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July 23, 2014, 11:02:28 am
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News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

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76  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Federalist Party: June 2014 Convention (24 HR VOTE, CHECK THREAD!!!) on: July 14, 2014, 01:42:41 pm
It appears that 24 is too short and 72 is too long obviously.


The previous vote is long past time, and I try get back on later tonight to close it. Next we will vote on the amendment proposed by our distinguished Emperor of the Imperial Dominion of the South. Unfortunately, I have to get off prematurely then that I expected and therefore, as much as I hate delaying this further.
77  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Sanity in Foreign Policy Amendment (Veto Override at Vote) on: July 14, 2014, 01:34:35 pm
Rather Reluctant Aye
78  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Ukrainian Technical, Economical and Military Aid (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 01:33:22 pm
Can someone explain the isseus with the top paragraph, I don't recall seeing them articulated.
79  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Emergency Resolution to Authorize Force in Iraq (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 01:30:30 pm
Just two hours and some change remaining here, if anyone still possesses any designs on the land between the two rivers. Tongue
80  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: GM Political Independence Amendment on: July 14, 2014, 01:25:56 pm
In atlasia, there is always someone to be found to bitch upon something regardless of what is done to avert it. Tongue
81  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Sweet Sixteen Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 01:16:38 pm
I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

Who said anything about legislating into existance? Does it not already naturally exist a state where people are older then children but too immature to be considered adults?

No, it's a concept that has kind of been created since the 1950s.

Would you care to detail how that happened?

Surely, there was some societal or culturally basis for it before hand even if it was the imposition of select few, it must have been demonstrated in some sect of the population.
82  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 on: July 14, 2014, 01:14:28 pm
I as well, provided they be allowed to experiment with some degree of competiveness using co-opts and such forth.


Dear god, its a Revolution here. Tongue
83  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 01:00:41 pm
I do thank the Senators for their posts, though I must say thaT Iw ould have preferred their be more then two of them in response to a PM I sent to all the Senators not yet opining on the matter. Tongue
84  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: End Sports Profiteering Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 12:56:54 pm
I support the amendment, since it reflects what I said previously. If I mistaken in that, forgive me for I can barely see right now. Wink
85  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Constitutional Convention Clarification (At Final Vote) on: July 12, 2014, 07:55:15 am
AYE


Getting Cincy to change this topic line will be difficult. I recommend PMing the other eight Senators.
86  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Legislation Introduction Thread on: July 12, 2014, 07:53:41 am
Quote
A Resolution
To amend the OSPR to further the replacement of latent incorrect references and define the terms of redraft votes.

Title: This Resolution shall be entitled the "Windjammer-Yankee Override, Redraft and Tabling OSPR Amendment".

Article 5, Section 2, clause 2 is amended as follows:

2. Extensions to this time period may only be allowed by the PPT President of the Senate in case of a publicly announced absence from the forum, if such are conducted in accordance with the standards established in Article 12, Section 1.

Section 3, Clause 3 is amended as follows:

3. A 24-hour debate period following the introduction of the redraft by the President shall be required prior to the start of the vote on that redraft, the rules for which shall be the same as that of a final vote save for it being just three days in length.

Article 5, Section 4, Clause 2 is amended as follows:

2. The PPT President of the Senate shall open a vote on the motion to table. This vote shall last for a maximum of two (2) days during which time the Senators must vote. Voting may be declared final at any time if the motion to table has been approved or rejected.
87  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Political Tracker (Advice and Consent) on: July 12, 2014, 07:22:13 am
Survey Atlasia has always caculated percentages relative to the number that voted on the question for that particular office.
88  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating) on: July 12, 2014, 07:09:03 am
Quote from: Current Text I think
The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform Bill: Part I

Section I
1. The following must be offered free of any additional charge by all public schools operating in the Republic of Atlasia:
a. A basic level of health care shall be provided by public schools for day-to-day needs of students and faculty. The intent of Section 1 Subsection 1 Part A is not for schools to become a primary health care provider, but to take care of day-to-day health related needs.
b. A basic level of mental health care shall be provided by public schools for students and faculty.  The intent of Section 1 Subsection 1 Part B is not for schools to become a primary mental health care provider.
c. On-site guidance counselors
d. Lunch and breakfast options must be provided by schools for all students.
e. Schools will provide tutoring services for students.
f. Schools will make a good-faith effort to provide quality on-site daycare for students and faculty if there is a demand for the service.

