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15551  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: 2012 COTU (SOTU) Speech to a Joint Session of Congress official commentary on: January 24, 2012, 09:50:59 pm
It's not about excuses, and you will never get any kind of amnesty.

He did not argue for amnesty.

Yes he did. If it doesn't include E-verify and a touchback requirement, it is amnesty.

If you think we can realistically just deport millions of people, you are out of your mind. Some form of amnesty as part of a larger immigration scheme is the only realistic, pragmatic option.

You insult my intelligence. Did you not read my post in the "Who won the debate?" thread, yesterday?

If it's in this particular board, chances are I didn't subject myself to it.

Find it and read it and you will see why I am outraged by your post. I addressed not only that but also the very tactic you employed here of creating a false choice of only two options and how it has contributed to public ignorance on this topic.
15552  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: 2012 COTU (SOTU) Speech to a Joint Session of Congress official commentary on: January 24, 2012, 09:42:26 pm
It's not about excuses, and you will never get any kind of amnesty.

He did not argue for amnesty.

Yes he did. If it doesn't include E-verify and a touchback requirement, it is amnesty.

If you think we can realistically just deport millions of people, you are out of your mind. Some form of amnesty as part of a larger immigration scheme is the only realistic, pragmatic option.

You insult my intelligence. Did you not read my post in the "Who won the debate?" thread, yesterday?
15553  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: 2012 COTU (SOTU) Speech to a Joint Session of Congress official commentary on: January 24, 2012, 09:39:15 pm
It's not about excuses, and you will never get any kind of amnesty.

He did not argue for amnesty.

Yes he did. If it doesn't include E-verify and a touchback requirement, it is amnesty.
15554  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: 2012 COTU (SOTU) Speech to a Joint Session of Congress official commentary on: January 24, 2012, 09:37:05 pm
It's not about excuses, and you will never get any kind of amnesty.
15555  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: 2012 COTU (SOTU) Speech to a Joint Session of Congress official commentary on: January 24, 2012, 09:35:03 pm
Damn, he just called out University's for rising tuition.
15556  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Who won the NBC debate? on: January 24, 2012, 12:26:09 am
Santorum, if only because Romney and Gingrich were absolutely awful and petty. That five minute exchange between the two on Freddie Mac irritated/bored me to no end.

Mitt dodged everything as usual, but the laughs he got when he said "self-deportation" were comical.

The concept makes a lot of sense. I have espoused it for the better part of five years as being the best way to deal with illegal immigration, rather then rounding people up or giving people who have broken the law in a serial fashion (Props to Santorum for pointing this out) a free pass and encouraging the next wave to come. I would have to say that the real winner of this debate was the immigration issue. Because for the first time we had an honest discussion that we should have been having all along. The only reason people laughed is because they have it engrained in their heards that the only two options are McCain/Kennedy/Obama/Bush or the Tancredo Hitler style racist approach. With a debate of four, two of whom are Romney and Santorum, the discussion has improved greatly on this issue. There is no McCain/Giuliani and there is no Tancredo. With Perry gone, there is no more talk of a Chuck Norris employment plan (Ranger Recon Teams) or bashing Romney for not racially profilling his lawn care workers. Get used to the term "Self-deportation". 


I think Romney's position of pro-legal immigration and embracing Newt's military only concept of a Dream Act, while still being firm in border security and internal enforcement (E-Verify) is a solid and well thoughtout stance, contrary to what certain Gingrich supporters claimed a few months back. And one that is still very much electable and not that desirous on Hispanic support (I can easily see Romney still getting a sufficient 39-41%, even with this position depending on the campaign being run and proper amount of definition and nuance being firmly established by Romney). Romney also appeared to articulate a path to legalization, that also included touchback or leaving the country and getting at the back of the line (The only way I would support a legalization plan). This explanation helps clarify what Romney meant in December 2007 on Meet The Press. Touchback solves the "Serial Amnesty" problem of creating the next wave) and is completely consistent with opposing Amnesty. Another alleged Romney flip flop can be tossed in the trash, though none of the Anti-Mittens people will notice or care. The question about supporting English as a national language while still campaigning in local languages was well articulated by Gingrich as to why that isn't hypocrisy. Unlike 2008, when that question was butchered and used as a way to bash Romney and others who were doing that. Ron Paul also had a good point about how Florida should have the right to do it's ballots however it wants regardless of what the feds do.

I think Santorum did the best overall. Romney and Newt kind of hit each other into a draw (versus each other) and put each other into second place to Rick with that beginning interaction. Ron Paul had some good points as usuall. However, if Mitt Romney wants to win Florida he has to do better though. He needs to win the next debate.

I agree with you on the matter, but there were nevertheless a number of people who laughed at the debate when he said it.

