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17101  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: EFCA in trouble in Senate on: March 10, 2009, 11:58:01 pm
Business almost always wins, it seems. Conservatives have done well to equate Unions with Communism or something other.
No, Unions have a done a great job of making most people think they are all corrupt.  Of course they are NOT all corrupt, but image is everything.
17102  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: What percentage of people in jail are innocent of their convicted crimes? on: March 10, 2009, 11:37:27 pm
Yes.  Your cites don't say anything about what the overall rate of innocence would be.  Stats on over turned cases don't have any solid correlation with cases that were not.

That's what my second link is for, which clearly shows that the way police interrogate eyewitnesses now predisposes people all over to making terrible mistakes.
Clearly?  Assuming this is the site, nothing is clear there.
17103  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are we still at war? on: March 10, 2009, 11:30:47 pm
No, not for training.  We've had installations in Germany since 1945 that have cost us billions of dollars (again, you're welcome rest of the world), why are we still paying for them if we're not at "war" with somebody or something?  Same with Japan, S.Korea, UK, Italy and every place else enjoying the benefits of a nearby US military presence. 

Lets end WWII and the Cold War and bring our boys home.

Yeah, because there is absolutely no trade off for having a U.S. military presence.  It's all cash for you, baby.
Why can't Germans be the military presence in Germany?  What's wrong with Japanese defending Japan?  If they need our help, we can be there in short order.  That is our specialty and nobody in the history of the world has been able to project power better than the US.  It's not like Poland could prepare to secretly attack Germany without everybody knowing it.  This isn't...well, that's never really been possible, but with satellites, it's very impossible.

(if I misinterpreted your post, my apologies)
17104  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The problem with many Ron Paul supporters on: March 10, 2009, 11:18:21 pm
If you are wondering why everyone is arguing against you, it is because liberitarianism is essentially reverting back to humans being uncivilized animals, with no commanding authority except for those who are well off.
Totally false.  That is anarchy and is not what libertarians want.
Quote
The problem with my previous statement is that it is an oxymoron and I meant it to be so. Pure Liberitarianism can never happen and never will. There is no such thing as an abscence of authority. It is against modern human nature and can never happen without a destruction of civilization.
Why do people keep getting this confused.  Is this like when people confuse socialism and communism?
17105  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The problem with many Ron Paul supporters on: March 10, 2009, 11:16:23 pm
Among other things, libertarianism (as opposed to simple rightism or social liberalism) wants to completely eliminate all regulation and oversight of, generally speaking, human activities.
Totally false.  Do you want govt regulation of EVERYTHING?  Of course not and it would be insulting if I constantly insinuated that you did in our communications.  Some things need to be regulated, it makes life easier on everybody if we all (well at least most of us) agree that USB is a great little universal connection.  It would suck if everybody that made machinery used different sized nuts and bolts.  Imagine the carnage that could ensue if every house used a different frequency of Alternating Current in their wires.  None of these standards came about due to govt regulation, they all came from private business getting together to make life easier for everybody (consumer, manufacturer, seller, repairer).  Even still, I can see a place for govt regulation of some things.  Sometimes it's just easier/safer for everybody involved.  Most libertairans want LESS govt regulation, not NONE.
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This maintains a remarkably sunny optimism with regards to the human tendency for abuse of power. Libertarianism offers no protection against abuse by those already in power, nor does it really find such abuse to be a problem.
Totally false.  Why are people so freaking ignorant about this point?  A world with out police and courts isn't a libertarian dream land, that is called ANARCHY.  Libertarians (little l) want police and the judicial system.  If you abuse somebody in a libertarian society you will go to jail (or otherwise penalized), not get away with it because you have a bigger gun.  I expect this kind of sh**t from some people, Verily, I thought you were better than that.
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Rather, it argues that the free market and social pressure will wish away faults in human character. This extreme naivete (or, in some cases, such as those who few would benefit in such a system, self-interest) means that certain humans are free to control in a far greater manner than any current person or organization does so the lives of other humans, thus reducing humans' rights to life, liberty and property due to the world of thuggery to which libertarianism inevitably leads.
Except it doesn't.  You, just like everybody else, seems to think libertarianism and anarchy are the same thing.  They are not.
17106  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The problem with many Ron Paul supporters on: March 10, 2009, 12:21:42 pm
That the rhetoric of an ideology uses certain words doesn't say anything about its practical promotion of those ends. Libertarianism claims to promote life, liberty and property, but the reality of its claims reduces the level to which individual humans have rights of life, liberty and property.
Exlpain how.
17107  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Franklin Roosevelt on: March 10, 2009, 11:31:39 am
THAT is why you dislike libertarianism?  Wow.  That is just a smallish piece of a much bigger puzzle (and one shared by many of my Republican and Democratic friends).
17108  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Chuck Norris wants to overthrow the gouverment this Friday on: March 10, 2009, 08:40:46 am
I fully support Texas leaving the Union.
Sure, as long as we remain on good terms.  Of course it should take a very large majority of Texas voters to get there.

