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15551  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: CURE Cancer Act (At Final Vote) on: June 03, 2013, 06:32:36 pm
Senators, this bill is now at final vote, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
15552  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Opinion of the atomic bombings of Japan on: June 01, 2013, 11:04:36 am
This might be naive, because I do not know which governments knew about the bomb, could have accessed the technology, etc.  

BUT, what if the U.S. had dropped a single bomb off the coast of Tokyo and let the Japanese know that without surrender that same bomb would be dropped on one of their cities.  You don't think that would've caused quite the stir?  

EDIT: Japan DID have a nuclear weapons program, but it does not seem to have gotten out of the laboratory stage. 

Was there a drawback to Japan knowing the U.S. had the bomb?  In much the same way MAD worked, couldn't there have been a policy of one-way assured destruction from the U.S. against Japan? 

Either way, the fact that this was a civilian target is insanely unsettling, and I can't imagine what the response would be today if, for say, Iran got a hold of an ICBM and decided to hit Boston.

If I remember correctly the council was at tie even after the second bombing and the Emperor had to break it in favor of surrender. I don't think a show like that would have convinced them to surrender. And an invasion would have probably meant far more civilians dying since the gov't was arming them and training them to turn every hut into a pitched battle with the Allies should and invasion come. It would have been like Vietnam but on a far grander scale and with ten times as many casaulties just among the Armed forces involved.
15553  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: When did Northern Democratic counties move to the left of Northern GOP counties on: June 01, 2013, 10:49:25 am
Senator North Carolina Yankee,

Obviously, it is difficult to generalize about who was more "conservative" or "liberal" 150 years ago.  Clearly, the Jeffersonians seemed to have been more liberal than the Federalists in many ways through simple application of today's standards.

I disagree with both the argument that the party's flipped, and the argument that the Democrats have always been more liberal than the Republicans.  I do object to the notion that Stephen Douglas was to the left of Lincoln (not saying that Lincoln was all liberal); after all, today's conservatives talk about "state's rights", and social conservatives use the popular sovereignty argument about the right of average people to ban gay marriage.  With gay marriage, upholding American values is an argument used by both sides; some argue that it is against traditional American institutions, while others say the right to marry is actually required by the American value of liberty.  Sure, abolitionists before the Civil War use religious arguments against slavery, and were often accused of being "moralistic."  Still, others claimed that the Constitution did not protect nonwhites, and in Dread Scott, SCOTUS ruled that blacks could never be citizens and that slavery was constitutionally protected throughout the US.  Republicans may have blasted "judicial activism", but Democrat Andrew Jackson did not listen to SCOTUS when it ruled that the Indians could not be forcibly removed.

So if I understand correctly, I think that we basically agree that modern definitions of "liberal" or "conservative" are hard to apply to the major parties of several decades ago.

I would agree that Lincoln was far more liberal than Douglas in terms of wanting to change the status quo, but for what purpose did he want to change the status quo? Hence my point. You can take an individual case and say X was more liberal then Y and be correct, but only situationally and in absence of the larger picture.

Politics is about uniting people of differing motivations to support the same objective. The Republicans had just as many former Jacksonian Democrats in its ranks as former Whigs, people who had come down from the Free Soil Party (which was marginally more composed of Democrats then Whigs I believe), and a large preponderance of the Republicans would have been Jeffersonians in the era of the Federalists because of that party's elitism and exclusivity. The Republican party was a mongrel party containing everything from rich business elites to newly immigrated German Socialists and Communists.  I would not argue that the later weren't more liberal than the Democrats or ninety percent of the people and politicians of the era. They opposed slavery and thus joined the party that opposed slavery. My point was that the Republicans were founded on a rather Conservative premise of restoring/preserving the union and its founding principles from the degradation of slavery's continued existance and the increasingly outrageous demands that is supporters were putting forward, the reason being that only such a Conservative stance would have a chance of uniting such disparate groups under one party. It did help that economic and demographic factors were blowing in their favor. I have stated previously that the Erie Canal (and latter the B&O, NYC and Pennsy lines) did as much to elect Lincoln as Dred Scott, by means of linking the economic interests of states like ILL and IN with New York City, as opposed to New Orleans. Without that, an all northern electoral alliance would not have been possible.

I don't get what your point about the Supreme Court. The example of Jackson is a case where the court did its job and Jackson ignored it. The other is a example of the court not doing its job, yet its ruling being respected evenly while criticized by the Republicans. I don't see what point you are trying to make from that. As I would see it, a Conservative who was trully faithful to what he believed would fault Jackson for an abuse of power in the former and fault the court for its flawed ruling in the latter. A conservative by nearly any definition as a coherent ideology and not some issue by issue relative distinction would reach that conclusion.

