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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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1876  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Do you consider this forum to be... on: May 08, 2013, 07:24:55 pm
Whatever ideology falls under "wealthy white suburban male teenagers and young adults."


There you go.

Oh, and re: Libertarianism being overrepresented here...well, what else do you expect, considering the demographics of this forum?
1877  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Do you consider this forum to be... on: May 08, 2013, 07:21:12 pm
Whatever ideology falls under "wealthy white suburban male teenagers and young adults."
1878  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Blacks voted at a higher rate than whites in 2012 on: May 08, 2013, 06:35:14 pm
Could this mean that some white democratic voters stayed home?

Millions upon millions of would-be white Democratic voters stay home for every election.

Particularly true in rural areas.
1879  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Huckabee: Benghazi will keep Obama from finishing second term on: May 08, 2013, 04:27:36 pm
There is so much more that Republicans and Democrats alike could and should do. They could (and should) ask questions about the Obama Administration's expansion, legalization, and re authorization of many Bush Administration War on Terror practices. There is so much that should be investigated about the Obama Administration's ties to Wall Street.

But neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are going to ask those questions; doing so would implicate both parties as actively involved in policies that are against the interests of the American people, and it also would expose the Washington political and ideological consensus for the fraud that it is.
1880  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Cantor's Rebranding Effort Tested By House Republicans on: May 08, 2013, 11:46:55 am
When the House votes Wednesday on a bill called the Working Families Flexibility Act, it will be the latest test of a Republican effort at rebranding.

The architect of that effort in the House, Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., has so far had a mixed record.

In February, Cantor gave at the American Enterprise Institute. His pitch: The Republican Party needed to broaden its message beyond the fiscal fights of the past two years.

"Our House majority will pursue an agenda that is based on a shared vision of creating the conditions of health, happiness and prosperity for more Americans and their families," he said.


Btw, the "Working Families Flexibility Act" gives employers the freedom to determine work schedules and time off.

This legislation, proposed by House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and Representative Martha Roby, would allow employers to pay their workers nothing extra for overtime work, other than the potentially empty promise of compensatory time -- "comp time" -- that can only be used at the employer's discretion. H.R. 1406, cloaked in the positive language of "choice," is really just another attempt by Republicans to get rid of paid overtime.


1881  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: which is your favorite Gospel? on: May 05, 2013, 10:01:39 pm
John and I'm quite shocked to be the first person to vote as such. John captures a sense of hunger that the other three don't in their writing, which makes it far more interesting to read. Not that the other three aren't good to read as well.

1882  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: what's the reason for Riverside County, CA's ancestral republicanism? on: May 04, 2013, 11:27:56 pm
Lots of religious people and truck driving, Budweiser drinking white people who love their guns.

This was a demographic that usually voted for Democrats(at least downballot) before the early 1990's. 

Not necessarily.
1883  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Late 1800s political demographics in the Northern US? on: May 04, 2013, 11:19:57 pm
In the late 1800s, which voter blocs in the Northern United States were

1. Strongly Republican
2. Lean Republican
3. Lean Democratic
4. Strongly Democratic

1884  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: So, I attempted suicide last week and just spent six days in a mental hospital. on: May 04, 2013, 08:57:22 pm
Man...thanks for being so honest with us about what happened. Seriously.

Glad you're getting/have gotten help. Smiley
1885  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gay vs. Christian - Jason Collins vs. Tim Tebow on: May 04, 2013, 04:51:29 pm
Alright. Basically modern day American evangelicalism is NOT the churches of the South from the Civil War to segregation exported to the rest of the country. In fact most Southernors in the 19th century were mainline Protestants, mostly Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian or traditional Baptist (which was more associated with mainline back then.) Pentecostals and most fundamentalist denominations today didn't even exist at time.

Even during the Jim Crow heyday, this was mostly true. The KKK membership was largely Methodist (somewhat ironic since the United Methodist Church today has a pretty large number of black membership, especially in the South, but at the time it didn't exist and was a bunch of smaller factions), and the Southern Baptists were almost mainline and no more conservative than most modern day mainline denominations. Even during the Civil Rights era this was true. The SBC liberalized at the same rate as other mainline denominations until the 80s when this started being reversed with a conservative takeover and shedding of the more liberal churches to more liberal Baptist associations. In 1976 Jimmy Carter wasn't too odd in the SBC (he later joined the American Baptists, a more liberal denomination.) In fact during the Civil Rights Movement most of the evangelicals were on the pro-civil rights side, which makes sense as they were basically the only ones with integrated churches back then. Furthermore most evangelical denominations that ordain women, even conservative ones, did so far before most mainline denominations today did.

