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News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

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1876  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Thoughts on Colossians 2:20-23? on: September 20, 2013, 01:05:38 am
 "20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."


I thought that this is an interesting passage-how the world's rules are defined as being distinct from God's rules, and how earthly rules can "pose" as godly commands.

Any other thoughts?
1877  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Ron Paul: More women should sacrifice career to homeschool kids on: September 19, 2013, 07:09:13 pm

Remind me again about Libertarians being "socially liberal."
1878  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The GOP's problem, in 2 sentences on: September 19, 2013, 05:44:06 pm
It would be a lie of omission to ignore the role of religion in making the GOP so supremely insane. When you wrap yourself in Jesus (or Allah or whatever in other places), you can get away with anything.

Not just religion, but American right-wing Christianity (which includes but is not limited to much of the white "evangelical" movement.)

1879  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: The GOP's problem, in 2 sentences on: September 19, 2013, 05:40:47 pm
The contradiction between individual and collective interests.
1880  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Is being anti-gay marriage now unacceptable for a national Democratic candidate? on: September 17, 2013, 11:27:36 pm
I am proud that in the Democratic Party we are now pushing for full equality.  And I cannot imagine the 2016 Democratic nominee opposing same-sex marriage.  Every single rumored 2016 candidate:  Clinton, Biden, Cuomo, Warren, O'Malley, Gillibrand, etc. all support same-sex marriage.  That's not a coincidence.

They've pushed for equality, but pushed away anyone who disagrees with them on this position. It's terrible.

Yes, how terrible that bigots don't feel welcome in the Democratic Party. Sad
1881  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: How SoCons Can Win the Culture Wars - Lessons from Ultra-Orthodox Judaism on: September 17, 2013, 11:14:39 pm
To the posters suggesting this wouldn't work for Evangelicals, I absolutely agree. It's groups like Ultra-Orthodox Jews, orthodox Calvinists, Mormons that would be able to make this plan work. Evangelicals by their very nature aren't inclined to separate and their church structure would make it very difficult to do so even if they were inclined to be.
Not by their nature as Evangelicals - by their nature as part and parcel of American mainstream culture. To become a well-organized minority group with considerable minority influence, you'll first need to be a minority community, divorced from the majority culture.

Depending upon how exclusive one wants to be with the term Evangelical, it not difficult at all to define them a minority today.  However, even with them being a minority, Evangelicals by their very nature cannot divorce from the majority culture, for to do so would be to abandon evangelism.  That's the point that is being made here.

I think "minority" was not being used in the literal sense but in the cultural sense here-ie White evangelicals are essentially indistinguishable from the dominant culture of America. Tongue
1882  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Use a City to Describe the Previous Persons Ideology on: September 16, 2013, 08:13:46 pm
For Torie: I think he might like Atherton, which is up north here and is one of the few Republican-voting areas in the Bay Area: not coincidentally, it is also super-rich! Tongue

1883  General Politics / International General Discussion / U. N. Report: Chemical Weapons Use in Syria Confirmed, Details Point to Assad on: September 16, 2013, 08:06:29 pm

So much for the "false flag" CT'ers.
1884  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Civil War in Syria on: September 16, 2013, 12:56:33 am
So I have not been impressed with President Obama's handling of Syria. While it's a good thing that the chemical weapons arsenal is presumably going to be destroyed, I am not convinced that the Obama administration's actions were really responsibl for that. And besides: a lot can still go wrong. Events move fast, the situation is perilous, and I fail to see much of a plan if the agreement between Russia and the US does not work.
1885  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How Can Millennials Change Washington If They Hate It? on: September 15, 2013, 04:14:27 pm
The idea that "Millenials", like any "generation", are a clearly defined group with clearly defined politics is kinda silly, IMHO.
1886  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Republican voting blocs on: September 15, 2013, 02:22:22 pm
One factor going into this is education. Those who are less educated tend to be less informed and more partisan than others.

This actually is not necessarily true, by any means.
1887  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: What Happened To The GOP in 2012 on: September 15, 2013, 02:16:15 pm
The GOP didn't realize that White Men are declining as a share of the electorate and population.
1888  General Discussion / History / Re: After the Civil Rights Act of 1964, did any racist whites move to South Africa? on: September 15, 2013, 02:14:45 pm
Yes, the racist whites of West Virginia and eastern Kentucky went to Rhodesia, where they lived  under the rule of a White Working-Class fascist dictatorship.
1889  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: right to work laws on: September 15, 2013, 02:13:19 pm
I don't think people's right to work is in need of a law, so oppose.
1890  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: what figure(s) from the opposing party do you admire? on: September 15, 2013, 02:12:26 pm
Dick Cheney is an.. odd choice for any human being to admire.
1891  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which 11 September is more tragic? on: September 15, 2013, 02:11:33 pm
Tragedies aren't contests. If they are, then we live in a pretty sad world.

bro, my tragedy justifies my worthless ideology actions more than your tragedy, lol. 
1892  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rise of the New Left on: September 15, 2013, 02:05:48 pm
It does make sense.  If the GOP is going to move far right of the American people, why not have the Democrats move to the far left?

Because the Democrats are pretty much useless in their Moderate Heroism (at best) when you factor in how the GOP/Tea Party (same thing, despite the difference in brand names) almost always get their way (the public will be damned)?
1893  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: How SoCons Can Win the Culture Wars - Lessons from Ultra-Orthodox Judaism on: September 14, 2013, 10:30:26 pm
Orthodox Judaism and "conservative Christianity" (how vague can you get?!) of course have precious little in common theologically, historically, or culturally.

