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26  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Do you want to punch Trump in the face? on: June 20, 2016, 12:26:47 am
I don't support violence. This year has put tremendous strains on the American political system. It'll be one miracle if democracy even holds together, and another if Trump loses.
27  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sen. Jeff Merkley booed after urging Democrats to unite behind Clinton. on: June 20, 2016, 12:24:13 am
Oregonians already support a $15/hr Minimum Wage/ Single Payer/ Gvt funded Pre-K/ legalized marijuana/ Major Federal policies changes in Global Warming and Environmental Regulations.

I support all of that, but I still voted for Clinton because I think she'd be a far better president. But my voice doesn't matter. Only Sanders' supporters voices matter.
28  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will the religious left become more important than the religious right? on: June 19, 2016, 10:23:32 pm
Hopefully. You can be religious and pro-choice, as black Democrats overwhelmingly prove. Even the Catholic church changed its position on an issue the Bible never mentions, as late as the 19th century. On the vast majority of common sense issues, Christians and Buddhists at least should be progressive.
29  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sen. Jeff Merkley booed after urging Democrats to unite behind Clinton. on: June 19, 2016, 10:12:41 pm
The only thing that Clinton can do to unify the party is to concede the nomination to Sanders, at this point. Her supporters need Trump to lose more than his do. I'm all in favor of it. She'll go out as a saint, and proved all the accusations about her wrong, the Sanders people will be happy, and we can all move on.
30  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Congressional Black Caucus opposes Sanders' requests on: June 19, 2016, 09:06:25 pm
The problem with minority strength in the primaries is that it just feeds into national political polarization by race, which is counterproductive. The GOP's goal is to turn the entire country into Alabama, and that can't be allowed to happen if the left is going to have a chance to win. If that means diluting minority voting strength in primaries that's okay.
31  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Congressional Black Caucus opposes Sanders' requests on: June 19, 2016, 08:56:07 pm
I'd like to see the party be willing to side with Sanders on this one, but even if the party defied the CBC and adopted Sanders' requests, I'm not sure it would placate him or his remaining supporters. It takes two to deal.
32  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will Donald Trump still be a candidate for president by mid-July? on: June 18, 2016, 02:54:30 pm
I wonder what the forum's reaction would be if Trump was actually paid $150 million by Republican investors and gave a televised speech saying, "Just kidding guys, Hillary and I are best buds, and she put me up to this on a lark. We never thought I'd make it this far! Boy, Republicans sure are stupid! I endorse Hillary Rodham Clinton as our next president. After all, the economy does better under Democrats. Bye."
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Will Donald Trump still be a candidate for president by mid-July? on: June 18, 2016, 02:42:39 pm
The speed at which his campaign is collapsing is just breathtaking. Just in the past day or so, it's been known that

1) Major sponsors are pulling out of the RNC
2) Over 300 delegates are in a secret Facebook page to dump Trump, and there's a major call about it Sunday night
3) Even Trump's diehard supporters like Duncan Hunter are saying mixed things about him
4) He's offered to drop out for $150 million

The Big Mo' is against him. Of course, it will be no surprise. He's been a joke from the beginning, the only surprising thing is how it's going down.
34  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: "Republicans consider convention challenge to Trump" megathread on: June 18, 2016, 09:28:04 am
A part of me has always been convinced that the GOP would not allow Trump to win and we'd see a contested convention, but I temporarily wavered on that conviction last month. What I don't understand though is why they couldn't just unify behind someone like Rubio early in the primaries. Or heck, at the very least, encourage Cruz to keep running his quixotic campaign. My guess is they knew Cruz would lose and it would just show that "their horse" couldn't win. But now they really have to change rules midstream and make their primary voters look like idiots.
35  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should Sanders be given a speaking slot at the DNC if he refuses to endorse on: June 17, 2016, 07:00:38 pm
Provided that every reasonable accommodation, and even above and beyond what he deserves (which is a lot) has been made for him, if he still refuses to endorse Hillary, unfortunately I'd have to say no. It'll hurt in the GE. But it's better to have a unified voice than "a house divided." Besides, I can't remember the last time a person was given a major convention speaking slot who used their speech mainly to advertise their own causes, but wouldn't endorse the nominee. Ted Kennedy 1980?

Technically, if he forces a rollcall vote on nomination, he will be able to do a speech before the vote.

