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26  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: CA-Sen: California Quake on: February 26, 2015, 06:53:33 pm

Hasn't she always been a lone wolf in the California Dem party? I doubt she'd get any support.

She won't.

Well, her sister would support her, at least. Smiley
27  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin on: February 26, 2015, 06:04:07 pm
This has been an interesting discussion but it's time to say you don't know what you're talking about, and my clumsy attempts to lead you in the right direction aren't being met by very much success... it shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out where I was going with my questions, if you do a little reading... But that's all for now.
28  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin on: February 26, 2015, 05:52:53 pm
They see it as an easier alternative but it still is a middleman

Why do they see it as an easier alternative?

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Utilizing fair arguments and business acumen.

Why do you need a union to do that? I can think of fair arguments and develop business acumen myself.

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On this we agree but some might say the govt should do more to regulate or enforce how the private sector manages hires, specifically in regard to skill, race, experience, etc.

What does collective bargaining have to do with my race? I don't care about the race of my coworkers. I can collectively bargain together equally with blacks, whites, or hispanics.
29  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin on: February 26, 2015, 05:25:15 pm
Kickstarter should not be illegal - you are using something as an example that has little relevance but adds to my point. If one wants to donate, why not donate directly and bypass middlemen that take part of your money? Would it not be better to donate 100% of the funds to the charity as opposed to say 80 or 90% minus overhead?

Okay, so why does anyone donate to Kickstarter?

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So this example of tantamount to the union one in that people should be allowed to work and do work without being taken for that extra percentage regardless of whether they are union or not. Additionally, collective bargaining, if done correctly and not via coercive tactics would still work and the action done would still be for the good.

How would one do collective bargaining without 'coercive tactics'?

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As for the MS example, no they, and any company that values successful growth, should only employ on merit not if the employee can make enough friends to force his or her prospects. So in that example's regard, why should governments force the employment of promote said employment over someone that is more ably qualified and/or experienced? They should not.

Who said anything about governments enforcing or promoting anything? What Microsoft does should be up to Microsoft. They should be allowed to run their hiring policies how they want with regard to collective bargaining. That's my position.
30  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin on: February 26, 2015, 05:07:50 pm
It's Right to Work laws that tie the hands of companies. They prohibit companies from entering into agreements they might otherwise enter into.

Unions have nothing to do with assemblies of speech. The purpose of a union is to equalize the bargaining power of employees with that of employers. You or I or anyone is free to, for example, apply for a job at Microsoft, but we would be one individual negotiating for his sole income against a multi-billion dollar corporation, a negotiating disadvantage. If all the employees of Microsoft could organize, just as Microsoft itself is organized, then it would be two equally balanced entities negotiating a single contract, rather than thousands of very unequal entities negotiating thousands of contracts. What "organization" means is a way to overcome the collective action problem. This is inseparable from enforcing that all employees must be members of the union. In other words, this is the whole point of the union.

