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26  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of MY version of ProLife on: January 16, 2017, 03:40:33 pm
There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!

It's a new life and a unique individual organism, biologically and genetically human. It's not dumb to see value in that. Your view of what imparts value to human life just happens to be more limited.
But until they implant, they won't necessarily grow and are in the same boat of any cell whose nucleus could be transplamted into an egg.

A rat, a sailor, and a treasure map may all be in the same boat, doesn't mean there's no difference between them.  but it's not the same boat anyway, not even the same ocean.

You took a metaphoric phrase way too literally.

Perhaps I took it too metaphorically?  Being in the same boat generally means to be in a similar position. I'm saying it isn't really a similar position, and even if it were, the question is not one of position but of substance and identity.
27  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Party Focus Question on: January 16, 2017, 03:37:31 pm
Here's a good description.

If I had to take one issue with it, I'd say I wish he gave more importance to the moral tenets that underscore neoliberalism (namely the idea that the value of anything - including human beings - is determined by "the market", ie by how much people are willing to pay for it). This is why you end up with beliefs that the rich and successful ought to be admired, and that the poor are undeserving moochers. It's the ultimate conflation of might and right.

I think using "neoliberalism" to describe all of this has the danger of conflating a cluster of economic theories, particular policies and institutions, and these moral tenets you are describing.  These things don't necessarily run together, and in fact may diverge quite considerably.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Atlanta's Precinct Map and surrounding area on: January 16, 2017, 03:26:01 am
Dem Atlanta metro looks like a heart.
29  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Better alternative journalism program: The Young Turks or One America News? on: January 16, 2017, 03:11:38 am
OAN is actually on cable.

Is it?  I've never heard of it.

There's some channel, Fusion I think it's called? that has YT on it.
30  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Minneapolis' Museum of Russian Art be closed? on: January 16, 2017, 03:06:06 am
We're also not in a world war with Russia and God willing will continue to not be in a world war with Russia. You seem uninterested in continuing to not be in a world war with Russia.

In every single act of conflict involving Russia, Russia has been the aggressor.

Mongols, Napoleon and Hitler were just minding their own business.
31  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of the new FX show "Taboo" on: January 16, 2017, 02:40:30 am
I'm interested, but I'm a little scared of it. Seems intense.
32  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Party Focus Question on: January 16, 2017, 02:35:09 am
We should through this dichotomy out the window, along with vague polemic uses of the term "neoliberalism."

There's nothing vague about neoliberalism. It's a very specific, very definite set of political, economic and moral beliefs and assumptions with a very narrow base of advocates (although a plethora of useful idiots) and translating into very concrete policies.

That's a rather vague description for something so specific.

The term over the decades has meant social market ordoliberalism, been used as a broad category including both Austrian and Chicago schools - among others, a synonym for 'Third Way' Blairites and New Democrats , and now whatever this thing is that you are talking about. The term is more confusing than enlightening.
33  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of MY version of ProLife on: January 16, 2017, 01:49:56 am
There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!

It's a new life and a unique individual organism, biologically and genetically human. It's not dumb to see value in that. Your view of what imparts value to human life just happens to be more limited.
But until they implant, they won't necessarily grow and are in the same boat of any cell whose nucleus could be transplamted into an egg.

A rat, a sailor, and a treasure map may all be in the same boat, doesn't mean there's no difference between them.  but it's not the same boat anyway, not even the same ocean.
34  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Cory Booker and some other Dems BLOCK Drug Imports from Canada on: January 15, 2017, 09:46:07 pm
This issue can't be that simplistic. Whenever there's left-wing warpath outrage, there's usually an underlying issue that none of them understand.

What is the underlying issue that resulted in Booker's NAY vote?

Maybe the fact that you'd have to set up an entire regime for monitoring these reseller websites in "Canada" to make sure they aren't selling counterfeit drugs, for the sake of purported savings that may never materialize. 

US has 10x the number of people as Canada.  Even if the US somehow was able to buy a Canadian supply of drugs for its needs, drug companies would sooner pull out of Canada altogether than lose all those US profits to Canadian price controls.
35  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should we require mandatory gayness? on: January 15, 2017, 04:22:57 pm
Yes, of course, unless a trans boy is involved, because *insert borderline transphobic reasoning about something something trans people still retaining part of the gayness from their sex being there or something that makes it obvious that the trans girl saying it is trying to rationalize the exception to justify non-gay feelings*

Huh
36  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Party Focus Question on: January 15, 2017, 04:21:21 pm
We should through this dichotomy out the window, along with vague polemic uses of the term "neoliberalism."
37  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Obama: No more free rides for Cubans on: January 15, 2017, 04:18:59 pm
I also don't see this as all together that shocking - it's the next logical step after ending the embargo.

How does this flow logically from that?  It's a completely different issue.  Unless we are saying Cuba is awesome place now?
38  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Obama tells dry-foot Cubans to get wet on: January 15, 2017, 04:02:32 pm
It's pretty ironic that Republicans are feeling under the weather about this. I mean even Cubans themselves are drifting themselves from the party steadily.

Obama is trying to reverse that drift, it seems.
39  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of MY version of ProLife on: January 15, 2017, 04:01:03 pm
There's a clear trajectory of something with its own set of genes etc. proceeding through different developmental stages between conception and birth that manifestly isn't the case with cells that have to fuse with cells from an entirely different person first. This has never struck me as a good-faith argument. Just say that brain activity has to be present for something to be a person, or that the soul enters the body at birth along with the breath, or something.

