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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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26  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Are the Sanders supporters here willing to admit he won't be the nominee? on: February 27, 2016, 11:43:15 pm
I never, ever, thought that Bernie would be the nominee.
27  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The media said for years Hillary Clinton is a terrible politician and candidate on: February 27, 2016, 11:40:42 pm
Sure Maro, your initial post was so insightful and engaging in the conversation.

Are you familiar with sarcasm? It's often used as a rhetorical device to make a point without stating it outright.

Who said she was a political genius? I said she wasn't the utter failure, terrible, horrible, no good candidate/politician that the media constantly portrays her as.

And by the way, plenty of people heard of Obama. He was the keynote speaker at the 2004 DNC, and presidential speculation on him began that day. Hillary was the frontrunner in 08, but she was never anything resembling a lock.

I don't disagree that she's fine as a politician, I'm just saying that pretty much nothing about her primary victory here should be used as evidence that she excels all that much over the average politician. It wouldn't have just taken a terrible politician to lose to Bernie Sanders of all people after the entire party rolled out the red carpet, it would've taken a catastrophically horrible candidate.

Her strength as a politician is pretty down the middle, I'd say. I think it says more about the mediocre Democratic bench, and her sheer name recognition in comparison, that we're even running her at this point.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The media said for years Hillary Clinton is a terrible politician and candidate on: February 27, 2016, 11:25:43 pm
Of course he was a great candidate (and I'll miss him once he's no longer President, especially given the likely replacements) but my point is he was a nobody prior to that race and right up until Iowa people still didn't think he had much of a chance against Hillary Clinton. Let's also not forget the horrendous campaign Hillary ran, which included Bush-tier tactics such as "fear monger over national security" and "look everybody he looks so dark and foreign in this tribal garb."

I don't think Hillary is a bad politician, but her campaign tactics are very bog standard. She won a Senate race in a heavily Democratic state, for which she never would've been a contender for had her husband not been President, then lost a Presidential primary that she never should've, then stumbled out of the gate before winning a race that should've never been anywhere near as close as it was from the outset. How could you possibly argue Hillary is some sort of political genius?

Just let him be. He'll get over it.

At least I actually engage in discussions in earnest. My interest in these forums goes beyond "gloat."
29  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The media said for years Hillary Clinton is a terrible politician and candidate on: February 27, 2016, 11:17:55 pm
Congratulations to Hillary for winning a primary virtually the entire Democratic Party paved the way for her in, against her opponent, Ancient Socialist Independent from Vermont. After she lost a primary eight years ago against Black Teenager No One Heard Of. Truly, she is the greatest politician of our age.
30  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Beefs with Bernie on: February 27, 2016, 09:03:29 pm
Bernie believes, rightly or wrongly, every issue, every wrong we have to fix, starts with fixing money in politics. That's why he eventually weaves most issues back to talking about "the 1%" "Wall Street" "the billionaire class" and so on. Prison reform hits roadblocks because of money in politics. Healthcare reform hits roadblocks because of money in politics. Regulating banks hits roadblocks because of money in politics. School reform hits roadblocks because of money in politics. Environmental causes snag because of money in politics. Downsizing our military excursions is nigh-impossible because of money in politics. This goes on and on.

So of course he's going to bring it up a lot. Of course overturning Citizens United is going to be his first priority in a Justice. People who give him flack for being a "single issue candidate" are completely missing the point. Bernie cares about all this stuff, but 90% of issues begin with "Well, how to we battle the ___ lobby on this one?" and he wants to dismantle that first and foremost.

Hillary meanwhile will get on stage and preach "intersectionality" as an excuse, ironically, for dismissing things that would have an impact, because they wouldn't solve everything at once somehow.

Bernie's bad at optics and Hillary's always been better at it though. So it's not surprising so many people think he doesn't care about black people or something. He's an old white guy with unkempt hair and he sort of flails his arms around a lot like a mad scientist. He can get arrested in civil rights protest while Hillary was a Goldwater Girl and she's the hero. He can be campaigning against DOMA in the 90s while Hillary waffles on gay rights until 2013 and she's still the hero. Bernie lets BLM protesters take over his rally while Hillary engaged in a racist whisper campaign in '08 against Obama and she's still the hero of black people. I suppose in the end that'll be my beef with Sanders. He's a bad campaigner. Really bad. He probably would've never won a general election against anyone but Trump. But he's a really, genuinely, good guy.