If you want a Right to Work law, I want a Right to Donate law. The website Kickstarter is in gross violation of the Right to Donate. They allow people to set up projects that I can only donate to, if I pay Kickstarter a fee and so do all the other donors. I can only donate to these projects through Kickstarter - essentially by signing an enforced agreement with Kickstarter. That should be optional. We're just a group of people who want to peaceably assemble and give away money. Why can't we do that? Kickstarter should be illegal.
31  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Workers get the shaft in Wisconsin on: February 26, 2015, 02:29:49 pm
It sounds like people are jealous that union workers make more and get plum benefits, but instead of that inspiring them to see the benefits of unionization for workers and imagine that they, too, might be able to get better working conditions, their answer is to tear down the union worker. Sad.
32  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: NC Senate considers bill for magistrates to opt-out of SSM marriages on: February 26, 2015, 12:13:23 am
Can straight people refuse to be married by magistrates who refuse to marry same sex couples?
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Why is Secretary of State such a political office? on: February 25, 2015, 08:30:18 pm
Because of the three branches of government, the responsibility for foreign affairs falls by far most heavily on the presidency. It is 1/2 of the job of the presidency, and arguably 1/2 of the job of government.
34  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sorry, But Clinton’s Inevitability Is Not a Problem on: February 25, 2015, 08:11:31 pm
I think you're right IceSpear. Journalists are under a lot of pressure to keep their profession alive by getting as many "clicks" as possible... the best argument for a competitive primary on both sides of the aisle may be that it provides a sort of stimulus for those in the political writing field Tongue Or, they could make like Nate Silver and find something else to talk about at downtime.
35  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sorry, But Clinton’s Inevitability Is Not a Problem on: February 25, 2015, 07:51:54 pm
Mister Mets does bring up a good point though. Competitive primaries can be damaging-- just look at Romney '12. His opponents made personal attacks on him that reinforced Democratic narratives. People in his campaign made gaffes - such as his advisor's "etch a sketch" remark. His party's money and energy was wasted in intercene warfare. He lost his moderate image after pandering to tea parties. And his campaign lost months of organizing time for the GE-- while the Obama campaign started building up its infrastructure in key states in summer 2011, Romney couldn't focus on it until nearly a year later. As a result, his ground game suffered. The GOP has certainly concluded that having a nominee sooner rather than later would be a good thing.
36  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Ground Troops on: February 25, 2015, 05:21:23 pm
I would let a million Iraqi and Syrian women and children be raped, tortured and burned alive before I consented to a single drop of American blood being shed there.

Don't worry man, I'm an American and I would volunteer a drop of my blood in that case. :/
37  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is human life sacred? on: February 25, 2015, 05:02:01 pm
It's sacred in that causing an unwanted death is generally the worst harm possible, yes. Gun nuts that are like "he was gonna steal my wallet so I shot him! yeearrgghh justice!" my reaction is no... still a tragedy.
38  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls / Re: IA-Quinnipiac: Walker 25% Paul 13% Carson 11% Huckabee 11% Bush 10% Cruz 5% on: February 25, 2015, 02:45:55 pm
Lol at making predictions 10 months out in a competitive race.
39  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sorry, But Clinton’s Inevitability Is Not a Problem on: February 25, 2015, 02:41:26 pm
Whoever can boost the bottom of the ticket (Senate, House, Governors) the best is best.

Don't forget state legislatures. Smiley
40  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sorry, But Clinton’s Inevitability Is Not a Problem on: February 25, 2015, 02:33:22 pm
I'm not a libertarian, but I do have a problem with the degree to which Hillary's "inevitability" limits debate within the Democratic Party, particularly over issues like foreign policy (where Hillary is virtually indistinguishable from John McCain). I also find it disturbing that so much of the vitrol from 2008 has just gone down the memory hole and Obama supporters have in a sense learned to love big brother.

Hillary Clinton initiated the Iran talks. John McCain opposes them.

Also, 2008 hasn't been forgotten. People remember how Hillary gave a full throated endorsement of Obama and was a team player at SoS for 4 years after her bitter defeat, and that has built up additional goodwill for her.
41  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL: Debbie Wasserman Schultz considering Senate run in 2016 on: February 24, 2015, 11:29:10 pm
Beet, you can argue until you're blue in the face but it won't change reality. The reality is, Debbie is a very polarizing, divisive and controversial person within her own party. It's not just Atlas Forum, she has problems with the liberal base (fact), with some donors (fact) and Obama and his machine did not like her at all (also fact). She has no appeal to independent voters (fact). The Florida senate race will already be an uphill race no matter what. You can support her but cool people who don't like useless losers will obviously support Murphy, who has proven to be a good and formidable candidate for a state party that has no bench. Nothing you argue will change the reality on how Debbie Wasserman Schultz is viewed. It's time for you to wake up and smell the coffee.

