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1  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What has been the consistent theme of the Democratic Party since it's founding? on: May 21, 2015, 06:21:23 pm
Before the 20th century, both political parties were defined by sectional, ethnic and interest group ties, rather than ideology.  So, the enterprise of finding an ideological through line is fatally flawed.

Yes, but hatred of the yellow menace seems to be the one constant, regardless if it's railroad workers in the west or uneducated hicks from Michigan.

Racism against Asians was never unique to the Democratic party.  And, it didn't really exist when the Democratic party was founded, as there were no Asians in the United States.  

What are you driving at?

Of course not, just pointing out that it's not so fairly surprising that some forum Democrats flub their noses at conversations that bring up a war that causes millions of dead Asians because "my Medicare" or something to that effect.

It is quite telling they foam at the mouth about the death of 10,000 Native Americans in the 1830s, but not the death of more than a million innocent Asian civilians in Vietnam.

I can't believe with all of the uber obvious trolling that I had been doing on this matter for the past day and a half I had to explain it like this.
2  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What has been the consistent theme of the Democratic Party since it's founding? on: May 21, 2015, 01:08:35 pm
Before the 20th century, both political parties were defined by sectional, ethnic and interest group ties, rather than ideology.  So, the enterprise of finding an ideological through line is fatally flawed.

Yes, but hatred of the yellow menace seems to be the one constant, regardless if it's railroad workers in the west or uneducated hicks from Michigan.
3  General Politics / Individual Politics / How many Asians need to die in wars started by Americans on: May 21, 2015, 11:36:27 am
Tough choice but I think I'll go with Options 1 and 6,
4  General Politics / Individual Politics / What has been the consistent theme of the Democratic Party since it's founding? on: May 21, 2015, 11:30:06 am
Hmm, tough choice but I think I will go with option 5.
5  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: The Democratic Party's Greatest Hits! on: May 21, 2015, 06:52:51 am
What I have learned so far from Democrats over the past few days:

Acts of mass murder against them yellows doesn't count.  After all, that is only 599,000 less people who will be taking your job someday.

6  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 20, 2015, 09:01:47 pm
Back in '68
Montana State Penitentiary
Warden's Office:

