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March 30, 2017, 07:54:15 am
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76  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the Hijab on: March 15, 2017, 09:17:43 am
I would bet that the rate of violent acts committed by women wearing the hijab is lower than the general population.
77  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Female politician proposes law to fine men $100 for masturbating on: March 15, 2017, 08:59:35 am
Well no one's going to say "I oppose women's rights" because that's not (yet) popular enough, although we are headed in that direction. I'm not a big fan of the "argumentum ad hominem" on this issue, but the idea that restricting women's rights isn't anti-female just because the people advocating it don't sell themselves that way is rather silly. People who opposed women's suffrage had nominally pro-woman arguments, as well.

     The thing is, pro-life activists would resist conceiving it as a women's rights issue at all. By your logic, a hypothetical proponent of allowing women to commit murder would be pro-woman, and anyone who wanted to punish woman murderers would be anti-woman. This hypothetical sounds preposterous, but this is what it sounds like to people who are pro-life.

Of course, acknowledging it as a women's rights issue doesn't mean that pro-lifers have to become pro-choice. As your example shows, there are valid limitations to "rights". Nonetheless, pro-lifers do want to restrict women's rights, so if you don't see abortion as murder, that becomes the deciding factor.

     I mean, the law does limit our ability to act in certain ways, but banning women from committing murder is a frankly bizarre thing to call "anti-female". The negative connotations of describing a position as "anti-female" compounds this problem.

Pro-choice people don't consider abortion "murder", so we consider restrictions on abortion as anti-female. Since the legislator in question is pro-choice, it makes sense she would use this language.

Quote
     I am pro-choice and do not believe that fetuses should be granted rights that interfere with the actions of rational adults, but considering that I see little evidence to suppose that pro-life people are motivated by an opposition to women's rights, I don't find it informative to formulate the issue as such. It is a political expedient, but one I do not care for.

As I said, I don't think it's a good idea to go into trying to guess people's motivations, since this is argumentum ad hominem, speculative by nature, and motivations are diverse. If we want to open up that can of worms, I do think that many pro-lifers are anti-woman, but I think it would be just a giant red herring.
78  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sherrod Brown, Julian Castro, Kristen Gillibrand on: March 14, 2017, 09:03:44 pm
Brown and Gillibrand, in that order, is the best pairing.  It's one of the more credible pairings I can think of, short of a ticket with Biden and/or Sanders on it.   

The caliber of Democratic contenders is getting near that of the 1988 "Seven Dwarfs".  They weren't a bad lot, but they reflected the thin bench of Presidential hopefuls the Democrats had at that time.  And it would have been even worse in 1992; they had Paul Tsongas and Jerry Brown, guys who were has-beens giving Bill Clinton a real run for it for a while.  None of the current Democratic contenders have the aura of being Ready On Day One except, really, for Biden.  Being ready right away is key for any Democrat to succeed in 2020 because buyers remorse for electing someone with NO government experience has GOT to be an effective theme if Trump is to go.  That is why I don't believe that the Cory Bookers, Kamala Harrises, Julian Castros, and a number of others named here have a realistic shot barring the mother of all economic turndowns.

Since when have Americans ever elected a candidate based on experience? This is what Hillary Clinton campaigned on in both '08 and '16, and it didn't work because people cared about issues. Usually if they are throwing out an incumbent, they want a charismatic outsider.
79  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Linda Sarsour 2020? on: March 14, 2017, 08:59:35 pm
https://twitter.com/lsarsour/status/534073703588700160

Chance at any political office: Over

From 2014. Anyway, Saudi Arabia has surpassed the US in percentage of women in the legislature-

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/arc/classif010117.htm
80  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 14, 2017, 08:52:41 pm
EHarding, my ideal situation is a liberal, democratic and prosperous Russia with strong U.S. ties. Wanting one's own president not to hand a foreign military more rights in one's own country than our own citizens have hardly makes one a xenophobe, even moreso when said president claims to be a nationalist, as opposed to a white nationalist.
81  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Christian Socialism and the Religious left on: March 14, 2017, 08:33:21 pm
My problem with the Christina left is less with the 'left' and more with the 'Christian'. Too many of them deny essentials of the faith.