This is hilarious, because the main ones presenting actual facts in this thread have been myself and IceSpear. You've been throwing out a ton of conjectures and asserting they're facts. You think you have a reality-based assertion that DWS has significant problems with the base? Ok, where's your source? And don't cite Daily Kos/blogs or her popularity on here because we all know if these represented "the base", Hillary would be doomed for the nomination. In the latest PPP poll, she wins those who say they are "very liberal" 79-17, versus 71-17 for Murphy (fact)< see what I did there? The same goes for your other assertions- where are your numbers? If she can't fundraise, then of course this is all a moot point, but somehow I doubt it. She's polling just 4 points behind the incumbent Senator with only 60% name recognition. Think she has no room to grow? How could you prove that?

All politics aside, DWS seems like a very cool woman. Have you seen her Facebook page? How can anyone married to a guy like that for 24 years be bad? I mean, I was lukewarm on DWS until all these nasty, mean-girls/petty gossip articles started coming out about her. It's pathetic how D.C. is basically an aggrandized version of high school, and the so called politically aware lap it up. Anyway, the more I researched her, the more I liked her, especially vs. Murphy. I don't think she'll let the haters get to her though, cause anyone with a family like that has something to be happy about. Smiley
42  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Cuomo refuses to condemn Giuliani's Obama comments on: February 24, 2015, 06:15:17 pm
Am I the only one who thinks a lot of Atlas forum outrage over Cuomo is manufactured?I think people are just trying to find reasons to hate him, to the point where they attack him over making an average comment. I really don't get it. I realize Atlas forum has its spastic outbursts over little things that nobody else cares about, but it just doesn't make much sense.

I've always thought it was a running gag on here. Some of the people he's "lost" to in the "Cuomo vs..." series has made it clear its a joke.
43  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Historic U.S.-Iran nuclear deal could be taking shape on: February 24, 2015, 02:55:18 pm
Neither had nukes, but both had a nuclear program in the 1970s and 80s, and in Libya's case lasted until 2003.
44  General Politics / Individual Politics / Andrew Cuomo vs. Debbie Wasserman Schultz on: February 24, 2015, 02:05:02 pm
This should be fun...
45  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of Iggy Azalea on: February 24, 2015, 01:44:53 pm
The trouble with it is as a concept is that unless you are being really careful there's a risk that you start heading back into a previous and rather less enlightened era of cultural criticism; the idea that certain forms of culture are entirely the property of certain peoples (and may actually be innate to them on some level), that culture can be 'polluted' by outsiders and so on. It's not a very long journey from there to Das Judenthum in der Musik, and it should be noted that there are stations further down the line than that...

Right, this is why I've always been firmly critical of the phrase 'cultural appropriation'. It gets thrown around for everything from stereotyping to whitewashing to... this. Even if one were to completely throw out the idea of cultural appropriation though, one can see why Iggy's success upsets people.
46  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of Iggy Azalea on: February 24, 2015, 11:16:23 am
This is one of the weirdest threads in quite awhile. I don't think I've seen this many strawmen or bizarre arguments in a long time and it's not even over something important or relevant. The most weird being the idea that SJWs are fans of Eminem, WTF? Not to mention Eminem ceased being relevant long before SJWs were even a thing.

No one said SJWs are fans of Eminem... but a number of news articles appeared saying that SJWs on Twitter were celebrating when Eminem won a grammy that Iggy Azalea was expected to win. Granted, they were more celebrating Iggy's loss than Eminem's win, but the idea that either one of them is much better than the other is pretty suspect, IMO. I would hardly say a guy who's still winning awards and putting out hit songs is irrelevant.

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But for the original topic, I'll just say some dumb Australian white girl rapping in a fake accent is something I'll rank pretty damn low on my list of priorities.