If he does this and tries to make a pitch for himself, he should be booed offstage.
36  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Should Sanders be given a speaking slot at the DNC if he refuses to endorse on: June 17, 2016, 06:43:27 pm
Provided that every reasonable accommodation, and even above and beyond what he deserves (which is a lot) has been made for him, if he still refuses to endorse Hillary, unfortunately I'd have to say no. It'll hurt in the GE. But it's better to have a unified voice than "a house divided." Besides, I can't remember the last time a person was given a major convention speaking slot who used their speech mainly to advertise their own causes, but wouldn't endorse the nominee. Ted Kennedy 1980?
37  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Massive FF cashier in Virginia on: June 17, 2016, 05:38:25 pm
This is so stupid.

Ironically I saw a tourist in a MAGA shirt in the middle of a crowded 90% black McDonald's in downtown DC last weekend. Nobody bothered him.
38  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Hack site Vox fails to understand the depths of Sanders' misogyny on: June 17, 2016, 05:07:05 pm
Yeah, that's what I don't get. He wants leverage okay, he deserves leverage, given how well he did. But leverage for what? and whatever it is, why can't his and Clinton's campaign just negotiate it out now? The longer this division is, the harder it'll be to work together.
39  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Hack site Vox fails to understand the depths of Sanders' misogyny on: June 17, 2016, 04:46:00 pm
Even if this logic is right, there's still the matter of basic respect for the outcome of the democratic process that he's ignoring.

He doesn't lose leverage just because he acknowledges that Hillary got more votes and the winner of the most votes should get the nomination - his words for the whole rest of the campaign still matter. Not just until the convention, but all the way to November.

He could have reached an agreement with her on June 8, and then withdrawn his cooperation at any time if she broke the agreement.

He's losing leverage now because with every day that goes by, his ability to deliver value for the GE declines.

Irregardless, this was a calculation by him and his people a long time ago, that Clinton would have no choice but to ignore him and leave him alone, as he takes it to the convention, because we're afraid of alienating his supporters. They know they have the gun to our head, because we need to win this thing. It's the Judgement of Solomon all over again, only this time the winner plays the role of the true mother. It is what it is...
40  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Repeal of Taft-Hartley. on: June 17, 2016, 03:47:45 pm
Why didn't Sanders make this a bigger part of his campaign? Was it a bridge too far, even for him? It's clear in retrospect this bill was the end of the American labor movement. Since Truman's veto, labor has had hopes of repealing or modifying this bill with every Democratic incoming wave (1949, 1965, 1977, 1993, and even 2009 with EFCA). Each time their ambitions become smaller. Each time even those smaller ambitions are nonetheless frustrated as other issues have taken precedence (Housing, Voting Rights, Energy, Health Care, and Health Care again). Each time labor goes into a multi-decade spiral of decline afterwards. I really doubt the young, idealistic college students of today would be inspired by the intricacies of labor organizing. After all, most of them have never been in the labor force. Has the American left totally given up on the idea of amending the NLRA to make it easier to unionize again?
41  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump would host Kim Jong Un in US on: June 17, 2016, 11:27:54 am
He does realize that Obama is perfectly willing to speak to Kim Jong Un right? It's Kim Jong Un that won't negotiate over his nukes.
42  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: WI- Marquette Law Poll: Clinton +9 on: June 15, 2016, 07:20:03 pm
Sanders is tanking Clinton's numbers by holding onto his die hards, whereas in the other scenario, people are assuming Clinton endorsed him like she did Obama.
43  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why is Clinton always held to a higher standard? on: June 15, 2016, 07:02:40 pm
Quote
And I fail to see why having a fair debate at the convention about the future of the party and the primary system somehow fails to acknowledge the winner. No one is saying change the rules for this year. No one except Berniebros is saying refuse to nominate Hillary. No one except Berniebros is saying that Bernie shouldn't get behind Hillary, and odds are he will, even if only halfheartedly. All that is being said is let's talk things over and reach some fair compromises for 2024.

I'm all for having a debate at the convention, wulfric. I'm all for talking things over and reaching some fair compromises. I'm all for Bernie exerting his radical ideas. I'm all for him having influence. Heck, he got 12.5 million votes. He deserves a lot of influence. He deserves a lot of respect.

