what did they get out of it?  What did he give them for all the money they gave him?"
Maybe she could start listing things AGAINST those industries' interests that Obama did and claiming she was partly responsible for them.

This doesn't answer the question. Is she arguing that the corporations that donated to Obama did so for no good reason? Out of the goodness of their heart? Or do they just like to waste their money?

The correct answer is 1) employees of industries are not the same as industries themselves, and 2) only 7% of Clinton's donations were from Wall Street employees. In a small, local election a single industry can dominate a politician, but with a national figure like Hillary, she doesn't really need them. Bernie's own campaign (as well as Obama's in 2008) proved that huge numbers of smaller donors are more important for national candidates.
27  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 10:13:03 pm
Women announcers, women questioners, women analysts, lol.

I liked Sanders "Why does the _____ industry donate?" Line that he repeated with various industries. It's a very good point.

That was the weakness of Clinton's whole image and she failed to address it head on. If she loses the campaign, it'll be because of this.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 10:08:14 pm
Hillary talking about policy fine but not addressing Sanders' point about why interests contribute money.
29  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 10:03:56 pm
Sanders' willingness to use the word "corrupt" is emblematic of the reason he's done so well and may win against Clinton.
30  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 09:51:48 pm
Good answer on Sanders on poor whites. Clinton is good with specifics but Sanders is showing he thinks systemically.
31  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 09:23:28 pm
Sanders just keeps throwing out the same slogans and it works for him.
32  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 09:17:26 pm
Ugh, Clinton goes straight to personal attacks. She always pumps her body up and down when she's doing this like a petulant child. And the problem with her whole argument is that neither of them can realistically implement their plans with this Congress.

Sanders is talking about bread and butter issues that matter to the American people.
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 09:10:43 pm
Just looked up, and IMO Hillary's suit is quite garish. If there's one thing I miss about iSneed, it's that she had very good taste in clothing.

If this is a contest of looks, I'm afraid the Republicans have us beat.
34  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 11, 2016, 09:07:42 pm
Great opening speech by Sanders.
35  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Millennials on: February 11, 2016, 08:50:03 pm
Freedom Generation, but not quite up there with the Baby Boomers, who were a quantum leap from their predecessors.
36  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Black NYT columnist: Stop Bernie-Splaining to Black Voters on: February 11, 2016, 08:46:43 pm
Dumb article. I don't see why it's more important that Sanders is less engaged with the black vote than it is what Hillary is unengaged with the youth vote, as the latter is equally as important. Yet she seems to get a lot less crap over it than Sanders gets over his underperformance among blacks. You can't win every demographic.
37  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: 2016 Primary Endorsements megathread. on: February 11, 2016, 08:13:26 pm

Establishment hack.
38  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Is Trump sane on (non trade) foreign policy? on: February 11, 2016, 07:18:13 pm
In a Republican Party that has espoused air striking Russian planes? Absolutely! It's all relative.

Bush did invite Putin to his ranch, looked into his soul and found a good man. So it wouldn't be unprecedented.
39  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Sanders' views are mainstream: Why Bernie is beating Hillary on: February 11, 2016, 12:39:26 pm
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/10/opinions/sanders-views-are-mainstream-zelizer/index.html

This article sums up Sanders' success quite nicely. He may have no idea of how to get there, but people want campaigns to be inspirational. Us Hillary supporters may be genuine when we criticize Sanders for not having a plan to get there, but people vote with their hearts, not their heads, and arguing against that won't change it.
40  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: The world became more social liberal economic conservative in the last 50 years on: February 11, 2016, 10:01:21 am
Wait since when is there a right-wing dictatorship in China???

People vary with their interpretation of the exact dates, but in general, most would agree it was prior to your birth, and I don't say that in a snarky ageist way - just that you've known nothing but capitalist China.

Sure the Chinese Communist Party isn't really communist at all anymore, but would you really characterize it as "right wing"? (Or is it "fiscally conservative but socially liberal!!"? Tongue) The Chinese government strikes me as largely non-ideological bureaucrats who just want to stay in power.

There really is no such thing as "non-ideological". The CCP is heterodox and employs a lot of doublethink but in effect it acts as a right-wing organisation. There's a reason they're so close to the KMT nowadays.

