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1  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 07:57:06 pm
The anthem shouldn't be played at any sporting event period. It's ridiculous that it even happens frankly.

Nonesense, IMHO. God Bless America.
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Disinvites Golden State Warriors from WH Visit on: Today at 07:55:47 pm
While the previous answers, FB, were rather strident (Lord know I never am), they have a point.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Disinvites Golden State Warriors from WH Visit on: Today at 03:51:54 pm
Lest we forget, President Obama readily continued and follow through the invite of Stanley Cup champion Boston Bruins despite the fact their goalie and de facto captain ( notwithstanding Chara) who is a first-rate tea partier, not to mention a first-rate a******, publicly refused the invitation because of socialism, Etc.

Trump of course does not have 1/10 of the class for patience for people who dare criticize him.

The Bruins' goalie, Tim Thomas, was wrong for this.  Obama was our President at the time, and an invitation to the White House is an honor.  Acknowledging a Presidential invitation as an honor is not, and has never been (at least until recently) an act viewed as co-signing policies one disagrees with. 

This, however, was one player.  The Warriors have numerous players on board with this.  And numerous players are putting pressure on others to boycott Trump; Thomas, in error that he was, acted on his own and wasn't trying to be part of some sort of movement. 

Obama had class.  Trump only knows one mode:  Combative.  I'm waiting for him to grow in office, but he always regresses right when I think growth is happening.  And, yes, this is getting to be an issue with me.

Fair enough.

And for what it's worth, I think that Tim Thomas was wrong. I also would have thought that Steph Curry was wrong if you got it Trump. But here it's a case of trump was the one who cancelled the whole event. Such a Man baby
4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 03:49:53 pm
I never stand for the anthem for a variety of reasons one mainly being the countries views on Arabs and Muslims. And guess what, it's perfectly my right as an American to do that. It's not unamerican as the TRIGGERED right claims it is.

I do not see a problem with NFL players kneeling either. It's another false outrage the President and the right have.

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.  Given the hostility these nations have toward Israel, why should it be shocking that American citizens have the attitudes some of them have toward Arab Muslims?  Should it be considered unreasonable that American citizens may have doubts as to whether or not Arab Muslims have the same loyalty to America, right or wrong, that they have?

I'll agree that there's false outrage.  But why shouldn't I question the loyalty to America someone who refuses to stand for the Anthem out of loyalty to their country of origin and a grudge against American citizens who support, say, Trump's immigration ban?  Is America YOUR country?  Or is it just where you live?  

That's a real important question because we are NOT a nation bound by "blood and soil" as most nations of the world are.  If we are a nation where significant blocs of its CITIZENS have divided loyalties, let alone a primary loyalty to another nation, ethnic group, religious sect, etc, than what becomes of our experiment in self-government?  How can America function as a nation when one group or another are preoccupied with its ethnic and racial grievances (however justified) to the point where their loyalty to America is conditional?  What one has a right to do or not do is an entirely different question than the question of what attitudes on the part of American citizens are necessary in order for our continuing experiment in self-government and individual liberty to be successful.  When I was young, I thought this unimportant; even authoritarian, but as history has unfolded, I recognize that for America to work, its citizens have to be committed to its success, even over the perceived interest of their own groups of which they consider themselves members of.  

Fuzzy bear, with all deference to your later post about your churches working with other Christian congregations various ethnicities and races, and the really good posts you made earlier today, is diatribe about Islam it's just plain ignorance and soft bigotry personified. As in you'll never throw a rock through mosque I'm sure, but you'll happily nod your head when you read news reports of them being rounded up for camps. Which is only a scintilla better
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 03:47:56 pm
No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

I'm still not seeing how what Kaepernick did was so toxic, but the NFL and it's fans have absolutely no problem with this:

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/arrests/

Still sounds like there are significantly more important things to be worried about when it comes to who should be allowed to keep their jobs.
I personally don't have a problem with what Kaepernick did, but I do know that every single NFL fan I know bar one is extremely angry with him. I'm curious to know how many of them are going to quit watching football period after today.

The key phrase here being that you know. In between getting blood stains off the Doc Martens and getting their new red laces replaced, I'm sure they are very devout NFL fans indeed.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: "Alt Right" rebranding themselves "Anti Communist Action," plan new tiki march on: Today at 03:43:24 pm
"Rock against Communism" sounds like a good idea for a music fest.

Hoping for a screwdriver reunion? All your favorite white Nationals bands could be there.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall your white power crew threw a similarly titled event not too many years ago

Why are you obsessed with calling ChairmanSanchez a white nationalist?

Well, I don't know, but it might possibly be because he is one. Most hardcore Branch Trumpidians are.

There are closet alt-righters posing as lefties on Atlas.

Really? Can you name 2?

I'm not going to name anyone based on speculation.