And most importantly: Has been consistent throughout his life in caring about all this stuff. Much moreso than you could ever say about Hillary.
31  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Do you side with Black Lives Matter? Why or Why Not? on: February 27, 2016, 06:43:59 pm
I guess? It's like like they're a particularly organized thing, which would be the only reason why I'm hesitant to say I "side" with them, but I certainly believe blacks receive disproportionate violent responses from police and that cops in America need serious reform.
32  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Nate Silver: Media is biased AGAINST Rubio on: February 27, 2016, 04:55:55 pm
The guy came into fame because he called BS on all the pundits who were doing their little pundit BS and got straight to the numbers. Now he's become what he hates - a know nothing pundit.
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The LGBT vote in Dem primary? on: February 26, 2016, 01:07:26 pm
It's not like I don't recognize Hillary has done good for gays. I appreciate the work she has done and the efforts she has made to spread awareness. What hits a nerve with me is just people acting like she's this gay icon, this champion for us that always had our back. She's this badass bitch who don't need no man and we're gonna go out there and be bottoms for Hillary. It's just so phony to me. She's flipped on this topic numerous times, and took longer than most Democrats to get on this page. When it comes to these issues, Hillary is always looking out for Hillary first.

This is exacerbated for me by the Clinton campaign also trying to make Sanders out to be a person that doesn't care about the issues that affect black people, something he also has more on his side for than Hillary does, particularly after her race-bating in 2008. Hillary always comes to these parties late and people act like we're supposed to let her take the spotlight. She deserves pretty minimal credit. She's good on these positions (now, at least) but I take huge issue with people trying to make her a "champion" for gay rights. She's not. She's just not.
34  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The LGBT vote in Dem primary? on: February 26, 2016, 12:53:46 pm
^ Um excuse me, she also gave speeches.

Years after the fact that equality was clearly a foregone conclusion and most of the debate was pretty much over. Now she gets to be the Lady Gaga of politics or something.
35  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The LGBT vote in Dem primary? on: February 26, 2016, 12:43:30 pm
I feel bad for Bernie, I really do. The poor guy gets the shaft from most of the Democratic Party in favor of someone who's really a moderate Republican that adopts popular party positions when they become politically beneficial. I firmly believe he'd do far more for LGBT and African Americans than Hillary ever would, but he's not even being looked at.

I'll always have a place in my heart for that man.

As Secretary of State, Clinton helped create the Global Equality Fund, and gave one of the most comprehensive speeches on LGBT equality abroad that a US diplomat has ever given. She was the first ever First Lady to march in a gay pride parade. She consistently brings up LGBT issues at debates and rallies when not prompted. She's done more for the LGBT community than Sanders has and ever will.

Convenient, I suppose, that she did all this when she was no longer an elected politician.
36  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The LGBT vote in Dem primary? on: February 26, 2016, 12:24:26 pm
And Sanders publicly opposed gay marriage until 2009.

What the f**k does this matter? Hillary didn't support it until 2013 - which was hilariously late even by Democratic Party standards - actively ran against the idea when she was campaigning for Senate, and supported DOMA (which Bernie voted against), regardless of whatever historical revisionist nonsense she gives as her logic pretzel now that it was actually a trick to support gay rights all along because she's super duper really our champion, you guys.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons the LGBT community and activist groups can pull out of their ass for why they support Hillary now, but it certainly isn't for any substantive reason about when we needed her at the time. It's all some garbage emotional reasoning for how we're supposed to identify with her because of sexism and other superficial crap.

Or I guess if you just view her as more electable, which, hey, fine.
37  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Do you support or oppose the legalization of prostitution? on: February 26, 2016, 10:28:58 am
I find the arguments opposed to be entirely unconvincing. So I do support it with some conditions.
38  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Sanders Supporters: Will you vote for Hillary if she's nominated? on: February 26, 2016, 10:23:40 am
Almost certainly not.
39  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Opinion of the Bush family's impact on American politics on: February 25, 2016, 04:53:19 pm
6. George W. Bush.
*Bush deserves the last spot on here for being the most directly damaging Presidents on this list, as well as having the unbelievable skill of being able to f**k up damn near everything he attempted or did.

9/11? He ignored all reports and threats of terrorism before it happened. Bin Laden? Couldn't get him. (Thanks Obama!) Tax cuts? Were so wasteful and unstimulative that he did them twice. Medicare Part D is one of the most incredible stories of legislative clusterf**kery that you could ever read, and was a total mess to boot. The PATRIOT Act. No Child Left Behind? Plenty, actually. Afghanistan? Mismanaged. Iraq? A lie from the very beginning. All told, his middle eastern excursions will cost us trillions of dollars that we could've used for anything else. His first veto? Killing a stem cell research bill.

