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76  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Aetna threatened to quit Obamacare if government blocked Humana merger on: August 18, 2016, 01:45:49 am
Good for Aetna.
So denying health coverage just because you can't form a monopolistic trust is good.  How screwed up are your views in life.
No, they are making a fully legal and ethical business decision. Their customers will find new plans, it's not a big deal.

WTF?
77  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Why has Bill Clinton been so reluctant to criticize Donald Trump? on: August 18, 2016, 01:43:33 am
Entirely the former.
78  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Anybody watch Bojack Horseman? on: August 18, 2016, 01:36:47 am
Total FS. The season 3 episode done mostly without dialouge during an underwater trip to a fish culture was amazing.
79  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Cincinatti Zoo officials shoot and kill gorilla after child falls into enclosure on: August 18, 2016, 01:29:37 am
Jesus. Almost 40% here would've said the very very real risk of the kid dying wasn't worth it.

It's probably for the best that many here don't/won't have kids of their own, but c'mon now.
80  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Who is, in your opinion, the best Joker? on: August 18, 2016, 01:21:57 am
Heath Ledger.

FFor sure
81  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Adolf Hitler and a gorilla are drowning in a river. You can only save 1. on: August 18, 2016, 01:19:52 am
On further consideration I'd probably save the gorilla.

Sorry, Antonio, but, while in almost any other hypothetical of this kind I'd agree with you, it's Hitler.

If you start making exceptions for Hitler, it's very easy to be tempted to make more. Past and present times are ripe with horrible people who did horrible things. Where do we draw the line, then? Surely, it can't be only Hitler, or someone should explain to the victims of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot why their tormentors weren't bad enough to deserve the same fate. And then, what about Franco, Suharto and the like? They killed a lot of people - not quite as many as those others, but is that really a relevant distinction? And why stop at tyrants? What about Tim McVeigh, Omar Mateen or the forever-unnamed people who bombed Piazza Fontana? What about Charles Manson? How many people does someone need to have killed to deserve being left to die? Isn't one enough? And hell, why stop at killers? Aren't some acts even worse than murder? What does Josef Fritzl deserve?

And yes, I realize it's a bit rich for me to make a slippery slope argument after I've rejected such arguments in other discussions (including with you). I just think this is the one right that can't tolerate any exception without eventually collapsing altogether. Also, as much as I like virtue ethics, I'm very suspicious of any moral reasoning that tends to divide humanity into "bad people" and "everybody else".

Yes, I'd save the gorilla over all of those (normal)

I'm not sure I'd save either, because the gorilla would probably kill me if I tried to save it.(controversial, I know)

Most sane answer in the entire thread.
82  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Hillary scrubs sexual assault pledge after allegations against Bill resurface on: August 18, 2016, 01:01:36 am
I speak for many conservatives moronic cranks on Atlas when I say that Seriously? is doing us all a massive favor by being so active in the 2016 board and calling out the hypocrisy of the left and the mainstream media.

Fixed
83  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Pence campaigning in NM?!? on: August 18, 2016, 12:47:24 am
even more stupid is trump campaigning in MI next week too.

MI will go for him long before NM will.

Um, no.
84  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will A Conviction Of PA Attorney General Kane (D) Affect The Presidential Race? on: August 18, 2016, 12:42:32 am
Of course not, now fu#k off, Seriou
85  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will Trump get working class voters & Hillary college educated voters? on: August 18, 2016, 12:26:59 am
WWC Democrats still very much exist, but they are probably the most silent of any voting group.

How does this forum even define "WWC Democrats"? I'm pretty sure I'd fit this definition, yet multiple people here call me an elitist latte liberal because I bash racist hicks. Roll Eyes

According to many people here, you can only be a "white male working class Democrat" if you're a Santander clone...either his past or present incarnation.

It's based on income level, occupation, and family or cultural background. Either one or a combination of the three.

I make $11/hour doing manual labor in the backroom at Target, my mother is a secretary, and my stepdad is a security guard. So yeah, I'm fairly sure I'd fit this definition.

Of course, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that most Atlasians from their ivory towers think all the little people are equivalent to racist hicks, and that if you bash them, you MUST implicitly be a classist elitist who hates all working class whites. "Bashing racist hicks vs. bashing the white working class? What's the difference?!" says Marie Antonionette and Thomas XVI of Illinois.

The irony is thick and the projection is real.

How dare you.  I'm the first of my name.

LOL, nice, though I was hoping for a more substantive reply considering the caricature you had of me in your head. Wink

Do be fair, most of your posts sound like you're wearing a monocle.
86  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Hitler finds out Trump is losing every poll on: August 18, 2016, 12:22:04 am
"Don't even get me started on the Sheriff's Star fiasco. No one in their right mind thought it was a sheriff's star."

Well .... Seriously did .