If it's so low on your list of priorities, then why do you care so much? Sawx and R2D2 have done a pretty good job in this thread explaining why people dislike her... It's infuriating for black women when a white woman comes along and does the exact same thing (not just being in the rap genre, but all of the straight up imitation like Sawx said) with less talent and then gets massively rewarded for it in a way they never do. If I were a black woman, it would be impossible to even think about her without being reminded of racism...
47  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Historic U.S.-Iran nuclear deal could be taking shape on: February 24, 2015, 10:31:48 am
States without nukes, that once had nukes or nuclear programs but gave them up through diplomacy:

Pre-2003 Iraq
Pre-2011 Libya
Pre-2014 Ukraine

States with nukes, that refused to give them up through diplomacy:

North Korea

So if you're a rogue state, which would you rather be?
48  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL: Debbie Wasserman Schultz considering Senate run in 2016 on: February 24, 2015, 10:12:33 am
Talk about that - why go for someone who's basically openly using this race as her Plan B when you can have someone who's using this as their Plan A?

It sounds like Senate is DWS's Plan A now.
49  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL: Debbie Wasserman Schultz considering Senate run in 2016 on: February 24, 2015, 10:11:41 am
Beet, I'd like to tell you that;
a) Wasserman-Schultz cannot win a Senate race in Florida because she's going to be revealed as the political opportunist she is (compared to the normal politician)

Lol. I didn't know there was a measuring stick for how "opportunist" a politician was allowed to be. In any case, I would consider starting one's political career by seeing an opportunity to switch parties to be the definition of opportunism. Patrick Murphy's political career wouldn't exist without it.

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b) Wasserman-Schultz has done much more to be called a bad Democrat than Murphy.

Wasserman Schultz has a different sense of herself. According to people who spoke with her, when she sensed Obama was considering replacing her as chair in 2013, she began to line up supporters to suggest the move was both anti-woman and anti-Semitic. Under fire last fall for her leadership, she took Obama’s decision not to remove her then as evidence of renewed strength and said she was confident no one could get her out of the DNC before her term is over at the beginning of 2017, according to sources who’ve spoken with her. She’s also been known to joke around the office about how having a vacation home in New Hampshire might one day be helpful in a presidential run.

I've already addressed this upthread.

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Oh and LMAO at you using SHARKTANK as a valid resource

None of the links you provided actually contain any factual inaccuracies within the articles themselves. Walker, Biden, and Harf really did make the quotes attributed to them. The poll really did show most Hispanics supporting Obama's policy on Cuba. The Co-Ops under the Affordable Care Act really are struggling. Obama really did say we should remember and abhor the Crusades at the National Prayer Breakfast. I'm not sure what your point is? Just because a news source is conservative, doesn't mean that it's not a legitimate source.

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Oh, and lets talk about how she's never talked to the heads of the DSCC or this:

Wasserman Schultz has a fraught relationship with some Washington Democrats.
For years, anonymous Democrats in Congress, the DNC and Obama’s election machine have trashed the sometimes-acerbic congresswoman in publications like POLITICO and BuzzFeed.
“Nancy Pelosi views Debbie as a threat,” said one Democratic politician familiar with the dynamics in the U.S. House. “So perhaps they’ll all pitch in together to get her out of the DNC and out of the House and into the Senate where no one can really do anything.”

So she's not liked by Nancy Pelosi because the latter views her as a competitor? Who cares? Pelosi's getting up there in age and she isn't going to be leader forever. She's going to have to accept competition from younger Dems. In any case, it sounds like DWS for Senate would make her and the rest of the D.C. crowd happy.

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Or how about how she's in such poor relationship with Democratic leadership that the White House wants to replace her?

This story is 6 months old, and the White House denied it. If they really wanted her out, they could have her out in the heartbeat. See my lengthier address of this story at the time here.

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Or, once again, how she's a blatant opportunist in comparison to the average politician:
 
“We say the big ‘D’ is for Democratic,” one member joked to others at the House Democratic retreat on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in February, according to one of the members. “For her, the big ‘D’ is always for Debbie.”