Illegal wiretapping. Torture. Rendition. Sold his plan to privatize Social Security to the public so hilariously badly that it was abandoned within weeks. Completely lied about his promise to reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban. Riddled mining and oil drilling regulations with loopholes for his industry friends and raised a middle finger to every environmental cause he came across. Neutered FEMA due to a lack of any interest in qualified governing, and New Orleans paid the price. Wanted to appoint Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, for Christ's sake. Vetoed a children's health insurance program expansion bill that was fully paid for. Ruined America's image abroad and made us the laughing stock of the first world. This is just the stuff off the top of my head.

In addition to all of that, his term ended with the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression, the damage of which will be felt for generations. Everyone who acts like we can't treat Bush like a terrible President because he's too recent and we're biased? Screw you. George W. Bush is one of the worst Presidents in the history of the United States. End of story.

40  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Congrats, President-elect Hillary Clinton! on: February 20, 2016, 11:20:13 pm
A taste that Holmes is no doubt an expert on.
41  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: GE 2016: Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump on: February 20, 2016, 07:48:28 pm
Third party.
42  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Republican South Carolina Primary results thread (polls close @7pm ET) on: February 20, 2016, 07:38:15 pm
So probably Hillary vs. Trump.

Should be fun.
43  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Democratic Nevada Caucus results thread (entrance poll @2pm ET) on: February 20, 2016, 05:20:54 pm
As expected. Oh well.
44  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Final poll: Who wins NV? on: February 20, 2016, 01:34:20 am
Clinton, and it's not going to be particularly close.
45  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Bernie arrest photo found on: February 19, 2016, 10:10:19 pm
46  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: South Dakota Senate passes anti-transgender bill on: February 19, 2016, 10:04:14 pm
I feel like there's major projection issues going on whenever someone freaks out about "the perverts lurking around bathrooms to catch a glimpse and get off on strangers!" like this. They're f**king restrooms, no one is running around public restrooms naked if you're over the age of four. There's nothing sexual about the experience at all that the addition of a transgender person is going to completely disrupt or something.

I think there are legitimate reasons to separate facilities (practical reasons like needing literally different appliances and supplies for the different sexes in different restrooms) but I don't really see any "sexual" reason for separate rooms. Who cares.
47  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will the Paid Speech Question followed by LBGT Rights damage Clinton's campaign? on: February 19, 2016, 09:45:20 pm
I have no serious issue with people making compromises and not being able to stand up for the right thing way back when. Just don't try to paint yourself as this champion for gay rights - like you've always been one. It honestly disgusts me. And it makes me think less of the people eating it all up.
48  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: February 2016 Federal Election on: February 19, 2016, 07:23:51 am
President/Vice President:

1. Adam Griffin/AHDuke99
2. Leinad/Cris
3. Winfield/Poirot

Midwest Senator:

1. Gass3268
2. Write In: Dereich
49  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: MSNBC Las Vegas, NV Democratic town hall @9pm ET **live commentary thread** on: February 18, 2016, 10:54:11 pm
Haven't been watching, but has the coughing seriously been that bad? Both Hillary and Bernie are old folks, the campaign has to be hard on them both.
50  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Vermont’s Black Leaders: "We Were Invisible to Sanders" on: February 17, 2016, 10:36:36 pm
But not one - including Hillary Clinton - actually put themselves out there or sacrificed anything to help end injustice against minorities.

Sincere question: What does this really mean? This is an easy thing to say, but in all of these conversations I don't understand what could possibly qualify for this. Beyond lending vocal support to these causes, being on the right side of these issues, and lending their images (as Hillary and Bernie have both done to varying degrees over their lives) what more could be done? What is the chasm in their records that shows they haven't done enough for minorities? What even is "enough"?

Very good question. Similar question: How exactly do you address the plight of African Americans WITHOUT discussing economics? There's criminal justice reform (on which Sanders is far more radical than Clinton) but beyond that, what else? How do you address that people are poor without talking about economics? Wring your hands about "White supremacy" and self flagellate over privilege? Those seem to be the only things people call for and they don't actually do anything. Certainly not compared to universal access to higher education and health care, which have very real concrete effects.

The irony is that for all the talk about "intersectionality" - this concept that issues of institutional racism and sexism are a result of a confluence of factors that are reinforcing - Hillary makes statements like "If we broke up the big banks tomorrow… would that end racism? Would that end sexism?" She preaches intersectionality and the idea that these issues are so much more complicated than one thing, but acts as if there's one magic pill herself, dismissing individual issues that would have a measurable effect on reducing racial and gender inequalities, because they wouldn't just solve it all at once. It makes no sense.

There was a point in one of the early Democratic debates where Hillary was asked point-blank if she would take a position on decriminalizing marijuana. She flatly said "No." When asked the same question, Bernie said he would support it. That alone would do more for reducing racial inequalities than any symbolic nonsense Hillary spews in her stump speeches, using words written by university graduates that she clearly doesn't even understand.
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