"no one in their right mind ..."
87  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: PPP will poll Utah next. on: August 18, 2016, 12:16:30 am
No big surprises. McMullin will probably be below Stein.

People. there aren't 100 people in this country outside Atlas and his family who know who McMullin is.
88  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump supporters react to satirical campaign ads on: August 18, 2016, 12:13:09 am
I think I doubted the testimonials they gave at the end. That crossed the line from stupidity to obvious satire.

However, it's quite possible they were asked to read a cue card of attack lines "prepared by the Trump campaign".... Yeah, i could see it.

Thimk abot the idiot Trump supporters on the Forum. Fuzzy Bear is the only one who can string coherent thoughts together, and sometimes even he....well..... (though I think even he understands now that Clinton's Iraq vote pales in comparison to Trump's warmongering, and Trump's opposition to trade deals is at LEAST as opportunistic as Hillary's opposition to the TPP.

Anyhoo, judging from the morons among us, these guys are all too real.
89  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Unskewing megathread - Latest: Trump will win in landslide because Twitter on: August 17, 2016, 07:28:36 pm
Even without getting into the methodology problems, it's not possible for a group of 13 people to get 50,000 responses in less than 2 weeks. Let's assume an extremely favorable timing of 1 response every 10 minutes (factoring in time it takes to make calls, low response rate, and time to complete a response). That's 500,000 minutes, or 641 hours per person. There's only 336 total hours in 2 weeks.

I posted this earlier to that stupid page:

Quote
OK, so some common sense is in order here. First of all, "P.G. Farnsworth" claims that she and some of her friends (who are "all Graduate students from all walks of life") just decided to dial numbers and speak with 50,000 households for free to create this poll. Everybody's used a phone before so consider your personal experience: let's say it takes 20 seconds to dial a number and wait for the phone to be answered/go to voicemail/hang up. Those who have phone-banked in politics before know that you're lucky to get 10-20% of people called to answer and talk to you when dialing numbers from the voter file or phone book (usually less than 10%). Let's be generous and just assume 20% of people called answered the phone and actually answered questions. That means a total of 250,000 phone numbers dialed to get 50,000 responses.

250,000 numbers dialed x 20 seconds = 5,000,000 seconds of time spent dialing numbers. Translated, that's 83333 minutes. Translated again, that's 1388 hours. Even if she had 13 friends helping her, that means each person spent 99 hours dialing random people.

That's just the dialing. She claims that they *spoke with* 50,000 people, which would take even longer. Even if it's just one question ("who are you voting for?"), that's probably still around one minute per call factoring in all the banter. Which means that even with 14 people dialing, it would take 297 hours of work per person to contact that many people. That's more than twelve full 24-hour days of work with a 13-person team dialing at maximum efficiency.

And we're supposed to believe they did this - for free? Especially when they didn't even record basic information like any real pollster would and publish it so their efforts could be verified to some degree? OK.

Adam: when did you make your post? i just scowered the comments section looking for it to see if anyone responded and didn't see it. Maybe it was deleted for excessive factual analysis? Grin
90  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Unskewing megathread - Latest: Trump will win in landslide because Twitter on: August 17, 2016, 07:05:02 pm
That's stupid, because they should really weigh their results by population. It's not like people in Alaska are going to vote at the same numbers as people in California. And what's their phone bill after 50,000 phone calls?

I have questions.

1. Did they use a random-digit dialer? Live interviewer or IVR, and were their known effects controlled?
2. Did they call cell phones or provide Spanish-language options? Blended-frame?
3. What were the timeframe and calling hours? How many attempts per number?
4. How did they randomize within households?
5. What demographic data was collected?
6. Were questions and answers randomized in any way?
7. Was the questionnaire tested for wording and order effects?
8. Was a likely voter screen applied? How hard were leaners pushed?
9. Was the sample weighted, and how? ACS, voter reg, both? Was aging out/in a factor? Was the process simultaneous, iterative, or both?
10. Do they know how to calculate the margin of error for each proportion? What confidence level was used?


More important question: Are they just lying out their asses?

Both of you are missing a VERY important point. They gave each state the same impact in their poll i.e  the poll acts as if all states are the same size.

Wyoming is not as big as California.

of course Vermont isn't big as Texas either, nor Hawaii as large as Tennessee. but still, that type of smallbstate overbalance, plus a 1/3 even division amog dems, repubs and indies gives a VERY bad shift from reality.
91  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: TX-PPP: Trump +6 on: August 17, 2016, 06:00:16 pm
Quote
We continue to find that Trump voters overwhelmingly buy into his preemptive claims about the election being rigged. Just 19% of Trump voters grant that if Clinton wins the election it will be because she got more votes, while 71% say that it will just be because the election was rigged. More specifically 40% of Trump voters think that ACORN, which hasn't existed in years, will steal the election for Clinton to only 20% who don't think it will, and only 20% who are unsure. Some things Trump says are a step too far even for his support base though. We find that 'just' 35% of Trump supporters think Barack Obama founded ISIS, to 48% who don't think he's responsible for that.