edit-that is my opinion.  If the US govt/military felt differently I'd still be against it, but I'd still fight for my country against them too.
17109  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Franklin Roosevelt on: March 10, 2009, 08:26:01 am
You know, one of the (many) ironies of so-called Libertarianism is that this ideological creed that places such emphasis on individualism is based on a way of looking at the World that denies people their individuality. In that respect it's as bad as Vulgar Marxism.
Explain.
17110  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: "Wikipedia" on: March 10, 2009, 08:22:01 am
Well, it depends.  I normally shorten it to just "wiki" and say "wi-KEY".  As in, "have you looked at the wiki for it yet?"  When I do say the full word, I do the wi-KUH thing.
17111  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Two British soldiers killed in Northern Ireland on: March 10, 2009, 06:18:47 am
Clearly the UK needs to invade Poland over this.
17112  General Politics / Individual Politics / Do private businesses have the right to ban head gear on their customers? on: March 10, 2009, 05:05:52 am
link
Quote
A Muslim woman was asked to leave her place in line at a credit union in Southern Maryland and be served in a back room because the head scarf she wore for religious reasons violated the institution's "no hats, hoods or sunglasses" policy, the woman said yesterday.

The incident at the Navy Federal Credit Union on Saturday was the second in a month for Kenza Shelley, and Muslim advocates fear it could become a problem nationwide as many financial institutions, intent on curbing robberies and identity theft, ban hats and similar items without appropriate accommodations for religious attire.

"This may be the tip of the iceberg," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations. "There's got to be a way to work it out so that this security concern does not lead to violations of constitutional rights."

Shelley, 54, who runs a day care out of her home in Lexington Park, said she has used the credit union in the St. Mary's County community of California for more than 10 years. Until February, no employees had complained about her head scarf, which covers her hair but not her face. But a few weeks ago, she said, she was standing in line to deposit a check when an employee asked her to come to the back room, referring to a new policy that prohibited hats, hoods and sunglasses. She complied but asked whether she would have to go through the same process each time she made a transaction.
17113  General Politics / International General Discussion / Pentagon says Chinese vessels harassed U.S. ship on: March 10, 2009, 04:52:52 am
link
Quote
The Pentagon said Monday that Chinese ships harassed a U.S. surveillance ship Sunday in the South China Sea in the latest of several instances of "increasingly aggressive conduct" in the past week.

During the incident, five Chinese vessels "shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters," the Pentagon said in a written statement.

The crew members aboard the vessels, two of which were within 50 feet, waved Chinese flags and told the U.S. ship to leave the area, the statement said.

"Because the vessels' intentions were not known, Impeccable sprayed its fire hoses at one of the vessels in order to protect itself," the statement said. "The Chinese crewmembers disrobed to their underwear and continued closing to within 25 feet."

After the Impeccable alerted the Chinese ships "in a friendly manner" that it was seeking a safe path to depart the area, two of the Chinese ships stopped "directly ahead of USNS Impeccable, forcing Impeccable to conduct an emergency 'all stop' in order to avoid collision," the statement said.

"They dropped pieces of wood in the water directly in front of Impeccable's path."

A Pentagon spokesman called the incident "one of the most aggressive actions we've seen in some time. We will certainly let Chinese officials know of our displeasure at this reckless and dangerous maneuver."

