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76  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Infraction Point System Poll on: July 22, 2015, 10:57:54 pm
I don't have a problem with it, really. Once Inks disappeared in a puff of logic and he was no longer around to give out 10-point infractions for piddling crimes, it worked fine.

Yes. It's also a very effective way to mute obvious trolls and socks.

Surely, that can be done by another means then having to assign 50 points to the post of an obvious troll or sock.

I say scrap it. It was created as I recall to reign in Hamilton and his socks though I might be wrong on that. And guess what, it failed miserably at this considering he went four years as a contributing poster causing no harm to anyone, before someone finally made the connection using posts from four years ago. And that only happened because of his concidental hiatus coinciding to the time that another unrelated poster was unbanned and then rebanned.

Since then it has only contributed to the sanitizing us of disenting political views and allowed people to take out their personal animousities in an attempt to drive up posters points.

77  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of banned posters: Bacon King on: July 22, 2015, 10:47:30 pm
HP.

You have to literally be the worst.

He was actively stalling the Atlasian court case in which you and ebowed are defendants (he told me over PM that he only objected to me being a juror because he was trying to get an "innocent by default" finding in every possible way), a clear obstruction of justice, and now we learn he broke the huge amount of trust Dave/Nym put into him when they gave him mod board access. He's an HP.

Back in 2009, BK refused to vote for me because she was refusing to vote for any member of my party on the account of the scandals that were occuring in the game. At the time it had the potential to cost me reelection. I didn't forget it but I wasn't going to hold it against her either and I didn't and later on she ended up voting for me several times, even once when she didn't even live in the region.

Objecting to your being a juror to prolong the case, was just her being a good lawyer, a good lawyer in a fantasy game. Just it it was her vote, in a fantasy game.

She made a lot of mistakes in this, which she freely admits and she is going through a lot of crap right now that most probably cannot understand or comprehend. This poor judgment came after years of solid judgement and valuable contributions to the site and to the game of Atlasia. Using this to judge her character is pretty excessive, more or less elevating a single action from a fantasy game to justify such. Sometimes, you have to keep things in perspective.
78  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Petition to unban Bacon King on: July 22, 2015, 10:31:04 pm
X North Carolina Yankee

At most this should be a de-modding and a temp ban.
79  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Petition to unban adamgriffin on: July 22, 2015, 09:50:59 pm
X North Carolina Yankee

I fail to see how immediate crisis management dictates extending beyond a temp ban for BK to at most plug the leak and then figure out "over time" who the guilty party is. I don't see why such ban first ask questions later approach is necessary unless they are in that first category that Alcon listed, namely Tweeds.

Nym, I know you are a reasonable guy and like youI too have a job and cannot devote 12 hours a day here. But its precisely why this site cannot afford this kind of approach. People don't post on AAD just because it is laxer and there are banned posters from Atlas past. Many of them post on there because this site makes them sick (as in sick to the stomach, not the head). It says something when people are intentionally getting themselves banned because they hate this place.

No one is bashing you for having a life and a job. But the quality is being drained from this site little by little. This is not the site I joined in 2008.

I don't know what assistance you say Griffin was "trying to conceal", but it it is litterally information that can be acquired through google, or something else of that nature, then his ban should be overturned.

Edit: And I should note that for the longest time I was pro-mod and defended the moderation team as a whole when such areas of criticism arise. I let my own accidental ban in 2011 slide, so it is not personal. But lately, it just seems like again and again the wrong decisions are being made far too quickly, and the right decisions take for ever.
80  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 21, 2015, 04:09:22 am
I in no way condoned the lack of process in this manner Nix. I had to work that day and so I wasn't here to be the first one to respond to Cris and the others saying "that is not how it works". Bgwah runs the show, etc etc.

Taking your word for it regarding the statement that you made. The question remains why you would claim to not be safe, call for my surrender when I am not resisting justice, whilst the real treason is occuring in the Midwest in open rebellion?

 If you were unsafe, wouldn't it have been from the people in open rebellion? If you were demanding surrender terms to be communicated to the President, wouldn't it be the one seeking to overthrow the Government, not the one being brought up on false charges, for stating a dire futuristic prediction in a Senate debate thread, by your administrations Attorney General? At a time I will note that said AG was also reforming a group that was once banned for the express purposes of destroying Atlasia.

For real Nix, what the hell did you think I was doing or trying to do? Did you blindly trust in Al or presume that I would suddently act in a manner that I have not in the six years, or both? What would make you think that I, having committed no crime and being persecuted by your administration's AG because of a personal vendetta, would pose a threat to you? WHo did you feel threatened enough by to leave the capital?