Most modern day evangelicals and fundamentalists come from the Great Awakenings, which was hardly something that existed only in the South (the burned over district is obviously not in the South.) Sure the South was affected like everywhere else by it, perhaps even disproportionately, but it wasn't something exclusive to the South that gradually trickled to the rest of the country.

When I said "Southern-style", I didn't mean that (right-wing) evangelicalism was ever exclusive to the South, just that it was/is disproportionately represented there. Tongue Really, "Southern" is not broad enough-the Great Plains, Southwest, and Lower Midwest especially have had a large "evangelical" presence for a long time, as have cities like Los Angeles which had the Pentecostal revivals in the early 1900s.

You are correct, though, that the modern assumption of "evangelical" as automatically being "Southern" or being "politically conservative" is misleading at best. Probably due to the reputation of the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition, etc. Tongue
1886  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Is the preceding poster a FF or HP? on: May 04, 2013, 04:25:01 pm
1887  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Jeff Hanneman (Slayer guitarist) dead at 49 on: May 02, 2013, 06:14:48 pm

Never been much of a Slayer fan, but 49...damn. RIP. Sad
1888  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gay vs. Christian - Jason Collins vs. Tim Tebow on: May 02, 2013, 12:10:54 pm
the brand of Christianity that is prevalent in the US has a strong inbuilt need to claim a persecution complex.

Only since the 1970s or so... (Except in the south, but even before then, it was different).

How much of that persecution complex do you think has to do with the (ancestral) social class status of most white "evangelical" Protestants (and the corresponding "low church" status of their churches?)

When you consider that "Southern-style" evangelical Protestantism is a truly national phenomenon now that has also made big gains in middle-class white suburban respectability (take a look, for example, of the phenomenon of the suburban "mega-churches")...well, there's surely been some kind of cultural assimilation of white "evangelicals" into the broader American mainstream.

White "evangelicals" have effectively joined the broader American middle-class (dare I say bourgeois) suburban culture that they used to pride themselves on being separate from. That has created a lot of tension, both between evangelicals and other groups and within the evangelical communities. Yet white evangelical culture still retains its populist (in a cultural, value-based sense) roots. The difference is, they are now engaging and participating in the broader American middle-class culture as a part of that culture.
1889  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gay vs. Christian - Jason Collins vs. Tim Tebow on: May 02, 2013, 11:47:26 am
the brand of Christianity that is prevalent in the US has a strong inbuilt need to claim a persecution complex.

Very much so. Also, said brand's followers tend to identify as "Christian" or "Bible-believing churches", as if they and they alone are the only "authentic" Christians.
1890  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Pat Toomey: Republicans "did not want to be seen helping" Obama on gun bill on: May 01, 2013, 06:28:47 pm
[Toomey] noted that the National Rifle Association, which opposed this latest effort and which has previously given Toomey an “A-rating,” supported similar background check legislation when he voted for it in the House of Representatives in 1999.

The country has become so politicized, passing legislation on major issues is getting increasingly difficult, Toomey said.

“In the end it didn’t pass because we’re so politicized. There were some on my side who did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done, just because the president wanted to do it,” Toomey said.

In subsequent comments, he tried to walk that remark part-way back by noting he meant to say Republicans across the nation in general, not just those in the Senate.


Kinda nice to see a conservative Republican Senator (from the class of 2010, no less) admit that his party, by and large, is unwilling to even consider supporting anything that President Obama supports.
1891  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Is the US more conservative because of race? on: May 01, 2013, 06:22:47 pm
African American are pretty conservative at least in regards to religion and homosexuality.

Why do you suppose that is?
1892  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The correlation between net worth (wealth), age, and political conservatism... on: April 30, 2013, 09:43:09 pm
To make your case you really need to look at political ideology across income/wealth levels with each cohort of voters. I mean the rap is that poor whites are much more conservative these days than in the past, no?  Meanwhile, high paid government workers, and Hollywood, and folks with graduate degrees, and lawyers and doctors, have moved left. Heck when I go to legal conventions, the place is packed with "liberals"  as it were.

I don't think poor whites are much more conservative than in the past. I think a lot of them have stopped participating in the political process altogether-which would help explain why the Democratic Party has declined in fortunes among this formerly (overall) solidly Democratic constituency.  