I just don't understand why he can't acknowledge that she's won. You can. Everyone else can. I even see people on r/s4p admitting they have no case. So why can't Bernie?
44  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Bernie Sanders on: June 15, 2016, 05:54:43 pm
Quote
No. The rules for this year are the rules for this year.

I just wish he would acknowledge that. Like, either say he still wants the nomination, or he doesn't. Yes or No. I don't see why it has to be so complicated.
45  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Bernie Sanders on: June 15, 2016, 05:48:08 pm
Do you think he should be the nominee, wulfric?
46  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why is Clinton always held to a higher standard? on: June 15, 2016, 02:22:01 pm
She dropped out and endorsed Obama days after he clinched the nomination. Had she not, the fury would have been devastating. Meanwhile, Bernie gets to take his campaign to the convention, even though he lost in a landslide.

We constantly have a higher bar to jump over than the other guy.

"We" ?

Clinton supporters.

Look, I agree with getting rid of superdelegates 100%. I agree with tuition-free colleges, universal health care, and open borders. Heck, I'll agree to open primaries, even though I'm against the merits. I'll agree to every single thing on Bernie's list. He can personally write the platform for all I care.

But the winner of the process deserves to be acknowledged as a the winner. Not just for them, but mainly for the 30 million people who participated. Otherwise, what's the point of democracy? What's the point of reforming the process if the process decides nothing, to begin with? That's like saying "We have to reform the rules of the game to make it fair*"

* The loser of the game actually wins.
47  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why is Clinton always held to a higher standard? on: June 15, 2016, 02:02:25 pm
His list of changes are just a list of things that would have helped him in the primary. Basically he's a sore loser asking the party to admit that his loss was unjust as a condition of him admitting that he lost in the first place. It's disrespectful to not only Hillary, but the process he chose to participate in and the voters whose support he campaigned for, who did not choose him.
48  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why is Clinton always held to a higher standard? on: June 15, 2016, 01:50:46 pm
Why does he want to ride it out, though? What does he gain? Also, who does want to be the nominee? If it's not Hillary, what's his justification for overturning the will of the voters? He can't even answer the most basic question. His position is incoherent.

The consensus is that the '08 primary was more beneficial than detrimental, but (1) that's based on the fact that Clinton conceded and gave Obama a full-throated endorsement soon after he clinched.. The exact point is, Bernie is denying that '08 dynamic that worked so well then. (2) It's largely based on the fact that the Democrats won big in '08. But if you think about, they should have won big, given the economic meltdown and the approval ratings of Bush at the time.

'08 was a much bigger slam dunk than this year will likely be. I'm not at all convinced Trump is as weak a candidate as McCain '08. At the very least, it's not a risk worth taking. Now Hillary's going to have to spend time between now and then coddling Bernie's sensitivities, instead of focusing fully on Trump.

Also, the opinion of most political scientists is that while contested conventions are not necessarily harmful for the party out of power (like the Dems in '08), they are for the party in power.
49  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump: No guns for people on the terrorist watch list on: June 15, 2016, 12:54:35 pm
I'm a little surprised the attacks haven't helped Trump more, tbh. Some in the LGBT community now have a reason to support him. And now he's taken away one of the Dems' best talking points. Maybe we'll see him rise in the polls in the next couple of weeks.
50  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why is Clinton always held to a higher standard? on: June 15, 2016, 11:30:42 am
I don't even want to talk about sexism because that's a distraction. Look, even if you concede that Bernie is right about everything -- the platform, the process, every single thing -- he still has either won the primary or he didn't. Since he didn't, I don't see why he can't just acknowledge that. If he still wants to be nominee, that's his right, but he should say that too. His refusal to state whether he wants to be the nominee or not, or even who he thinks the nominee should be, is absurd. And that's even before the absurd logic of wanting to get rid of superdelegates and wanting to win by superdelegates at the same time. I don't see what he loses by conceding. It shows he has a shred of integrity and allows us to discuss actual issues that he claims to want to raise, rather than who the nominee is.

The only way I can see it is the Clinton campaign is bending over backwards to give him space. Which is fine, but it's still absurd, IMO. He's been mathematically eliminated from the nomination, and Hillary has clinched. Cruz conceded well before Trump clinched, even though there were huge concerns about Trump's nomination within the GOP to a greater extent than Hillary.
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