Section II - WiFi Expansion
1. $11 billion will be appropriated to ensure that every public high school within any area subject to the jurisdiction of the Republic of Atlasia has total access to a high speed WiFi network.

Section III - Expanded Access to Computer Technology
1. All public schools lacking adequate technology including computers and projects shall be eligible for a federal grant not to exceed $50,000.

Section IV - Textbooks
1. Each public school teacher will receive a $1000 grant for the selection of his or her own classroom textbooks.  These textbooks may be ordered upon approval of his or her district education board.

Section V: Financial Responsibility
1. The Atlasian Federal Government shall have full responsibility for funding the elements of this act. No school or school district will be held responsible for noncompliance with this bill due to a lack of funds.
2. No school or school district will be required to re-appropriate funds from other areas, or to raise taxes or fees, for the purpose of compliance with this act.
3. No school or school district shall in any case lose any funding required of the Federal government by prior law as a result of noncompliance with this act.
89  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The Windjammer-Yankee Dean Reform OSPR Amendment (Final vote) on: July 12, 2014, 07:00:00 am
Don't you mean 24 hours? Wink

Also, since no one voted nay, it isn't even necessary.

But I won't complain, it gives me more time for the next one. Wink
90  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Constitutional Convention Clarification (Not Voting, Debating.) on: July 12, 2014, 06:52:00 am
Okay then if everyone is statisified, Windjammer can start a final vote.
91  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Sweet Sixteen Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:50:58 am
I don't think that we should legislate into existence another class of persons without full rights, personally.

Who said anything about legislating into existance? Does it not already naturally exist a state where people are older then children but too immature to be considered adults?
92  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 on: July 12, 2014, 06:49:36 am
This is a simplification of TNF's original bill, which focuses solely on public utilities and expands the provisions in regards to setting a firm ceiling price for energy, which will eliminate price-gouging by private energy companies.

By pegging the cost of energy to a relevant and prudent size of our economy, we will restore sanity to a market sector that has experienced inflation at a rate of roughly one and a half times that of the general market over the past fifty years. Energy is obviously a prerequisite for any economic activity and as such, we should strive to ensure that its costs are at its absolute lowest possible. You simply cannot do that with a private sector model, as the goal of profit will always interfere.

You said the end goal is a "deregulated model" in a subsequent post, how does that square with the peg itself though? What regulations become unnecessary with this model? Also how would the peg itself affect supply?
93  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Fuel and Power Act of 2014 on: July 12, 2014, 06:41:19 am
I think techology has provided the answer to the natural monopoly status of power distribution. Yes, I knew we had the grid, but I do think there are other key aspects and of course there is the flat rate charge that should be changed somehow, since that would prevent competition.

What exactly does the flat rate refer to?

I was probably misreading it, but this line here: "The same rate must be charged to all transmission grid users." That is probably for the use of the grid though, and that would make sense in that case I guess.
94  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Bicameral Birthing Amendment of 2014 (Debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:34:20 am
You know I stated back in November when the first attempt at the Fix the Regions Failed, that the most Regionalist Senator was the Inactivity of Anti-Regionalist Senators. Tongue It appears the most anti-reform Senator is Mr. Generalized Inactivity. Tongue

The question as I last understood it, still stands.

Scott is dubious and bore is willing to accept bicamerialism for the benefits of the game. Bore, what is your thoughts on open versus closed list PR, if you have already stated a preference please link me, since I must have missed it in that case. Adam is pro-closed list, Tyrion is dubious about PR. Shua seems somewhat willing to consider open list PR and I am presently for open list as well. I would assume TNF is for closed list PR? I think I remember him stating so somewhere in this mess.


95  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The right not to get shot amendment (debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:25:37 am
Speaking as the presumptive SoEA, I must note that the right to bear "low potency explosives" poses a national security risk.

low-potency explosives are basically gunpowder and fireworks, correct?  Is there something else that is included in this?

I have no idea what "low potency" means in this context and I've never seen any indication that anyone does.

There are several dimensions along which explosives are often classified, including sensitivity, velocity, composition, and physical form. It's not clear which of these "potency" refers to.

