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15876  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the Issue, part 70 on: July 05, 2009, 02:39:39 am
In many cases, yes, but it depends on what exactly.
15877  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: DWTL is Running for Something on: July 04, 2009, 06:48:06 pm
I agree with Franzl. I find the idea of a Council of Governors abhorrent (Governors alread have a role; as governors) but should one be introduced, regional Senators would have to be abolished.

Well I don't oppose the CoG per se. The role of governor today is largely irrelevant...and personally, I wouldn't have any interest in becoming Governor.

And if we truly went to an entirely at-large Senate, that'd contribute to making Senate elections more interesting, and also add an interesting element to the game by having legislation pass through two hurdles.
15878  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: DWTL is Running for Something on: July 04, 2009, 06:37:24 pm
I support regional representation and everything, but we don't need to increase its power.

If a "Council of Governors" were to be created, then I would personally advocate adopting a completely at-large election system for the Senate.

I also wouldn't mind a bi-cameral system in which the regional governors...or people that they nominate...form an "upper house" of some sort.

I just don't think it's really fair to add some sort of regional representation while keeping the Senate the way it is.

15879  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 06:32:18 pm
I think we are getting sidetracked. All I'm trying to say is that if you want to lower the drinking age you should present a valid reason for doing so and not just because "everyone breaks it" or even the "I can do x,y,z too" canard. The reason we have this law is because the perceived benefit is greater than the perceived cost. The only reason to scrap it would be if the costs are demonstrated to exceed the benefits. (Which isn't too convincing http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/health/research/08safe.html?scp=6&sq=drinking+age+deaths&st=nyt)

Notice that neither Franzl or I has used the initial premise of the thread as a reason to legalizing underage drinking.

One interesting thing is that the typical minimum ages for drinking and those for driving are practically reversed in Europe. It's a common argument here in Germany, at least, that being legally able to drink 2 years before getting a drivers license (well...it's one year these days with "learners' permits") allows one to become accustomed to drinking and the effects of having a couple of drinks....which in theory is supposed to keep people from drinking and driving once they're legally allowed to drive.

Of course...I'm not sure how true that is in practice, considering that almost every American teenager has had alcohol before despite drinking laws.

Although I think you're certainly right in saying that "legal" drinking would make teenagers more responsible...by allowing them to consume 1-2 drinks in a bar or restaurant and not having to "get the most" out of drinking on some Saturday night just because it's one of the few times they have access to alcohol. The general drinking mentality is important, and I get the feeling in the U.S. among many young people that they drink primarily to get drunk. I think this, as you suggested, is partially a result of wanting to abuse the "forbidden fruit", so to say.
15880  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Retrospective approval rating on: July 04, 2009, 05:38:03 pm
Specifically concerning roads.....how, may I ask, are corporations supposed to compete? If there's only a limited amount of space, how do you expect 2 or more sets of roads to be built?
15881  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 04:16:55 pm
Common sense doesn't appear to be your strength.

Says the guy who apparently thinks drinking a beer is as important as driving, voting, and working.

I won't respond to any more of your posts if your purpose is just to insult me.


lol, that's an easy way out, isn't it?

I never stated that drinking beer is as "important" as the things you mentioned. I simply stated that prohibition for people under 21 is illogical, and doesn't really have any positive effects. The U.S. is the one of the only countries to have a drinking age higher than the age of majority. Many European countries' drinking ages are lower than 18.

I don't consider something to be right just because it's the current law, as you appear to think.

It's well documented that it has saved lives. But that's not the point. The point is that most people support it because they believe that less young people drinking is preferable to more accidents. If you want to overturn it you need public opinion on your side. It shouldn't be overturned just because "everyone breaks it".


You're going around in circles here. You're seriously using public opinion as an argument? That's pretty dangerous in my opinion, to claim that something is correct simply because most people think it's correct.

I don't believe that the drinking age has very much to do with accident rates. As previously stated, other countries manage....or are you saying that Americans simply can't drive?

15882  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Employee Free Choice Act on: July 04, 2009, 04:09:08 pm
There's no real reason to vote against this other than "I hate unions."

Aye, of course.

I don't hate unions. I do hate potential intimidation.
15883  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 03:51:29 pm
Common sense doesn't appear to be your strength.

Says the guy who apparently thinks drinking a beer is as important as driving, voting, and working.

I won't respond to any more of your posts if your purpose is just to insult me.


lol, that's an easy way out, isn't it?

I never stated that drinking beer is as "important" as the things you mentioned. I simply stated that prohibition for people under 21 is illogical, and doesn't really have any positive effects. The U.S. is the one of the only countries to have a drinking age higher than the age of majority. Many European countries' drinking ages are lower than 18.

I don't consider something to be right just because it's the current law, as you appear to think.
15884  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: How many votes will the media get for Obama this time? on: July 04, 2009, 02:47:50 pm
It's exactly what you said.

"I can't imagine this guy getting elected without the media".

That means you assume that McCain would have won if there hadn't been media coverage.

He probably would have won if there was fair media coverage. But I'm also referring to the Hillary/Obama match.


so how is my claim false?
15885  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 02:37:07 pm
Common sense doesn't appear to be your strength.
15886  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Employee Free Choice Act on: July 04, 2009, 02:15:30 pm
I - NAY
15887  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: DWTL is Running for Something on: July 04, 2009, 02:04:45 pm
Good to see you active again and involved in Atlasia Smiley
15888  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: How many votes will the media get for Obama this time? on: July 04, 2009, 01:49:39 pm
It's exactly what you said.

"I can't imagine this guy getting elected without the media".

