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1876  General Politics / Individual Politics / Opinion of *some random politician that no one has heard of* on: September 15, 2014, 02:22:36 pm
Definitely one of these options is correct.
1877  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is Andrew Cuomo to the right of the average New York voter? on: September 15, 2014, 02:17:21 pm
BRTD's question is, of course, unanswerable, because it assumes that Andrew Cuomo has actual political convictions.

Does the average New York voter have actual political convictions?
1878  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Petition for Adam LeBron FitzGerald to start his own Update-equivalent thread on: September 15, 2014, 10:43:59 am
X Progressive Realist

1879  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas Forum LGBT Census 2014 on: September 15, 2014, 10:42:39 am
The issue isn't open vs. closeted tendencies unless you think literally half of everyone is gay on the inside

Ah, but is this board (disregarding the non-American users, which admittedly might not be fair Tongue)  even close to being a representative sample of the US population?

Maybe the fact that this board skews towards youngs might be part of the issue.

So you think half of youngs are LGBT?

perhaps the homosexual agenda has finally prevailed


I just think that youngs are more likely to say they are LGBT than olds. Tongue

But admittedly it wouldn't account for ALL of this forum's unusually high LGBT population.
1880  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why the Clinton hype? on: September 14, 2014, 09:33:40 pm
I understand speculating on a Clinton candidacy, that's fine. But why is she being treated like this messianic, invincible goddess? Is it because she is a woman? Clinton-era nostalgia? The fact that the Democrats know she is their only shot at keeping the White House?

...to complete the job that the GOP prevented President Obama from doing.

Turning the country into a laughing stock police state?

1881  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas Forum LGBT Census 2014 on: September 14, 2014, 06:18:56 pm
The issue isn't open vs. closeted tendencies unless you think literally half of everyone is gay on the inside

Ah, but is this board (disregarding the non-American users, which admittedly might not be fair Tongue)  even close to being a representative sample of the US population?

Maybe the fact that this board skews towards youngs might be part of the issue.
1882  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas Forum LGBT Census 2014 on: September 14, 2014, 05:23:11 pm
There's selection bias and then there's a near 50-50 ratio. Yikes.

Well, when I saw the thread title, I assumed the thread would contain questions for LGBT posters, not a question for all posters asking whether they are LGBT or not. So I suspect many non-LGBT posters didn't even click.

I believe other polls have shown a near 50% LGBT ratio though. I would have expected a place like this to be at least 90% male, so that part of forum demographics never surprised me - but the gay thing is difficult to understand. Why would LGBTs be more interested in electoral maps than straights? :p

The fact that our civil rights are currently a political issue and hot topic would make me expect LGBT people to be more politically oriented overall, though certainly not by the margin shown in this poll. I guess there's also the fact that people tend to me more honest about their orientation online when behind the veil of anonymity.

I have two hypotheses.

One: Fewer gay people are interested in sports.  Politics fills the same spot in the male brain as sports, it's competitive in exactly the same way.

Two:  Maybe this is just me, but I felt like being into news, politics, reading the New York Times, etc when I was a teenage Howard Dean supporter in high school, in real America, that sort of made you  a "fag."  As a gay kid, I think you sort of say to yourself, "well, I'm gay anyway, so I'm just going to be myself, work on the school newspaper and hang out with my weird friends.  There's no use pretending I'm a football dude, or a skateboard dude or a generic dumbass who likes drinking Busch lite in a garage, or whatever would be cooler than a political nerd.  I think that partly why gay men are over-represented in a lot of careers like advertising, fashion, law, journalism, academia and media.

Or perhaps that rather isolated, socially awkward/nerdy,  suburban, upper-middle class kids (a demographic which this forum attracts) have a higher representation of people who are openly LGBT, relative to the general population?

I know that this forum is overwhelmingly white and male in addition to all of those things I listed so I wonder if that also has an effect....
1883  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Hitchens on the danger of conceding to Islam out of political correctness on: September 14, 2014, 05:14:38 pm
excellent thread idea
1884  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of 9/11 Jokes on: September 14, 2014, 05:12:33 pm
This thread is worse than 9/11.

But not Hitler?
1885  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Evangelicalism on: September 12, 2014, 10:54:09 pm
One more thing-perhaps part of the reason (in addition to the Solid South's poll taxes and Jim Crow laws, along with the humiliation of the Civil War)  for why Southern evangelicals would not be Republicans was because the evangelical movements of the successive Great Awakenings had a particular appeal to the poor and the least educated. Since the South was so much poorer than the North (post-Civil War) due to-for various reasons-its lack of industry (among other things), and social mobility for poor Southerners (white and black) was so limited in the brutal stratification of Southern society after Reconstruction, the prospects for forming an educated, entrepreneurial, evangelical middle class in the South that could challenge the authority of the planter elite simply didn't exist like they did in the North.