He said the Chinese crew members used poles to try to snag the Impeccable's acoustic equipment in the water.
That's very Putinesque, I wonder if they are talking?
17114  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are we still at war? on: March 10, 2009, 04:35:31 am
No, not for training.  We've had installations in Germany since 1945 that have cost us billions of dollars (again, you're welcome rest of the world), why are we still paying for them if we're not at "war" with somebody or something?  Same with Japan, S.Korea, UK, Italy and every place else enjoying the benefits of a nearby US military presence. 

Lets end WWII and the Cold War and bring our boys home.
17115  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are we still at war? on: March 10, 2009, 03:33:00 am
As long as we have troops overseas we are at war with something.  Why else have troops overseas?  We've been at war since at least 1941.  "war" has changed meaning a lot since 1945.


(except for training of course...we could send troops to Germany to train and not be considered at war.)
17116  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Hate the Rich on: March 10, 2009, 03:28:50 am
No, I tend not to be the jealous type.
17117  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The problem with many Ron Paul supporters on: March 10, 2009, 03:24:26 am
Yeah, I'm really curious how he came up with that line.  If anything libertarians are TOO into promoting life, liberty and property...to the detriment of everything else.  That's usually how the argument goes against us at least.  This one is weird.  It's like saying"the idea that Catholics in any way promote Jesus, Christianity or loving your neighbor is frankly absurd and is why nobody takes them seriously".

Maybe Verily is confusing libertarians with Socialists again?
17118  General Discussion / History / Re: Who was the worst Secretary of Defense? on: March 10, 2009, 03:12:41 am
The real tragedy of Iraq and Vietnam... and most history, in fact, is that people will learn the wrong lessons.  In both cases, it was how we conducted ourselves, not the action itself, that was at fault.  In both cases, huge mistakes were made after the initial phases, and a real strategy was not mapped out... and then each operation has a laundry list of specific mistakes.
The basic mistake of both wars is that the military was not allowed to run them.  They were ran from the White House and the Senate floor.  They were ran by the protesters and the media.  The politician's job is to tell the military men who to fight, they should then go hands off and let the military decide how and when to do the fighting.
17119  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: BBC America on: March 10, 2009, 03:05:48 am
The BBC is a news organization that is run by the state which might be a confusing idea for some freedom loving Americans.
fixed that for you Smiley


(yes I know PBS and NPR do "news" too, but nobody listens/watches that....and by "nobody" I don't really mean nobody.)
17120  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Venezuela slides furrther into the abyss on: March 10, 2009, 02:44:47 am
my larger point was that capitalism makes many people poor, and so they wouldn't find life under price controls or rationing really any worse.
And my larger point is price controls has made millions of poeple dead, which is much worse than being poor in the US in 2009.  Yes, I know capitalism makes some people dead too, but nowhere near as many as price controls have.
17121  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The problem with many Ron Paul supporters on: March 10, 2009, 02:23:44 am
Be careful, your ignorance is showing.
17122  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: What percentage of people in jail are innocent of their convicted crimes? on: March 09, 2009, 11:34:53 pm
Yes.  Your cites don't say anything about what the overall rate of innocence would be.  Stats on over turned cases don't have any solid correlation with cases that were not.
17123  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Forum Yellow Avatars Pot and Guns Jamboree on: March 09, 2009, 11:18:58 pm
Oh goody, I wouldn't want to miss this. I brought a small portion of my personal stash, if anyone wishes to partake.


Wowzers!
17124  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Forum Yellow Avatars Pot and Guns Jamboree on: March 09, 2009, 08:02:34 am
Aye.  We might not smoke pot or own guns, but we strongly believe in the right to have both.  Probably not a good idea to use both at the same time though, especially when traveling.



....that was a very interesting day on the subway.
17125  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: The Fairness Doctrine on: March 09, 2009, 07:53:47 am
Mixed. On the one hand, there is no absolute right to broadcast and say whatever you want on publically owned airwaves.

Does that mean there isn't a right to say whatever you want on public property? If so, then that is a clear violation of the First Amendment.

No, what is occuring is more like this - someone is leasing the public property and then making sure that only their opinions are heard there.  Of course you can say whatever you like, but the issue is that the rightwing owners are ensuring that others may not say whatever they like on the public property that they control.
That is such a BS argument.  If a lefty could make radio work, they'd be on the radio.  For whatever reason, leftys don't want to get their propaganda while they drive to work and rightys do.  Trying to regulate that into something "fair" sets a horrible precedence that will bite you in the ass one day.
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