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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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1  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Federalist Party: June 2014 Convention (48 HR VOTE STARTED, VOTE NOW!!!) on: July 29, 2014, 04:19:33 pm
Could we break the ten vote barrier for once? Tongue
2  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Associate Justice Torie on: July 29, 2014, 04:17:55 pm
Based on the responses here, I don't think reasonable grounds exist to vote against the impeachment. I think Yankee has the right of it, in that the Justice is impeached until proven otherwise. While Torie is clearly busy, he is also not doing his job.

I really don't like the way that is worded. I know what you mean, in that it states agreement with voting to impeach being the default position, but as worded here implies some rather nasty unconstitutional things if such is not clearly understood. Tongue We will make the determination by the vote.

Which gets me back to my previous question, was there any other instances of involvement in the Snowstalker case by the Associate Justice?
3  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation hearing: Snowstalker for Attorney General on: July 29, 2014, 04:14:21 pm
In your legal opinion, did Simfan resign from the position of AG upon swearing in as GM?


There have been a number of cases recently, do you anticipate this means the AG will be much more relied on then it has in previous months and do you anticipate being active enough to handle this higher demand?
4  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Assistance for Iraq Act (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 04:08:35 pm
The last I checked the legimacy of a government was determined by self-determination and a democratic process by which it selects its leaders?

You're a Republican in North Carolina. (I'm a Democrat in Pennsylvania). In any event, that is a very Jeffersonian observation!

If my plans had gone as I had made them back in 2010, I would be back in Pennsylvania by now.

I prefer to consider it Lockean as opposed to Jefferson, Jefferson was too favorable to arbitrary gov't in my view as exemplified by his shilling for Reign of Terror France. Anyway, it is not 2004 anymore Dear Edward, my taste for divine right Absolute Monarchy has waned considerably in these last ten years. Tongue So self-detrrmination and gov't by consent, guided by a firm adherence to equality before the law and avoidance of arbitrary gov't is where its at. Wink
5  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 04:03:49 pm
We did a STEM bill with regards to immigration but I don't think we did with regards to domestic education.
6  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Assistance for Iraq Act (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 03:59:28 pm
The last I checked the legimacy of a government was determined by self-determination and a democratic process by which it selects its leaders?

You're a Republican in North Carolina. (I'm a Democrat in Pennsylvania). In any event, that is a very Jeffersonian observation!

But if the last hundred years of history with this region has demonstrated anything, it is that we cannot pump money, guns, or anything into this region and force them to adopt democracy as we know it. That's because it evolved here and not there. Maybe in time it will evolve there, but for now it's a total waste of time and money to try to get them to evolve into what we are. It's presumptuous and wasteful. They don't want it - they're isolated and tribal. That's why it is "imperialism." If the Middle East fixes 75% of their problems and then comes to us for some help, it's a different story.

If we give money to one faction to fight another faction, we just create another generation of enemies and extremists.

I'll reiterate that 1.1 of the above bill has to go before I consider supporting this at all.

It is one thing to oppose giving such support on that grounds, but surely it is quite another to claim that the current gov't of Iraq is illegitimate?
7  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Smack Ain't Whack Act of 2014 on: July 29, 2014, 03:55:34 pm
I generally like markets, but there are some things that have to remain illegal for the public safety. We prohibit the marketing of unsafe products, of stuff that is environmentally dangerous and many other things as well. You are saying that maintaining illegality creates a black market, yes, but so does the taxes and regulations of a legal market. Is the creation of a legal market for hard drugs, which from the data Nappy posted is a smaller market overall then say pot, going to create enough a marginal reduction in the size of said black market when you cosnider the continuation of such as induced by the aforementioned taxes and regulations? 

Operations can only get so small and whilst you may reduce it somewhat I think you hit a situation of diminishing returns whereby it will hit that subert tax/regulatory regime niche, and thus further elimination of the black market by legalization is impossible.
Obviously the size of the black market will be reduced, because currently all relevant transactions are conducted on black markets. The point I'm trying to make is that if market actors can't take their grievances to a court of law without fear of being imprisoned themselves, violence will necessarily be the only available method of conflict resolution. Right now we have a situation where violent dealers can do whatever they want to addicts because a) the addicts are afraid to go to the legal authorities for fear of being jailed, and b) cartels can maintain coercive monopolies over large areas because potential competitors can't go after them for their acts of criminal violence, lest they themselves be imprisoned for drug dealing. Yes, taxes and regulations will ensure that black markets continue to exist, but at least with legalization cartels and criminals can actually be taken to court for engaging in violent crime, and addicts will no longer be at the total mercy of one monopolistic supplier.