Such as?

The divinity of Jesus Christ.

You cannot deny the divinity of Christ and be a Christian.
82  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Female politician proposes law to fine men $100 for masturbating on: March 14, 2017, 08:30:58 pm
Well no one's going to say "I oppose women's rights" because that's not (yet) popular enough, although we are headed in that direction. I'm not a big fan of the "argumentum ad hominem" on this issue, but the idea that restricting women's rights isn't anti-female just because the people advocating it don't sell themselves that way is rather silly. People who opposed women's suffrage had nominally pro-woman arguments, as well.

     The thing is, pro-life activists would resist conceiving it as a women's rights issue at all. By your logic, a hypothetical proponent of allowing women to commit murder would be pro-woman, and anyone who wanted to punish woman murderers would be anti-woman. This hypothetical sounds preposterous, but this is what it sounds like to people who are pro-life.

Of course, acknowledging it as a women's rights issue doesn't mean that pro-lifers have to become pro-choice. As your example shows, there are valid limitations to "rights". Nonetheless, pro-lifers do want to restrict women's rights, so if you don't see abortion as murder, that becomes the deciding factor.

You're claim requires a bizarre definition of 'rights'. No one is going around calling the laws against violent crime restrictions on the right to bodily autonomy. The question as always, is whether unborn babies are persons.

All laws are restrictions of rights in some way, only sometimes they are justified and sometimes they are not. If you don't like that word you can use some other word, but it doesn't change the substance. Women need reproductive freedom in order to live fully, as having children is a life-changing event that will consume the rest of her life, so she needs to be able to decide when and if she wants to have them. Not to mention the basic notion that if one's own uterus is public property, it is a grave blow to a person's individual existence as an autonomous being, which is the point being made by this legislator.
83  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Cabinet confirmation hearings **live commentary thread** on: March 14, 2017, 08:09:41 pm
Reuters Politics‏ @ReutersPolitics  1h1 hour ago
BREAKING: Trump to nominate Goldman Sachs managing director James Donovan as deputy Treasury secretary - White House

84  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Tax Returns Coming Tonight? on: March 14, 2017, 07:51:23 pm
White House statement:



.....

what is your damage, Trump?

Lol, they're butthurt. They should be thanking Maddow since at least it shows he paid taxes back then.
85  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 14, 2017, 07:13:11 pm
They voted twice for a black man, but a ticket with 2 whites was too diverse for them? OK.

No, they voted twice for liberalism over conservatism (2008 and 2012), but when given the opportunity to pick white nationalism over liberalism (2016), they did so.
I corrected it for you.

That's why Trump is so tough on Putin, eh?
What does Putin have to do with this?

It's not very nationalistic to allow a foreign country to attack Americans without punishment, to denigrate American intelligence agents who risk their lives for this country, or praise a dictator whose government is run contrary to the values of the US Constitution.

To Attack Americans-Putin didn't hit us with a nuclear bomb.

Praise a Dictator-Trump said Putin is a strong leader. Trump didn't exactly go into with wether he agreed with Putin on issues.

Hacking is a crime, that if an American did it he would go to jail; it is digital breaking and entering and theft, no different than the burglars who broke into the DNC in 1972, in this case carried out by an arm of the Russian military, the GRU. So it was literally an attack by a military arm of a foreign power against American civilians. Trump mocked a whole class of US civil servants who offered their opinion on the attack, and then went on to praise the attacker. Regardless of how reasonable you think what he did was, it was by no means anything resembling "nationalistic." To side with foreigners over fellow Americans is the opposite of nationalism.
86  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Schumer threatens government shutdown if GOP includes Wall in budget on: March 14, 2017, 07:00:37 pm
Again, I ask the same question I asked in the last government shutdown thread: Can't appropriations bills be passed via reconciliation?  In which case, why would they need 60 votes to avert a shutdown?  Can't the Republicans pass them on their own?