Errr... how is it DWS's fault if other members want to make nasty jokes against her? We get it, some people in the insider House/D.C. crowd doesn't like her. Why should we care? Do you think those people care about you and me? They're an elitist power club, the opposite of the voice of the broad masses. Maybe she won't play their corrupt games. More pertinently, do voters care? I don't think so.

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Or let's talk about some of her questionable statements.
"There's no question that there's significant concern in the Jewish community over the percentage of people who are choosing not to marry Jews," said Ira M. Sheskin, of Cooper City, a University of Miami geography professor and director of the university's Jewish Demography Project. "Jews are constantly falling in love with non-Jews and marrying them."

Many marriages between Jews and non-Jews, including some in his own family, are good marriages, Sheskin said. But, he added, "from the point of view of a community that wants to see itself around in the next 100 years, it's not a good trend."

Lol. You just copied and pasted a couple paragraphs from that article without even bothering to read it, didn't you? You've just quoted a geography professor, not DWS. So DWS said that intermarriage was a problem for the long term future of Jewish identity in the U.S. and she's right. She's merely referring to a demographic issue American Jews have discussed for a long time.

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Thinking that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz will somehow be the savior of the Florida Democratic Party is asanine. Let's look at how well her leadership has helped Democrats nationally.

I'm well aware of the results of the 2014 elections. Atlas and wikipedia are available to me as well. Smiley In any case, I've already addressed DWS's tenure as chair in this thread.

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The fact of the matter is that you're wrong that she's a stronger candidate than Murphy, even if he was a Republican,

And where's your source for that "fact"? Or did you just pull it out of thin air?

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I fail to see what my opinion of Hillary Clinton has to do with this. The question was, what reasons might Hillary have not to run. I listed some reasons. How this has any bearing on DWS hasn't been elucidated by you, however.

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In fact, many politicians used to be members of the opposite party, just like how Clinton was a diehard Republican, Reagan was a Democrat.

Hillary switched parties over 30 years before even considering running for elective office. Reagan switched parties over the course of nearly 20 years before running for governor in 1966. After both of their switches, they acted like members of their adopted parties and generally took positions supporting their adopted parties' positions. Murphy switched parties four months before running for office himself, and after switching still acted like a member of his original party on crucial votes, as well as tried to switch back surreptitiously. His "switch" is a transparent instrument of convenience to advance his personal ambitions.

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As a Floridian, I think I'd know a bit more about the political climate here than some D.C. Democrat, and Wasserman-Schultz will prove to be an embarrassment to the national Democratic Party and the Florida Democratic Party, the latter of which says a lot about her qualities as a candidate.

This is an ad homineim argument. Just because I have a D.C. avatar and you have a Florida avatar, it doesn't mean you can avoid making valid arguments or that I'm not entitled to make arguments disagreeing with you. Besides, it's not like you Florida Democrats have been handling things very well. Maybe you need an outsider like me to whip you guys into shape. Smiley

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Murphy's the only chance Democrats have of winning this seat, and if Democrats here don't run him, this seat will continue to stay in Republican control, and I'm pretty sure neither of us want that.

If that's the case, it looks like it'll continue to stay in Republican control regardless.
50  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL: Debbie Wasserman Schultz considering Senate run in 2016 on: February 23, 2015, 11:52:33 pm
Goodness gracious Flo, I have to get up in seven hours for work. You guys are acting like your the only ones who read Politico. Smiley If you scroll up thread, I'm pretty sure you'll find that all those accusations you linked to have already been brought up here and I've already responded to all of them. You're free to respond to my responses, but I may not respond to you until tomorrow. I'm also glad that you know how to link to Atlas maps and my previous posts, and YouTube, and discovered that Reagan was a Democrat in the 30s, as well as to look at my avatar. All revelations.Hey, I'm a DC Democrat! Smiley (serious responses tomorrow).
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