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1  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Steelers to retire Joe Greene's #75 on: Today at 01:17:19 pm
The Steelers have unofficially retired several numbers; 12, 36, 32, 58, 59, 86, 88.... .

in honor of the great Emmanuel Sanders?


Lynn Swann, you Neanderthal. Tongue

And props to the Steelers for a classy, albeit overdue, move.
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: How the Democratic Party became a tool for Wall-Street on: Today at 01:14:32 pm
This is another case where Americans are hurt by not knowing themselves. Because people hold onto the mythology of Infinite Opportunity, they don't see themselves as Poors, Working Classers, or even Richers. Everybody is Middle Class, floating around like an Oklahoman in the Update, convinced that one of these days things are going to work out if we just believe. Americans need a serious dose of realism. We're all busting our butts for peanuts, and things are not going to change until we make low prestige jobs worthwhile. It is not possible for everybody to be a doctor, a CEO, or a lottery winner.

I agree about improving the plight of workers who bust their asses at minimum wage jobs, but raising the minimum wage is the wrong solution, and its a lazy shift of responsibility from government to private companies, who simply fire Americans and move overseas.

Also, most of us are middle class working-stiffs by choice. Buy overpriced garbage. Give your income to creditors, rather than accumulating assets. Wouldn't be so horrible if the government didn't actively subsidize the permanent indebtedness of the people.

"I'm so concerned about the plight of minimum wage workers, I want them to bust their asses for even less money!"
3  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Any politicians in your family? on: Today at 12:42:32 pm
A great to the nth degree grandparent of mine was the vice-presidential nominee for one of the major parties.

I'm not telling who, so don't even ask. Wink
4  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: I'm Baaack!...Sort Of on: Today at 12:35:50 pm
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Plan to split California into 6 states advances on: Today at 12:34:00 pm
Although I understand districting and potential candidates/races out of splitting CA is like catnip to us election junkies, this thread just grates to say so many people giving serious discussion over such unbelievably bad proposal.

There, I said it. I'll stop being a buzzkill for now. Tongue
6  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: Today at 12:14:33 pm
I'm assuming from the lack of response to the Court's query that the Defense doesn't wish to call witnesses either, and further rests its case.

The Court will deliberate and seek to post a ruling no later than tomorrow evening.
7  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: Today at 12:43:04 am
Thank you LG TJ. The Court is satisfied with (and appriciative of) this tally.

I would ask the Plaintiff again to address tthe Court's question about Badger creating a precedence of general deference to the election administrator's decision.

I would ask the Defendant to elaborate on/spell out the application of the portion of Badger he quotes ("That George Orwell can't accept votes..." etc.) To the case at hand.

Finally, I would ask each party to advise whether any witnesses will be called. IF the answer from both parties is no, I'd ask them each to present any concluding arguments they feel are necessary (if any) or otherwsie declare they are resting their case.
8  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: July 30, 2014, 08:05:42 pm
Here's a preliminary question for the parties: HYPOTHETICALLY, if Plaintiff's position is correct that the entire ballots cast by Earl, Ben & Malsipines are fully legal nullities, how would the election have changed? Preliminarily, it seems that the Total Valid Poll would thereby be reduced to only 18, and the quota to just 5. It appears Spiral and Cassius both would've been elected on the first round, and that's as far into the calculation I'm willing to do myself. Please advise. Acting Gov. TJ is welcome to offer his calculations.

The Court will note for the record that it isn't interested in making it's decision fit a particular outcome. Whatever the Court determines is the legally necessary ruling will stand. The Court is primarily interested in ensuring that the Plaintiff's unrebutted assertion Franzl would've been excluded should've the 3 votes mentioned above been voided, and thus avoid any potential issue of mootness. As a secondary matter the Court is somewhat interested in the impact such ruling would have, as it is germane to Defendant's argument, though not necessarily dispositive to a Court's ultimate ruling here.

Get calculating.

Considering Franzl doesn't contest that he wouldn't be elected, I'm not going to calculate this at this time, as I'm not in a place where I can.  If you still want, I will tonight.

As for affecting the quota, I disagree that counting the individual votes as legal nullities would result in a change to the quota.  The ballots of the 3 people in question were still validly cast, even though the individual votes should be counted as legal nullities.  In effect, it would be similar to a blank ballot cast: it would still be factored into the quota, but there are no actual votes for candidates.