Even if we could identify what this term comprises, we'd still need to establish what it means to "keep and bear" explosives. What limits on this right are acceptable, if any? The language of this clause ("shall not be infringed") implies that the answer is none.

Then remove or define the low potency part.

That standard has not been applied that strictly in real life though. hand gun bans have been thrown out, but most of them are counter productive or don't work anyway. A wide variety of measures remain in place including background checks, no?
96  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The right not to get shot amendment (debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:22:57 am
Here's the thing: why should be just prohibit the citizenry from possessing firearms? The whole notion that "only criminals will have them then" is ludicrous. Hell, even most forms of warfare in which we engage in the modern era are relatively free from guns. With the exception of special forces, there's no reason the state nor the citizenry should have them. After all, a first-world tyrannical government of the modern era would be more likely to drone or bomb its citizens into submission. In other words, the state already has a monopoly on the forms of power that it'd take to suppress an insurrection.

A tank or a drone can be stolen with a combination of tactics and effective planning in particular situation using hand held weapons. Surely ISIS has shown us that for a more recent example. It would be much harder to do that with only knives and hands. All insurrections are at a disadvantage unless some form of the existing military supports it like the Militias in the Revolution. Technology has steepened slope, but governments are still being overthrown in the world and technology can easily cut both ways in the form of hacking.
97  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The right not to get shot amendment (debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:17:37 am
As someone who agrees with you, Bore, I feel obliged to point out that serving on a jury or voting the wrong way in the aggregate can easily result in deaths. Until we abolished the death penalty, in fact, that connection could be very direct. Which isn't to imply that either scenario is comparable to exacting vigilante justice or defending yourself from the mailman's petty tyrannies or whatever odd scenario gun fetishists can dream up.

Yeah, and I'd bet that's actually true of most rights. For example the right to follow whatever religion you want could lead to someone becoming a member of al qaeda, the right to free speech could lead to suicides, the right to drive a car leads to road accidents and so on.

The difference being that the step from the right to do something is far easier to imagine in the case of the right to bear arms.

So it no longer becomes a right if it has the potential to directly impact someone? A gun can be used to kill someone, but it is not its only potential use and a guns job is what its owner selects. If he violates a law with it, then he subject to the penalties of those laws. If a man uses his free speech rights to insight a riot, or his freedom of association/religion to wage a war on some minority, then he too is subject to the laws he violates in so doing. I am still not seeing justification for this being regarded as anything different. 
98  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The right not to get shot amendment (debating) on: July 12, 2014, 06:13:15 am
I've always found the possibility of armed rebellion as a defence a bit perplexing. If the government really wanted to kill you, they could do so quite easily, whether you had a dodgy rifle in you home or not.


That would include certainly the right to defend oneself. All rights inherently come with responsbility, Senator bore. The right to vote comes with the responsibility to be an informed citizen, the right to trial by jury comes with the responsibility to serve on said juries when called and therefore the right to bear arms comes with the responsibility to follow are restrictions that are reasonable and do not form a conflict in my view this right, as well as to be well trained in the safe use of the weapons in question. We would not dream of removing the other two mentioned above, why should we countenance removing the latter on the account of it possessing an inherent responsibility?

The magnitude of responsibility in those cases is vastly different. If someone uses their right to bear arms wrongly, someone ends up dead, if people don't pay attention to the news they make a bad vote and someone incompetent is elected, if people don't respond to jury summons someone else is summoned.

There is a huge difference there.

As Nix pointed out, voting for someone who can vote to declare war or execute someone is a serious matter. Also failing to show up was not what I had in mind. A prejudicial juror can also send a man to his death or ruin his life at the very least because the man is racist, or sexist or whatever the case may be.
99  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: GM Political Independence Amendment on: July 12, 2014, 05:59:01 am
I first cut my teeth on this issue to some extent back in the day when bgwah reigned supreme (which was partly my fault) and ebowed was a GM who had done nothing since January (it was June/July) and we had no means to remove him in the Constitution.

Damn, now I am missing old Purple State. Sad
100  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Federalist Party: June 2014 Convention (24 HR VOTE, CHECK THREAD!!!) on: July 11, 2014, 06:09:59 am
We haven't really done any other issue that sort of justice.

Well if we are going to change that, the only way is one issue at a time. Tongue
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