So your accusation is just speculation?  Huh

I was just speculating out loud. I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

I'll rephrase. This is just outright speculation you're pulling out of your backside, then?
7  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: "Alt Right" rebranding themselves "Anti Communist Action," plan new tiki march on: Today at 03:42:43 pm
"Rock against Communism" sounds like a good idea for a music fest.

Hoping for a screwdriver reunion? All your favorite white Nationals bands could be there.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall your white power crew threw a similarly titled event not too many years ago

Why are you obsessed with calling ChairmanSanchez a white nationalist?

Well, I don't know, but it might possibly be because he is one. Most hardcore Branch Trumpidians are.

There are closet alt-righters posing as lefties on Atlas.

Really? Can you name 2?

I'm not going to name anyone based on speculation.

So your accusation is just speculation?  Huh
Santander and I have reason to believe that a certain Atlas lefty may now or may once have been a member of the political movement referred to as the "alt-right,"yes.

Well, takes one to know one I guess.
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: More Republicans now support free college than oppose it on: Today at 03:41:10 pm
Has there even been talk about a graduate tax to fund tuition?

Explain

The argument is that those who get the most financial reward out of their lives after graduating from college pay the most. Thus those who go into low-paying professions (like clergy, social work,  and K-12 teaching) would pay less than those who become investment bankers and make millions. People who get a degree and decide to become letter-carriers or auto mechanics (which could be rational choices) will not have to pay what physicians would pay.

That in practice happens in those countries that have education as far as one can use it.



We already have that in the form of a progressive income tax. This merely earmarks it both in terms of being collected only from college graduates, and earmarked solely for education. How about just a nice robust progressive income tax?
9  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 01:15:57 pm
Can we all call this what it is?  False outrage.  Trump is blowing this up right before the latest attempt at health care repeal is blowing up.  So he will make a stink with the NFL to distract the press coverage.

Why aren't people outraged when some drunken fans yells out during the anthem?  Why are concessions stands and ticket takers allowed to continue working during the anthem?  Why aren't we upset about the fans walking around the concourse during the anthem?

This is total nonsense and false outrage.

In fairness, most fans do thank the drunk shouting fan is an a******. The difference is they hold their players to him far far higher standard, and rightfully so, then some random drunken dip s*** in the stands
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: "Alt Right" rebranding themselves "Anti Communist Action," plan new tiki march on: Today at 01:14:43 pm
"Rock against Communism" sounds like a good idea for a music fest.

Hoping for a screwdriver reunion? All your favorite white Nationals bands could be there.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall your white power crew threw a similarly titled event not too many years ago

Why are you obsessed with calling ChairmanSanchez a white nationalist?

Well, I don't know, but it might possibly be because he is one. Most hardcore Branch Trumpidians are.

There are closet alt-righters posing as lefties on Atlas.

Really? Can you name 2?

I'm not going to name anyone based on speculation.

So your accusation is just speculation?  Huh
11  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What is the current state of ISIS, and why doesn't Trump mention ISIS anymore? on: Today at 01:10:56 pm
He destroyed them within the first 30 days because he called them radical Islamic terrorists.  It was like magic.  He said the words, and they all disappeared and all of his followers forgot they even existed in the first place.  That’s what strong leadership is: magical prowess over space and time.  All Obama had to do was utter three words (“radical Islamic terrorism”) and they would’ve gone away just as easily, but he refused. Thanks Obama.
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Politico: Trump aides begin looking for the exits on: Today at 01:09:51 pm
Tillerson strikes me as being in this situation.  I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves early in 2018.

Tillerson is an old man with a personal fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars. He can do whatever he wants with the rest of his life and face no serious consequences to his participation in this hot mess of a presidency.

But a 30 year old staffer in the Trump White House could very well have their life ruined by all of this. If they can't get a good job after leaving the administration, that could permanently impede their ability to follow the career trajectory they want. If they have to lawyer up, the legal fees could bankrupt them.

Is it wrong I don't sympathize with these chuckleheads? I mean, they chose to jump on this racist asshat dumpster fire of a campaign to join the White House staff for a career of Beltway Fame and Fortune. They should have seen better than anyone what Trainwreck this was inevitably going to become and still chose to stay on board.
13  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: "Alt Right" rebranding themselves "Anti Communist Action," plan new tiki march on: Today at 01:07:06 pm
"Rock against Communism" sounds like a good idea for a music fest.

Hoping for a screwdriver reunion? All your favorite white Nationals bands could be there.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall your white power crew threw a similarly titled event not too many years ago

Why are you obsessed with calling ChairmanSanchez a white nationalist?

Well, I don't know, but it might possibly be because he is one. Most hardcore Branch Trumpidians are.

There are closet alt-righters posing as lefties on Atlas.