While I am one the matter of relativism, I should state once more that Conservatism is often defined by what the left is doing. When it wanted excess of democracy and not enough Gov't, you had the Federalists in response and when it wanted excessively large gov't you have the Conservatism that has existed since the Depression (and in some ways since 1896 or at least 1920).

I would have responded sooner, but May was a bad time you see. Tongue
15554  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: 1936 - beginning of the rural urban divide? on: June 01, 2013, 10:15:20 am
It is a reflection of the growth of unionization and the the African American vote shifting from about 65-35 Republican to 65-35 Democrat.
15555  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: is there some reason why Broward County used to be republican on: June 01, 2013, 10:12:03 am
Midwest and Northeast transplants helped form the basis for the Sunbelt GOP and they went first to areas of population and then moved out in a delayed white flight situation like other cities and thus the present results in many of these southern cities now, that were once heavily Republican just twenty or thirty years ago.

Also a lot of your commerically oriented Southerners, who had been Democrats since the Civil War began to vote more on economic issues during this period now that neither party could be trusted on race thus removing it as a means of retaining their support for the party that was mostly contrary to their economic interests post New Deal.

These two factors were the driving force behind the GOP support in Southern cities and suburban areas in the power war period. Transplanted Republicans and disaffected Bourbon Democrats.
15556  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Opinion of the atomic bombings of Japan on: June 01, 2013, 10:00:54 am
Some combination of one or three.

I don't think Japan wouldn't have surrendered otherwise and the massive amounts of dead on both sides with an invasion would be unthinkable, possibly in the millions when you consider civilians.
15557  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Thaddeus Stevens on: June 01, 2013, 09:52:12 am
FF to be sure.


Especially when portrayed by Tommy Lee Jones. Smiley

I finally watched that movie.  It made me even more of an admirer of Stevens (and Lincoln) than ever before.  I didn't even know that was possible.

I watched it two weeks ago on my birthday, it was one of my gifts. I want prequels! If Ted Turner won't complete his trilogy, then Spielberg should create his own, "Lincoln-centric" alternative. There is no better time for it than between now and 2015.

Perhaps even a spinoff of sorts about reconstruction that takes the same actors from Lincoln for people like Grant, Stevens and some others.
15558  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Canadian federal election, 1877 on: June 01, 2013, 09:38:35 am
I voted for Tupper.

Back in March, using the game "Rails Across America", I completed the Canadian Transcontinental first and then proceeded to force the bankruptch and liquidation of all three American players in the Transcontinental game before they could finish, using all sorts of illegal means to achieve those ends.
15559  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: IRS retakes crown as most hated government agency on: June 01, 2013, 09:11:18 am
I read the thread title and wondered how the IRS had previously been less hated than the monarchy.

One tyrant three thousand miles away versus three thousand tyrants less than a mile away.

I see your point.
15560  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: CURE Cancer Act (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 08:29:55 pm
Nix is now sponsor of this bill.


Are we ready for a final vote?
15561  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: ...Mental Health Reform Act of 2013 (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 08:25:12 pm
Quote from:
A BILL
To solve a growing crisis in the mental health of Atlasia by reforming delivery, access, infrastructure and seeking to address the stigmitization in society.

This bill is to be entitle the "Duke-Yankee 'Crazy on You' Mental Health Reform Act of 2013".

Section I: Infrastructure Reforms

1. Reforms in the Profession -
To Faciliate a System Review of the Psychiatric and Psychological professions the Mental Health Practices Review Board shall be established.
                  a. The purposes of this board is to review the impact of all current treatments and practices with regards to the treatment of and response to patients undergoing mental health treatment (defined below), as it pertains to the prompting of a general societal stigmatization of such patients.
                  b. The Board shall propose a set of recommendations to avoid and reduce the impact of the actions of those in the profession as it relates to the stigmatization, with an aim towards improving and refining current practices to achieve said result.
                  c. The Board shall be composed of members selected from amongst the profession within each region by their respective Community Health Partnerships with the aid of the respective nationwide organizations of psychiatric, psychological, and other professionals such as the Atlasian Psychiatric Association, Atlasian Medical Association and others as determined by said Community Health Partnerships.  
                 d. A mental health patient shall be defined as to include anyone who is suffering from a disorder that arises to the level of disrupting the person's life and necessitating treatment.

