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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Should jaichind's property be seized and redistributed? on: December 02, 2016, 01:38:16 am
only if every person with more wealth in assets has had their things seized and redistributed (to be given to poorer persons) to a point lower than his that would necessitate further seizure and redistribution - unlikely. i am not quite sure why the op singles out this particular forum user.
The things he posts are all "Super evil rich capitalist pig out of soviet propaganda". He said that america stopped being great when marginal income taxes for the rich went up recently or something laughably ridiculous like that.

Example in point: After a particularly obnoxious post of this type, I responded that he would likely finance a third world underage brothel if it was profitable and he wouldn't be prosecuted or lose social status over it. He thereafter responded, without an ounce of tongue in cheek humor and completely seriously, that he probably would if he could avoid the "hands on" day-to-day operations.

Yeah, politics aside, he's an empathy-devoid creep.
2  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Latino vote in Michigan- the hell happened? 38% trump according to cnn on: November 30, 2016, 11:24:28 pm
not many latinos + as we know now the exit polls drastically over-estimate trump's minority numbers.
Lol county level data suggests that Trump likely did better with Latinos and worse with affluent whites than exit polls suggested, Latino decisions whining after their exit polls were debunked is not proof of anything

Losing affluent counties doesn't mean you lost the affluent voters in those counties.  High-income people naturally have a MUCH bigger effect on the average income of a county than their one vote does on the result there.  What do you want to bet that the richest precincts in Orange County, for example, went Republican?
Still theres no evidence that Trump did worse than the exit polls showed amongst hispanics

Yeah, I was just referencing your claim that he did worse among "affluent" (defining this as having a college degree is laughable, and making over $200,000 as a family doesn't make you THAT affluent, if we're being real) Whites.

Roll Eyes
3  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: What caused PA to slighly tighten just now? Trump margin fell 6k. on: November 30, 2016, 11:20:37 pm
Sounds fishy to me.

Roll Eyes
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Texas Electoral College Member Resigns on: November 30, 2016, 11:18:02 pm
get rid of Electoral College altogether. Until you do, this will be a problem.
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump spreads propaganda about millions of "fake voters" - claims he won PV on: November 27, 2016, 09:51:12 pm
Good on McMullin for calling this out; it's a dangerous world we live in that he's one of the few conservatives we can turn to in order to stand up to Trump.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump spreads propaganda about millions of "fake voters" - claims he won PV on: November 27, 2016, 09:46:59 pm
Trump won the non California popular vote, which is very important utterly meaningless in our system.

At least to all but an avowed white power enthusiast like the above poster, of course
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: In Search of Obama-Trump Voters on: November 27, 2016, 09:42:07 pm
In Macomb County, MI, in 2012 Obama beat Romney 208,000 to 192,000. In 2016 Trump beat Clinton 224,000 to 176,000. Clearly thousands of votes switched parties between the two elections.

Exactly.

Maybe my thread title wasn't clear enough. The fundamental question here is "Why?".
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Women More Motivated to Run in Wake of Hillary's Defeat on: November 27, 2016, 03:23:19 pm
Amongst my friends who are millenials, Trump's victory has politically motivated them far more than any other event I've seen in my life

Trump is s phyrric victory ....the present day GOP is making a generation of enemies

Not to rain on your parade, but how many of your friends are not in/on track for college?
9  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Transition Team/Cabinet Thread on: November 27, 2016, 03:19:50 pm
Morden, there is a civil war brewing between the Trump-loyalist camp and the GOP-loyal camp.  you have Kellyanne and Rudy and Gingrich in Camp 1 and Pence and Paul Ryan and Romney in Camp 2.  Kushner and Ivanka and Eric and Donald Jr are wild-cards. This is a power struggle, for The Donald's mind.

I never thought I would say this, but I hope he picks Giuliani.  

1 - The discord it would create b/w Trump and the GOP, including Pence
2 - Keep Rudy as far away from domestic law enforcement as possible.  At least at State, he would have to spend his time wrecking other countries.