Really? Can you name 2?
14  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: "Alt Right" rebranding themselves "Anti Communist Action," plan new tiki march on: Today at 01:00:31 pm
"Rock against Communism" sounds like a good idea for a music fest.

Hoping for a screwdriver reunion? All your favorite white Nationals bands could be there.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall your white power crew threw a similarly titled event not too many years ago

Why are you obsessed with calling ChairmanSanchez a white nationalist?

Well, I don't know, but it might possibly be because he is one. Most hardcore Branch Trumpidians are.

 that, combined in fact he has admitted to it being a "reformed former" white nationalist. However, far far too many of his posts strongly demonstrate there is nothing former or reformed about his views.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trumpcare Megathread: Paul, Collins, McCain likely opposed to G-C on: Today at 12:56:42 pm
Ummmmmmmmm



Patrick Svitek‏ @PatrickSvitek
@TedCruz on #GrahamCassidy: “Right now they don’t have my vote, and I don’t think they have Mike Lee’s either." #TribFest17

https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/911964825076600832
I'll believe it when I see it.
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AP: Senate GOP Tentatively Agrees on $1.5 Trillion Tax Cut on: Today at 12:42:34 pm
Wut.  That's ridiculous.  Tax cuts shouldn't be coupled with expanding the debt, but to say they aren't designed to have a positive economic effect or that they literally don't do anything to improve Americans' economic well-being is insane.

Except that any tax cut championed by a Republican administration is absolutely, positively worthless in that regard. Sure, you might get a slightly better than average quarter or whatever after it goes into effect, but there is no structure for it to benefit the economy long-term. As long as Republicans are dead-set on giving >90% of any tax cut to those in the top 10%, it's nothing more than the fleecing of America with no actual benefit for people.

When is the last time some wealthy fool or businessowner said, "oh boy - I've got more money now: better create more jobs!". The answer: never. The only thing that creates more jobs and generates economic growth is consumer demand, which forces businessowners to expand or abdicate potential profit. Until/unless the GOP is willing to divert all of a tax cut to those in the bottom 1 or 2 quintiles of income, this is nothing more than a farce to repay campaign obligations and ratfyck those who their ideology dictates they should hate.

Best host of the month!
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:33:00 pm
This is actually a smart play by Trump to the largest demographic in the Republican party: Sh**ty old men who get mad at what they see on TV all day.

I think you just defined our Atlas member, Grumps.
Wink

Now now. Grumps gets mad at things on the internet as well. Grin
18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Disinvites Golden State Warriors from WH Visit on: Today at 12:31:51 pm
Why is our president taking time out of his day to tweet nonsense about whether or not a sports team is invited to visit him?

North Korea.  Iran.  Healthcare.  Jobs.  ISIS.  Russian election interference.

Pick one.  Tweet about that.  Don't waste our time (and yours, which should be valuable) by being an absolute child about the most insignificant topic you could be dealing with right now.

You are 71 years old.  Stop acting less mature than a 5 year old.

And to all of his cult worshippers who voted for this trainwreck, even if you regret it now, you are completely responsible for a president who gets more up in arms over sports players not doing what he wants them to do than he does about the sanctity of our republic.  You are all just as despicable as he is (again, even if you regret your vote now...because it's not like you didn't know what he was like when you cast it).

This x 10.

@ fuzzy bear, although you say Trump was right in canceling the Warriors in my based on the Steph Curry's comments, consider my previous post about how Obama readily can't open the invitation for the Stanley cup-winning Boston Bruins despite team Starr goalie Tim Thomas refusing the invite because Obama was a socialist for trying to provide universal healthcare, it cetera. Thoughts?

Trump just doesn't have the maturity or ability to accept people ever ever ever thinking ill of him to be president
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:28:18 pm

Whoa! Chips are down for Grumps to pick a side here. Wink
20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:26:03 pm

Alleged rapist, thank you. Tongue
21  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:19:17 pm
I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."


That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .


Outside of angry internet commenters, not really.


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/petition-calls-nfl-boycott-if-kaepernick-doesn-t-play-n790866






Does an employee of a private concern have the right, on the job, to act in a manner where their on-the-job conduct will be viewed as offensive by most customers?  

Kaepernick's gesture is a statement to everyone watching that "America is Racist".  This is rightfully offensive to millions of Americans, most of whom are not racist, and most of whom believe that America is not only a GREAT nation, but a GOOD nation as well.

America is not a PERFECT nation, but it is a more INTROSPECTIVE nation than any other I can think of.  I don't see Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mexico, El Salvador, Cuba, China, Russia, et al, as being places where national leaders ponder seriously how they treat their own.  America DOES do that.  

