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15551  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 13, 2011, 02:39:51 am
Why do the skills or attributes that are acquired from military service have to be career specific to benefit someone in a certain occupation?
15552  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 13, 2011, 02:37:46 am
Is there a law that says he can't argue for it because of both? Your post seems to indicate he has to choose between the two as why it should be put in place.

There can only be 1 "crux of any issue".

A phrase which you first used and clarence never did, that I remember. He has put his main emphasis on economic benefits, but he has in no way limited himself to just that as a justification for doing so that I have seen, in my opinion.

A person can have as many equally important reasons for supporting something as they want.
15553  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 13, 2011, 01:52:55 am
Is there a law that says he can't argue for it because of both? Your post seems to indicate he has to choose between the two as why it should be put in place.
15554  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Cincinnatus for Senate on: November 13, 2011, 01:37:33 am
Just like something isn't working with that quoting job. Tongue


One of them days? Wink
15555  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 13, 2011, 01:25:22 am
I am sure any red blooded patriot would claim their country is more technology advanced because they do X. You could probably find some poor indoctrinated soul in North Korea who would attest to such. In order judge something like that, you have to have more objective criteria and analysis.
15556  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 13, 2011, 01:20:29 am
First of all to Chairman Sanchez, I am a proud veteran of the United States Navy, not the Army. Then again you're probably among the naive majority who thinks "army" and "military" are synonyms...

 As for Wonkish1...
I do not want to elaborate much on my time in Vietnam or the Navy as I don't want to 1) brag 2) bore you with details 3) relive some of the horrors I saw. Suffice it to say that I know the tragedy that war is and the effects combat can have on a person.  This discussion began with criticism of chickenhawks who send kids to war because THEY haven't thought it out as they have no lived through it. I assure you that any sentiment or belief I have regarding war or the military is more thought out than you could ever imagine.  Your rejection of my view as "stupid" and "not thought out" is immature and innaccurate.

Your views about the economic effects are precisely why I support it.  I disagreed with some others about this earlier but I look at Isreal as a model in many ways, their military as a perfect example. Do you ever wonder why Isreal is EXTREMELY productive for its small size? Why they have the percapita highest number of startups? Why they invent so much technology for military, health, agriculture, etc? Its because of the training and experience their ENTIRE citizenry has in the military.  Familiarization with technology translates into the real world, as my naval construction experience allowed me to have a long and successful career in construction of homes.

Imagine if every citizen at age 21 left the military with very high proficiency in math, science, engineering, etc. On top of that he / she had special skills that are applicable to work, and had the discipline and work ethic instilled by the military AND skills in health, fitness, dieting.  Of course, I also believe everyone should contribute to our national security by serving as it is the right thing to do, but the reasons above are some of the many benefits it would have for our nation's economy.

See Yankee the crux of this issue is economic not military(hence his military experience isn't all that pertinent to the discussion).

I didn't say it was either in relation to his experience. I said that in view of his experience, people would have a very negative view of you questioning his depth of thought on this issue.

As to this statement itself, I fail to see how the crux of any issue relating to mandatory military service is not a military issue. Tongue Sure there can are economic effects, but it is by defination an issue concerning the military.
15557  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Cincinnatus for Senate on: November 12, 2011, 10:53:13 pm
Endorsed


I'm not really sure how to read PM scores, but I'm guessing yours means: very economically liberal, moderate economically Conservative?

Something doesn't work with this question. Tongue



15558  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Presidential voting records of the hopefuls on: November 12, 2011, 10:33:43 pm
Did Romney actually vote in the Dem primary for Tsongas or did he just support him? Did MA allow independents to vote in either primary then?


Perry probably has voted more times dem. than rep.

Gingrich may have voted dem. 3 or 4 times, too..

He would have voted Ike, Ford, and Reagan without a doubt. Nixon sorta hated him, but I'm guessing without a doubt Newt voted for him over McGovern.

I was only saying that because the GOP didn't exist in GA until some years ago... he may have voted HH over Nixon, I don't know..

It's hilarious that the GOP primary has its most conservative candidates ever, and still a majority of them have voted dem. in the past:

Rick Perry supported Gore
Romney supported Tsongas
Bachmann was a liberal democrat
Herman Cain voted for Clinton in 1992
Newt Gingrich's from GA, so there's a high possibility he has voted democrat once or twice
Huntsman probably has never voted democrat, but will probably vote in the future
Rick Santorum is likely the only one who's always voted GOP, and Ron Paul votes 3rd party.

Newt Gingrich is not originally from GA. He carbetbagged there in the 60's/70's. He was born in Pennsylvania I beleive.
15559  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 10:27:31 pm
Good heavens Wonkish, the man might have legitimate reasons for holding that position, especially considering his experience. And if they weren't well thought out, it always a stronger strategy to let them put them forward first and then if they are, most would come to that conclusion on their own. By bringing it up first you run the risk of "being told" and simultanesouly having the focus shift to you and your style rather then the issue of compulsory military service.
15560  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation Thread: Benconstine for SOEA on: November 12, 2011, 10:21:54 pm
Aye
15561  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation Thread: Shua for GM on: November 12, 2011, 10:21:10 pm
Aye
15562  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Recall of Senators Amendment (Amendment at vote) on: November 12, 2011, 10:19:39 pm
Aye


The chance of risking an attempted power grab is too great to go much lower.


50 would be my abolute last line in the sand if this amendment fails.
15563  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: 10th Thrice-Annual RPP Convention (Leadership Elections - 48 hr Declaration) on: November 12, 2011, 10:10:51 pm
I could step aside given my unpopularity?