Yes, but there is such a thing as minimum organizational structure and my concern is that the reduction will be neglible as that induced by the taxes/regulations will ensure that that minimum organizational capacity as wel las the violence connected with it maintains. I could agree to the legalization argument if I thought the marginal benefit excideeding the cost and here I don't see that. It is not like with pot where the risks are far less from wide usage and usage is high enough to ensure a significant reduction in black market operations. If you could show me some numbers, I would be open to changing my mind though.
8  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The Attorney General Renumbering Resolution (Final vote) on: July 29, 2014, 03:50:53 pm
AYE
9  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: End McCarthyism Once and For All Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 03:49:56 pm
Natural freedom ends where it seeks to remove those of another. A person calling for the death and destruction of another is not exercising free speech. And considering especially that this is Atlasia and not the US and and is run by DemPGH and Snowstalker, not Wilson and Palmer, I feel comfortable at least retaining the government's ability to deport a foreign national who has come here merely to call for violent activities to be perpetuated here.

Speech matters less than who is speaking and the position of that person in society. I can guarantee you that if a member of the bourgeoisie bought a media outlet and pumped loads of cash into putting out some nonsense about how we need to destroy Iraq or something, he wouldn't be deported. But a radical feminist agitator on the streets? Can't say the same. The problem with your ideology is that it does not recognize the very real power differentials that exist in society.

On the contrary a person calling for a war with a foreign country is calling for a specific foreign policy option and thus would be part of the debate, a serious debate but a debate none the less. If someone bought a lot of airtime to go on TV and call for civic violence or the elimination of a specific group through genocide, I would think that example would be more apples to apples. Nor on the flip side is a radical feminist advocating for violence unless they call for bombing opponents of their views or something.

The probelm with your approach not even ideology is that it always presumes the worst in motivations for that which you disagree with and thus leads often to similar such false equvalencies.
10  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: #420YES Amendment (debating) on: July 29, 2014, 03:43:58 pm
Windjammer?
11  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Railway Labor Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 03:43:00 pm
Must straight forward always be boring? Tongue
12  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (Debating) on: July 29, 2014, 03:39:18 pm
Well,
If there is a 2nd chamber, I guess they could elect their own speaker? Tongue

Of course. What would a House be without a speaker? Tongue
13  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: No Problem But You Pay It Act (Final vote) on: July 29, 2014, 03:38:13 pm
I think this can be ended now.
14  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Legislation Introduction Thread on: July 29, 2014, 02:49:47 pm
Why would we treat them any differently then the administration of election booths, Senate votes or a number of other instances where such is not considered the case until the administrator of said votes publically ends the vote and declares the results to be finalized?

Also, I must point out that it this is not a good place to continue this discussion.
15  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Windjammer senators vote ratings on: July 28, 2014, 04:57:03 pm
What is interesting to see is that the Federalist Party seems to have FULLY embraced neoconservatism since the split between D-R and the Federalists. They were before more a "big tent party" in regards of foreign issues. Indeed, Tmthforu and Maxwell (two former federalist chairman, and two former federalist senators) were well known for being quite libertarian on foreign issues. If I recall correctly, they both voted for the end of conscription for instance.

A big part of the difference is who is active versus who is not. Many of the more libertarian voices are less active now then they use to be, whereas Lumine and a few others are really on fire right now and hence the difference. But I wouldn't say the Party has fully embraced neoconservatism simply because it opposes some of the policies that have come through that have really shoved the goal posts in a particular direction, so much so that even shua is not even considered a libertarian on foreign policy as your data exemplifies.

As for my low score, it is largely because we have already passed most of the stuff I support that would in real life make me a moderate on the issue. I oppose the draft, but prefer to keep it as an option for extroadinary circumstances tied to a high passage threshold, so basically what we presently have as policy. I also voted for the End to Imperialism Act back when it first came up, but wanted some aspects of the text scaled back this time and thus I voted for the repeal on the understanding that DemPGH was going to redraft it in just that direction, though he later did change his mind. Tongue I also voted for some earlier rounds of spending cuts to the defense budget to cut out some of the excess, but at this point I would not support going further for fear of severely hampering our capabilities.
16  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Legislation Introduction Thread on: July 28, 2014, 04:42:41 pm
The midwest passed it here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=186690.0
The pacific passed it here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=186563.0
The mideast passed it here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=186552.0
The northeast passed it here: http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=187245.0

Unless the argument is that sirnick failed to close the Northeast's booth...