2. - Applying Electronic Medical Records to Child-Adult Services Transition -
The appropriate agencies in the Department of Internal Affairs administering the implementation of Electronic Health Records, shall seek to create a strategy to implement such in the areas of Mental Health, especially with regards to the transition of patients from children to adult mentle health programs.
               a. The Department shall have until August 1st, 2013, to compose said strategy with the help of the Game Moderator.
               b. The strategy shall take no more then one year to implement the necessary changes.
               c.  If the need shall arise, the Secretary of Internal Affairs shall, with the aid of the Game Moderator, inform the Senate of necessary Legislative changes in order to facilitate the necessary changes to acheive this desired results.

Section II: Access Changes:
1. Changes to The New Atlasian Healthcare Act -
         A. Alterations to the Community Healthcare Partnerships.
                   1. Within the Community Health Partnerships established under the National Health Care Act for each region, there shall be have a section focused solely on the Mental Healthcare providers and services.
                   2. The leader of this section shall serve as a member of the board of said Partnership, as a non-executive member.
                  3. The head of this section shall be selected by the Healthcare Directorate, similar tho other members of the Community Health Partnership.

Section III: Awarenes and Education
To increase awareness and understanding of role of general treatment by society with regards to mental health, the following actions will be pursued.

1. To promote general understanding of the necessities of promoting general knowledge and understanding as it relates to this issue, the regions shall compose recommended curriculum changes necessary to promote these stated ends.
                a.
                b.

2. A general public campaign shall be launched in each region in order to discourage bullying and reduce seek to promote support for and reduction of stigma towards mental health patients.
               a. $800 million shall be distributed by the Department of Internal Affairs to fund these campaigns.
               b. The Department shall monitor and regulate the use of funds to preserve proper usage, with the ability to withhold funding from a region who fails to properly appropriate these funds.
               c. The Regions shall be allowed to coordinate these and even combine with current such programs, provided that they do not use the funds to displace current for such efforts as a means to misuse the money. The Department shall established a set of standards and be empowered to without the funds as established in clause b, should such be the case.

3. To Review the treatment of mental health in the general media, a commission of mental health and media experts shall be empanelled to review the impacts of the treatment of mental health patients and the effect it has towards generating stigmatization.
                a. This shall be called the Media and Mental Heath Stigmitization Commission
                b. It shall be empanelled under the direction of the appropriate agencies in the Deparment of Internal Affairs and be evenly comprised of mental health and media experts
                c. The Commission shall propose recommendations for news media and other media venues (as deemed practical) to reduce and stop those actions that contribute to the problem of general stigmatization, while acknowledging that none of these actions shall be binding or have any means of force behind them.

Section IV: Support for Family Members

Section V: Research
1. The National Institute of Mental Health shall create a sub organization devoted to insuring the availability of latest approved research to mental health professionals. This agency shall be appropriated $100 million for these purposes.
                    a. The appropriate agencies shall review the approval process and make improvements so as to speed the authorization without reducing the quality of treatment.
                    b. The Department of Internal Affairs shall oversee the creation of a commission to provide an independent review and likewise provide a list of recommended changes so as to further effect the same result.

2. $500 million shall be appopriated to the National Institute of Mental Health to boast research into the following areas:  
             a. Disparites between minority groups and the general population
             b. Long term effects of medications currently in use to treat such illnesses
             c. Impact of traumatic events, either physical or emotion in the development of mental illness
             d. Effectiveness of acute treatment of mental health patients
             e. Effectiveness of alternative treatments

3. Lastly, the National Institute of Mental Health shall research the effects of requring parity on the part of private insurers and impact on quality of treatment.
15562  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Federalist Convention—LITTLE ROCK, AR (By-Law Vote—READ THE DAMN THINGS FIRST!) on: May 31, 2013, 08:01:01 pm
I second Charleston, SC.
15563  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: Gov't Oversight and Reform (Recommendations) on: May 31, 2013, 07:56:07 pm
Which of the four above items should we proceed with first (Topic Queue)

I added the ones from thel ast committee and then also included the Legislative Introduction Amendment as well.
15564  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: Judiciary (JUSTICES' IMPEACHMENT HEARING) on: May 31, 2013, 07:46:56 pm
Yes, the whole reason for involving the committee at all when we amended the process last year was to keep rogue impeachment articles from reacing the Senate. I think Worms tried to impeach Polnut or someone last year and Ebowed just ignored it. It was a trade off. We strengthened the language so that they can't be ignored, but on the flip side, they were to be approved by the committee before they reached the floor so the rogue articles would be canned. That was the understanding I think that most of the Senate was opperating on when it was so modified.