At the very least your statement, in the absence of anything from bore was completely irresponsible, and had a destabilizing effect. The "misinterpretations" as you call them of your words led some to question whether or not the administration was supporting TNF. 

The problem is nothing you have said make sense throughout this process. And so for all I see you doing is ascribing false motives to us in this process and claiming that refutes a given point.
81  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Childcare Reform Act (Debating) on: July 21, 2015, 01:36:42 am
Its unfortunate, but unavoidable.

82  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Office of Senator Lumine (Press Release N°1) on: July 21, 2015, 01:05:58 am
Since we have five center-right members, anybody interested in trying a Senate caucus or a conference maybe with Cris as Leader/Chair and PiT as Asst Leader/Vice Chair?

This has been discussed before but never really had much interest. Cris suggested something similar in January, but it was just me and him so it wouldn't have been much fun.

83  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Improving Access to Abortion Act of 2015 (Debating) on: July 21, 2015, 01:01:50 am
Guys,
This bill had been automatically withdrawn when TNF left the senate, considering no one moved to assume sponsorship in the 36-48 hours.
(senate rules)
Good to know.
Despite the fact that I'm pro-choice, I can't support this. It's really too extreme.

I just realized, after I lost in February, the only pro-life Senator left in the chamber was a leftie. Wink
84  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Next Chapter on: July 21, 2015, 12:52:17 am
I agree with Yankee and Leinad: there's no reason why the two games can't coexist peacefully. Perhaps we could even appoint ambassadors and conduct diplomacy between the two.

I mentioned this on AAD when an AAD sim was discussed and I think Earl was somewhat interested, but it got shot down amongst bemoaning how a lack of term limits destroyed the game. Really? We are fast approaching ten Senators having left the chamber since February. The only seats that have not changed hands in that period are Polnut's (Retiring) and Cris' (elected in December).

Anyway back on point. An interactive foreign policy that was more than just what the GM generated would add a new dynamic that is completely novel and original. I would recommend the mock Parliament go for Albion instead of Atlasia redux British style. That way we can have a post UK Britain and a Post US America.

You could do a restart here, even if not a full one, and thereby clear the foreign policy realm to completely make way for this new dynamic.
85  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 21, 2015, 12:44:19 am
Yet, oddly, no evidence has been introduced to that effect.

Well Mr Vice President could you explain this statement?



Only one thing has changed: I do not reject the reality Atlasia's federal laws, legal structure, and authority, but I do not affirm it either. More to follow elsewhere.

maybe you could explain why you believe it to constitute treason?


Treason is not a necessary standard for impeachment.

We have also endorsed in law and the constitution the notion of using it for inactivity (On Second Thought, We Do Have Expectations Amendment), composed by the esteemed man from Bakersfield with amendments from myself and I think Kalwejt. It has also been amended since then, but it is still present in the Constitution.

The creation of an activity standard utilizing impeachment, expands the acceptable range of usage for impeachment beyond treason, quite far actually.
86  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Attorney General Al on: July 21, 2015, 12:33:25 am
The Attorney General has charged people he disagress with and dislikes on treason. He has compromised the freedom of the Senate to freely debate legislation and used an out of context quote from a Senate debate thread to justify treason charges against myself. He has admitted clearly his personal philosophy, rending him unfit to engage fairly with the pursuit of justice and if such was in doubt, he has cleared that up for us with this quote from just this day.

Please please please. Incompetence? Outrageous! Malice possibly, incompetence never.

Malice with the implementation of justice is by definition incompetence when concerning a legal capcity, because the requirement is for equality before the law and fairness. He has demonstrated that he has no desire or capacity for such and therefore he has no capacity to serve as Attorney General. It is our job to hold him to account and to remove him from office.

There is no suppression of thought or ideas, once again we are seeking to remove an official who has rendered himself unfit to serve in said capacity, ironically by seeking to suppress other people's views and drive out those he opposes. This is not treason we are charging him with and a ban is not a potential nor a desired consequence. The transgression is a faily of duty and the remedy shall be removal from office.
87  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 21, 2015, 12:22:29 am
The sweet Justice from transsexual Thailand should remember that impeachment is Constitutional by definition. There is no judicial review of the process; it is totally up to the Senate and the people to interpret what constitutes an "impeachable offense."

And, for the record, until I hear Ben explain why he has introduced these articles, I'm suspending judgement on whether anyone should be impeached.

This was the Vice President himself, then a Senator from the Northeast Region stating his view in the Judiciary Committee of the Senate, on the potential application of impeachment when challenged by then Senior Associate Justice Opebo on the constitutionality of impeaching someone on the grounds of inactivity.
88  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 21, 2015, 12:13:04 am
We are not charging anybody with treason for their views, unlike a certain fellow member of the administration whose job is to fairly apply the laws.