The Court respectfully disagrees. Based on the case law cited the Court believes that IF ballots are invalidated as Plaintiff suggests they do no meet the statutory definition of a valid vote, and would be out and out nullities. For that reason, stupulations aside, the Court wishes the calculation done by one/both parties (or a 3rd party such as TJ. Stipulations would not undo a mathematical error.
9  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Which version of "Whole Lotta Love" is better? on: July 30, 2014, 01:02:23 am
The best version of Whole Lotta Love is from Dread Zeppelin's debut album, Un-Led-ed, circa 1990.  No doubt about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXKSQEecR0A
Dread Zeppelin was awesome.  Elvis impersonator doing Zeppelin songs to a reggae beat.  Genius.  Brick House (of the Holy) and Black Dog were my favorites.

Your Time is Gonna Come was also transcendent.
10  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: July 30, 2014, 12:47:52 am
A question for both parties:

First, is there any way in your analysis that Badger and Transition... (hereafter AR 6) can be reconciled to nullify only the first preference votes for Al of the 3 contested votes, but somehow still permit application of the 2nd and subsequent preferences listed? I'm having trouble seeing at what point in the counting the votes would be applied to second preferences under the PR-STV statute, but the Court would like your (plural) assessment here.

Second, a question for the Plaintiff (which I'll allow the Defense to subsequently respond to if it wishes, as I will for later questions to the Defense): To what degree did the issue of voter intent (or lack thereof) apply in the Badger holding?

For the Defense (with Plaintiff right of rebuttal): Are you conceding that the specific holding on ballot interpretation in Badger cannot be reconciled with the election results you ask this Court to uphold?

To your first question directed to both of us, the defense would argue that invalidating the voters' first preferences would have no effect but to deny the non-candidate the votes. The votes in question would automatically be included for Franzl in the first count.

To the second question, the one posed directly to me, I would say that the reasoning in Badger can be applied, just not to reach the conclusion suggested by the plaintiff that the entire ballots are to be invalidated.

It is important to note that preferences had a different meaning in the previous electoral system than under PR-STV. In reality, one was casting 3 (or 5) votes of differing value. Votes did not transfer and there was an important distinction between a first and a second preference. Invalidating the first preference for a non-candidate made sense, as invalidation would not effect any of the other votes cast.

Indeed, Badger states: "That George Orwell cannot accept votes means that he cannot win, not that the vote is invisible on the ballot paper or in counting terms."

Ignoring Al in the count should have no other effect than to deny him the votes as a non-candidate. This interpretation fits the spirit of the cited case more accurately than the plaintiff's interpretation.

Badger goes on to state that "highest preference" can be regarded as functionally equivalent to "first preference". If this is the case, then one can only conclude that, logically, this goes both ways. If a first preference is highest, then vice versa, the highest preference must be seen as equivalent to a first preference.

A.R. 5 states: "3. A first count shall then be made quantifying the total number of first preferences each valid candidate did receive."

Surely this means that the most highly preferenced VALID candidate is to be included in the first count. In other words, as previously argued, this is not a vote transfer as the plaintiff suggests, but rather a necessary part of the first count. It is the only logical application in PR-STV, where only the order of preferencing is relevant, not the numerical preferences themselves, as under the previous electoral system.

Should the Court, however, rule differently and feel that the defense has not made a convincing case, the defense would lastly like to draw attention to the fact that Badger specifically affirms that the election administrator is within his rights to go against precedent if he feels that doing so is more in line with the law. If nothing else, his certification, as it stands, is a reasonable application of this electoral system in a way that is most in mine with voter intent.

I would like the Plaintiff's reaponse to this last paragraph. Isn't thee a presumptuon (albeit not irrebuttable) in favor of the election administrator's discretion?
11  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Marvel vs. DC on: July 29, 2014, 09:59:59 pm
DC has the Vertigo line, so they win hands down.
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: America Is In Danger on: July 29, 2014, 09:57:42 pm
ISIS is recruiting in Europe and the United States. There are at least 100 American passport-holders fighting with ISIS, and an unknown number from European countries whose residents are free to travel to the United States without obtaining a visa. Our country and our people are in danger.

Citation please.


 RitaHeigl256, spelling it out is required, dangerous and punishable, welcome to the forum and if you have a hard hat handy, best bring it along.