That is implied when one's rebuttal to a pro-life argument is "sea slugs are more sentient then embryos".

I know, but why go beyond that and start piling on arguments that are much worse to boot?

The other argument was a rebuttal to a counterargument. Frankly, its pretty dumb to seperate embryos from gametes. "Gamates are okay to kill because their just a cell containing the genetic information of one person. But embryos have genetic info from 2 people. And it takes slightly fewer reactions to turn one  into a conciousness. They must be fully human!

It's a new life and a unique individual organism, biologically and genetically human. It's not dumb to see value in that. Your view of what imparts value to human life just happens to be more limited.
40  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Obama tells dry-foot Cubans to get wet on: January 15, 2017, 03:11:34 pm

Sorry, I looked at the first page and  didn't see it. My thread title is better though.
41  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Cory Booker and some other Dems BLOCK Drug Imports from Canada on: January 15, 2017, 01:59:34 am
Re-importing drugs is a nice simplistic answer to high costs. The existence of a pharmaceutical industry is not necessarily a bad thing imo.   But it's at least as likely it would cause drug prices to rise in Canada (or even no longer be accessible there) than it would be to do harm to drug manufacturers.
42  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Obama tells dry-foot Cubans to get wet on: January 15, 2017, 01:51:16 am
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/12/509575935/obama-administration-ends-refugee-policy-that-favored-cubans

Quote
The Obama administration is ending a two-decade-old policy that allowed Cuban refugees to enter the United States without visas.

Known as the "wet-foot, dry-foot" policy, it began in 1995 under then-President Bill Clinton in response to a wave of Cubans fleeing the island in boats. The U.S. turned away those who were intercepted at sea ("wet-foot"), while permitting Cubans who managed to get to U.S. soil ("dry-foot") to stay and eventually become legal residents.

I'm guessing Trump could reverse this pretty easily if he wants to.
43  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Does Trump's rise prove the tea party was about race? on: January 12, 2017, 04:56:35 pm
I think the fact that the TEA PARTY DOMINATED GOP nominated first ROMNEY and then TRUMP proves . . . that Jonathon Chait should stay away from analyzing Republican politics.

-The Tea Party first nominated Santorum and Gingrich, not Romney.

Santorum and Gingrich were never nominated.    I was being ironical. 
44  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Which European country has a political divide most similar to the US? on: January 12, 2017, 04:24:35 pm
Belgium, in the sense of Walloon vs Flanders, due to geographic sorting and mutually unintelligible rhetoric.
45  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Senate "vote-o-rama" just voted to gut all provisions in the ACA on: January 12, 2017, 03:40:15 am
This is a short explanation of what is going on:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/vote-a-rama-senate-affordable-care-act.html
46  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Study: Conservatives are more attractive than liberals on: January 12, 2017, 03:27:51 am
The study looked at the attractiveness of politicians in US and Australia, both of which have strong rural/urban political divisions.   So it probably has to do with the nice healthy country air.
47  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Does Trump's rise prove the tea party was about race? on: January 12, 2017, 03:12:38 am
I think the fact that the TEA PARTY DOMINATED GOP nominated first ROMNEY and then TRUMP proves . . . that Jonathon Chait should stay away from analyzing Republican politics.
48  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Senate "vote-o-rama" just voted to gut all provisions in the ACA on: January 12, 2017, 02:59:56 am
Note this is a vote to instruct committees to begin drafting legislation on repeal, not a vote on actual repeal.  They didn't vote in favor of gutting all provisions, but they voted against committing to preserve any particular provision, allowing the committees free reign for now.
49  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Atlas Moral Acceptability Poll on: January 12, 2017, 02:51:07 am
I'll repeat this point: why do so many people consider fur to be acceptable? Do you guys know nothing about the process of obtaining it? Because the idea that you do know about it yet simply don't give a sh**t is really too disturbing.
'
Hello? 60 (!) people voted that this is acceptable.

I voted acceptable on the assumption that there are probably ethical ways of obtaining fur. This might have been a dumb assumption, and if it is, I'd change my vote to unacceptable.
I'd say that yes, there are morally acceptable ways of obtaining fur, but almost all fur on the market isn't actually produced ethically (as ssuperflash said, the animals are skinned alive), which is why I generally consider buying clothing made of animal fur to be morally unacceptable.

In the same way, I don't think eating meat is necessarily wrong or morally unacceptable, but since nearly all of the meat that's on the market right now has been produced in morally problematic ways, I refrain from eating meat altogether.
Not everyone necesarily believes in the concept of animal rights, either

Who mentioned "rights"?
50  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: This isn't okay on: January 12, 2017, 02:47:52 am
What does "unaffiliated" actually mean? Like, if you go to church at times but you're not a member of it yet you do self-ID as a certain denomination, are you considered to be unaffiliated?

Anyway, great to see quite some Congresspeople don't want to come out regarding their irreligiosity. It should not be normalized or promoted.

If this was referring to jews or muslims it would likely lead to a ban. This is unnacceptable bigotry.

Criticizing a religion or a lack thereof has not ever been banworthy here, but it's interesting that you think it should be.
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