The problem with (white) American "evangelical" Protestantism is that it's clinging to a cultural/religious heritage that never really existed, certainly not like Orthodox Judaism, which, at the very least, is clearly defined in terms of theology, tradition, culture, and history.

Consider the reality of America bing a place of continuous reform and change in terms of its culture, and it becomes obvious why an attempt to be rigidly and dogmatically "conservative" in this cultural context would be contradictory and hypocritical.
1894  General Politics / Economics / Re: West Virginia planning for natural gas trust fund on: September 14, 2013, 10:19:57 pm
natural gas is cleaner than coal,

lol wut
1895  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will the U.S. ever become a social-democratic country? on: September 14, 2013, 10:16:15 pm
Social Democracy isn't socialism. At least not of the type you're describing. Norway, Sweden and Denmark are social democratic countries, but you can't call them socialist in the manner you're describing. They're capitalist; in fact, I've read an article that state that Norway was better for start-up businesses than the US. And the way that the Scandinavian countries operate isn't incompatible with American life.

No its not, but its pretty darn close. The only reason I even mentioned socialism was because the author mentioned socialism as well as social democracies. I never intended to call them "socialistic". I kind of lumped the two together and that was unfair of me. And I said that socialism and social democracies go against founding principles, not our way of life.

Those countries you mentioned are livable, but they are, like all social democracies, high debt, many social programs (welfare state), high debt, and big government. Those are all things our founders tried to avoid happening, and it was certainly not what our country was based upon. Anyway, I obviously have a strong opinion against socialism/social democracies, but its because I think its one of the most dangerous things that could happen. In fact, we may be going down that road as we speak.

That is a flat out lie

Actually, America's homegrown colonial aristocracy...oh, I'm sorry, the "Founding Fathers" were terrified of democracy because they knew that the common folk would act against the power elite's interests.
1896  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rise of the New Left on: September 14, 2013, 10:11:30 pm
Just because someone writes an article doesn't make it true. I'd argue the exact opposite in a conservative magazine and someone could post it on here too.

then go ahead, I'd like to see it.

So you're saying just because someone writes an article makes it true? That's what I got out of your post. If I'm wrong, then you must have agreed with me?
That's not what he said at all, Barfy.  He said he would like to see you write an article of that caliber with that many polling statistics to back up the opposite argument which he'd like to see you publish in a conservative publication which can then be linked to here at Atlas forum.

The truth is, you can't do it... and nobody can do it, because all the evidence supports the premise of the article above.... not the opposite as you have claimed.

I never actually made the argument that the opposite is happening. What I was doing was tearing apart the claim that we're having another rise of the left. Our generation is more center-left on social issues and center-right on economic issues. I'm assuming you're young but not very young? No extremes are happening. There will still be years when the Republicans are in control and years where the Democrats are in control.

"Center-left", "center-right", "social issues", and "economic issues" are  hopelessly vague and thus, meaningless terms, especially in the context of American politics.
1897  Forum Community / Forum Community / What does this poem mean to you? on: September 13, 2013, 09:31:30 pm
Inspired by my main man oakvale, who himself was inspired by KRich,

Oh, to be an Atlas Forum user!
The main abuser,
Of all things good,
Because clearly you should,
Become a Libertarian,
Or some other contrarian,
Railing against the "lamestream media",
While you plagiarize Wikipedia.
Not naming a name,
But if I were to blame,
Our current state of insanity
On Cogendism, or some other such vanity,
"Tip of the iceberg" is all I would reply
Because it is precisely that kind of horrible lie
That gives the Atlas bad publicity
For all the would-be lurkers, it's simply toxicity
My point in all of this, is simply thus
There's gotta be a better way for us
Which is why I think that for this forum to be,
A place where the denizens of the IRC,
Can feel safe from the fake intellectual posturing
It is time for all of us to start fostering
A place where truth and hipness meet
Yes, doing this would be quite the feat!
That is all; there is no more
So I will sign out, in case I've been a bore

1898  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of people who advocate the Death Penalty on: September 13, 2013, 06:52:06 pm
Oftentimes I get the sense that there's a rather...sadistic side to some of them.

Far more, though, fall into the camp of making those who receive the death penalty an "Other" (dehumanization) so as to absolve themselves of any social responsibility for the horrible crimes that those who receive capital punishment commit.

1899  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Henry Kissinger on: September 13, 2013, 06:48:10 pm
Wish he was eligible for President or Vice-President. He's an outstanding American.

He's a war criminal, or at least an enabler of horrendous acts. I'm sorry you're a fan of such things.

I'm a fan of his conservatism.
He is not even a conservative. Hell, if Humphrey beat Nixon he very well might have ended up in that administration.

why are you engaging with barfbag
1900  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: were jews republicans before 1928? on: September 13, 2013, 06:23:07 pm
It's important to remember though that politics was less polarized with Republicans being the right wing party and Democrats being the left wing party.  There were many urban progressives in the Republican Party and many redneck conservatives in the Democratic Party.  Ideologically, Jews were largely on the left side of the spectrum, but that could lead them to support Republicans like Hazen Pingree or Teddy Roosevelt.  

Since when were Democrats the left wing party? Tongue

I'd argue that politics was more localized (and based on rival political machines in different cities and towns) back before the rise of American mass suburbia (or back before the mass urbanization of the early 1900s, if you want to go back even further).

Political machines were a way for the working classes of the cities to gain influence (though yes, many were dominated by ruthless, corrupt Bosses)-which really makes one question the motives of the middle-class reformers who successfully brought down many machines.

Of course, the Democratic Party later incorporated working-class influences into its electoral coalition in the 1930s. However, how much of that was a reaction to the growing radical labor movements of the 1930s during the Great Depression? That is something that I am more interested in learning about.
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