It's true Rita. No one here knows better than t-host the consequences of incoherently rambling about "facts" one pulls out of one's ass.
13  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / MOVED: Pope Francis confirms visit to Philadelphia in 2015. on: July 29, 2014, 09:55:12 pm
This topic has been moved to Religion & Philosophy.

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=196267.0
14  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Is the death penalty justice or revenge? on: July 29, 2014, 09:42:25 pm
Suppose a convicted serial killer is sentenced to natural life in prison without parole. While in prison the killer manages to fabricate a knife and kills a prison guard. There is no additional incarceration that the justice system can add to the killer's sentence. If the death penalty is used in this case, I would consider it justice, not revenge.

To be honest, that's more an argument against sentences without parole than a justification for capital punishment.

By all means, keep some people locked up for the rest of their natural lives, but it should be subject to review after a certain amount of time in the vast majority of cases. It's ok if the result is that parole shouldn't be granted for whatever reason, but taking away all hope takes away any incentive to rehabilitate.

And then if the guy given no chance at parole because he killed a prison guard dills again inside? Muon's question is too legitimate to be ducked.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Man Accidentally Killed by Police Choke Hold in Staten Island on: July 29, 2014, 09:37:51 pm
Previous arrest is not evidence though. You can't just arrest somebody for something you have zero evidence for just because they were previously arrested for doing that thing. He has every right to resist. Plus, if you watch the video, Garner's "resistance" basically amounts to him waving his arms around before the guy grabs him from behind and puts him on the ground. Obviously this technically led to his death because it has a link in the chain of events that ended with him dying...but you could say the same thing about him leaving his house in the morning or getting out of bed. The point is that he was in no way at fault for his death.


Yes, the video didn't show him illegally selling cigarettes, so there was OBVIOUSLY no proof WHATSOEVER it happened. Roll Eyes Dude, we're getting the tail end of the police investigation/observations. They only need probable cause for an arrest.

More to the point, if you're innocent, you don't fight the cops on the street, you fight them in the courtroom.

The man refused to be arrested, leaving the cops with the choice of: a) physically arresting him after having tried EXTENSIVELY to verbally get him to comply; or b) say sorry we bothered you and walk away (i.e. not do their jobs).
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Man Accidentally Killed by Police Choke Hold in Staten Island on: July 29, 2014, 09:31:19 pm
a) Did the police's use of force violate protocol, and if so to what degree? Again, the fact the police used physical force on a huge guy who was resisting arrest, and the obese guy died of a resulting heart attack is by NO means dispositive of the issue.

b) If yes, what impact, if any, did the deviation from procedure impact/cause the man's demise?

Uh as the OP states using chokeholds is a violation of NYPD policy.

What exactly, per NYPD protocol, is a "chokehold", and was it used in this case.

The man was talking--having just gone through a two week choking murder trial several weeks ago you CAN'T talk much if you're being choked. He could. Yes, he was saying "I can't breathe", but people having heart attacks frequently feel constricted breathing. The first SOP for determining whether someone is choking vs. having a heart attack is to ask if they can speak.

If he could talk, that indicates there may not have been a "chokehold" used.
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: America Is In Danger on: July 29, 2014, 09:18:48 pm
ISIS is recruiting in Europe and the United States. There are at least 100 American passport-holders fighting with ISIS, and an unknown number from European countries whose residents are free to travel to the United States without obtaining a visa. Our country and our people are in danger.

Citation please.
18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Judge strikes down DC's ban on handguns outside home on: July 29, 2014, 09:16:06 pm
The Second Amendment may be the dumbest statute still standing in the modern era.

Hey, I've found a statement of yours with which I couldn't agree more strongly...
Yeah, the fact that a guy who is probably a Nazi sympathizer is proclaiming the need for guns to be taken away from civilians doesn't really help your argument.

Care to explain that teensy bit of hyperbole?
19  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Star Trek on: July 29, 2014, 09:11:32 pm
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.

That was Season 5, not Season 6.

And I've always thought that DS9's "The Visitor" makes for an interesting companion piece to "The Inner Light".


Did you slide your glasses up your nose as you typed that? Tongue
20  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Which version of "Whole Lotta Love" is better? on: July 29, 2014, 08:58:24 pm
Having actually wasted a minute and half of my life listening to this:

Oh, god, emoviolence is even worse than I imagined it would be.

Hmmm I recall you talking about how one should not write off entire genres...

If this song is presented as a good, or even average quality, example of the genre, I'm cofortable doing so, thank you.