How is this supposed to work. Ebowed is supposed to preside over all impeachments save for himself, so he has to preside over Bgwah' and Opebo's. I have to preside over Ebowed's. Then suppose we were to impeach Ebowed first, and B&O are still underway, what happens then?
15565  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Re-consolidation Criminal Justice Act (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:41:07 pm
A final vote can be started on this by Duke at any time now if it is so desired.
15566  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Protecting our Service Men and Women 2013 (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:40:10 pm
Okay, whats going on here Duke? Is this finished?
15567  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: President Pro-Tempore Activity OSPR Amendment (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:37:08 pm
Okay Kalwejt, get talking here. 24 hours and all that.


I must saw I really love this. I can totally abuse section one to empower the Dean to start and end votes when necessary for instance. Kind of like how I abused my ability to split legislation to combine these together and give it single title. Tongue

We might need to clean this up some more.
15568  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / SENATE BILL: President Pro-Tempore Activity OSPR Amendment (Passed) on: May 31, 2013, 07:33:36 pm
Quote
President Pro-Tempore Activity OSPR Amendment

Article 2, Section 2 of the Senate Rules, Regulations, and Procedures shall be amended as follow:

Quote
3. In the event that the PPT should be absent by reason of having failed to post in the Atlas ForumAtlasia boards for a period of no less than 52 days, or declare temporary inability to perform his duties without being absent from the Forum, then the powers given by this Resolution to the PPT shall instead be exercised by the Dean of the Senate.


Article 2, Section 3 of the Senate Rules, Regulations, and Procedures shall be amended as follow:
Quote
1. If:

i. The Presidency of the Senate is vacant and there is no PPT in office or,
ii. One of these offices is vacant and the other office holder has been inactive on Atlasia boards for two or more days or has a declared absence or,
iii. Both of these office holders have been inactive on Atlasia boards for fivetwo or more days or have declared absences,

Then the Dean of the Senate shall be the Presiding Officer of the Senate, possessing all of the powers and prerogatives of the PPT.


Sponsor: Kalwejt
15569  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / REGIONAL EXECUTIVES: Expectations Amendment on: May 31, 2013, 07:29:42 pm
Now get this ratified, bitchez


http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=172234.msg3747878#msg3747878
15570  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The On Second Thought, We Do Have Expectations Amendment (STR) on: May 31, 2013, 07:27:13 pm
Quote from: Final Text
The On Second Thought, We Do Have Expectations Amendment

If the President, Vice President, or a member of the Senate does not post on the Atlas Fantasy Government board for seven consecutive days (168 hours) without posting a leave of absence an article of impeachment shall be automatically placed before Senate in accordance with Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution and thus considered accordingly.

Whenever a Justice of the Supreme shall have failed to participate in the two consecutive rulings issued by said court, an article of impeachment shall be automatically placed before Senate in accordance with Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution and thus considered accordingly.

Participation in a case shall be determined by whether or not the Justice joined, concurred, dissented or recused himself in the case thread, by individual public post, for that particular case.
15571  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The On Second Thought, We Do Have Expectations Amendment (STR) on: May 31, 2013, 07:26:16 pm
be patient, I can see it is passing. Tongue


Vote on Senate Passage of The On Second Thought, We Do Have Expectations Amendment:

Aye (7): Ben, Kalwejt, MaxQue, Napoleon, NC Yankee, sbane and Snowstalker
Nay (0):
Abstain (2): HagridoftheDeep and jdb

Didn't Vote (1): Averroës Nix (No Fair Nix, I have to copy and pase your display name so you not voting is a pain in the ass Tongue)

With seven votes in the affirmative and none in the negative, the Amendment has passed the Senate and has been sent to the Regions for Ratification.
15572  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Promotion of the Regional Government Board (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:21:11 pm
1. Only the PPT or VP can make that request.

2. A vote can be started tomorrow afternoon regardless, so since that is less than 24 hours from now, it would be a pointless move.
15573  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Resolution to Protect Wildlife (At Final Vote) on: May 31, 2013, 07:15:17 pm
Senators, this Resolution is now at final vote, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
15574  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Anti-Pestering Act (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:13:48 pm
Everyone done for a final vote when the time comes tomorrow?
15575  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: CURE Cancer Act (Debating) on: May 31, 2013, 07:13:06 pm
The amendment has been adopted. Nix's sponsorship has an hour left.
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