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26  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Vienna: 9 Iraqi "refugees" on trial for brutally raping a young woman for hours on: February 22, 2017, 06:35:09 pm
Alt Righters love Milo and Roosh but hate Muslims for some reason.
27  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Lefties and left-of-center people: Who do you support in the French election? on: February 22, 2017, 06:30:53 pm
1) Hamon
2) Melehcon



Better than the horribles and the jokers) Macron
basically equal in horribleness) Fillon and Le Pen

gun to my head if its a Fillon and Le Pen run-off, I may have to vote Le Pen because she'd basically be powerless since I doubt National Front has a chance of gaining a substantial coalition in government.

That's what they said about Trump.

are you illiterate?

how about literally the words right next to those words?

Trump has a major political party with control of every lever of power under his control.

the situation could not be more different in the case of National Front.

Thanks for responding: When I was phone banking during the election, I had a progressive Democrat tell me she was voting for Trump because the Congressional Republicans would never listen to him. Remember, back then people thought Ryan would be 100% anti-Trump and that meant the presidency was powerless.
28  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump administration to revoke federal protections for transgender students on: February 22, 2017, 06:27:12 pm
Trump returning to the policy of the first term of Obama on this is not really surprising, if true.

Yeah, the last 5 years has seen American social policy move left very quickly, and now that the leftward movement is slowing down people think that the religious right has got their way or something.

If Trump's immigration EO's go through (which it looks like they will), our social policy on that front will be the most conservative it has been in decades.
29  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Lefties and left-of-center people: Who do you support in the French election? on: February 22, 2017, 06:17:09 pm
1) Hamon
2) Melehcon



Better than the horribles and the jokers) Macron
basically equal in horribleness) Fillon and Le Pen

gun to my head if its a Fillon and Le Pen run-off, I may have to vote Le Pen because she'd basically be powerless since I doubt National Front has a chance of gaining a substantial coalition in government.

That's what they said about Trump.
30  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Senior White House officials leaking embarrassing stories about Trump's temperament on: February 22, 2017, 06:12:46 pm
Trump reminds me of the Joe Pesci character in Goodfellas.
31  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Emails detail EPA head’s close ties to fossil fuel industry on: February 22, 2017, 06:07:16 pm
The wolf in charge of the hen house?

Quote
The emails show that Pruitt and his office were in touch with a network of ultra-conservative groups, many of which in the past have received backing from billionaire brothers Charles G. and David H. Koch, the libertarian owners of Koch Industries, a major oil company. The documents detail not only how Pruitt’s office at times coordinated with industry officials to fight unwanted regulations from Washington, but also how he was a highly sought-after speaker at conferences and other gatherings for groups such as the American Legislative Exchange Council, which works with corporate interests and state legislators to shape key pieces of legislation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/02/22/oklahoma-attorney-generals-office-releases-7500-pages-of-emails-between-scott-pruitt-and-fossil-fuel-industry/
32  General Politics / Individual Politics / Vogue vs. Teen Vogue on: February 22, 2017, 05:55:13 pm
Teen Vogue.
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Challenge: Jim Webb secures the Democratic nomination. on: February 22, 2017, 04:47:31 pm
1. Trump jumps out to prohibitive favorite to win the GOP nod by the time of the Iowa caucus, and there is no talk of a contested convention or anything like that. It's clear he will be the nominee.

2. The media treats Trump as a legitimate candidate who could consolidate the white vote. They make it clear that being a Trump supporter is a valid choice that doesn't make you a bad person. As a result, his supporters come out of the woodwork and he has big early leads in Ohio, Iowa and Florida while Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Minnesota are toss ups. It's also clear that Trump intends to fulfill his campaign pledges of elected.

3. Webb argues that he's the only candidate who can reliably beat Trump. He runs on all the same positions he took in the real TL, except he's consistently dovish and used Vietnam as an example of why America must be very cautious about wars. He has polls showing he consistently beats Trump, while Clinton, Sanders, and O'Malley trail.

4. The other three candidates split the liberal vote, and Clinton is relegated to only the black vote. Webb does well in IA and SC, wins big in TX, AR, TN on Super Tuesday. He then wins MI, FL, OH and MO. He then wins AZ, WI, and finally puts away his opponents with a win in NY.
34  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Board Republicans - do you consider this political viewpoint "deplorable?" on: February 22, 2017, 04:20:34 pm
The legitimate point is that white wealth is built on inheritance.

But frankly it's boring compared to the incivility and hate that is regularly tossed around ever since the Internet started, and what that says about people.

How was her point related to the original article in any way?

Because the author triggered conservatives in remarks elsewhere online when he said a professor didn't acknowledge white privilege.
35  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Board Republicans - do you consider this political viewpoint "deplorable?" on: February 22, 2017, 04:14:50 pm
The legitimate point is that white wealth is built on inheritance.