No, I don't want any of the current candidates to leave the race, I just want to see if there is anyone who is not currently holding an RC position interested, out of fairness. No reason to have double dipping unless necessary.
15564  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:48:57 pm
You see the media is like a machine and Reps aren't supposed to be Presidential candidates and thus they weren't programed in, so they are designated as Senators, instead. Tongue
15565  Election Archive / 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: PA-SurveyUSA: Obama/Romney tied, unless Hillary is VP on: November 12, 2011, 09:45:42 pm
The same week a poll shows the President ahead of the Republicans in Ohio another shows him statistically tied in Pennsylvania?  Too weird for me

There are two reasonable explanations assuming poll is accurate.

1. Issue 2 effect
2. A slight shift in the placement of these states on the electoral map for each candidate (something which was being discussed a few months ago when we last had Obama tied with Romney in PA but leading him in OH).
15566  Election Archive / 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: MO-Rasmussen: Romney up 3 against Obama on: November 12, 2011, 09:42:49 pm
Quote
Among voters not affiliated with either major party, Romney leads the president by 21 points.



Is he losing a fourth of the GOP or is the MO GOP that small?

Missouri has been drifting R in recent decades. Despite winning the US by about 5% overall, the President barely won the state. Missouri straddles the Midwest and has the political characteristics of a state in the northeastern quadrant of the US in anything north of a line from the southern edges of the Kansas City and St. Louis metro areas. South of that line it is basically Kansas along the US 71 corridor and Arkansas in the rest of southern Missouri.

The Missouri Ozarks are culturally very similar to the Ozarks in Arkansas and Oklahoma -- and the central and southern Appalachians. President Obama is a very poor match for this region as an exotic, cosmopolitan egghead... which is about like saying that James DeMint would be a horrible match for Iowa. Culture often decides who can win certain states. A southern moderate or liberal (Clinton, Gore, and to some extent Carter in 1976) can hold his own in the North, but a southern reactionary would do horribly north of the Ohio and Potomac. On the other side a d@mnyankee liberal is going to fare badly in the more rural parts of the upper South and Deep South. Barack Obama is about the biggest d@mnyankee that there is, and he won Florida, North Carolina, and Virginia by appealing to the parts of those states most like the North and to large African-American populations. 
 


What does that have to do with irreconcilable Republicans (to Romney) and or the size of the MO GOP in terms of voter ID? They may be valid points, but I don't see the relevance.
15567  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:31:54 pm
I love how people who never served in combat can be so cavalier in starting wars, and sending other peoples children to be possibly killed
The government is dominated by Chickenhawks...

Amen to that!  Pisses me off when Mr. Five-DeferMITT talks all tough. Hey Mitt- I fought, You didnt

Unless you want to require military service to be prerequisite to the run for President, it is kind of an unfair standard to say only candidates who are veterans can take a stance on certain issues.

I want military service to be compulsary for all citizens

In that case, you would have a situation where politicians would be more concerned with politics then national security interests when making tough decisions. The spectre of a 1960's situation would loom over their decision making.
15568  Election Archive / 2012 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: FL-Sen: Bill Nelson v. Connie Mack a tossup on: November 12, 2011, 09:26:47 pm
Mason Dixon - Feb
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=132127.0

Nelson 45% Mack 40%

PPP  - Dec 2010
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=129691.0

Nelson 44% Mack 36%
15569  Election Archive / 2012 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: FL-Sen: Bill Nelson v. Connie Mack a tossup on: November 12, 2011, 09:21:19 pm
I never actually bought thoose Polls that had Nelson winning by 10-15%. This seems far more plausible.

This is the first poll with Mack in it, btw.

Actually it is isn't. There were some older polls that included him along with Jeb Bush. Bush was tied, Mack was down by I think 8 or 10. With the others like Hasner, Haridopolos and LeMiuex doing down by double digits.
15570  Election Archive / 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: KS: SurveyUSA: Obama weak in one of his home states on: November 12, 2011, 09:18:45 pm
It depends on what kind of Democrats they are. In OK, that wouldn't be too surprising. But considering KS is near 50% registered Republican, I would say the number is too high.
15571  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:14:39 pm
I love how people who never served in combat can be so cavalier in starting wars, and sending other peoples children to be possibly killed
The government is dominated by Chickenhawks...

Amen to that!  Pisses me off when Mr. Five-DeferMITT talks all tough. Hey Mitt- I fought, You didnt

Unless you want to require military service to be prerequisite to the run for President, it is kind of an unfair standard to say only candidates who are veterans can take a stance on certain issues.
15572  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:12:54 pm
Perhaps I watching something else, but I didn't see much gleefull or giddyness about sending troops in the combat.  There are some candidates who are willing to do it if they judge necessary and others who wouldn't see such as necessary. But no one is say yea lets slaughter Iran, just like it would be unfair to say that Paul would let some enemy march in the streets in of NY if they wanted.
15573  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:06:49 pm

lol, don't think I would have gone there if I could. I am using dial up.
15574  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 09:04:23 pm
Screw NCIS I want to the see the debate. Sad
15575  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread on: November 12, 2011, 08:56:08 pm
The irony about Huntsman stance is that, if followed, it will do more harm to the free trade by turning more Americans against it. And eventually, you will have real protectionism enter the debate, and it would win big. If anyone is playing politics on this issue, in my opinion, it is Huntsman.


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