Romney should be too proud a Latter-Day Saint to eat dirt in exchange for SoS like Trump wants him to.

But I'll give Romnet this, at least he is patriotic and a Good Republican. He may take the job for the good of both if offered.

(Please)
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Russian propaganda effort helped spread "fake news" on: November 27, 2016, 03:13:32 pm
"it's under dispute because when the entirity of our miliary and civilian intelligence sources said it was clear cut, The Donald said he didn't believe it because reasons." Smiley)

F&^k off Pete Piotr
11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The Dems need an autopsy -- they are now a completely regional party. on: November 27, 2016, 03:04:33 pm
1) Trump gained less support among Americans.

2) The Republican party is weak on economics beyond taxes.
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton Campaign Counsel: "We'll participate in recount" on: November 27, 2016, 02:59:42 pm
A straight white male wins the Presidency, and the left goes bonkers.

Here's the old video.

Link

Hillary Clinton, now a private citizen after conceding the election to Donald Trump, wants in on the recount effort Green Party nominee Jill Stein launched Friday, even though she previously called such a notion “horrifying.”

Just like they would've if Sanders won. Amarite?

Krazen is still a lying poltroon with no use to this place I see.
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: In Search of Obama-Trump Voters on: November 27, 2016, 02:55:06 pm
My Grandma voted for Obama twice but this year she was a big Trump supporter. I think this is dead on.
I said earlier this campaign that Trump's real Achilles Heel was economic policy, and Clinton should have run against him the way Obama ran against Romney. The character and temperament issues would take care of themselves.
Yeah she probably supports the wall/deportations/Muslim ban but I doubt it was the main reason behind her vote. From the few times I've talked politics with her, she places way more emphasis on America and its people getting ripped off by elites or by other countries. Other than this year she's a pretty reliable Democrat. If Democrats beef up the rhetoric on trade, unions, wall street, and safety net programs, I would be very surprised if she didn't start voting for Democrats again.

yeah, notwithstanding her probable support of the Muslim ban and mass deportations, it's tough to call her much of a racist after voting for Obama twice. there are tons like her throughout the Rust Belt who swung the electoral college to Trump.
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: In Search of Obama-Trump Voters on: November 26, 2016, 09:52:33 pm
non-college graduates, 2012 exit poll:
Obama 51%
Romney 47%
3rd party 2%

non-college graduates, 2016 exit poll:
Trump 51%
Clinton 44%
3rd party 5%

That seems to be the largest swing group away from Obama and towards Trump.

Though yeah, it would be nice if we had some data on how many of these folks are new voters and how many are old voters who swung from one party to the other.

What's the swing when correlated for race?
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Catholic Appeal on: November 26, 2016, 09:48:49 pm
I concur with what others have said.

However, I think that part of why Trump over-performed with Roman Catholics in the primaries relative to Protestants is that his message that the system is broken (namely, that it disregards considerations of merit) resonated with these voters in particular. This is because most American Catholics are descended from populations (Irish, Italians, Poles, German Catholics) that really had to work hard in order to be accepted as legitimate Americans. That so many people today—illegals, people who refuse to learn or speak English, and so on—can violate the social contract that their ancestors had labored so hard to live up to, and without any great repercussions, grates on these voters.

I agree with this analysis.  It's very insightful.

When I was young and a Democratic Party activist, just about all priests and nuns were registered Democrats in Suffolk County, NY, where I grew up, even though the county was pretty Republican at the time.  At that time, there were many pro-life liberal Democrats.  Back then, the Massachusetts Congressional delegation, liberal to the core, were pretty reliable pro-lifers, even as they were liberal on other issues.  This type of legislative Northern Democrat has disappeared; pro-choice is pretty much a litmus test as to whether you are an acceptable Democrat or not today.  This has coincided with the Catholic clergy progressively registering and voting Republican.  They view themselves as having no stake in the Democratic Party AS CATHOLICS.  The Democrats can win the votes of lapsed Catholics and those who occasionally attend Mass, but I would suspect that regular Mass attenders are fairly reliably Republican nowadays.  

