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May 25, 2017, 03:42:14 am
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News: Cast your Ballot in the 2016 Mock Election

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76  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: local DC news reporting Seth Rich was in contact with wikileaks, family confirms on: May 15, 2017, 11:56:19 pm
Unlike others, I have no double standard here. I find this story interesting.

Evidence
1. Rich was a high level Democratic staffer, in charge of voter access.
2. He fits the demographic profile of a leaker (all the leakers so far have been white men, or in one case, a trans white woman).
3. The night he was killed, he was at a bar that he frequented very regularly, and stayed until 1:30 am.
4. He made calls to his father, a friend, and spoke with his girlfriend for hours.
5. He spent 3 hours walking home when it should have taken 40 minutes, talking to his girlfriend.
6. He was shot 300 feet from his door. As if someone was waiting for him.
7. He was shot in the back. Why would robbers do that?
8. He didn't realize he was shot. Why would he not realize if he was shot in the back?
9. Nothing was taken.
10. Last year, Julian Assange hinted he may have been a source a couple of times.
11. In April, Guccifer 2.0 suggested he was a source.

Needless to say, I would be very surprised if someone at the DNC put a hit on him and coordinated with mayor Bowser to suppress the police investigation. But the story is bizarre.

Countering the conspiracy theory is that Rich was supposed alive and talking for more than an hour afterward. Would he not have connected his contact with wikileaks (if shown) to being shot? Would he not have mentioned it? That would be one hell of a coverup.  

Also, if Rich was the source, where did the two Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear source codes come from, on the DNC servers? Could they have been planted there, and the logs backdated after the fact, to fool cybersecurity investigators?

And what about the Podesta e-mails? Those were clearly cases of phishing. So even if Rich was involved as a "mole", it does not mean the Russians were not involved.
77  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: North Korea-linked Lazarus Group may be behind global cyber attack on: May 15, 2017, 10:40:46 pm
US source code, Russian leak, North Korean implementation. Good teamwork!
78  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 08:17:52 pm
I had to leave for a while after page 11; anything happen since then?
just disgusting personal attacks
79  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: India to surpass China in both population and economy... then what? on: May 15, 2017, 07:51:10 pm
India may surpass China, but it is a long way from it now. Generally speaking, I prefer not to make projections far out into the future. In the 1980s, it was predicted Japan would surpass the US, and in the 1960s, it was predicted the Soviet Union would surpass the US. Neither came about.

India does have the advantage of a soon-to-be larger population, but it's worth noting that India's economy was larger than China's as recently as 1984, so even if it did happen, it would just be a return to form. No one was raving about how great India's economy was in 1984. Both countries potentially surpassing the US in economic size is the far bigger story long-term.
80  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 07:30:03 pm
Why is it that every single new thing that comes up about Trump and/or his administration is immediately dismissed by his supporters?  Is it just them trying to save face, or are they legitimately deranged?

If Hillary had won, and then all of these revelations started coming out of possible Russian collusion and her giving classified info (reportedly more info than even our allies have on the matter), then she would lose my support.  At some point, something has got to give with these people.

if you truly think this board would be as outraged over russia colluding to help hillary win and all other russia stuff being connected to her, then you are crazy.

Uh yes, liberals would never criticize Clinton. Have you heard of a poster called jfern? Also, here is my initial reaction to the OIG report:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=237431.msg5084488#msg5084488
81  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 07:19:46 pm
I mean, the leftists here do like to throw out insults and act intemperately, but then so do some rightists (like ghostmonkey and Bannon's Brigade). As I've said many times, I'd like to see more engagement and debate, rather than opinion stating, snark, and empty quoting.

On the board where I mod, I tried for a few weeks to raise the level of debate, but the forum just wasn't having it.
82  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 07:13:07 pm
Look, this shouldn't be about calling people names. This isn't about foreign policy. The allegation was that a piece of foreign policy information was shared without he permission of the allied source, that came from an ally that threatened to pull cooperation if it was shared without their permission. This is detrimental to US interests because it means the potential loss of a future source of information. It's the value of the Russians having this information versus the US having this source in the future.
83  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 06:43:11 pm
Is it unacceptable to acknowledge that the U.S. has distinct interests from Russia now? Is there no such thing as nonpartisan concern for U.S. national security any more?
84  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 06:33:11 pm
He literally gave a two minute press conference, reading off of a note card, and took no questions. I do not believe one word that came out of McMaster's mouth.

Why blindly trust wapo, a left-leaning newspaper, but automatically refuse to respect the word of perhaps the most respected person in the trump admin?

HR mcmaster's hire was lauded by almost everybody.

All media outlets that report on stories you people don't like are left leaning and biased in your view.

deflection! I'm not saying you shouldn't think it is credible, but wapo has been wrong in the past. The "comey asked for more money before firing" was a lie, as was the story that vermont't utility system was hacked by russia.