Now, whites of relatively average (Lower-middle-class) means have certainly moved to the Right, but that can be explained, in part, by the decline of unionization in the American (white) working class. Some of the formerly poor or lower-middle-class white evangelicals have also made relatively large gains in income, education, wealth, and overall socioeconomic status, particularly those in the emerging suburbs around the country (especially the Sun Belt). Same with many formerly working-class white Catholics (another formerly Democratic constituency). There are plenty of solidly middle-class (and some upper-middle class) white evangelicals and white Catholics (I leave out white mainline Protestants here because they are an ancestrally Republican group that has moved in the other direction, if anything. Tongue )

And it's true that certain subgroups of wealthy and/or well-educated  Americans are more liberal than in the past, but a part does not make up a whole. Tongue
1893  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: ProgressiveRealist on: April 29, 2013, 12:33:40 am
Hi guys!

I just logged onto a different computer than the one that showed me as being banned, and here I am. Glitch of some sort? Tongue

Sorry for causing a fuss! Tongue
1894  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 84% of Republicans approve of George W Bush on: April 24, 2013, 05:13:43 pm
I know I do. Bush's economic governance, while not great, was at least OK, and he certainly ran an FF foreign policy. I'd rather have him than the current President.

Ignoring whatever delusions you have about the recession, I'll offer you the chance to elaborate on this.

Bush ran reasonable and extremely successful policies with regards to conflicts in the Caucasus, in regards to epidemics and war in Africa, and in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. His one mistake, launching the 2003 war in Iraq, is only really apparent in hindsight and without hindsight was clearly the correct decision to have made. Both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were carried out quite well; had McCain won the election in 2008, I'm confident today Iraq would be a solid American ally. (McCain compared it to South Korea after the Korean War, which I think is a good comparison). Obama reflexively pulled out, which was one of his greatest mistakes. (Not that going in wasn't a mistake, but pulling back once you're already there is also rarely a good move).

I would type "lol", but considering how many hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost directly due to Bush's wars...not a laughing matter, I'm afraid.
1895  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Can we ever have an economy as strong and as prosperous as the post WWII boom? on: April 24, 2013, 05:07:40 pm
Who is "we"? The wealthiest people in America (and the world, really) enjoy enormous benefits under the current, increasingly international system at everyone else's expense. Inequality and social stratification continue to grow, both between nations and within nations, locally and globally.

Meanwhile, a large number of people on the planet continue to live in dire poverty. I don't see many of them prospering under a "strong" American economy.

1896  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the asexual trans victimologists on: April 23, 2013, 06:20:19 pm
Quote from: asexual trans victimologist link=topic=172531.msg3704434#msg3704434 date=13667There a
[thdte author=memphis link=topic=172531.msg3704432#msg3704432 date=1366753633]
Some people, especially those whom our society holds in contempt and traumatizes for having the temerity to be female, want to be left more or less alone.

Do you deny that this is the case?
I do not believe that society holds women in contempt or traumatizes them for being female. There are obviously a great many pros and cons in being either sex. People are a lot more sympathetic to the problems of women, whereas a lot more is expected of men professionally. Back in the good old days, your excessive hyperbole wouldn't have been tolerated. A shame that has changed.

is this a serious post
1897  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Memphis on: April 23, 2013, 05:33:08 pm
this thread...lol
1898  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: No Paul ninja delegates in 2016? on: April 22, 2013, 12:42:53 am
Which state Republican parties are currently occupied by the reLOVEution?

Iowa's, for one. Cheesy
1899  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Who is most likely to win the 2016 GOP presidential nomination? on: April 22, 2013, 12:28:27 am
I think it's gonna be between Rubio, Christie, Santorum, and Jeb Bush.
1900  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / The correlation between net worth (wealth), age, and political conservatism... on: April 21, 2013, 10:28:49 pm
Take a look at this:

Age Group    1984    2009    Change
All Groups    $65,293    $71,635    +10%
< 35            $11,521    $3,662    -68%
35-44            $71,118   $39,601    -44%
45-54            $113,51   $101,651 -10%
55-64            $147,236 $162,062 +10%
65+                    $120,457 $170,494  42%

Source:http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/median-net-worth-age.html (original source was a Pew Research Center report).

Clearly, there is a big generational divide between the older and middle-aged population and the younger population, in terms of wealth/net worth.

It's been well-established that the older generations of Americans are more conservative than younger generations on cultural issues like gay marriage or marijuana legalization. Less examined, however, is the  relationship between political conservatism, age, and wealth. And if you look at factors like race and gender-whites are wealthier, as a group and on average, than blacks and Latinos (and Asians, too, IIRC, though Asian-Americans have higher median income), men are wealthier than women, and older Americans are slightly wealthier than middle-aged Americans, and much wealthier than younger Americans.

Sorry if this is old information to some of you, but I think the main point is this: having financial assets and wealth is a very solid predictor of (at least economic) conservatism in politics. The fact that there's also a generational divide between conservatives and liberals on cultural issues perhaps helps explain at least some of the political polarization of the parties nowadays, no?

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