Quote
Overall 26% of voters would support leaving the United States to 59% who want to stay, and 15% who aren't sure either way. Among Trump voters support for secession goes up to 37%, with only
49% opposed to exiting. If you look at the Presidential race in Texas only among voters who are opposed to seceding from the United State, Clinton leads Trump 54/41. But that's offset by Trump's 72/20 advantage with the secession crowd. If Clinton is elected President this fall, the Trump voters really want out- in that case 61% say they'd support seceding from the United States, to only 29% who
would stick around.

Sad. the lack of pariotism of Texas Trump supporters is revolting.
92  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will Trump win any counties in Hawaii and Vermont? on: August 16, 2016, 11:00:27 pm
of course not. don't be silly.
93  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Pence campaigning in NM?!? on: August 16, 2016, 10:59:00 pm
even more stupid is trump campaigning in MI next week too.
94  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Violent protests in Milwaukee after police shooting on: August 16, 2016, 04:57:48 pm
Well I see Scott Walker is still terrible as usual. Someone throws a brick through the window of a Denny's, and he calls out the National Guard. Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even do that in Dallas last month when 5 officers were murdered! Great proportionate response Scott.

On a more serious note, since the man who was killed was armed, I doubt there will be any national outrage in this case.

Good thing though is that he only activated them if need and they would be called out by the MPD instead of the insane Clarke. In other good news they weren't needed. The other reason why they were called out was the "protesters" and an elected Alderman were basically threatening to burn condo towers on the east side.

The guy that was shot was involved in a shooting and then witness intimidation last year. While both BLMs (Black and Blue) both have good points they are led by some of most racist, idiotic people ever.

The BP that was burned had an owner/worker (can't remember which) allegedly shoot at a group of loitering black men that were supposedly armed last month and there were protests about boycotts about that. This is also happening in the heart of the ghetto so they're burning what little they have and likely making it harder for any type of jobs to get in to that area.

IIs Clarke really that bad, MJ? i know. He spoke in defense of Trump at the RNC, but when even another WI Republican thinks he's insane...Shocked

I've heard him referred as "the black Joe Arpiao". What's your take on him, MJ?

He's said BLM is supporting ISIS. Said there is no such thing as Racism. Told people to arm themselves because the policy won't be there in time. Wants to send the national guard in to the north side and basically shoot up the protesters.

The list goes on, guy is nuts and on a power trip. He had a guy arrested once for writing something in the newspaper that he thought was mean. Got removed from running the county jail system for incompetence. Has said the county executive hates him because he has a small penis.

Yeah, Clarke is nuts, is power hungry, wants some higher office. It was funny back in 2004 when he ran for mayor and got third place by quite a bit.

EDIT: If Clarke had his way he would send the national guard in and have them mow down all the protesters. He's made it clear he thinks BLM and protesters are terrorists and they should be shot.

Geez! That's in some ways even worse than Arpaio. How the hell does he stay elected in such an overwhelmingly Democratic county?

EDIT: Per Wiki he's still a registered Democrat despite speaking at the RNC, and the answer to my question is "just barely" by squeeking out wins of 54%, 53%, and 52% in his last three primaries. my guess is he either retires or is toast in 18.

Tbh he should run for President as a Republican in 2020, he could be a top contender if we're being real here.

i doubt that. Senator though..........?
95  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Violent protests in Milwaukee after police shooting on: August 15, 2016, 04:13:22 pm
Well I see Scott Walker is still terrible as usual. Someone throws a brick through the window of a Denny's, and he calls out the National Guard. Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even do that in Dallas last month when 5 officers were murdered! Great proportionate response Scott.

On a more serious note, since the man who was killed was armed, I doubt there will be any national outrage in this case.

Good thing though is that he only activated them if need and they would be called out by the MPD instead of the insane Clarke. In other good news they weren't needed. The other reason why they were called out was the "protesters" and an elected Alderman were basically threatening to burn condo towers on the east side.

The guy that was shot was involved in a shooting and then witness intimidation last year. While both BLMs (Black and Blue) both have good points they are led by some of most racist, idiotic people ever.

The BP that was burned had an owner/worker (can't remember which) allegedly shoot at a group of loitering black men that were supposedly armed last month and there were protests about boycotts about that. This is also happening in the heart of the ghetto so they're burning what little they have and likely making it harder for any type of jobs to get in to that area.

IIs Clarke really that bad, MJ? i know. He spoke in defense of Trump at the RNC, but when even another WI Republican thinks he's insane...Shocked

I've heard him referred as "the black Joe Arpiao". What's your take on him, MJ?