But frankly it's boring compared to the incivility and hate that is regularly tossed around ever since the Internet started, and what that says about people.
36  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: WSJ: Sanders Loyalists Are Taking Over the Democratic Party State by State on: February 22, 2017, 03:09:42 pm
So they've either compromised, or only taken over blue states, with the exception of Nebraska. California, Hawaii and Washington already have insanely progressive Democratic parties. Wake me up if the California Democrats try partisan redistricting, repealing Prop 13, repealing top-2 primaries, or does anything actually interesting.
Prop 13 won't go away unless there's a major crisis and top two primaries basically ensure Democratic dominance at the statewide level.

Partisan redistricting is awful and hypocritical.

So basically Sanders loyalists are no different than the status quo.
37  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The Next DNC Chair: Ray Buckley drops out, endorses Ellison on: February 22, 2017, 02:33:21 pm
It's 447 elites that made their chops mostly years ago. Taking this party back for the people is going to take a long time.
38  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Trump's claims his team didn't contact Russia in campaign contradict officials on: February 22, 2017, 02:28:04 pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-russia-michael-flynn-2016-election-campaign-us-security-services-a7592526.html
39  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump administration to revoke federal protections for transgender students on: February 22, 2017, 02:26:30 pm
How many times has this been reported on? It's a draft document. The WH M.O. is to leak draft documents that they never pull the trigger on, stonewall reporters' emails, and then come out and deny it after the fact so they can call "fake news" when it's reported about.
40  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Mika Brzezinski says the media's job is to "control exactly what people think" on: February 22, 2017, 12:45:35 pm
The media in this country have always had tremendous power but since the 1970s they have used it to great negative effect.
41  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: WSJ: Sanders Loyalists Are Taking Over the Democratic Party State by State on: February 22, 2017, 12:29:41 pm
So they've either compromised, or only taken over blue states, with the exception of Nebraska. California, Hawaii and Washington already have insanely progressive Democratic parties. Wake me up if the California Democrats try partisan redistricting, repealing Prop 13, repealing top-2 primaries, or does anything actually interesting.
42  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: NBC/SurveyMonkey: Most Americans (but not young Repubs) think Russia unfriendly on: February 22, 2017, 11:16:05 am
In same the poll, 51% consider China at least friendly as well

Other notable results:
58% say immigration helps more than hurts
56% oppose the Wall
80% say NATO is good
68% do not want Roe v Wade overturned
66% are worried about a major war
61% favor the United Nations
Only 22% say repeal "all" of the Affordable Care Act

Opinion on Muslim ban is split 50%-47% in favor
43  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What is the left wing equivalent to Breitbart? on: February 22, 2017, 10:45:54 am
Anyway, C-SPAN or Reader's Digest would be my choice.
44  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Make a case for your faith (or philosophy) on: February 22, 2017, 10:26:54 am
I have made the leap of faith that Jesus Christ was the son of God, who he sent down to earth to perform miracles, died for the sins of humanity, and then was miraculously resurrected. I try to live by the two greatest commandments, to love God with everything I am and to love my "neighbor" as myself, which means to love my fellow man and adopt a humanistic outlook, while not being shy that my faith in God is behind such an outlook.

My outlook has several advantages: (1) It is wholistic and comprehensive. Based on a few simple first principles, I can search my views and have a compass to guide me no matter what the facts are. (2) It applies in both the political, personal, and interpersonal realms. (3) It answers the question, "what is the meaning of life"? (4) It means no man is my implacable enemy always. (5) It guarantees fairness and justice for all. I would encourage everyone to adopt my outlook, and let us build a more humane and just world together that dares to imagine the existence of a Higher being!

What of the morality of you using Jesus as savior?

Please view this clip and opine on the quote at the bottom.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

I like this man. But why his picture of traditional resurrection story so dark? The point of the story is the resurrection, not the sacrifice. Jesus did not permanently die. As far as guilt, does it not merely refer to the notion that people are not inherently good? The beauty of the story is that it invests people who are not inherently good with the authority of a being that is.

My opinion of the quote at the bottom is that I do consent to it, because it was already given willingly before I consented. The harm was already inflicted, and to refuse would be to make it a waste, and disrespectful. I am in prison for theft, and an innocent boy takes pity of me and spends a day to bring me a bucket of water from a stream. Do I refuse? I agree that the original sin rhetoric may be a bit overplayed.


Morals are principles that are not usually flexible or based on the notion of past or present.
If it is immoral to take advantage of an innocent victim for past behavior, it is just as immoral for present behavior.

So let's bring it to the present instead of a past myth that likely never happened.

Human sacrifice is evil and God/Yahweh demanding one and Jesus accepting one is evil. Jesus accepted the premise of his sacrifice being somehow just. This is evil.