Through the doors a 6'6" well muscled white guy with red hair is pushed through.  Clad in prisoner coveralls and with fresh bruises from where a baton hit him in the face while resisting arrest at a protest, the defiant Scott Westman stood before the Warden with a defiant look in his eye.
Fuckin anti-war activists.  I would love to just line them all up against the wall and shoot them.
Warden Charlie Davato must admit that he was actually a little intimidated by Scott Westman.  Usually a lot of these losers he arrests are real wimpy looking motherfuckers who are just a hair taller than his sister.  This Westman dude though?  Damn, he was one tough looking bastard.  He believed the reports that Westman sent a police officer to a hospital, might've just knocked him out cold with his bare hand.  This was one hardass mick who he would not mess with unless he was in chains and surrounded by armed police officers.
But damn, this tough bastard had hair like a girl.  He probably even straightened it too and shit, the damn faggot he was.  He really didn't get how young women (and in Westman's case, girls) fawn over shit like this.  Hair down to his shoulder blades, shit, if he saw Westman from the back he might mistake it for a woman he would love to fuck.
Don't get any wrong ideas though.  I ain't no faggot.  I don't do crazy queer shit like making soup of some guy's insides.  No siree.  Don't get any ideas here.
He opens Westman's file and starts glaring at him.  What kind of 23 fuckin year old college student wastes their life away getting involved in this shit?  I mean, this guy was supposedly studying to be a Bachelor's in History.  I wish I had a fuckin Bachelor's degree.  I don't get paid near enough to enjoy this shit.
Davato snorts.
Davato: Please, take a seat. . . . Westman.
Scott Westman takes a seat.  Davato seems surprised by his straightforward approach.  By the reports of the arresting officers this one was a real live wire, supposedly threw one of the guys through a fuckin storefront window.
Davato: Mr. Westman, I'm assuming you know why you're here?
Westman: Do I look like a fuckin moron?  Of course I know why I'm here, you fuckin fascist!
Westman spits on the ground.
Oh, there he is.
Davato: Lookit pal!  We got certain rules and standards for you to follow!  I know you don't like being in prison, nobody does!  You probably even think you are in here for bullshit reasons.  I am usually not in the mood of entertaining hippies and shit.  But for some reason, you got tried in a court of law and put behind bars for the next 18 months.  That sucks.  The important part now is learning to live to deal with that.
Westman looks at him with incredulity.
Westman: You think this motherfuckin act is winning my heart over pal?  I've seen this shit before!  You think you can just buy my confidence like that!?
The warden looks back at him and comments.
Davato: You better watch your damn mouth, son!
Davato looks at Westman's file.
Davato: Aww here we go: Scott Augustus Westman.  Sounds Catholic.
Westman: Yeah no shit asshole.
Davato: What kind of Irish name is "Westman" anyway?
Westman: I don't know asshole, why don't you tell me?
Davato: Age: 23.  Height: 6'6".  Weight: 225 lbs.  Marital Status: Single.  One daughter.. . . . . . age 4.
Westman: Yeah what's it to you asshole?
Davato: Nothin, I'm just wondering what a single father is doing causing nothing but problems in society.  Don't you want to be a good role model?
Westman: I didn't come here for no fuckin lecture-
The Warden comes out of his chair and practically lunges at Westman.  He gets within inches of his ear and starts talking.
Davato: Listen shithead, anytime you want to raise hell I will be ready to pounce your ass.  You just say the word and I will be five feet up your ass!
Westman laughs.
Westman: I really don't go for that, Warden.  You are going to have to get your kicks some other way.
The Warden laughs.
Davato: Well, enjoy your stay, Mr. Westman.
Westman gets up and walks out of the room.  As he does, one of the fellow inmates asks after him.
Julio Rodriguez: Hey you there! What did you and the Warden talk about?
Westman turns back towards Julio.
Westman: He said he is really craving some asses.
Julio: No shit?
Westman: Well he didn't really have to say anything.  Fuckin queer was practically salivating over me.
Julio: Damn bro!  I wouldn't get on his bad side if I were you!
Westman laughs.
Westman: Yeah, tell me about it.
7  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 20, 2015, 06:57:34 pm
For the record, this is non-canon.  A lot of details are similar to the other timeline, but to allow more creative freedom (ie I decide to change the past because I find it more interesting) I have decided that this isn't a direct sequel to Part II.

8  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is Atlas a right wing forum? on: May 20, 2015, 06:39:21 pm
A group of true leftist fringe posters, foot soldier Democrats, independents who are almost unanimously left of center and a minority of Republicans - most of whom are socially liberal - is RIGHT WING?!

Lol, okay.  Thankfully for the world, the vast majority of people don't take some of you guys' fringe views seriously.

Okay seriously this is probably closer to the truth.  But I got a persona to perpetuate, DAMN IT!
9  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are the Lives of Native Americans more important than dissolving national banks? on: May 20, 2015, 06:37:25 pm
40,000? The Trail of Tears didn't kill anywhere near 40,000 people....

Okay, maybe I am remembering my numbers wrong here Tongue.  Might have been that 40,000 were forcibly removed and 20,000 of them died or something.  I just know it was a lot.

Okay, just read wikipedia.  Apparently it is a lot lower than that (like 16,000 or so).  Still kind of bad.
10  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: The Democratic Party's Greatest Hits! on: May 20, 2015, 06:00:19 pm
It's official:

11  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are the lives of Southeast Asians less important than Native Americans on: May 20, 2015, 11:59:01 am
lol at the idea that death tolls are not important.  Jackson would have had to have done the Indian Removal Act at least 100 times to equal the amount killed because of misguided US Policy in Southeast Asia.

