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March 02, 2015, 02:23:27 am
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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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26  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is feminism the solution to what MRAs often complain about? on: February 17, 2015, 08:21:10 pm
Cory more or less gets at what prevents me from lending my sword (however little it matters in the grand scheme of things) to modern feminists; I prefer a little more intellectual honesty and a willingness to call out the unhelpful actors. That, and a focus on actions rather than words.

Being gay instilled me with an inherent desire to always want to help the less privileged and oppressed so no one suffers structural inequalities as I have and do, but please don't piss and tell me it's raining. Pay inequality (though it should be more appropriately called employment inequality) is a good example. I think it's absolutely a huge issue, but must we constantly repeat tired old numbers that people have long since pointed out are far more complicated than they appear? Stop implementing laws that people openly admit are sh**ty and prone to overreach? And while we're at it, no longer cherrypicking numbers about sexual assault or conflating every form of sexual assault with rape, a serious term that should remain serious?

Can we admit situations where women are actually doing pretty well (better than men, even) instead of using rhetoric that implies women are second class citizens when they're not? When Anita Sarkeesian says something ignorant or asinine, can feminists please call that out as dumb without everyone who says a bad word about her being labeled misogynist? Can we not put sexism labels on entertainment products, and drop the long-since-proven-false notion that violent media leads to violence in real life in anything other than astronomically rare instances? Our society is less violent (including sexually violent) than in decades, bros. Some feminists sound like my grandparents after watching the news. "Boy, the world is just getting worse and worse, isn't it." No.

Can we treat the Bechdel Test as what it originally was as opposed to some sort of sacrosanct for-serious code to create media by? An interesting occasional observation and literal joke? And when influential feminists start pushing something called "Indigenous Science" can feminists please call this out for the woo that it is?

Like, if we could do things like that, focus on the things that we can agree on without pushing some sort of distorted narrative, I'd be on board. Women should be safe from harassment, paid equally, given all the same opportunities as anyone else and vice versa. I've never disagreed where it counts. But of course modern feminism isn't doing this, because in the last few years female politics became a forefront wedge issue in American politics more than ever, so now the dialogue that surrounds it is more partisan, tribal, and very very stupid. Calling out idiots means weakening your "team" and "giving the other guys ammo" so each prominent group just fills up with idiots. There's no disincentive.

Feminism is one of the only social movements I can think of off the top of my head that so strongly obsesses over making sure everyone uses that exact label; even this thread just a few posts above contains an example of it. Why does it f**king matter? I'm with you guys where it really counts, I'll vote for the good people, I'll support the issues that help you out whenever I can. Whether or not I call myself a feminist doesn't change how I think and act already and I try to be the best person I can be. It just strikes me as dogmatic and downright religious. I can't think of another force in society that constantly tries to tell you what you are as often and focuses on the petty trivialities, constantly imploring you to prove your piety in a showy fashion, instead of simply doing good with no fanfare. Or spreads unfalsifiable social theories as hard fact with nearly the fervor. I remember a handful of days back on the 2016 board in a thread about Huckabee where it was revealed he "suggests watching soap operas make adultery, lying, divorce, murder, hating, and stealing seem routine and normal to people" and everyone laaughed and laaughed. Except, purely logically speaking, what makes this a more absurd hypothesis than any two bit pop-feminist that says video games or Game of Thrones normalize violence and misogyny? Each one is simply based on the number of people who believe it, and very little more.

I don't hate feminism, and when it's constructive and focuses on clear-cut, honestly-assessed problems with specific solutions, I'm right there with them, but it is more than a little disappointing that modern feminism is often so caught up in arguing about itself that it's forgotten to make specific proposals in solving the structural inequalities. The article effective tumblr reblog masquerading as "news" posted from BRTD is an example of this. It highlights a problem, recites platitudes and feel-goods in gif form, and more or less ends with "man, if we could just solve all the problems, we could solve all the problems!" Thanks. Very insightful.

Sorry for rambling.
27  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is feminism the solution to what MRAs often complain about? on: February 17, 2015, 12:03:45 pm
What about modern feminism (a conversation that is near-impossible since there are tons of different forms of feminisms and what people even think of patriarchy varies wildly) seeks to solve these problems? Like, even if you accept that the concept of "the patriarchy" as some all-encompassing boogeyman still exists in full force in America and the rest of the first world to this day (and I'm not even sure I really buy into the "heads we win, tails you lose" logic that argues about the patriarchy's existence in America in the first place), "dismantling it" (what does this mean? what does this entail? none of this is specific whatsoever) is not some sort of panacea that trickles down to magically hocus pocus every problem that faces men and women away. Like, no social problem is solved this way. It's complete wishful thinking.