You think a respected and honorable military guy like mcmaster is going to destroy his image like that?

It's not just the Washington post which has reported on and confirmed this story. Get your head out of your ass.

Yes, I do believe that people associated with this garbage administration including McMaster are willing to jeopardize their public image in a vein attempt to stay in Trump's ear.

Why should we automatically value the "statements" of leakers in the intel community, both current and retired, who likely hate the fact that trump is in office? Don't you think it is at least partly the case that trump's "anti-establishment" and total political outsider status irks these people to their core ,and they will go to the papers and fling anything to the wall to hope it sticks. What do you have to lose? You can't be punished for leaking fake stuff.

Sure you can... the people you're leaking to will stop trusting you, so if you have something real to leak, it may not be believed. There's no motive for leaking fake stuff.

Quote
By far, the biggest story of the trump WH so far is the intel community's soft war against him. Whether or not it is justified is up to you, but it's definitely a thing. They want him out, and there will be leaks every week like this for the rest of his days in the WH.

We don't know if the intel community is going all out against Trump. We just don't know. ShadowBrokers has gigabytes of their data, and may be blackmailing them to keep Trump in office.
85  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 06:17:17 pm
He literally gave a two minute press conference, reading off of a note card, and took no questions. I do not believe one word that came out of McMaster's mouth.

Why blindly trust wapo, a left-leaning newspaper, but automatically refuse to respect the word of perhaps the most respected person in the trump admin?

HR mcmaster's hire was lauded by almost everybody.

I trust them not to make something up just because they hate Trump. Someone within the WH told them, and it wasn't one person. The motive behind the story, and its veracity, are the question.
86  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 06:15:28 pm
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the WH deliberately fed false stories to the press, only to retract it later, as a means to damaging the latter's credibility. Remember when Trump said he was going offer to amnesty before his SOTU address? Remember, he is the ultimate troll and very dishonest.
87  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump revealed classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador on: May 15, 2017, 06:10:40 pm
I do love how neo-con bush republicans are now heroes on this board are worthy of being retweeted on here.

sure they are.

frum, podhoretz, kristol and co never drank the trump kool-aid.

partisanship is the worst drug of them all.

They did much worse. They crafted policy that made the middle east far worse and are responsible for the second most unpopular war in our nation's history.

The ironic thing is, when people like me opposed the Iraq war, we were accused of being unpatriotic. Now that we oppose giving state secrets to the foreign ministers of rival powers, we are accused of being in bed with neocons.
88  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Hillary Clinton officially launches "Onward Together" PAC on: May 15, 2017, 04:44:18 pm
I'm tapped out. The problem isn't money; Clinton raised plenty of money last year. The problem isn't marketing, infrastructure, voter registration, or any of that.

The problem is, a voting system that is stacked against urban areas and, failing that, the message and the messenger. Clinton was a bad messenger and she tried a bad message.
89  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Combine Single Member Districts with Proportional Representation. on: May 15, 2017, 01:04:50 pm
One common problem with electoral systems that use single member districts is gerrymandering. Nonpartisan redistricting does not eliminate the problem, because even with geographically compact districts, there is a bonus given to parties with particular geographic distributions of supporters. How can those who believe in true proportional representation fix this, while preserving the good aspects of the current system?

We should move to a mixed single member district/party list system. First, single member districts are to be drawn to geographic compactness. Second, each party will have a list of members it wants to elect from each district. Third, the number of members a party elects will be determined proportionally by the statewide popular vote. Fourth, the party member for each district will be picked by all the voters of that district.

For instance, Joe Blow goes to the voting Booth. His ballot looks as so:
Libertarian Party Allan Smith
Green Party Suzanne Polis
Democratic Party Bill Cunningham
Republican Party Joe Gonzalez
Party Vote Libertarian

The state has 24 districts for the legislature in question (State House, State Senate, or Congress) and the party vote is 46% R, 43% D, 5% L, 4% G. The party seats are proportionally distributed:
11 R's
11 D's
1 L
1 G

The 11 most Republican districts are allocated the Republican members they selected. The 11 most Democratic districts of those remaining are allocated to the Democratic members they selected. The remaining two districts are allocated a Libertarian and Green.

This has a number of advantages:

Separates Members from Parties

The point of having a representative of a local area is to represent the residents of that area, not a party. Under this system, the representatives are elected from all the people of that district, regardless of party, and are thus answerable to them all. Hence it preserves and improves the geographic representation principle.

You Get More Moderate Members, rather than more Extreme Members

Currently, all members must fear being "primaried" if they deviate from their base. The result is extreme party polarization. Under my system, the political base for each member is the full constituency. As a result, the majority is not held hostage by a small minority.