EDIT: Apparently I had an extremely liberal estimate of how many died in the Trail of Tears.  So I revised the number accordingly.
12  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Are the Lives of Native Americans more important than dissolving national banks? on: May 20, 2015, 11:56:48 am
I'm not sure what this question is trying to prove here, as it doesn't really negate my point about how some on this website completely ignore the outright savagery that was Vietnam because it is a dark black mark on LBJ's record.  We should indeed view Andrew Jackson with a great deal of negativity for his anti-Indian policies just as much as we should view LBJ negatively for greenlighting a war that killed over a million Southeast Asians.

As for the troll question itself, yes of course.  I don't know how 40,000 lives are less important than an admittedly corrupt financial institution.  Ideally I would have liked to have not killed 40,000 Native Americans AND dissolve the Second Bank of the United States, but if you are giving me a do or die decision I will obviously go with the former (especially since given the latter's biggest crime was political cronyism, which is a bit less of a crime than say genocide).
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Checkmate, True Leftists on: May 20, 2015, 11:51:01 am
FDR was a neoliberal racist warmonger. Tongue
14  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the R-Word Campaign on: May 20, 2015, 07:51:36 am
Saw their ad not too long ago.

Soon we'll be getting "i-word" and "m-word" campaigns due to their historical use in describing the mentally ill. These folks will never run out over things to get offended over.

Yes, I mean I can respect that words like "retard" have a certain very negative connotation but let's focus on the real issues SJWs.  Like, the insanely terrible state that mental health care is in this nation.
15  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Rhode Island on: May 20, 2015, 06:45:23 am
Moar Like Chode Island, amiriteuguise?
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / How will this board react when Hillary Clinton loses in 2016? on: May 20, 2015, 05:58:30 am
Yes this is a troll question, but given the predictions leading up to 2014 and the reactions thereafter I think it is a very relevant scenario to ponder.

But yes I know, POLLS ARE GOD!!
17  General Politics / Individual Politics / Are the lives of Southeast Asians less important than Native Americans on: May 20, 2015, 05:38:28 am
18  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is Atlas a right wing forum? on: May 20, 2015, 05:33:06 am
We have some posters who seem to think that the deaths of millions of Southeast Asians is not at all important or relevant to the legacies of a couple of presidents.  I would say yes.
19  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Who was the better president? William Henry Harrison or LBJ? on: May 20, 2015, 05:10:22 am
Easily Johnson.

I agree with HST in that the only way to evaluate WHH is that you have to look at his career before being president. SWE wouldn't be saying otherwise if someone like Goering emigrated to Argentina after the war and became president there. And that effects his performance as president of Argentina how?

Anyway, WHH was a major force behind displacing Native Americans (and that's putting it kindly), as well as tried to establish slavery in Indiana as HST mentioned. Obviously LBJ is preferable to him despite Vietnam.

Yes because the lives of MILLIONS of Vietnamese aren't as important as the few hundred black people who lived in Indiana at the time or the few tens of thousands that Harrison displaced.

Very Relevant article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties

If there is any justice in this world LBJ will be remembered by our grandchildren about as fondly as we remember Andrew Jackson.
20  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 18, 2015, 07:14:52 pm
On the plane