Heheh. You've asked the same question 3 times now, and no one has responded. Might it have something to do with the fact that reconciliation can only be used once, so if they use it for health care, they can't use it for the budget.
87  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 14, 2017, 06:43:16 pm
They voted twice for a black man, but a ticket with 2 whites was too diverse for them? OK.

No, they voted twice for liberalism over conservatism (2008 and 2012), but when given the opportunity to pick white nationalism over liberalism (2016), they did so.
I corrected it for you.

That's why Trump is so tough on Putin, eh?
What does Putin have to do with this?

It's not very nationalistic to allow a foreign country to attack Americans without punishment, to denigrate American intelligence agents who risk their lives for this country, or praise a dictator whose government is run contrary to the values of the US Constitution.
88  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 14, 2017, 06:38:24 pm
They voted twice for a black man, but a ticket with 2 whites was too diverse for them? OK.

No, they voted twice for liberalism over conservatism (2008 and 2012), but when given the opportunity to pick white nationalism over liberalism (2016), they did so.
I corrected it for you.

That's why Trump is so tough on Putin, eh?
89  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 14, 2017, 06:07:26 pm
Lief,

This fails to debunk the economic anxiety camp, because even if the above study is accepted as accurate, which I wholly believe to be true, they will come up with two counterarguments. First, they will say that regardless of why voters switched to Trump, the Democrats should become economically populist because it's the right thing to do in a time of high inequality. Secondly, they'll say that from a pragmatic standpoint, if the debate is solely over diversity, we'll lose anyway. So in their minds, they have both merit and pragmatism on their side. At this point, I'm inclined to agree with them.
90  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Female politician proposes law to fine men $100 for masturbating on: March 14, 2017, 05:53:56 pm
Well no one's going to say "I oppose women's rights" because that's not (yet) popular enough, although we are headed in that direction. I'm not a big fan of the "argumentum ad hominem" on this issue, but the idea that restricting women's rights isn't anti-female just because the people advocating it don't sell themselves that way is rather silly. People who opposed women's suffrage had nominally pro-woman arguments, as well.

     The thing is, pro-life activists would resist conceiving it as a women's rights issue at all. By your logic, a hypothetical proponent of allowing women to commit murder would be pro-woman, and anyone who wanted to punish woman murderers would be anti-woman. This hypothetical sounds preposterous, but this is what it sounds like to people who are pro-life.

Of course, acknowledging it as a women's rights issue doesn't mean that pro-lifers have to become pro-choice. As your example shows, there are valid limitations to "rights". Nonetheless, pro-lifers do want to restrict women's rights, so if you don't see abortion as murder, that becomes the deciding factor.
91  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Christian Socialism and the Religious left on: March 14, 2017, 04:25:50 pm
My problem with the Christina left is less with the 'left' and more with the 'Christian'. Too many of them deny essentials of the faith.

Such as?
92  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Female politician proposes law to fine men $100 for masturbating on: March 14, 2017, 02:35:44 pm
Well no one's going to say "I oppose women's rights" because that's not (yet) popular enough, although we are headed in that direction. I'm not a big fan of the "argumentum ad hominem" on this issue, but the idea that restricting women's rights isn't anti-female just because the people advocating it don't sell themselves that way is rather silly. People who opposed women's suffrage had nominally pro-woman arguments, as well.
93  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Did Hillary Clinton do anything right on: March 14, 2017, 12:33:12 pm
Her strategy was terrible but she made many good tactical moves. Bringing out Khizr and Ghazala Khan at the DNC was one of the most brilliant acts of political theater I've ever seen. She also took debate prep seriously: Trump had been moving into the lead before the debates and she got a big bounce out of the first one in particular. And keep in mind that expectations for Trump were very, very low, but the debates were still seen as victories for her.