It is because they don't understand it. They think it is some kind of voluntary system which would be ludicrous. No one would voluntarily leave without incentives. We have seen the economic collapse provide it's own incentive and thus this has already happened in many sectors. Using E-verify, you spread that to all sectors. The thing about doing it at the federal level is that you can put in place a Guest Worker program and combined with a "Touchback style legalization plan" (legalize for a short time then require them to leave and get at the back of the line.), you can create a transition that doesn't leave you in a GA/SC/AL situation of economic ruin for lack of workers for several years.

If we had more debates like this on the issue, with more depth on the specifics, people wouldn't be laughing at the idea, they would be too busy thinking.
15557  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Who won the NBC debate? on: January 23, 2012, 11:40:21 pm
Santorum, if only because Romney and Gingrich were absolutely awful and petty. That five minute exchange between the two on Freddie Mac irritated/bored me to no end.

Mitt dodged everything as usual, but the laughs he got when he said "self-deportation" were comical.

The concept makes a lot of sense. I have espoused it for the better part of five years as being the best way to deal with illegal immigration, rather then rounding people up or giving people who have broken the law in a serial fashion (Props to Santorum for pointing this out) a free pass and encouraging the next wave to come. I would have to say that the real winner of this debate was the immigration issue. Because for the first time we had an honest discussion that we should have been having all along. The only reason people laughed is because they have it engrained in their heards that the only two options are McCain/Kennedy/Obama/Bush or the Tancredo Hitler style racist approach. With a debate of four, two of whom are Romney and Santorum, the discussion has improved greatly on this issue. There is no McCain/Giuliani and there is no Tancredo. With Perry gone, there is no more talk of a Chuck Norris employment plan (Ranger Recon Teams) or bashing Romney for not racially profilling his lawn care workers. Get used to the term "Self-deportation". 


I think Romney's position of pro-legal immigration and embracing Newt's military only concept of a Dream Act, while still being firm in border security and internal enforcement (E-Verify) is a solid and well thoughtout stance, contrary to what certain Gingrich supporters claimed a few months back. And one that is still very much electable and not that desirous on Hispanic support (I can easily see Romney still getting a sufficient 39-41%, even with this position depending on the campaign being run and proper amount of definition and nuance being firmly established by Romney). Romney also appeared to articulate a path to legalization, that also included touchback or leaving the country and getting at the back of the line (The only way I would support a legalization plan). This explanation helps clarify what Romney meant in December 2007 on Meet The Press. Touchback solves the "Serial Amnesty" problem of creating the next wave) and is completely consistent with opposing Amnesty. Another alleged Romney flip flop can be tossed in the trash, though none of the Anti-Mittens people will notice or care. The question about supporting English as a national language while still campaigning in local languages was well articulated by Gingrich as to why that isn't hypocrisy. Unlike 2008, when that question was butchered and used as a way to bash Romney and others who were doing that. Ron Paul also had a good point about how Florida should have the right to do it's ballots however it wants regardless of what the feds do.

I think Santorum did the best overall. Romney and Newt kind of hit each other into a draw (versus each other) and put each other into second place to Rick with that beginning interaction. Ron Paul had some good points as usuall. However, if Mitt Romney wants to win Florida he has to do better though. He needs to win the next debate.
15558  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Partisan restructuring proposal - Dissolution tracker on: January 22, 2012, 06:42:11 pm
I am fairly certain you will get what you want when it is all said an done. Look at this unexpected competativeness as a little entertainment.

Those who offer a blissfull and fun destination and insist upon an uneventfull journey to it, will yield neither the bliss and fun, nor the stated destination.
15559  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Kal's Amendment [Debating] on: January 21, 2012, 11:45:18 pm
The VP already has all the powers of the PPT and more at his disposal. They have all simply chose to let the PPT take the reigns of the Senate. This is entirely up to the VP and BK or any Veep could decide to do it all himself with the PPT becoming a mere stand-in.
15560  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: IDS January 2012 Regional Election on: January 21, 2012, 11:30:15 pm
Imperial Legislature:
[ 2 ] Yelnoc (RPP-GA) (i)
[ 1 ] clarence (RPP-FL) (i)
[ 4 ] Pingvin99 (NCP-TX) (i)
[ 3 ] Teddy (NCP-AR)
[ 5 ] write-in: Charles McNary
[ 6 ] write-in: Most certainly a tough choice.
15561  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The SC Election Day & Results Thread on: January 21, 2012, 06:42:04 pm
Quote
@ HuffPostMedia : Fox News' Chris Wallace: SC exit polls say Romney's big problems are 'he's a moderate and he's a Mormon.' #scprimary

South Carolinians sure do hate a Mormon.

Well, they were Al Smith's best state, with 91.4% of the vote, so I guess they don't mind Catholics that much.


