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March 30, 2017, 07:43:39 pm
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News: Cast your Ballot in the 2016 Mock Election

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1  General Politics / Individual Politics / For Democrats: Which of these two positions are better "litmus tests?" on: Today at 10:40:10 am
?
2  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Rural Left vs Urban Right on: Today at 10:35:41 am
The one that doesn't try to gloss over its anti-poor, anti-masses agenda with liberal stances on the same kinds of social issues that IRL, have somehow become critically important litmus tests for 21st century Democrats.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Frank Rich: "No Sympathy for the Hillbilly" on: March 28, 2017, 10:17:05 am
I can't help but perceive an exploitative fetishization of black/racial minority culture by the same "educated" white liberals who unironically use the term "white trash."

4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Overall, do you trust the US intelligence community? on: March 28, 2017, 09:20:20 am
Mini-bump.

FWIW, I'm not sure how much I can trust a bunch of anonymous leaks re: Russia from mostly unaccountable agencies that were originally founded with (and which have spent the vast majority of their existence focused on) the not-so-implicit purpose of fighting the Long War with Russia. Especially in light of the very real threats that said agencies perceive with regard to the Trump administration.

And no, I'm not excusing the actions of Trump's people or the Russian government.
5  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Westminster terrorist attack on: March 23, 2017, 10:07:45 am
Additionally, IS/Daesh has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Of course they do.

How much you wanna bet that this guy was "inspired" by the social media feeds/videos of ISIS? I'd bet that at most, he was being given tips and instructions by an ISIS operative on Twitter via DM.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: CBO Report: 24 million more will be uninsured under AHCA by 2026 on: March 22, 2017, 10:15:10 pm
How many people enrolled under Obamacare?  It sounds like this is just getting us back to pre-Obamacare levels.

24 million people losing coverage is a bad thing no matter how you spin it. Obamacare should be made better and amended, not destroyed.

By "better" do you mean by raising the upper middle class's taxes more? 

We could probably get every single person in the U.S. on by simply raising taxes.  The Fed. Gov. has to make tough choices and balance everyone's interests.  Doctor's don't work for free so we simply need to find a reasonable balance.

By better I mean not stripping millions of their coverage. The AHCA is class warfare, a brutal attack on the poor, old and sick, who could lose coverage or have their premiums go up by 750%, and a giveaway to the young, rich and healthy who do not need help. Why are you even a Democrat if you support such an awful plan?

Because I was against the Iraq War.
I'm for gay marriage.
I'm sort of for abortion.
I generally believe in civil liberties.
Generally support minority rights.
Generally against a police state.
I'm ok with reasonable environmental regulations.
I don't like Donald Trump's attack on the media.

Though, this board does make me question why I am a Democrat.  I find most of the democrats here to espouse pretty pathetic political views.  It's sad that we have such crappy political choices in this country.

Re: the Obamacare/AHCA thing.  I support going back to what we had before this Obamacare mess started... a position that was fine for a long time in this country.

"people are dying but muh taxes are too high so idk if we should help them out"
7  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: David Rockefeller dead at 101 on: March 21, 2017, 10:15:08 am
RIP, Eternal Subject of Conspiracy Theories
8  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Tomi Lahren on: March 20, 2017, 12:52:03 pm
I don't watch...whatever media outlet it is she's affiliated with, but I haven't heard anything good.

Imagine a 24-year old Ann Coulter but without the "humor."
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Revisiting "The Mythology of Trump's Working Class Support" on: March 19, 2017, 07:33:31 pm
Or, "Why Nate Silver's Political #Analysis is terrible, n = 5383276899":

This idea (which I was admittedly guilty of supporting) that Trump did not have substantial support among (white) working class voters seems to have really gotten a boost from this article by Silver.

Quote
The median household income of a Trump voter so far in the primaries is about $72,000, based on estimates derived from exit polls and Census Bureau data. Thatís lower than the $91,000 median for Kasich voters. But itís well above the national median household income of about $56,000. Itís also higher than the median income for Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders supporters, which is around $61,000 for both.

A few things.

1) You'll notice that the data here is for median household income. A married couple with husband and wife making $35k-$40k each = a household income between $70k and $80k. Doesn't seem that impressive, especially when you consider that

2) Republicans in general (and Republican primary voters,  I suspect, in particular) are not only more likely to be white and have higher-than-the-median incomes, but are also more likely to be married and (at least, compared to white liberals) have children - which are very much relevant when discussing one's means and financial responsibilities...

3) Republican primary voters are better off than Democratic primary voters, both Democratic and Republican primary voters are better off than general election-only voters, voters in general are better off than non-voters...

4) Measuring someone's social class by their household income at a given point in time seems very...um, simplistic, to be charitable. Especially when we're talking about a very, very broad group of people in terms of income distribution, and with a lot of those people in the "vast middle" really not doing so well these days...