Westman and Sanders find seats near the end of the aisle.  Settling back on the chair, Westman lets out a sigh.
Westman: God, how does anyone sit in these things?  It's tiny!
Sanders: Well, people gotta fly somewhere don't they?  Can't complain too much.
Just then there was a loud voice near the front.
Loud voice: You gotta be kidding me Paul!  Economy class!
"Paul": Brock!  Relax!  It is just a temporary budget cutback!  Corporate doesn't want us wasting too much on First Class-
Just then Westman sees the huge dude walk through the separator curtain between First Class and Economy Class.  He recognized him well.
Brock Lesnar: I am the damn New World Order/World Championship Wrestling Undisputed Champion!  I deserve the First Class goddamn it!
Westman: Holy shit!  Holy shit!  Holy shit!  IT'S LESNAR!
Paul Heyman: Lookit!  They said that after the next buyrates for the PPV they would reconsider!
Lesnar: Not good enough goddamnit!  You realize that means I have to sit with these stupid hicks!
Several passengers start cussing and booing Lesnar.
Man this is some real good heat.  I wonder where the camera phone is in the crowd?
Lesnar flips off a small child.
Lesnar: Yeah fuck you!  Fuck you you little asshole!  I am the goddamn Undisputed champion!  I demand a First Class seat!
A stewardess comes from up the front.
Stewardess: Sir, I am sorry but your company booked you in economy class!  Quit swearing and just enjoy the flight!
Lesnar reaches out for the stewardess when he is stopped by a tall dude with a very muscular hand.
Lesnar looks across at the man with some disdain.
Lesnar: Paul Barrett.
Barrett: Just sit down Lesnar.  It's just a seat damn it!
Lesnar throws his hand away and just glares at the man.  Westman jumps up between them, pushing the two men apart.
Westman: Well settle down you two big dudes!  Come on, just for this ride man!  I mean nobody like this shit, do they!?  HEY DO ANY OF YOUR PEOPLE ENJOY SITTING IN THESE CRAMPED SEATS!  I MEAN DAMN IT DO YOU!
Loud murmurs of agreement are heard in the cabin.
Westman: I certainly would like more room if I am paying $350 damn it!  And that is all the way to DC!
Westman puts his hand to the side of his mouth and mouths "IT'S AN ACT!" to the stewardess.  She nods and just goes about her business.
The chaos settles down as Westman takes his seat in the second seat from the aisle.  To his immense shock, Lesnar sits next to him.  Lesnar, still steamed, takes a moment and offers a hand to Westman.
Lesnar: Look, sorry I flipped out.  The schedule this time of the year is just so stressful and I need my sleep.
Westman looks at him incredulously.
Westman: Hey pal!  I know all the tricks of the trade!  You don't have to cover to me man!  I know you are just setting this up for the next PPV!
Lesnar looks at him with irritation.
Westman: Just tell me where the cell phone was that took video of the entire thing.  I mean damn, I heard about impromptu acts, and this was truly one of the great ones man.  Amazing way to build heat by having someone video you calling Missoulans a bunch of hicks man!  I must hand it to you you are the best at that!
Lesnar looks very frustrated.
Lesnar: That was real damn it!  Didn't you see that!
Westman: Yes quite a setup too I tell you.  COme onto this plane voicing outrage over "last minute changes" with no cameramen around.  Kudos my friend, my hat is off to you.
Lesnar: Whatever.  Just let me sleep and we'll be alright.
Westman: Hey, so I thought I would just ask you what is it like, wrestling in the ring?
Lesnar: Well, it is very hectic and very tiring.  You have to be in the top shape.  It is not all "fake" like everyone says.  A lot of energy is burnt and a lot of muscles are sore by the end of the day.
Westman: Oh really?  You remember that much about it?
Lesnar is fuming.
Westman: Well I mean, you wrestle what, every six months or so?  Shit there are many things I forget in that time period.
On impulse Lesnar grabs Westman by the back of his head and shoves his face full force into the tray on the back of the seat in front of him, rendering him unconscious.
Lesnar: Motherfucker!
Sanders looks over at him.
Lesnar: He went to sleep!  SO will you if you don't mind your own business!
Sanders nods, before commenting.
Sanders: For the record, THANK YOU.
21  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which do you find more ironic? on: May 18, 2015, 03:16:58 pm
Tough call. On an unrelated note, it's also sort of funny that Hillary Clinton, whose entire political career has been bankrolled by the financial sector, is the one suggesting removing the most rabid opponent of the banking system to ever serve as President of the U.S.

The former.