Increases Third Party Representation

As seen from the example, proportional representative raises the chance of a third party getting into government. You will get a few Libertarians or Greens who actually are forced into the business of governing and representing districts. This will be good for third parties.

Eliminates the Need for Primaries

Only one election is now needed. The voter will select the party member of each party they want to represent them, as well as the party they want to elect. This saves time and money.

Eliminates the Party Registration Problem

Each voter gets a voice on each party's member for that district, so voters will not be stymied by having registered for the wrong party. Since partisan decisions are made on a party-only basis, there is no incentive for partisans of party A to vote for the worst candidate from party B, as it will not mean that party B is unelectable- it will only potentially saddle them with a worse member

Eliminates Gerrymandering Problems

It solves the main point of this scheme: The parties will elect members on the basis of their statewide total popular vote, so there is no incentive for gerrymandering. There is no incentive to deviate from geographically compact districts. Redrawing districts has no partisan significance.

---

In sum, this system is better than the current system for the above reasons. It should be used to replace any legislature elected by single member districts.
90  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Would You Feel Discomfort if Your Child Dated a Muslim? on: May 15, 2017, 11:43:59 am
I would only let my daughter date cucks and/or complete beta white knights, but really I wouldn't be comfortable no matter who she dates because you can neve be for sure. Best case scenario, a lesbian who gives me grandkids through a sperm bank.

For the son, I wouldn't care who he dates, the more the better! The only things to watch out for are STDs, those that get "accidentally pregnant", those that will use the law to take away his money and my grandkids. But that's really more about marrying than dating.
91  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: President Trump vs Tulsi Gabbard on: May 14, 2017, 04:26:34 pm
92  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Which states do you suspect will never vote Democratic or Republican again.... on: May 14, 2017, 04:44:55 am
93  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bangladesh PM accuses Hillary of pay for play regarding Clinton foundation ! on: May 13, 2017, 01:34:38 pm
We went through this last year. The Clinton Foundation had literally hundreds of thousands of donors, including a massive number of famous people, businesses and governments, so the fact that she did something that benefitted a person or entity who happened to be on the list by itself doesn't prove anything. There would have to be evidence of some actual quid pro quo, which there was none.
Can we apply that logic to Trump-Russia thing?

We even have an actual anti-'quid pro quo' - 'Syria missile strike'

Sure, if one phone call is comparable to this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?tid=pm_graphics_pop_b&utm_term=.3e70d34b5c11
94  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Open Borders on: May 13, 2017, 01:23:32 pm
I always thought that this was a far right wing Strawman. That someone with a website, even one person, seriously advocates it is interesting. Perhaps it shows that by bleating about it so loud, the alt right had inadvertently opened a can of worms. That said:

95  General Discussion / History / How did the Pacific & other islands get settled? on: May 13, 2017, 12:53:49 pm
You literally had people living in the Stone Age who survived thousands of miles of sea journey to tiny specks of land they couldn't possibly have known was even there? If you think of it, it's equally as impressive as the moon landing, given the technology at the time. How could they even build boats, provision supplies, and have knowledge of wind patterns to make such a trip possible with both men and women, and probably children? How many people died going off in every possible direction before all these little isles were settled?
96  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: May 2017: Most likely Democratic Primary on: May 13, 2017, 12:34:46 pm
What a vomit worthy list.

jfern handing out constructive, thoughtful contributions to threads, as usual

Go ahead, nominate another awful neoliberal hawk in 2020. See what happens.

Clinton being "neoliberal" isn't why she lost. She lost because of her excessive baggage in a "change" election year. Meanwhile Bernie was never even close to winning the primary

Her neoliberalism certainly played decisive factor. I suggest you read Fairfax County USA. This is a highly accurate analysis.
97  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Is jfern actually a lot like krazen? on: May 13, 2017, 12:31:10 pm
Stylistically, they both like to make highly polarizing, acerbic one-line comments, but their politics couldn't be more different.
98  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bangladesh PM accuses Hillary of pay for play regarding Clinton foundation ! on: May 13, 2017, 12:29:12 pm
We went through this last year. The Clinton Foundation had literally hundreds of thousands of donors, including a massive number of famous people, businesses and governments, so the fact that she did something that benefitted a person or entity who happened to be on the list by itself doesn't prove anything. There would have to be evidence of some actual quid pro quo, which there was none.
99  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How will Hillary Clinton be remembered in 2067? on: May 12, 2017, 06:45:23 pm
If history returns to its track of the fourteenth to twentieth centuries, she'll be remembered as the martyr who unveiled the depths of misogyny at the core of American society, tearing away a pathetic facade. If history goes as I think it will, she'll be remembered as a Jezebel figure, both the Great Satan, and a pitiful personification of America's nadir.
100  General Politics / Individual Politics / Opinion of Harold Martin III on: May 12, 2017, 03:42:26 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_T._Martin_III

Discuss.
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