More like they minded the damn yankee Republicans for burning down daddy's barn, even more.
15562  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Senate Protest and Analysis Thread on: January 20, 2012, 07:22:31 pm
I spent hours on this new machine just trying to get it to open the Atlas Forum, at all. I couldn't get on AFE/AFG, or the 2012 boards for hours after that. They just wouldn't load.
15563  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: OSPR Amendment #97495 [debating] on: January 20, 2012, 07:14:05 pm
Nay. Sometimes we have to put up with nonesense, for a good reason.
15564  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Ballot Access Law [debating] on: January 20, 2012, 07:11:23 pm
Nay, the dissolution trash has rendered this somewhat impractical.
15565  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Consolidated Marijuana Regulation Act [Voting on amendment] on: January 20, 2012, 07:08:03 pm
Nay
15566  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Fox News: Multiple marriages would make Gingrich a "strong president" on: January 20, 2012, 06:55:29 pm
I heard that appearently Rush claimed that his infidelity would help him with Independents on social issues. Roll Eyes
15567  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: RPP December Christmas/Holiday Ball (Voting on Dissolution) on: January 20, 2012, 06:36:17 pm
Oh so ing NAY, you can't beleive it. Angry
15568  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: RPP December Christmas/Holiday Ball (Voting on Dissolution) on: January 20, 2012, 06:27:41 pm
According to the terms of the bylaw, a valid motion for dissolution has been offered by Junkie and seconded by four or more members. As such, a vote shall be proceeded to by the chairman or his designee at any time. This vote shall last a week and require a quorum of atleast 50% of all registered voters at the time of the vote's commencement.

50% of all registered RPP voters no?  Considering the RPP is less than 50% of allregistered voters Wink

[/cautious]

Yeah, it is supposed to mean 50% of the RPP members - and only those RPP members can vote who have been members of the party for at least 48 hours.

Btw, what made you switch to "independent" so shortly before the start of the dissolution vote? I thought you said you wanted to vote in favor of dissolution?

Three years of typing "all registered voters" in Survey Atlasia will do that. Tongue Being after midnight didn't help.


...50% of all Registered RPPers. Those who have been registered with the RPP for atleast 48 hours prior to votes commencement, may vote. Happy? Tongue
15569  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Pelosi aiming to net 35 seats on: January 20, 2012, 05:58:58 pm
What a surprise "the only one left" is a congressman who lives in the same state or in a neighboring state. Tongue
15570  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: there is no pain, there is no plan on: January 20, 2012, 01:07:21 am
The absence of a plan, may indeed be so. But pain, oh no, there is pain. There is always pain. Pain can be found anywhere you want to find it. Typically, the acquisition of pain is unintentional for most people, or atleast so they they think, but it is still there and they will find it one way or another.

15571  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: NC Posters: How are you voting on Amendment 1? on: January 20, 2012, 12:14:44 am
Why are you on the fence about it?

Literally nothing would change if this amendment failed.
Gay marriage is already banned in North Carolina, it's not like this would legalize it if it passed.

There is no justified reason to support this amendment.

We all know MilesC56 and Klecly are eschewing rational justifications in favor of religious theocracy in 2012.

Bravo chaps, bravo.

I don't consider myself especially religious.

What's your rationale for still considering a yes vote, then?  (I think the religion issue is overplayed, since this is civil marriage, but I don't see anything resembling a decent public policy argument for Constitutionally banning gay civil unions [!!!].)

I don't even see why there is necessarily an inherent assumption that social consevatism must be religiously derived.

For instance, my motivations for holding the socially conservative positions that I have, has absolutely nothing to do with anything remotely religious, as I am very secular and at one point was even atheist.
15572  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: RPP December Christmas/Holiday Ball (Bylaw Amendment at Vote) on: January 20, 2012, 12:05:32 am
According to the terms of the bylaw, a valid motion for dissolution has been offered by Junkie and seconded by four or more members. As such, a vote shall be proceeded to by the chairman or his designee at any time. This vote shall last a week and require a quorum of atleast 50% of all registered voters at the time of the vote's commencement.

I designate Zuwo to start, manage and oversee the actuall vote, count the votes, and post the results in this thread, his authority is limited thus to these enumerated powers.

The more intense the situation, the more cautious I get. Tongue 
15573  Election Archive / 2012 House Election Polls / Re: Rasmussen: New Hampshire races close on: January 19, 2012, 10:02:26 pm
Opposite of what I would have expected. Both Democrats are incredibly terrible choices and Guinta is only somewhat better, but not much.

The best "candidate" is probably Bass, but he is in a more Democratic district and he has/had (what's the latest on these?) ethical issues.
15574  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What are you listening to right now? on: January 19, 2012, 09:50:38 pm
"Indiana Wants Me" - R. Dean Taylor



First post on my new computer. It only took me about 15 minutes to just get this thread to load. Tongue
15575  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: NY-22: Maurice Hinchey retiring on: January 19, 2012, 12:03:12 am
What about Ulster, though?
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