That means you assume that McCain would have won if there hadn't been media coverage.
15889  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: GERMAN CHANCELLORS SURVIVOR- Round 22- come & vote ! left: just Weimar + Modern on: July 04, 2009, 01:46:27 pm
Schröder
15890  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 01:44:01 pm
Maybe we should legalize robbery and murder too. After all "everyone" breaks those laws. And clearly people who don't do now won't do so once it's legalized.

Robbery and murder aren't victimless crimes.

Going too fast on the road greatly increases the chance of an accident. Allowing drinking before 21 increases drunk driving accidents substantially. Smoking is bad for one's health. Of course none of these things involve direct victimization but society has deemed that the costs of allowing this clearly outway the benefits, which consist mainly of short-term pleasure.


Allowing alcohol consumption at all greatly increases the risk of accidents....why draw the line at 21? Why can't we just reinstate prohibition?

And speed limits don't have much effect on accident rates, as evidenced by most other countries that have sensible speed regulations.

Prohibition increased organized crime. Younger people are much more likely to be involved in drunk driving than older people.

If you're talking about on the highway, you're right, but on residential streets... no.



You're certainly right about prohibition, but why should 21 be the limit? Why does every other country manage with a lower limit? And you know perfectly well that very few under 21s (like me when I'm in the U.S.) actually refrain from drinking. Why should a legal adult that can drive, vote, work, sign a contract, own a gun, and fight for his country not be able to have a beer legally?

I accept 18 as a sensible age for being able to purchase alcoholic beverages, as it would then be directly tied to the age of majority.

It's true 21 is a rather arbitrary number. But if anything it should be raised, not lowered.

Comparing drinking beer to driving, voting, working, and military service just degrades the latter. No one needs to drink beer, we do need transportation, responsive government, income, and national defense.



I don't like the state telling me what is necessary or unnecessary. Perhaps you do.
15891  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 01:23:02 pm
Maybe we should legalize robbery and murder too. After all "everyone" breaks those laws. And clearly people who don't do now won't do so once it's legalized.

Robbery and murder aren't victimless crimes.

Going too fast on the road greatly increases the chance of an accident. Allowing drinking before 21 increases drunk driving accidents substantially. Smoking is bad for one's health. Of course none of these things involve direct victimization but society has deemed that the costs of allowing this clearly outway the benefits, which consist mainly of short-term pleasure.


Allowing alcohol consumption at all greatly increases the risk of accidents....why draw the line at 21? Why can't we just reinstate prohibition?

And speed limits don't have much effect on accident rates, as evidenced by most other countries that have sensible speed regulations.

Prohibition increased organized crime. Younger people are much more likely to be involved in drunk driving than older people.

If you're talking about on the highway, you're right, but on residential streets... no.



You're certainly right about prohibition, but why should 21 be the limit? Why does every other country manage with a lower limit? And you know perfectly well that very few under 21s (like me when I'm in the U.S.) actually refrain from drinking. Why should a legal adult that can drive, vote, work, sign a contract, own a gun, and fight for his country not be able to have a beer legally?

I accept 18 as a sensible age for being able to purchase alcoholic beverages, as it would then be directly tied to the age of majority.
15892  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Thomas Jefferson on: July 04, 2009, 01:17:02 pm
Guess.
15893  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: 2009 State and Federal elections in Germany on: July 04, 2009, 01:11:34 pm
Anyway, Lips is guaranteed to be reelected in September...I'd guess CDU +10 at least.
15894  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 01:01:04 pm
Maybe we should legalize robbery and murder too. After all "everyone" breaks those laws. And clearly people who don't do now won't do so once it's legalized.

Robbery and murder aren't victimless crimes.

Going too fast on the road greatly increases the chance of an accident. Allowing drinking before 21 increases drunk driving accidents substantially. Smoking is bad for one's health. Of course none of these things involve direct victimization but society has deemed that the costs of allowing this clearly outway the benefits, which consist mainly of short-term pleasure.


Allowing alcohol consumption at all greatly increases the risk of accidents....why draw the line at 21? Why can't we just reinstate prohibition?

And speed limits don't have much effect on accident rates, as evidenced by most other countries that have sensible speed regulations.
15895  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Voter Turnout '08: MN, WI Most; WV, HI Least on: July 04, 2009, 12:59:28 pm
That would make me pleasently surprised Smiley
15896  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What should be done about laws that everyone breaks? on: July 04, 2009, 12:42:40 pm
Maybe we should legalize robbery and murder too. After all "everyone" breaks those laws. And clearly people who don't do now won't do so once it's legalized.

Robbery and murder aren't victimless crimes.
15897  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Voter Turnout '08: MN, WI Most; WV, HI Least on: July 04, 2009, 12:41:45 pm
% of registered voters almost certainly
15898  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg on: July 04, 2009, 12:13:12 pm
I agree with what Ernest said, Stauffenberg was quite an opportunist despite his heroic attempt to kill Hitler.
15899  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Candidate Declaration Thread on: July 04, 2009, 12:11:13 pm
Why???  Well, for starters, what if he wins both elections?  I mean, come on, it seems a little desperate.  I don't think Joe Lieberman should have been allowed to run for Senate and VP in the same election, either.

Joe Biden did it as well, after all.

I really don't see a problem with it. You shouldn't have to risk unemployment in case you lose an election just because you have the misfortune to have to run for both in the same year. That's an unfair disadvantage.
15900  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Candidate Declaration Thread on: July 04, 2009, 11:57:08 am
If no one else runs in the Mideast, I may consider a move there as well

So, you're considering running in both elections simultaneously?  If that isn't illegal, it should be.

Why?
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