5) Compare Trump's voters to say, Rubio's voters, Kasich's voters, or even Cruz's voters. And compare the non-Trump Republican candidates' numbers among the more modestly educated (i.e. those who don't possess a four-year degree) with their numbers among the higher cohorts. I don't think I need to spell any more of this out.

tl; dr Trump did indeed, have (and has) an unusually (although not uniformly - something that we also must be mindful about) strong appeal among working class white voters for a Republican candidate, in spite of the fact that - like all Republican candidates - his voters still skewed toward the white and the affluent.

PS: F**k Nate Silver.
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Most Young Americans See Trump as an Illegitimate President on: March 19, 2017, 06:52:26 pm
Considering that the current President was politically rewarded in spite of his nakedly crass and racist trolling about the previous (black, Democratic) President's birth certificate and college transcripts (or let's be real, because of said trolling - at least, initially in the development of his recent mass media-based self-promoting political hucksterism, which quickly turned into a successful career as a politician (though what's the difference these days?)),  I think it's understandable - though rather petty and ultimately counterproductive - for a lot of Democrats/Obama supporters to feel this way toward Trump.

This is not a substantive comment, and I'm verbose enough to run the risk of inclusion in the Irony Ore Mine, but this is one hell of a sentence. I'm not sure that I could diagram it if I tried.

Fair enough. I am indeed, often too verbose. As far as the lack of substance to my comment, I don't think that debating Trump's "illegitimacy" as a President will produce anything substantive regardless, and I suspect you agree there.
11  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Trump resumes arms sales to Saudi Arabia on: March 19, 2017, 03:00:37 pm
OH, SA is trying to reform, partially and made a good first step through recognizing their own fault for creating a monster.



Yes, the House of Saud's leaders have recognized that throwing money and other resources at any and all of the Osama bin Laden types (and their wannabes) has been a Bad Idea for them domestically. Unfortunately, they're still far too scared of both their domestic Sunni clerics (as well as all of the like-minded clerics they've been sponsoring around the world for decades) and the Iranian government and the Vast Shiite Conspiracy that they sponsor (however exaggerated this claim is) in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain, and - most alarmingly - Saudi Arabia itself. For these reasons, they will continue to utilize the al-Qaedas and al-Nusras and ISIS types in their blood feud against the Shiites. "Reforms" my a**
12  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Trump resumes arms sales to Saudi Arabia on: March 19, 2017, 02:45:54 pm
Important ally against Iran. Good news.

Saudi Arabia  is way more radical then Iran

You have to understand that noted anti-Semitic scoundrel Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro was willing to  cautiously reach out to Iran rather than simply bomb them, so Wahhabi Arabia is an ally by default.

(Pay no attention to generous Saudi government sponsorship of the Death to Jews/Americans/Shiites/Sunni "apostates", etc. crowd around the world - which is especially relevant Europe! Gotta support our "allies", right??)
13  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Trump resumes arms sales to Saudi Arabia on: March 19, 2017, 02:37:46 pm
Important ally against Iran. Good news.

lmao
14  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Arab-Americans voters pre-9/11+War on Terror/Iraq vs. afterward on: March 19, 2017, 02:24:09 pm
Something I was wondering was whether Arab-Americans as a whole were not only more likely to vote Republican before 9/11 and the Bush administration's reaction to it (along with the rest of the Republican Party, broadly speaking), but also, whether Muslims of Arab descent were closer to Christians of Arab descent in their voting habits prior to 9/11 (and its aftermath) than afterward.

In other words, is there any empirical (or even anecdotal) evidence - that someone here could offer - whether Arab-American Muslims were, prior to 9/11, less likely to consider their religion (and more to the point, the strong feelings that they and other American Muslims experienced of being "Othered" in their own country, and the related popular fears and suspicions of being "fellow travelers" re: terrorism) as a primary (if not the primary) influence on their politics, and that consequently, they were closer to Arab Christians in their voting patterns? My suspicion here is that this was in fact the case, considering the apparently massive swing among Muslim voters from Bush in 2000 to Kerry in 2004. Note sure of that finding's empirical credibility, though.

Any more information on this would be much appreciated.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Most Young Americans See Trump as an Illegitimate President on: March 19, 2017, 01:51:44 pm
I still don't understand what it means to claim that a president is "illegitimate."

Considering that the current President was politically rewarded in spite of his nakedly crass and racist trolling about the previous (black, Democratic) President's birth certificate and college transcripts (or let's be real, because of said trolling - at least, initially in the development of his recent mass media-based self-promoting political hucksterism, which quickly turned into a successful career as a politician (though what's the difference these days?)),  I think it's understandable - though rather petty and ultimately counterproductive - for a lot of Democrats/Obama supporters to feel this way toward Trump.

(This isn't taking into account the griping about the Electoral College as well as the Vast Right-Wing FBI/Russia/WikiLeaks Conspiracy that supposedly installed Donald Trump as President.)
16  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Tomi Lahren on: March 19, 2017, 01:40:34 pm
troll
17  General Politics / Individual Politics / Was the 1850s Democratic Party conservative/right-wing by 1850s standards? on: March 19, 2017, 01:39:59 pm
Seems to be a bit of a contentious point for certain people.
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: New data suggests Hillary won white male/female millennials. on: March 19, 2017, 01:35:43 pm
I didn't say all of Generation Z. I said 90% of the white ones. If the generation is 55% nonhispanic white that'll be just under 50% of the total number of generation z will be nazis Tongue

You do realize that women exist, right? And that they're about half of any of the demographics in question. And that a bunch of racist trolls on the Internet =/= white "Generation Z" males.