Jacksons ghost would probably be overjoyed he is getting knocked off the twenty dollar bill.
22  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 18, 2015, 11:40:31 am
Missoula International Airport:

Scott Westman arrives and sees Sanders waiting near the security checkpoint with a group of Secret Service men.  Looking around, Westman checks to see if there are any hidden press agents.
Westman: Whew, you guys really planned this out good.  I guess nobody was expecting a trip all the way out here!
Sanders: More likely they didn't anticipate that one of our choices would be you.  Hell, most of them probably think you are dead.
Westman grimaces.
Sanders: Sorry, just straight shooting here.
Westman: I am younger than you, Senator Brontosaurus.
Sanders: Yes, but at this age who is keeping count anymore?  Let's save the cute and funny remarks for the plane ride shall we?
Westman: Fine, Senator Ass Wipe.
Sanders just raises his eyebrows sardonically while the team moves towards the checkpoint.  Waving out their badges, Secret Service clears them through the checkpoint.
Hehehe, Secret Service does have some benefits after all.
Westman: What the hell was that?
Sanders: What?
Westman: They just waved Secret Service through!
Sanders: So?
Westman: I thought they scanned everybody!  Where the hell is the transparency and openness about our nation's security?  I thought the Shilling hacks were all about that?
Sanders: Just shut up and move damn it.  I want to make it to the airplane on time.
Westman: You mean we are flying Economy?
Sanders: Yes.
Westman: You didn't even have the decency to get me a damn private jet?
Sanders: We at the DNC believe in watching costs carefully as well as not giving the impression of elitism.  If I had brought the private jet to pick you up the right wing media would be all the way up our asses for hypocrisy.
Westman gives an impressed shrug.
Westman: Fair enough.  Maybe we'll meet Brock Lesnar on board.
Sanders: Who?
Westman: Oh nevermind.  Probably wouldn't interest an old fart like you.
Sanders gives Westman an implied facepalm.
Sanders: Remember, just because that is vapor doesn't mean that you can smoke it on the airplane.  In fact, I would hide that somewhere in your carryon bag.  Security sees you with it they will flip one.
Westman opens up his bag and puts the vapor in it.
Sanders: Alright, here is the gate.  We got seats 12E and 12 F.
Westman: Jesus, you weren't kidding about Economy Class, were you?
Sanders: No I wasn't.  I don't joke about anything.
Westman: Well, I at least hope one of those seats is an aisle seat.
23  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 17, 2015, 10:25:29 pm
Westman's House:

Scott Westman has a bag open and is putting some clothes in it when a 5'10 auburn hair young woman in her early twenties walks in and pecks him on the cheek.
Anna Westman: Hi daddy!
Anna Westman was Westman's youngest child.  She was also the last child he had with Caroline Kennedy.  The incident of her conception was almost an accident, the result of a drunken night of passion between the about to be divorced couple at Westman's Flathead Lake Estate.
That Westman didn't have any more children after that was something of an anomaly given the prolificacy of his seed.  On top of his known children several former lovers have made claims to have born his birth children over the decades.
Westman: Listen I'm going to be gone for a few days.  You need anything, you call Carl, alright?
Anna: Sure thing.
Westman is headed toward the door when he remembers something.
Westman: How could I forget!
He goes to his bedside table and picks up a photo of a redheaded woman who looked to be in her late thirties.  Inscribed on below the photo were the words "To those who have loved and lost much, we have only the road ahead."
That's what I told myself the first two years.  After that it seemed to be just meaningless bullshit.  THe author of that quote had no idea what he went through a decade later.
Of course she didn't, she had said that before the illness took her.