We have had people impeached for inactivity and they were only saved once those positions were reformed to establish a concrete activity standard, as no doubt the Chief Justice and the Vice President will recall. So the standard is not treason nor anywhere near it. This is not real life I would point out and the standards are likewise somewhat different.

The critical point for me here is a refutation of law and once again we have the same old people using the same old tactics of putting words in people's mouths and outright lying. "I think there are some Senators who want to impeach bore". No, Mr. Vice President, there is no desire to impeach the President now that he has done his job, the same way there was no desire to impeach the Justices once they did theirs. Thirdly, you fled the country on the grounds that you "feared for your safety" in a statement which also as the only source of opposition a none existant rebellion led by someone who has consistently affirmed our laws, meanwhile a real rebellion was occuring.

You posted a very confusing statement demanding the surrender of Atlasia and for which your explanation just doesn't make sense as a logical statement, because it would have required me to be doing the same things as TNF, which I was not. Secondly you posted that you do not affirm the laws and constitution. You are perfectly fine to hold views regarding dissolving of the game and you are free to voice those opinions.

However, as long as you hold office you are responsible to uphold them and in failing to do so, or declaring that you are declining to do so, constitutes just grounds for your removal from office. Nobody is removing you from the game, no one is charging you with treason here because of your beliefs. We prefer to leave that up to the esteemed, intelligent members of this administration to do that to its opponents, in its various witch hunts, not us. We are merely acting in our constitutional role as the legislative branch to remove someone from office. Fleeing in a crisis, declining to affirm the law of the land even absent the call for Atlasia's surrender, seem like reasonable grounds for removing an officeholder.

Kalwejt, myself and and other members who are supporting this led the effort to reign in perma bans from a freakin game and have criticized the excessive nature of the prosecutions by this administration's justice department. Don't you dare claim that we are targetting anyone for their beliefs or trying to drive someone from the game. Maybe your friends roll like they, but we don't so stop presuming we are likewise simply because that is what you are used to.
89  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads) on: July 20, 2015, 11:51:57 pm
We need this clearly.
90  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Kalwejt Nomination for SoEA (Voting Open) on: July 20, 2015, 11:50:59 pm
AYE
91  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Attorney General Al on: July 20, 2015, 11:48:47 pm
I say proceed and vote to impeach him regardless.

He has had ample time to clarify and to post such in the proper thread. If he has not done so already then more than likely that is evidence enough that he has something up his sleeve. The Attorney General is a very intelligent person, and knows his way around legal procedures and such forth. He thus can easily reneg on a promise and use whatever convient loopholes available to resume his activities.
92  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Petition for a Constitutional Convention, that would reform Atlasia on: July 20, 2015, 11:36:05 pm
Here is what I would recommend.


A) Go through with a convention, see what it produces. If it goes no where then resort to plan b.

B) Pass FTR in two of the three regions that failed it. One is practically a lock for passage now, a second one would be if ANUS stepped back from the edge.
93  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Petition for a Constitutional Convention, that would reform Atlasia on: July 20, 2015, 11:27:36 pm
Whats holding back the convention from gaining support is that there is a split in the reform without dissolution movement.

There is a substantial number that is very skeptical of a constitutional convention and thinks they would have a better chance through the Senate or through the regions. I am pretty sure people aren't fully realizing just how viable certain reform ideas are now that weren't two years ago. All you really have to is read a map. Wink


Anyway, at this point there is a lot of confusion as to who should do what when. There is a desire to wait for the convention or see how it goes before persuing other channels, but they do exist. To think this game cannot be reformed at this juncture, requires the willful suspension of disbelief. Tongue
94  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Atlasian Republican: Official Atlasian News Service on: July 20, 2015, 11:23:42 pm
I concur with the statements previous to mine. A game moderator is a critical aspect that has often been neglected. If we collectively decided to respect a responsible and reasonable game moderator, we would have a much more fun game experience because so much depends upon that in order for the elections to be truly meaningful.


Anyway, great job Dkrolga. Smiley
95  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: The Next Chapter on: July 20, 2015, 11:19:18 pm
I am fully behind the formation of a mock parliament in the mock parliament board. Provided Atlasia is left to rise and fall on its own and not arbitrarily killed off. People can choose which games they prefer to play and some will chose both. A lot of people have grown tired of Atlasia, thats fine, creating an alternative will force Atlasia to improve to compete for players.

96  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Emergency War Powers Resolution (Voting Open) on: July 19, 2015, 11:49:31 pm
AYE


97  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Attorney General Al on: July 19, 2015, 11:43:22 pm
I would vote Nay, I can understand his circumstances even if I would prefer swifter action. And the last thing we need to do is to bully away the remaining people who are as committed to Atlasia as Al.