This. Trotting out Khan got her a lead for all of August.

Winning the first debate got her a lead for October.
94  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Sanders-Trump voters on: March 14, 2017, 02:08:10 am
As a Clinton-Clinton voter, I have to concede these are not necessarily bad people.
95  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Who is worse: intersectionalists or TERFs? on: March 14, 2017, 01:59:59 am
While my beliefs are closer to intersectionalism, most intersectionalists just practice Oppression Olympics to rip each other apart, and are really driven by a need to employ hate speech for the sake of virtue signaling. It is completely vile. The TERFs, while I disagree with them the same way I would disagree with same-sex marriage opponents, at least are honest about their bigotry. Which makes them relatively ineffectual. The bigotry of the intersectionalists is far more insidious because it is hidden beneath layers of pseudo-academic gobbleygook. It goes on for years and years without ever being challenged. They also use authoritarian tactics and have succeeded in turning thousands if not millions of young people into anti-SJW backlash and Alt Right.
96  General Politics / International General Discussion / Trump resumes arms sales to Saudi Arabia on: March 14, 2017, 01:50:02 am
Quote
The State Department has approved resuming arms sales to Saudi Arabia previously blocked by Barack Obama.

A multi-million dollar  technology for Riyadh was blocked by the former President during the final months of his administration over human rights concerns.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-state-department-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-yemen-air-strikes-barack-obama-block-weapons-a7620821.html
97  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breitbart posts leaked audio of Paul Ryan bashing Trump on: March 13, 2017, 11:21:51 pm
for those not following the AHCA debate enough....they are calling it RYANCARE every day and blaming it all on him.

They are losing... Google News search shows 310,000 hits for "Trumpcare" and only 99,000 hits for "Ryancare." Like it or not, this bill is associated with Trump, which is correct as it wouldn't even be a consideration in the last couple years of when Ryan was speaker under Obama.
98  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: U.S. Citizens Now Being Forced To Provide Their Social Media Passwords On Return on: March 13, 2017, 11:03:52 pm
It's bad no matter who does it.
99  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / U.S. Citizens Now Being Forced To Provide Their Social Media Passwords On Return on: March 13, 2017, 10:21:07 pm
Quote
"One of the officers calls out to me and says, 'Hey, give me your phone,'" recalled Shibly. "And I said, 'No, because I already went through this.'"

The officer asked a second time.

Within seconds, he was surrounded: one man held his legs, another squeezed his throat from behind. A third reached into his pocket, pulling out his phone. McCormick watched her boyfriend's face turn red as the officer's chokehold tightened.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/american-citizens-u-s-border-agents-can-search-your-cellphone-n732746
100  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Why didn't coal country flip to the GOP much earlier than it did? on: March 13, 2017, 10:11:55 pm
Quote
For five years, the coal industry and its fossil-fueled allies in the Republican Party have accused the Obama Administration of waging a war on coal. They claim the administrationís new plan to limit carbon emissions at existing power plants is really about carbon emissions at existing coal plants. They see the carbon rules that the president announced Monday, like his previous rules limiting mercury, smog, and coal ash, as a thinly disguised effort to make coal power uneconomical.

Theyíre right, of course.

Obamaworld likes to portray its efforts to clean up power plants as a war on pollution in general, not a war on coal in particular, but it just so happens that coal spews most of the pollution from power plants. Itís Americaís leading contributor to global warming, producing three-fourths of our carbon emissions from electricity, even though it generates just over one third of our electricity. Itís also the dominant source of mercury and other toxics that foul our air and damage our health. Itís filthy stuff. When Obama said Saturday that his carbon rules will prevent 100,000 asthma attacks in Year One, he wasnít describing the health benefits of emitting less carbon dioxide; he was describing the health benefits of burning less coal.

http://time.com/2806697/obama-epa-coal-carbon/
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