I would suggest you compare it to my post above. I have no doubt that many 4th+ generation descendants of European immigrants like to believe their ancestors are more willing to jump through llegal hoops and culturally assimilate than modern-day hispanic immigrants, but as noted that's largely a myth.

Yes, abortion is about as much a litmus test to Democrats as it is to Republicans, no doubt. And yes, the shrinking numbers of Catholic clergy are increasingly Republican, but I know some for whom that's not the case, as it is for many Catholics who are hardly lapsed but believe the Sermon on the Mount is more crucial to God than a line from Leviticus, which also prohibits tattoos and shellfish.
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PEOTUS reacts on recount request on: November 26, 2016, 09:31:46 pm
Yes, bragging about the Electoral College - especially in the context of having a "mandate" when you failed to carry 54% of the nation's votes - is meaningless BS. You only get to brag about the EC legitimately if you also won the popular vote.

Of course, the GOP does the same bragging with its gerrymandered House "mandate" every two years, so nothing new for the oligarchs who hate democracy.

The GOP won the House popular vote in 2016 easily. Liberals are spreading lies about this.

Doesn't count, though, right?

And lost it by a over a million votes in 2012. Gerrymandering over time discourages ompetative candidates and races. This isn't coinciden ce.

Still as dishonest a thug as ever, I see.
17  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Catholic Appeal on: November 26, 2016, 09:27:13 pm
I concur with what others have said.

However, I think that part of why Trump over-performed with Roman Catholics in the primaries relative to Protestants is that his message that the system is broken (namely, that it disregards considerations of merit) resonated with these voters in particular. This is because most American Catholics are descended from populations (Irish, Italians, Poles, German Catholics) that really had to work hard in order to be accepted as legitimate Americans. That so many people today—illegals, people who refuse to learn or speak English, and so on—can violate the social contract that their ancestors had labored so hard to live up to, and without any great repercussions, grates on these voters.

Or that they aren't white. My dad's family spoke Italian at home until they moved to Tampa in the 60s. They immigrated in the 1880s.

Or that a) immigration was at one point VASTLY easier than it is today. Not much more than get to Ellis Island or the like and pass a TB test; and b) many of the later "good" European immigrants were also illegals. The anti-Italian slur "Wop" is short for "without papers".

So yeah, iratemoderate, there are a lot of 4th generation descendants of immigrants who supported Trump's mass deportation policies, but wouldn't be here today if such policies were in effect for their ancestors.

The popular image of the quick to assimilate and legal "unlike today" European immigrant is frankly mostly a myth.
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / In Search of Obama-Trump Voters on: November 26, 2016, 05:56:37 pm
Because there's a lot of them.

Look at several southern and southeastern rural Ohio counties that Obama lost by only a couple % or less 4 years ago. Morgan, Hocking, Perry, Scioto, Pike (Romney won by only one vote!), and Ross. Though Obama improved from his showing against McCain in these counties (especially thee last 3), he was still quite competative in these counties in 2008, despite all of them having negligible minority populations.

Trump won them all by approximately 40 points. Turnout was rather consistent from 2012 and doesn't even begin to explain this outcome.

Simply put, there were tons of Trump voters there--and across many counties in Ohio, the Rust Belt, and America, who were so "racist" and "far right wing" that they voted for Obama twice.

Pause and consider this closely.

IMHO, although he's the only one I know, I doubt Fuzzy Bear is a typical Obama-Trump voter. Although economics were important to him , the typical such voter is desperate as to the modern economy's devastation of their communities' economy. Main Street replaced by Wal-Mart; family farms replaced by factory farms; decent union jobs being replaced by temp agencies, are at best stagnant wages and reduced benefits. FB seems more entranced with returning to a more homogeneous pre-60's idyllic Leave it to Beaveresque America.