Consequently, while Northern evangelicals became more educated, urban, and upwardly mobile, Southern evangelicals remained largely poor, rural, and uneducated. Perhaps that contributed to their separation from mainstream American society in the latter part of the 19th century, and their increased theological and political distance from Northern evangelicals.
1886  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Evangelicalism on: September 12, 2014, 10:25:58 pm


The term fundamentalist has two definitions. The first refers to Protestants who rejected the Social Gospel and subscribed to the "fundamentals" of Protestantism. The second is what Useful Idiot was talking about; Protestants who continue to emphasize separation after the rise of evangelicalism (KJV Baptists, Bible Presbyterians etc.)

The second definition is almost mutually exclusive with evangelicalism. The first isn't quite so bad, but with the rise the emerging churches and some established evangelicals abandoning orthodoxy, the first definition doesn't mean evangelical either.

Speaking of which, I've read that the Democratic Party did better among the more fundamentalist/orthodox/liturgical Protestants (and of course, Catholics-who weren't quite so far removed from the aforementioned orthodox Protestants in theological terms that they couldn't be political allies Tongue)   in the 19th century (in Northern as well as Southern states), while the Republicans did better among the fast-growing evangelical churches (though the Republican advantage among evangelicals was mostly confined to the Northern states, of course). Notice the distinction?

The Social Gospel was very popular among middle-class evangelicals in the North, in terms of reforming society to reflect the ethos of moralistic Protestant piety. Tongue Though it should be noted that the descendants of those Northern evangelicals grew more "liberal" or "Progressive" in political terms by the time of the 20th century.

By the 1920s or so (IIRC-don't quote me on that date!), the term "mainline Protestantism" was being applied to the most influential Protestant denominations in American society, all of whom were marked by their commitment (though the extent of this varied among and within denominations) to the Social Gospel, their generally educated middle-to-upper class demographics, their theological Modernism (or liberalism), and as I said before, their hegemony over American society in general. They were, in other words, the "Establishment".

The early 20th century saw a theological realignment among Fundamentalist-Modernist lines (with both groups containing many of the ancestors of today's "Evangelicals").  This is when fundamentalism becomes much more rural (and "Southern" or Southern-influenced). A lot of fundamentalists, as DC Al kind of implied with his post, did later call themselves "evangelicals" to emphasize their commitment to engaging with the world and social issues, at least to some extent.

 I guess my point with this post is that the meaning of the term "evangelical" has been applied to many different groups in American history, and so thus, has a convoluted and complicated history.

1887  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Have You Ever Completely Misjudge Who Someone Would Vote For on: September 12, 2014, 09:58:13 pm
Have you ever completely misjudge a friend or relative's politics?

I have an uncle living in Nashville. He's a doctor, mainline Protestant and bashes Obama and Tea Partiers alike. Solid Romney man right? Wrong. He mentioned that he voted for Rick Santorum in the GOP primary a while ago and I was completely taken aback Tongue

Well, if he's a socially conservative (since he does live in Tennessee Tongue ) Protestant, even if he's a mainliner, Romney's waffling on social issues and potentially, his Mormonism could have been issues for him (Just speculating here Tongue).

Also, isn't your family from a strict orthodox Calvinist tradition? And isn't that tradition both very conservative on social (and I guess political) issues, as well as being more "High Church" than many other conservative Protestants in North America (aka politically conservative Low Church Protestants who aren't affiliated with a mainline denomination-aka "white evangelicals")?

Therefore, if your uncle is indeed more "High Church" and "traditionalist" in his conservatism (I'm assuming he's similar to you in that regard, correct me if I'm wrong! Tongue) maybe supporting a politician who is known for both his devout Catholicism and his outspoken social conservatism isn't so surprising.
1888  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of 9/11 Jokes on: September 12, 2014, 08:33:09 pm
Well, looking back this morning I think I offer several of you a sincere apology.  It's not hard to say you're sorry, but here goes:

I'm sorry your friends and family members died because of decades of US Imperialism around the globe that killed millions of men, women and children that helped bring about the kind of cultural resentment that made 9/11 possible.  Again I'm very sorry that Uncle Sam killed your friends.

Yikes.  That sounds like you're both blaming America for 9/11 and implicating the innocent people who died on 9/11 in "imperialism" so they're somehow to blame as Americans.  I understand that probably sounds ridiculous to most people, but it's also the kind of boilerplate leftist anti-American gibberish you actually hear from people.

I think that would touch nerve with most people more than what you said before even.  Maybe I'm just missing the joke.

He's certainly not doing the latter, but are you going to completely reject the notion that imperialism has consequences?

That's a bit tricky.  The US has influenced every single country in the world and done lots of terrible things, sure.  But, when it comes to 9/11, the US was the innocent victim and was in no way at fault.  The US didn't cause 9/11.  Just because you committed some bad action in the past, doesn't mean that you caused bad things to happen to yourself in the future.  That's basically the idea that two wrongs make a right.