What about all the people he has bullied away.

No one is charging him with treason. He can stay as long as he wants. But Al is not committed to his job as AG and that is what matters here and that is what the vote should be based on. He is not extending the same courtesy to those he opposes, yet we must be concerned about bullying him away. Please.
98  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 19, 2015, 11:40:40 pm
FYI, I seem to have worded my post poorly because I did not "demand Atlasia's final surrender." I meant that we - meaning Atlasia - might need to *offer* surrender to Yankee if legal action against him was unsuccessful. (I hadn't anticipated that my words would be taken to mean the opposite.)

Surrender to what? I am not at-large. I am not engaging in any kind of rebellion. Has the echo chamber grown so defening that you are imagining stuff that is not happening? Were this interpretation of your post correct, the only one who it would apply to would be theo ne burning down damn country with the support of officeholder whose legal action you embrace. It is beyond clear that the evidentiary process for this trial against me is a total joke reaching as far as to twist a clear statement warning of the need to prevent rebellions into active endorsement of said rebellions.

But now instead your post was worded as if this were a cabal to take down the game, the AG's action was one meant to force acceptance of your radical plans and that I a mere member of the Senate had now come to represent Atlasia in the vein of the (ATlasia is basically Yankee et. al.) comments being made by several of your associates.

Regardless of how it was intended to be written, either indicates a breach of duty in my opinion and I will be voting to impeach.
99  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Vice President Nix on: July 19, 2015, 11:23:21 pm
Simfan, please grow a brain and focuse on saving the Pacific.


As I tried to stress last night and was apparently misunderstood. The Chief Justice is to preside over impeachement hearings, that includes the timing and votes. Chief Justice bgwah is a dedicated public servant and his demonstrated his capacity for fairness and reason many times over the years and as non other than his rival politically my view on his capacity should carry great weight.

Bypassing process, will only enable and strengthen the case of those who are seeking any in to undermine the government in game and the game as whole from an out of game perspective. WE should not be facilitating their endeavors by committing counterproductive actions ourselves.

Impeachments are in Article I of the Constitution. Its literally right at the beginning (well almost, you might have to scroll). Lets get it right.
100  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Article of Impeachment Against Attorney General Al on: July 19, 2015, 11:12:09 pm
If the so called evidence presented so far is any indication of what constitutes treason, then half this Senate will be up on charges as will a member of the Supreme Court, if applied fairly and evenly. Of course that is not the intent here, the intent is to silence opposition, to turn the Atlasian Senate into the Tsarist Russian Duma, where they are not free to speak ill of this cabal and their plans for this game.

A quote I made opposing dissolution, because it could lead to situations like thE Midwest (I gave a fictitious Northeast example though we have a real life breathing one in the Midwest now with the passage of time), is being twisted into an endorsement for such rebellion.

But this is not about me, this about the process through which we are to reform this game, through which we are to save and rebuild this game. Does Al really expect us to seriously believe the promises of an orderly post dissolution process, when even now we have an open rebellion in the Midwest? Does he seriously expect anyone to believe the promises of creating a new game built around his kind of attitude and thinking?

This inconsistency in application, amounts to inequality before the law, and undermines the basis for any democractic system to function. I am not surprised to see such an endorsement for arbitrary justice from this crowd, the warning signs have been there for years and frankly no one cares anymore to hold back so there are no more denials.

Al should never have been made Attorney General. His record of unfairness, abuse of people he opposes and frankly abuse of power stretches back years. If a man will abuse his power as mod to threaten people he doesn't like, how can we be surprised he will abuse such in a fantasy game? Now he too is not holding back, he reveals quite clearly his disdain for me, a disdain he has held for me from the time I joined this game. In calling me illiterate he has admitted directly what many have said of him for years. If you are not part of his clique, you are are a second class person not worry of being treated with equal respect. Why is this man trusted with a position that demands equal treatment?

I will freely admit that I went to far with my comments yesterday regarding the people who have propped this man up and along with it his dark vision of destruction. Al has never felt any oblgiation to extend the same kind of courtesy. I feel bad when I hurt someone and in a game where people can leave anytime we sure as hell don't need people who scream bloody murder ITS JUST A GAME whenever it comes to treating people like crap, but then go to extreme and excessive measure to get their way. What happened to it being just a game? Once again, it is not about consistency, it is about expedience.

I will be voting to impeach the Attorney General. And I hope whatever happens to Atlasia, be it a new game or this current one reformed, the no one ever seriously entrusts Al with this kind of responsibiltiy in a game. It is litterally self-destructing to the model.
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