He's said BLM is supporting ISIS. Said there is no such thing as Racism. Told people to arm themselves because the policy won't be there in time. Wants to send the national guard in to the north side and basically shoot up the protesters.

The list goes on, guy is nuts and on a power trip. He had a guy arrested once for writing something in the newspaper that he thought was mean. Got removed from running the county jail system for incompetence. Has said the county executive hates him because he has a small penis.

Yeah, Clarke is nuts, is power hungry, wants some higher office. It was funny back in 2004 when he ran for mayor and got third place by quite a bit.

EDIT: If Clarke had his way he would send the national guard in and have them mow down all the protesters. He's made it clear he thinks BLM and protesters are terrorists and they should be shot.

Geez! That's in some ways even worse than Arpaio. How the hell does he stay elected in such an overwhelmingly Democratic county?

EDIT: Per Wiki he's still a registered Democrat despite speaking at the RNC, and the answer to my question is "just barely" by squeeking out wins of 54%, 53%, and 52% in his last three primaries. my guess is he either retires or is toast in 18.
96  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Violent protests in Milwaukee after police shooting on: August 15, 2016, 04:08:44 pm
Well I see Scott Walker is still terrible as usual. Someone throws a brick through the window of a Denny's, and he calls out the National Guard. Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even do that in Dallas last month when 5 officers were murdered! Great proportionate response Scott.

On a more serious note, since the man who was killed was armed, I doubt there will be any national outrage in this case.

Good thing though is that he only activated them if need and they would be called out by the MPD instead of the insane Clarke. In other good news they weren't needed. The other reason why they were called out was the "protesters" and an elected Alderman were basically threatening to burn condo towers on the east side.

The guy that was shot was involved in a shooting and then witness intimidation last year. While both BLMs (Black and Blue) both have good points they are led by some of most racist, idiotic people ever.

The BP that was burned had an owner/worker (can't remember which) allegedly shoot at a group of loitering black men that were supposedly armed last month and there were protests about boycotts about that. This is also happening in the heart of the ghetto so they're burning what little they have and likely making it harder for any type of jobs to get in to that area.

IIs Clarke really that bad, MJ? i know. He spoke in defense of Trump at the RNC, but when even another WI Republican thinks he's insane...Shocked

I've heard him referred as "the black Joe Arpiao". What's your take on him, MJ?

He's said BLM is supporting ISIS. Said there is no such thing as Racism. Told people to arm themselves because the policy won't be there in time. Wants to send the national guard in to the north side and basically shoot up the protesters.

The list goes on, guy is nuts and on a power trip. He had a guy arrested once for writing something in the newspaper that he thought was mean. Got removed from running the county jail system for incompetence. Has said the county executive hates him because he has a small penis.

Yeah, Clarke is nuts, is power hungry, wants some higher office. It was funny back in 2004 when he ran for mayor and got third place by quite a bit.

EDIT: If Clarke had his way he would send the national guard in and have them mow down all the protesters. He's made it clear he thinks BLM and protesters are terrorists and they should be shot.

Geez! That's in some ways even worse than Arpaio. How the hell does he stay elected in such an overwhelmingly Democratic county?
97  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Violent protests in Milwaukee after police shooting on: August 15, 2016, 09:17:26 am
Well I see Scott Walker is still terrible as usual. Someone throws a brick through the window of a Denny's, and he calls out the National Guard. Correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't even do that in Dallas last month when 5 officers were murdered! Great proportionate response Scott.

On a more serious note, since the man who was killed was armed, I doubt there will be any national outrage in this case.

Good thing though is that he only activated them if need and they would be called out by the MPD instead of the insane Clarke. In other good news they weren't needed. The other reason why they were called out was the "protesters" and an elected Alderman were basically threatening to burn condo towers on the east side.

The guy that was shot was involved in a shooting and then witness intimidation last year. While both BLMs (Black and Blue) both have good points they are led by some of most racist, idiotic people ever.

The BP that was burned had an owner/worker (can't remember which) allegedly shoot at a group of loitering black men that were supposedly armed last month and there were protests about boycotts about that. This is also happening in the heart of the ghetto so they're burning what little they have and likely making it harder for any type of jobs to get in to that area.

IIs Clarke really that bad, MJ? i know. He spoke in defense of Trump at the RNC, but when even another WI Republican thinks he's insane...Shocked

I've heard him referred as "the black Joe Arpiao". What's your take on him, MJ?
98  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: Gravis/Breitbart National: Clinton +5 on: August 14, 2016, 11:48:05 pm
99  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: A conservative activist's chilling comments about truth and the election. on: August 14, 2016, 11:33:10 pm
one of the worst things that ever happened to our country was ending the Fairness doctrine.
100  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Who'll win the Milwaukee suburbs? on: August 14, 2016, 11:27:31 pm
Trump will win the WOW counties, but by a much smaller margin than most Republicans.
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