While Trump has pretty clearly attracted some very disturbing forms (far-right) politics and thus, has brought them into the mainstream, most of Trump's voters aren't Nazis - they're Republicans. Hence, them voting for the Republican Party's presidential nominee. This really isn't that complicated.
19  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: George Washington vs. Abraham Lincoln on: March 18, 2017, 01:48:48 pm
It's difficult, both were fantastic, but I'd go with Lincoln for ending slavery and making us into a more unified country, even if ending slavery wasn't his original intention.

It's pretty clear that it was, certainly by the time Lincoln was elected President. The only really significant thing that he changed his mind on regarding slavery was whether it would be better to legally abolish it outright or just "let it die out" while abolitionists continued to grow in power and influence. By the time of the Civil War, I think Lincoln had become convinced that the latter was not going to happen so long as the South not only continued to profit immensely from the foundation of their economy (and more broadly, their entire society), but also were determined to expand it into the West. The question then became at what point should slavery actually be abolished by the federal government.
20  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: NonSwingVoter, RINO Tom, Southern Gothic -who's missing? on: March 18, 2017, 01:41:31 pm
Cathcon is either exactly what you're looking for or the opposite - not quite sure

-Is he a swing voter, though? Both RINO Tom and Southern Gothic are swing voters; NonSwingVoter doesn't swing. Like NonSwingVoter, this Republican should embrace the strategy used in 2016 by his party and like his local GOP than the national one.

My voting record--Kasich, McMullin--speaks to a very bland, suburban form of Republicanism that doesn't reflect my amorphous, ill-defined excuse for an ideology. It wouldn't be hard for me to vote for a pro-life Democrat. Were I a Trump voter, I might be what you're looking for, but as it stands I am not.

Low-energy! Wink
21  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Mohammed Morsi vs. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on: March 18, 2017, 01:35:07 pm
Kinda weird to call the military officers who violently overthrow (or attempt to violently overthrow, in Turkey's case) the leaders of countries who - however alarming in the ways in which they wield their power - were actually elected, as people who "promote some democratic values." And the main effect of these brutal coups is to not only give the Islamists significant fuel for their propaganda, but they also give much-welcomed legitimacy to the arguments of even (perhaps especially) the most violent of Islamists.

There's a very credible argument to be made that this is exactly what has happened in much of the Middle East, as despotic leaders who promote "secularism" at the barrel of a gun and by imprisoning, torturing, and/or murdering even the most nonviolent of dissidents. The fact that the United States and other Western powers have tacitly or even overtly supported many of these regimes over the course of recent (Cold War) history has done promoters of liberal "Western-style" democracy no favors in this part of the world. People don't only have long memories in these countries, there are literally many people alive who grew up under this history. They've certainly taught this history to their children and grandchildren. And yes, as CrabCake alluded to in this thread, the mosque has effectively become the only real place of dissent in these countries. Seems pretty relevant to this discussion!

(This isn't even getting into the issues of American support for Saudi Arabia and the other despotic Gulf monarchies who aggressively promote a form of Sunni Islam that is at best, one or two steps removed from the likes of al-Qaeda and ISIS.)
22  General Politics / Individual Politics / Mohammed Morsi vs. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on: March 17, 2017, 02:06:44 pm
As repugnant and awful Morsi was, I can't stand how readily the West's supposed defenders of liberal Western democratic values so readily support SECULAR STRONGMEN (read: murderously brutal and thus, widely despised dictators - usually coming from an illiberal and antidemocratic military elite) in the name of some misguided (and flat-out wrong) notion of "stability." So yeah, Morsi by default here.
23  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: German Federal Election 2017 on: March 16, 2017, 04:54:49 pm
This is one of the few instances where the Atlas results are much better than the expected actual results.
The far right getting 23% of the vote is SO great
Exactly!

I genuinely do not understand how anyone of Jewish background (let alone, anyone with a shred of basic human decency) can embrace the European far-Right (more specifically, the German far-Right - some deeply dark irony there). And no, this is not some concern trolling from me; I'm honestly perplexed by this, unless it is in fact you who's trolling here.
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Are healthcare/welfare/pensions the biggest pressures on state budgets? on: March 15, 2017, 10:58:31 am
I would say the lack of tax revenue and the massive financial costs (among other, broader social costs) that result from poverty, low wages, unemployment, underemployment, declining labor force participation rates, and so many working-age adults being imprisoned all combine to put a massive strain on state budgets - especially considering how much federal assistance to the states has been reduced or at best, block-granted.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Fear of diversity, not economic anxiety, caused Obama voters to switch to Trump on: March 15, 2017, 10:36:07 am
I could say something snarky about how corporate lawyers in Manhattan exemplify everything that is wrong with America/the world's 21st century economic and political "leaders", but why stoop to their level?

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