It's hard to say because it's unclear what the alternative would be if the CPC fell. Their nominal rhetoric is certainly still left-wing, and their suppression of religion, family planning policies, and pro-Russia/North Korea stance are left wing. The last bit is a reverse from the Deng years.

Someone who advocated democratic reform and Western values would be considered on the far right in China's political spectrum.

In some ways it combines the worst of the left and the right. They're close to the KMT because the KMT is more anti-independence than the DPP, not for ideological reasons.
41  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should super delegates be abolished? on: February 11, 2016, 09:39:27 am
If they really wanted to make it democratic, they would have made all 4 early states primaries that vote on the same day, and change them up on a random basis every cycle, or would make it a national primary.
42  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Bernie broke 60% in NH on: February 11, 2016, 02:06:53 am
I'm hearing that this is the largest margin of victory of any non incumbent Democrat in the NH primary.  Dukakis winning by 16 points was 2nd place. It also beats the incumbent's victories in 1968 and 1980.  No one ever won the Democratic NH primary by double digits and failed to get the nomination. Of course we're not going to take anything for granted, it will be a long hard primary fight.

Among registered Democrats they were tied.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/among-registered-democrats-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-finished-tied-in-new-hampshire/23800/
43  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: What could Sanders achieve as President that Clinton wouldn't? on: February 10, 2016, 11:29:07 pm
That only solidifies your Berniebro status even more, young man Smiley
44  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Would you welcome a world government? on: February 10, 2016, 11:22:31 pm
Yes, and I believe we will eventually get there, even if it takes hundreds of years.
45  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Chances to win the nomination (nationwide) on: February 10, 2016, 11:19:28 pm
DEM:
Sanders 50
Clinton 50

REP:
Trump 45
Kasich 15
Rubio 15
Cruz 10
Bush 10
46  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton's assistants may have ordered reporters to use certain sentences on: February 10, 2016, 10:49:44 pm
After combing through like 10 million emails this was the worst they could find?
47  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Is the conservative movement collapsing? on: February 10, 2016, 10:48:40 pm
Probably, but let's wait until democrats stop getting murdered in state houses and congressional districts before coming to any conclusions

True, but the Democrats dominated those positions in the 1970s and 1980s, when liberalism was collapsing. A lot of it is just gerrymandering and geographical favoritism (e.g., more widely spread voters).
48  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Is the conservative movement collapsing? on: February 10, 2016, 10:42:00 pm
It took roughly 16 years for small government conservatism to take over the Republican party, from 1964 to 1980. Now after 36 years of nominal control, is it all crashing down after one season? Are the fruits of slouching from the heights of William F. Buckley to the lows of Glenn Beck finally hitting critical mass? Is the American right finally shedding its last coat of intellectual obfuscation and embracing its identity politics-based id?

Just look at the line up of big names the National Review lined up against Trump. They have not had anything truly meaningful to say in a long time. They have lost the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 national elections, and the one they did win largely due to the rally-around effect in the wake of terrorism. Now they may lose their own party. It's the screeching of a movement in fear of the floor falling out from beneath them.
49  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Post NH: Which Democratic candidate would be stronger against Trump? on: February 10, 2016, 09:15:36 pm
Bernie of course. Hillary is vulnerable to Trump running to her left on TPP, the Iraq war, and H-1Bs.

2 of your 3 issues are heavily driven by xenophobia, which is right wing, not left wing. But I agree it's likely popular.

Opposition to TPP is xenophobic? Are you kidding me?

A significant streak of it is, yes. That's why the far right is against it as well. "Selling out" U.S. sovereignty and so on. I often see it on Daily Kos. For example, the "guilt" in this piece comes from the fact that the company in question does business in *China* (shudder).
50  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Post NH: Which Democratic candidate would be stronger against Trump? on: February 10, 2016, 08:56:45 pm
Bernie of course. Hillary is vulnerable to Trump running to her left on TPP, the Iraq war, and H-1Bs.

2 of your 3 issues are heavily driven by xenophobia, which is right wing, not left wing. But I agree it's likely popular.
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