As stated above it's a quite diverse genre. And a single track that happens to be a cover which was also recorded in a basement and appeared only a band's demo tape is the never the best example. Compare to these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maihcCjGQe0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sRwHHo90i0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFv2jtHaeY0

Well, that's about 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Tongue

The musicality actually isn't bad, but the constant guttural throat singing isn't "diverse" or "an interesting contrast" so much as "annoying as hell". The persistent disconnect from the rest of the song (with some variation on Portrait's piece), was grating.

Time and place for throat being torn out singing. I can't imagine full 40 minutes album of that.
21  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Which version of "Whole Lotta Love" is better? on: July 29, 2014, 07:57:00 pm
Did you know that, like a lot of Zep songs, Whole Lotta Love is a rip off an older blues number by Muddy Waters (written by Willie Dixon)?  The original M. Waters number and the "inbetween" song by the Small Faces You Need Loving.

Zep's version is the best of all of them, of course.

(the wiki on it
Quote
n 1962, Muddy Waters recorded "You Need Love", written for him by peer Willie Dixon. In 1966 British mod band the Small Faces recorded the song as "You Need Loving" for their eponymous début Decca LP. Some of the lyrics of Led Zeppelin's version were copied from the Willie Dixon song, a favourite of Plant's. Plant's phrasing is particularly similar to that of Steve Marriott's in the Small Faces' version. Similarities with "You Need Love" would lead to a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin in 1985, settled out of court in favour of Dixon.[11] The Small Faces were never sued by Dixon, even though "You Need Loving" still only credits Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott.

Robert Plant, a huge fan of blues and soul singers, regularly quoted other songs, especially live.

Page's riff was Page's riff. It was there before anything else. I just thought, 'well, what am I going to sing?' That was it, a nick. Now happily paid for. At the time, there was a lot of conversation about what to do. It was decided that it was so far away in time and influence that...well, you only get caught when you're successful. That's the game.

—Robert Plant, Robert Plant's manic persona

Of course. I don't object to covers, just bad ones.
22  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: July 29, 2014, 07:54:33 pm
A question for both parties:

First, is there any way in your analysis that Badger and Transition... (hereafter AR 6) can be reconciled to nullify only the first preference votes for Al of the 3 contested votes, but somehow still permit application of the 2nd and subsequent preferences listed? I'm having trouble seeing at what point in the counting the votes would be applied to second preferences under the PR-STV statute, but the Court would like your (plural) assessment here.

Second, a question for the Plaintiff (which I'll allow the Defense to subsequently respond to if it wishes, as I will for later questions to the Defense): To what degree did the issue of voter intent (or lack thereof) apply in the Badger holding?

For the Defense (with Plaintiff right of rebuttal): Are you conceding that the specific holding on ballot interpretation in Badger cannot be reconciled with the election results you ask this Court to uphold?
23  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: July 29, 2014, 07:19:26 pm
Here's a preliminary question for the parties: HYPOTHETICALLY, if Plaintiff's position is correct that the entire ballots cast by Earl, Ben & Malsipines are fully legal nullities, how would the election have changed? Preliminarily, it seems that the Total Valid Poll would thereby be reduced to only 18, and the quota to just 5. It appears Spiral and Cassius both would've been elected on the first round, and that's as far into the calculation I'm willing to do myself. Please advise. Acting Gov. TJ is welcome to offer his calculations.

The Court will note for the record that it isn't interested in making it's decision fit a particular outcome. Whatever the Court determines is the legally necessary ruling will stand. The Court is primarily interested in ensuring that the Plaintiff's unrebutted assertion Franzl would've been excluded should've the 3 votes mentioned above been voided, and thus avoid any potential issue of mootness. As a secondary matter the Court is somewhat interested in the impact such ruling would have, as it is germane to Defendant's argument, though not necessarily dispositive to a Court's ultimate ruling here.

Get calculating.
24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Inks.LWC v. Mideast Region (Superior Court) on: July 29, 2014, 05:41:39 pm
As a preliminary matter, as the Defense hasn't raised any argument against the preliminary injunction itself, the Court extends the previously issued injunction until final ruling on this matter.

The Court will seek to issue questions to the parties later tonight.

I won't hold the parties to it at this time, but does either side currently foresee the desire for witness testimony beyond the ongoing oral argument?
25  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Star Trek on: July 27, 2014, 10:26:51 pm
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.
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