Why do you think Al-Qaeda picked the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the Capitol/White House to attack? Also what makes 9/11 worse than military attacks-sanctioned by governments-on civilian populations? How many innocent people died in the firebombings of Tokyo and other cities in Japan (to say nothing of our country having the distinction of being the only one ever to use nuclear weapons on not one, but TWO cities).

Nobody is denying that 9/11 was a horrific atrocity. But I don't see why we-the people of the United States-shouldn't at least question the long history of the United States government (as well as transnational corporations, which the US dominates) doing horrible things, ostensibly in our name. Or how the United States' economic, military, political, cultural, and ideological power have all worked against the interests of other countries and cultures-again, all in the name of American ideals. Yes, we do a lot of good things as well, but again, what is "good" by American standards is assumed to be good for the rest of the world.

Now, you could just chalk this all up to the US acting in its own interests as the world's superpower.
But there's also the unfortunate reality that we do not live up to our own ideals, which is true in international relations as well as in our domestic politics. Thus, we get accused of hypocrisy and sanctimoniousness-and there's definitely a significant deal of truth to that accusation.

All of this is to say; even though the US dominates the world, our perceptions of the world (and ourselves) are by no means universal. That is something we have to collectively understand. People outside the US both love us and hate us-the natural consequence of being the sole superpower.  

Hope that made sense.  
1889  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will Hilary Clinton being a feminist hurt her? on: September 11, 2014, 11:23:09 pm
What's wrong with being a feminist?
1890  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: PM Series: Question 19 on: September 11, 2014, 11:13:21 pm
Say what you will about TNF's politics but he has been very consistent, honest, and clear about where he stands;  and from what I know of him, he does a far, far better job of "walking the walk" than most other armchair/wannabe revolutionaries here.

In other words: don't be so arrogant and condescending, AggregateDemand.
1891  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Ukraine Crisis on: September 11, 2014, 11:00:34 pm
KIEV: The European Union has agreed to slap a new round of sanctions on Russia on Friday despite the ceasefire in Ukraine, triggering a swift threat of retaliation from Moscow.

However, European Council president Herman Van Rompuy said on Thursday the punitive measures, which target Russian oil and defence companies, could be lifted after a review of the truce at the end of September.

1892  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Civil War in Syria on: September 11, 2014, 10:52:21 pm
The Fiji UN force has been released.  In good health.

Well, that's good news.
1893  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: BREAKING: American forces bomb ISIS targets in Iraq on: September 11, 2014, 10:51:34 pm

ie: they're an even greater threat than we thought.
1894  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: It's been 13 years on: September 11, 2014, 10:48:52 pm
I remember when my dad woke me up; it was around 7am in California, so that was basically around the time the towers collapsed. Quite a vivid memory.

I later met someone (friend of my uncle) who lost his brother-in-law in the Pentagon that day
1895  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How much money would you need to call yourself rich? on: September 11, 2014, 10:40:30 pm
For the wealthy, placement on the basic class hierarchy and open parasitism (i.e. unearne income) matter far more than "earned" income.

Most wealthy people have actual jobs/careers, Snowstalker (unless you think the likes of Mitt Romney or the Forbest 400 are representative of most people).
1896  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Which GOP gubernatorial candidate's plan is better? on: September 11, 2014, 09:20:34 pm
Obviously both are pretty awful, but Plan B seems a little less awful I guess.
1897  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Eisenhower or McGovern? on: September 11, 2014, 09:18:27 pm
The one who didn't have the CIA overthrow democratically elected governments.
1898  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Are you a young rich white liberal? on: September 11, 2014, 05:37:33 pm
I don't think your social class is necessarily based on your income percentile (at least, not directly-though people with higher incomes than average do tend to have more wealth/assets than average, but not always).

I think a better way to measure this would be something like overall financial security/ability to plan for the future, along with what options you have in regards to your work (or whether you have to work at all!) or choice of job/career/vocation. Not as easy to calculate as household income, but probably more realistic, IMO.

1899  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which is a better example of Fake Democrats? on: September 11, 2014, 05:33:01 pm
There's no such thing as a fake Democrat.  If you identify as a Democrat, you're a Democrat.  Period.  I know, I know, God forbid that they don't toe the party line on every issue.

This. There is not and never has been a 'party line' within the Democratic Party because the Democratic Party is a mish-mash of competing, opposed groups with no coherent ideological basis. It is literally a party organized on the basis of 'not being the Republican Party' and nothing else.

Well tbh the GOP doesn't have a coherent ideological basis either.
1900  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Joel Osteen and the Happiness Gospel on: September 11, 2014, 05:20:52 pm
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmations_(New_Age)
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