I think when MRAs blame feminism for this sort of thing it's obviously idiotic, but I find it no less simplistic than just blaming it on a squishy concept that everyone defines however they like depending on the argument. I just don't agree that feminism (again, what feminism? what does this mean?) is the "solution" because "magically solve every problem! who's with us?!" isn't an actual solution. Modern feminism is very light on specific constructive ideas to meet their desired outcomes (and exaggerates statistics a lot to get awareness while then quietly admitting when pressed they're not as dire), which is why a lot of people respond to it with a raised eyebrow. At least, it's why I do.
28  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill on: February 14, 2015, 04:07:08 pm
So no, there's nothing vile and xenophobic about sarcastic comments like that, just the people you have in your head that say them.
29  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill on: February 14, 2015, 04:01:50 pm
As an atheist, I can say with honestly that a lot of atheists are extremely Islamophobic and like to use their blanket philosophy of "I'm against all religious extremism" to say vile and xenophobic things about Muslims. I'm sure there are atheists on this forum who have said "lol Islam is the religion of peace" as a comment on any number of articles on terrorist attacks.

A pithy sarcastic comment like that is "vile and xenophobic" now?
30  General Politics / Economics / Re: Is "thinking like an economist" unhealthy? on: February 13, 2015, 05:30:38 am
Nah, the last thing sociology needs is to delude itself even further that it is a science.
31  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Atheist man opens fire on Muslim students at UNC Chapel Hill on: February 12, 2015, 02:23:34 pm
Alcon, you have very quickly become one of my favorite posters. I have nothing more to add that you haven't except to also say this is, of course, incredibly sad and f**ked up.
32  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: What Justifies the State Taking Children Away From Their Parents? on: February 08, 2015, 09:39:51 pm
Physical and/or sexual abuse. I don't think that we should be taking kids away from parents because the parents refuse to vaccinate their children.

This.
33  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Is "Anti-Racism" a codeword for "Anti-White"? on: January 27, 2015, 08:34:49 pm
No. That's silly.
34  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Important Announcement—Hagrid for the South! on: January 27, 2015, 08:29:34 pm
Good luck
35  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Napoleon Memorial Thread #RIP on: January 27, 2015, 07:57:47 pm
That some of you would consider a person we've always known so little of a true friend speaks only to your exceedingly low standards. And to continue to like him after the revelation that in fact, yes, he was a total liar all long means you just have none.
36  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: A spooky coincidence on: January 27, 2015, 02:09:17 am
Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.

You really don't seem to know much about Napoleon then.

I remember back in Napoleon's early days plenty of people were saying this about him down in Atlasia because of our, shall we say, more direct history with Hamilton. I was convinced it was him for ages (Duke knows this more than anyone)... but everytime this was mentioned it never gained traction. That he turns out to be Hamilton is not surprising, but this should've been realized years ago. Amazing.
37  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Snowstalker on: January 25, 2015, 06:55:39 am
Yeah I also get the sense that Snowstalker is a genuinely good guy personally, it's just much of his posting that could use improvement.
38  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Cindy Sheehan on: January 23, 2015, 07:20:46 am
Clearly has gone off the deep end at this point.
39  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: How would you characterize Front National? on: January 22, 2015, 06:31:27 am
What Antonio said.
40  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Theodore Roosevelt on: January 21, 2015, 01:02:32 am
His lasting positive impacts far outweigh "he said crazy things those times." But this is the internet, so guess what a loud minority of people prioritize.