Those trying to profit from that evil are evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?
If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL

Because you have switched a voluntary situation to an involuntary one. A voluntary sacrifice is not evil, it is, like faith, an act of will. In this case God's will. Is God's will evil? I think not. It would be wrong to say, although you have sacrificed yourself for me, I deem your sacrifice evil, therefore I will not accept the fruit of it, and therefore render your sacrifice null and void. I accept it because God did it, and out of respect for God's will and gratitude for God's grace.
45  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The Next DNC Chair: Ray Buckley drops out, endorses Ellison on: February 22, 2017, 08:59:48 am
Buttigieg is the best choice. Ellison second.
46  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Was opebo a sort of leftist Milo? on: February 21, 2017, 08:57:13 pm
No, opebo never had a book deal.
47  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Make a case for your faith (or philosophy) on: February 21, 2017, 07:26:55 pm
I have made the leap of faith that Jesus Christ was the son of God, who he sent down to earth to perform miracles, died for the sins of humanity, and then was miraculously resurrected. I try to live by the two greatest commandments, to love God with everything I am and to love my "neighbor" as myself, which means to love my fellow man and adopt a humanistic outlook, while not being shy that my faith in God is behind such an outlook.

My outlook has several advantages: (1) It is wholistic and comprehensive. Based on a few simple first principles, I can search my views and have a compass to guide me no matter what the facts are. (2) It applies in both the political, personal, and interpersonal realms. (3) It answers the question, "what is the meaning of life"? (4) It means no man is my implacable enemy always. (5) It guarantees fairness and justice for all. I would encourage everyone to adopt my outlook, and let us build a more humane and just world together that dares to imagine the existence of a Higher being!

What of the morality of you using Jesus as savior?

Please view this clip and opine on the quote at the bottom.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

I like this man. But why his picture of traditional resurrection story so dark? The point of the story is the resurrection, not the sacrifice. Jesus did not permanently die. As far as guilt, does it not merely refer to the notion that people are not inherently good? The beauty of the story is that it invests people who are not inherently good with the authority of a being that is.

My opinion of the quote at the bottom is that I do consent to it, because it was already given willingly before I consented. The harm was already inflicted, and to refuse would be to make it a waste, and disrespectful. I am in prison for theft, and an innocent boy takes pity of me and spends a day to bring me a bucket of water from a stream. Do I refuse? I agree that the original sin rhetoric may be a bit overplayed.

Quote
Faith in the mere belief that Jesus is God is of that sort, open to anyone to whom sufficient argument presents itself, what is called natural faith. This type of faith is an act of will based on reason. Now, there is a different type of faith that is a specific gift from God, that is called supernatural faith ("supernatural" meaning beyond what is natural).

I am not sure that my faith falls into either category. It is not an act of will based on reason, it is an act of will that consists in disregarding reason. If it is a blind leap, it must be blind because we are necessarily, ultimately blind with respect to God. But neither is it (necessarily) supernatural, it is probably perfectly natural, and can be explained by brain science. Nor is it necessarily a gift from God any more than any other act of will is. Indeed, choice never takes on a more profound meaning than the choice to make the leap of faith. I apologize if this seems absurd, but it is not.
48  General Politics / Individual Politics / Is the media to blame for the rise of Trump? on: February 21, 2017, 05:30:24 pm
Yes, of course. Trump's entire career outside of real estate has been in the media. The media blasted Trump's rallies 24/7 the whole campaign season. They were the pied piper that led liberals down the path of attacking him over his words, rather than what would have really damaged him politically. They hammered Hillary Clinton over her e-mails until there was nothing left of her image but E-Mail. Meanwhile, they successfully painted themselves into a corner of seeming anti-Trump. In reality, they thrive off him. They have turned around entire newspapers, the failing New York Times now has more subscriptions ever thanks to him. They secretly love him. The entire lot of them all-- Trump, the media, the CIA-- bread and circuses. Just bread and circuses. They are all in cahoots at the end.
49  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which pro-Hillary site has less fair coverage of conservatives overall? on: February 21, 2017, 05:09:40 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/hillary-clinton-endorsement.html?_r=0

Quote
Mr. Sanders has scored some rhetorical points against Mrs. Clinton for her longstanding ties to Wall Street, but she has responded well, and it would be comical to watch any of the Republican candidates try to make that case, given that they are all virtually tied to, or actually part of, the business establishment.

If they really wanted to help Hillary, they would have endorsed her opponents to make themselves seem anti-Hillary, and then run a bunch of positive articles about her. Instead they did the opposite.
50  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: If you don't like Quentin Tarintino films are you basically a Nazi? on: February 21, 2017, 05:08:09 pm
Oh yes, because films like Great Wall and Suicide Squad are really setting the bar for American cinema.
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