A ccouple other lessons: Many white Americans were just as willing to vote for an overt racist (albeit by excusing/denying/minimizing/ignoring said racism) willing to offer a change to their economic interests, just as they were willing to vote for a black man promising the same change. These voters arguably weren't racist, but racism (and sexism) simply weren't dealbreakers for them. It's more complex than both sides acknowledge.

I said earlier this campaign that Trump's real Achilles Heel was economic policy, and Clinton should have run against him the way Obama ran against Romney. The character and temperament issues would take care of themselves.

Yes, some of these were voters who just didn't trust Hillary, but again this can't begin to explain this magnitude of shift.

So how do Democrats tap into this without writing Trump's win as merely "whitelash"? What economic policies do they push?

Thoughts? Anyone know other Obama-Trump voters (especially 2 time Obama voters)?

19  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Southwestern Kansas and the Texas panhandle on: November 26, 2016, 04:19:43 pm
Mostly Hispanic population growth and concerted registration efforts in those areas. Moreover, in Seward County, KS there has also been an influx of Somali immigrants. Most aren't voters but some have been in places like Minnesota before and became citizens.
Slow registration among Hispanics in that region from what I hear. At least relative to population growth.
20  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Catholic Appeal on: November 26, 2016, 04:04:04 pm
Not much. To the extent there is a "Catholic Votee"--i.e. a vote based primarily on one's Catholicism--such votes are fairly locked in as they have been for a couple decades: a large majorithy voting Republican on social issues, a small minority in the Francis mold whose devotion to social justice overcame other issues to vote Deomocrat.

Most Catholic voters are occassional once a week or less (usually less) voters, whose rligion plays a secondary effect on their votes if anything.
21  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Newest Ohio vote dump decreases trump's margin by 22k, gives hrc loraine C. on: November 26, 2016, 02:17:24 pm
And might I point out that liberals still don't seem to have gotten over their 2000 defeat, even almost seventeen years later.  Sad

Well, America's never recovered from W's administration, so....
22  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Petition to ban Santander on: November 26, 2016, 02:06:02 pm
why is "lol it is just the trolling" an argument against banning someone, anyway?
23  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: krazen had clearly not reformed after his temp ban on: November 26, 2016, 02:04:24 pm
Yeah, how did I know Torie was going to be up there as pussie #1 in this escpade.

I can promise you from personal experience in the Mod Cave that Muon is #2.

The mods are a spineless bumch of twerps nowadays (except. TG).

Hey, I've always been in favour of indiscriminate banning!

I apologize for my language earlier. It was inappropriate and (no excuse, but FYI) a bit fueled by too much holiday cheer.

Nevertheless the fact Krazen is allowed back with his non-stop useless BS and White Power drivel. I realize it's fashionable to consider allowing this place tto become Stormfront 2.0 in the name of "diverse opinions", but this a-hole has been offered more second chances than Martha Coakley and done worse at blowing them. 

Bannable then, bannable now. #Still a racist prick.
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump's Cabinet Set to Be the Wealthiest Ever; Worth $30 billion+ on: November 26, 2016, 01:48:30 pm
Being rich doesn't inherently make someone out of touch or elitist.

There's rich, then there's Uber rich. Being the latter creates a prima facie case for not placing a premium on the economic concerns of those earning $55k annually. Warren Buffett these guys ain't.

Picking a group of indivduals who neaarly uniformly fit that bill, along with being born and raised with an entire silver tea serving set in his mouth, creates in Trump a near irrebuttable case Trrump is grossly out of touch.

Including people like Carson and Giuliani, neither of whom had a "silver tea" environment growing up, with someone like Wilbur Ross is a pretty unconscionable conflation. Harold Hamm, who has the largest wealth of any of those listed, is largely "self-made" as well.

Re-read my post more carefully. It was Trump and Trump alone I accused, correctly, I being born as a child not merely a privilege, but of amazing levels of wealth.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump's cabinet: All white males? on: November 26, 2016, 01:11:20 pm
I love the assumption that there are no women or minorities qualified to be in the cabinet.

Thank You!
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