He's one of my favorite Presidents and I find him fascinating. His autobiography is great. My vote goes without saying.
41  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: Petition to un-re-ban Libertas on: January 17, 2015, 08:30:39 pm
I would be more receptive to complaints about moderation if they weren't hysterical and based on premises that are transparently false. ("You're all homophobic!" "You just all hate sex!" "There's a conspiracy to ban posters the secret cabal doesn't like!" etc.)
42  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Are you pro-sex or anti-sex? on: January 17, 2015, 06:50:24 pm
Depends on the context (sane).
43  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the rebanning of Libertas on: January 17, 2015, 01:43:48 am
The notion that secret abandoned-building orgies are a natural expression of homosexuality is stupid and genuinely offends me.
44  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: Moderators, how did you vote? on: January 15, 2015, 06:36:47 pm
And if anyone accuses afleitch of being prudish, this entire site will explode from the irony.
45  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Do child poors get birthday parties? on: January 15, 2015, 06:27:41 pm
Yes, poor people occasionally act like normal humans.
46  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What would you do if the previous poster showed up on your doorstep? on: January 15, 2015, 05:39:36 pm
Invite him out for coffee to deliberately talk about politics.
47  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Was unbanning Libertas the correct decision? on: January 15, 2015, 05:23:51 pm
What Oakvale said is more or less right. I don't give a f**k about Libertas' new political views and think it's transparently shallow that so many people are now defending the guy just because he came back, with nothing else to show for his alleged personal evolution other than "hey guys, I'm a liberal now! and I've been checking my privilege so hard!" and then a bunch of people here started eating it up. Libertas' general behavior is no less disruptive, his attitude no less unhinged, than it ever was before, and if he hadn't made some transformation to generic young gay leftist I would wager half the people that are defending him wouldn't be either.

Even the thought process that led to his unbanning continues to elude me. Like, why? Did someone on the team just wake up one day and feel like unbanning someone so they just threw a dart at the wall? Even if we're going to accept the idea behind unbanning people (which I don't, it seems completely pointless, there is no net-gain here) why him, of all people?

And all the accusations of bigotry and prudery are so ridiculous at this point so as to not even be worth responding to. You do a disservice to the weight behind those words by using them so wantonly.
48  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Liberal opinion of Bill Maher's views on Islam... on: January 15, 2015, 08:08:20 am
I'm not trying to play the "Stop complaining about your four-star meal, there are starving children in Africa" argument. I'm a bit miffed because some of the same people who would tell me I'm some sort of woman-hating monster for liking songs with "bitch" in the lyrics are the same people who would argue we shouldn't be too loud in condemning the more dangerous aspects of Islam because it might make people feel bad.

It's perfectly understandable (and normal) to not be outraged at all the bad things in the world, we have lives to lead and it's natural we would be more focused on what we see in front of us, but to be so hyper-judicious in your social justice activism yet handwave away (and be all "Oh, but come on guys" about) things like "these hundreds of millions of people think I should die if I say something bad about Muhammad and think women should be beaten and not allowed to drive or read" there's some contradiction that happened along that reasoning process.
49  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Liberal opinion of Bill Maher's views on Islam... on: January 15, 2015, 07:39:38 am
And just to get this off my chest:

There are multiple lefties on this forum, TNF and Lief chief among them, that will beat their chests and openly advocate for literally throwing racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, behind bars. Who will completely decimate the reputations of individuals for the slightest of things, who see vicious -isms behind the mildest of transgressions and poor wordings.

There's an enormous irony in the fact that some of the same people who will go on and on about how wildly offensive American culture is because they think it's genuinely patriarchal, about how our entire system is racist and misogynistic top to bottom, are the same ones who run defense and play games of whataboutery when it comes to actually misogynistic ideologies, actual out-and-out racism, and actually violently patriarchal societies. When it's white American racism, it's throw those people behind bars. When it's perceived sexism in media, get rid of that dangerous trash. The tiniest reference to guns in political imagery is "they're encouraging violence against political targets, those monsters!" But when it comes to cultures that are far more intolerant, far more misogynistic, cultures and strains of thought that are far more accepting of violence, it's "well, what about the Christians" and "muh cultural differences, you're being racist and unwelcoming." If a politician here said they believe gays should be put to death, you wouldn't be defending them by saying "well, they go about the rest of their lives totally normal!"

If you're the sort of person that actually gets outraged by every little thing in Western society that someone could maybe, if you look at it the right way and click your heels a few times, be construed as bigoted and violent, there is literally no better target, no more influential of a target, than Middle Eastern countries and all-too-common fundamentalist Islamic thought. Start holding these people to similar standards or throw your standards in the f**king garbage and stop making such a show about how you care about the plight of women and other disadvantaged groups around the world.
50  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Male Privilege on: January 15, 2015, 12:00:19 am
There are situations in which it pays to be a man. And similarly, there are situations where the opposite is true. Simplistic attempts to determind to what degree is one sex favored over the other (and even here not in any real measursable way)  misses the critical point that different people are put into very different situations over the course of their lives. So, in short, it depends.

Sure, but you're sort of missing the point. To get completely reductionist just for the sake of not typing several paragraphs, male privilege is the notion that males generally have an easier time in society than women. There are certainly situations where women have advantages, but those situations are fewer than when men have advantages. Therefore, general male privilege.
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