Unless closed, I don't think it is considered as having passed said region.
17  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (Debating) on: July 28, 2014, 04:40:09 pm
Well there we go again, we already failed once with the state moves thing did we not? Is there any path that doesn't run into that same kind of or similar resistnace?
18  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Assistance for Iraq Act (Debating) on: July 28, 2014, 04:38:17 pm
The last I checked the legimacy of a government was determined by self-determination and a democratic process by which it selects its leaders? Do you not believe in such as the determinations of a legitimate government, TNF? Was the US illegitimate because it was assisted in its Revolution by Dutch Oligarchs seeking financial advantage over the British, the French Ancien Regime's dwindling treasury and that also of the Spanish Empire, which still officially had the Inquisition as state policy at the time?

Saddam Hussein was a dictator who subverted the laws of his own country to seize power and used force, repression and genocide to maintain a minority Sunni Gov't in a majority Shia country. On what planet is that legimate and how on earth does the means by which it is removed from power, do anything absolve it of its inherent illegitimacy?

However bad a decision to invade Iraq in 2003 was, and it was don't get me wrong, nothing neither the mistake to go in, nor the poor planning and organization afterwards, nor the mistakes by the interim and early stages of the Iraqi government have any render it illegimate.
19  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: End McCarthyism Once and For All Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 28, 2014, 04:20:00 pm
Natural freedom ends where it seeks to remove those of another. A person calling for the death and destruction of another is not exercising free speech. And considering especially that this is Atlasia and not the US and and is run by DemPGH and Snowstalker, not Wilson and Palmer, I feel comfortable at least retaining the government's ability to deport a foreign national who has come here merely to call for violent activities to be perpetuated here.
20  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Renewing our Promise to Workers Act of 2014 on: July 28, 2014, 04:15:11 pm
I would also point out that the minimum wage is not a basic income grant either because you don't get it unless you have a job obviously.

Perhaps you should define what you mean by "basic income grant", TNF.

My understanding of it is as described above, an initially limited program that sought to supplement other forms of income and reduce, even elminate use of various other more traditional assistance program. The is no reason such could not thus be extended and expanded in lieu of further minimum wage hikes.
21  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Renewing our Promise to Workers Act of 2014 on: July 28, 2014, 04:10:53 pm
No, because a negative income tax is not a universal basic income grant.

TNF, such could be combined with other programs to produce a minimum income guarrantee as was disussed when we debated the Nixcome as being an eventual objective or goal. Perhaps I misunderstood those discussion, but it was my understanding that the minimum income would eventually form an umbrella under which multiple facets would come together ensure a litteral minimum income through one program or another or through more then one to ensure X amount was received.  

In fact, I recall it even being discussed that we could use the minimum wage in conjunction with various programs and the negative income tax the forms the basis of the Nixcome, to formulate a minimum income guarrantee initially to sort of phase it in. As I see it, we are just shifting the load from one leg to a another in regards to that original intended outcome.
22  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Associate Justice Torie on: July 28, 2014, 04:05:38 pm
How extensive was Torie's involvement in the Snowstalker v. Midwest case mentioned above?

According to both VP Windjammer and Justice Oakvale, he participated in what I guess could be considered our equivalent of oral arguments. Where there other aspects of this participation in the mentioned case?
23  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: IDS 1: Recognizing Excellence in Leadership Resolution (Debating) on: July 28, 2014, 03:58:45 pm
Quote
Longtime statesmen PiT and Jbrase are hereby recognized for their long times of service on in multiple positions including that of Emperor throughout their residences in the Imperial Dominion of the South

Could it be possible to include these minor changes to the section regarding PiT and Jbrase?
24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Assistance for Iraq Act (Debating) on: July 28, 2014, 12:03:22 pm
Dear Edward, ain't ye heard of paying it forward.


We relied very much on various illegal scams (in more ways then one) that essentially amounted to gun running, during the Revolutionary War. Tongue
25  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Associate Justice Torie on: July 28, 2014, 11:58:52 am
I would point out that whole purpose of the authomatic impeachment hearing was that such in and of itself would then motivate the posting of concurrences at the end of hearings as a minimum activity standard.

Here is something else that I would note, the Justices have made a grave mistake in reducing themselves to just that minimum and no more. For instance, if Torie was avaialbe in the first cited case at the beginning, public postings could be used to justify not impeaching him at this point, even if he technically didn't post a concurrence in that or the subsequent case listed.

This gets me back to first point, an automatic impeachment proceeding does not necessarily mean automatic impeachment. It becomes basically a trial where the Senate has to be convinced that he should not be impeached with the initial presumption at least being that the Justice should be impeached. My advise to the Justices is from this point forward, to post as much as is comfortable in the case threads such as to demonstrate a "presence", that could be use as a disuading measure if they end up missing two conccurences and end up in this kind of circumstance.  This was what I had in mind when I first voted for the Expectations Amendment.
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