The problems Mr. Kaepernick professes to be an expert on are problems in America; in other places, they are a way of life.  They are problems, to be sure, but the rates of crime among blacks, relative to the rest of the population is a problem as well.  And the Kaepernicks of the world never acknowledge the false narratives; the "Hands up!  Don't shoot!" falsehood of Ferguson, MO, which began with witnesses willingly lying, is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown failed to comply with the LAWFUL instructions of a police officcer is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The aspect of Mr. Kaepernick that offends me is not his positions or his kneeling; it's his crass intellectual dishonesty on such a divisive issue.



Indeed, introspection is perhaps the greatest American strength in politics. Or at least it used to be.
22  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:16:46 pm
Trump is more upset about this topic then a skinheadcramming his car into peaceful protestors and killing someone. Let that sink in

Sums it up

I don't believe this is the case, but Trump has not prevented this from appearing to be the case to some.  He really doesn't need to talk about this issue at rallies, and I've got to admit that I'm amazed that he can't see how tone deaf he is on these issues.

Kaepernick is an idiot; he's been hoodwinked by his anti-American girlfriend into becoming an SJW on steroids.  He doesn't have a job for one reason; he's not good enough to be the guy who's the focus of media attention on his team.  And that's something he did to himself. 

I don't much care one way or the other what Kaepernick, or any other jock, does for the Anthem, but I know the owners care and I know the fans care.  I'm not a big fan of the idea of creating opportunities for people to stand for anthems, say the Pledge of Allegiance just so someone hosting an event can appear patriotic, but the National Anthem is a long-held feature of sporting events in America.  Most fans are fine with it, and most fans are not fine with folks taking a knee, especially when it's mixed with the "America is racist!" rhetoric that is grossly unfair to the vast majority of Americans. 

The biggest fault I find with what Kaepernick is doing is that if I'm not going to just write him off as flat-out anti-American and take him seriously, I can't avoid the fact that his gesture is taking his anger out on the wrong folks.  If his beef is with police and law enforcement, than why is he kneeling for a gesture that, in no small measure, is a gesture of honor for our military?  The military is the most thoroughly integrated institution in America, and the vast majority of football fans are either veterans or folks with vets as a family member; could he not see what a slap his actions are to those folks?  Kaepernick sympathizes with folks who don't want to have to look at the disrespectful Confederate monuments, and he has a point, but folks who come to football stadiums or pay for cable TV have to watch his offensive gesture in a situation where folks want a respite for all that.

And, yes, owners have every right to fire someone for kneeling if it's in their contracts.  And, yes, owners have the right to expect players to adhere to standards of conduct.  Going on a talk show and discussing police brutality on your time is one thing; creating a situation that makes uncomfortable paying customers is another.  That's not "free speech"; that's offensive conduct.  Kaepernick isn't out of a job for the views he holds; he's out of a job for diminishing his employers' product while lacking the judgment to recognize that this was what he was doing.



 

I largely agree, FB. Fwiw
23  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem on: Today at 12:14:55 pm
Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this
I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

You really don't understand how literally mccarthyist that is? I mean, as in a literal definition?
So, the League shouldn't look out for their own interests and then piss on their fans? Sounds like a good business model to me!

Yes, anyone who's considered a communist supported by hard right Wingers should likewise be drummed out of Hollywood end the, journalism, it cetera. Amarite?

Kind of ironic giving it not ours after you posted this your furor tweeted about how NFL's business suffer because they didn't pay him enough respect. This has nothing to do with business bottles or the bottom line, Sanchez. It's 100% about me and baby once again rallying his Stormtroopers to take it out on anyone who doesn't show sufficient kowtow respect.
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump: "Melania really wanted to be with us" while she is standing right there on: Today at 12:12:01 pm
He meant "Melania is happy to be here." You have to be pretty flexible to spin it into what the title suggests, but you'll still have to try harder.

Stop the presses. Having watched the video, I think Sanchez is dead right here. In fact, Trump starts to say something immediately after words starting with she really, and then it was suddenly cut off.

Okay, he's an idiotic sexist pig with a trophy wife who he's undoubtedly cheated on with more coke whores then one can count. But this is a Bonafide unfair attack.

Just reposting this so we can reiterate the bottom line here, and close out this thread, BS comparisons to the clintons included.

Very worst, and I mean absolute worst, one could say that it was typically curious and swell-headed of him to not even gesture look at Melania when he said but again at worse typically not realizing Melania what's with him.

End of discussion I hope.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump approval ratings thread 1.1 on: Today at 12:08:22 pm
According to that surverymonkey poll, trump has seen a 11 point swing in his approval/disapproval spread since late august. If Hurricanes and "bipartisanship optics" will do that, can you imagine what a war with north korea would do? (at least in the short term?)

Hope he doesn't get any ideas. lol

Stuff like this is why I think the bad post thread is ill named. Marty's had some doozies, but he doesn't even ranked in the top 5 as far as bad posters on this
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