Westman looks at the picture, and gives it a faint smile.
Westman: Well, Brea, it looks like you were right all along.  No matter how hard I try, it always catches back up with me again.  Time to get back on the road again.
Westman walks off, stuffing the bedside picture into his bag.  On the back was inscribed With Much Love, Your Eldest, Brea.  September 11, 1998.
A decade before the illness took her.  The last of the good times, arguably.
24  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Resurrection: An alternate timeline of the present by Mechaman on: May 17, 2015, 10:07:08 pm
At a nearby bakery:

Westman pulls out a vapor smoker and takes a puff.  Sanders looks on in shock.
Westman looks back at him.
Sanders: You are smoking again?!
Westman laughs.
Westman: Bernie Bernie, lighten up would ya?  This is not the same as regular smoke!  You see?  No smell no tar.  Only the nicotine and vapor.  It can't kill me.
Sanders: That's what they all say.  Next thing you know you will be coughing up a lung.  Besides didn't you just survive cancer?
Westman: Yes, of the liver.  I can't drink any more, what the hell else can I do?  Besides sex, at this age I can't really get it up anymore.  Shit, it must have been years since I last lain with a woman.
Sanders: Really!?  You?!  Scott Westman!?  Years?!
Westman sighs.
Westman: Old age is a freaking bitch man.  Let me tell you what, that freaking chemo really destroyed my libido.  Just freaking destroyed it.  I'm shocked I haven't grown breasts or some shit yet.
Westman takes another puff.
Sanders: Yikes, sounds horrible.  Would you be offended if I told you you were a shadow of your former self?
Westman laughs.
Westman: Medical technology these days man.  They can give you a fake liver apparently.  Sadly, you can't drink shit through it.  Could be worse.  I could have gone through my second divorce again.  That woman man, she took me to the shed and back.  Turned me off to marriage for good.  First divorce was okay, I just lost $50 million.  Second divorce?  Man I was already on my way to the poorhouse before that!
Sanders: That's all very fascinating Scott.  Now-
Westman pushes aside Bernie's left hand with one of his one.
Westman: SHush!  I ain't done yet!  You came here and you wanted to talk to me, well you are going to have to listen!  How bad do you want me Bernie?  How bad!?
Sanders nods.
Westman: That bad!  Well good!  Anyway, I have managed to survive this long with Fake Liver and Irritable Bowel Syndrome so I think I should be good to go for a few more decades.  Father Time may have kicked my ass royally, but he has not put this old son of a gun out of business just yet!  You know what would though?
Sanders: What?
Westman groans.
Westman: Putting my three kids through graduate school.  That's what.
Sanders: You have kids in school?  I thought they had all gone past that?
Westman chuckles.
Westman: You kiddin?  Peter is on his last year at Stanford pursuing his Masters in Medieval Architecture or some bullshit.  Paul, after spending a few years at home, has suddenly decided to quit his bar job and start working towards a Masters in British Architecture or some bullshit.  And Anna?  Hahahahahahaha, that girl is still a freaking babe man.  In her last year at Montana U man!
Sanders seemed shocked hearing that.  Scott Westman, 69 years old, still had a child who had not graduated from undergrad.  Of course he thought back and remembers that Anna was born in like late 1992, so that made some sense.
Sanders: So, I guess that Caroline hasn't been keeping in as much contact anymore?
Westman laughs.
Westman: You would think right?  Well, according to the agreement she had them until they turned 18 or some shit and left me with the bill.  Both of those boys, totally feeling all of it on the pocketbook.  That is why I'm taking on some of these extra gigs man.  Regular Master's coursework is not enough to pay for all of this shit even with what little I have left of my stock savings and selling the Flathead Estate.  Dear god, why did I sell that place?!  It was the most amazing place ever, wasn't it?
Sanders doesn't remember ever being invited to Westman's Flathead Lake Estate.  Westman usually just brought over women he was going to bed and his dope buddies in the past.  Hell, Thad O'Connor practically lived there on and off during the year and a half he was unemployed.
Sanders: I wouldn't know Scott.  Lawrence Coventry really seemed to like it though, didn't he?
Westman scoffs.
Westman: Jesus, you are not actually bringing this up are you?  Lookit pal, Coventry had some of the meanest dope on the planet Earth!  I almost gave up one of my illegitimates for some of that!
A waiter comes by with a couple of baskets and sets them down in front of Westman and Sanders.  Sanders had the Roast Beef Supreme with two pickle spears on the side.  Westman had a Vegan Master with two celery sticks.  Westman nods and hands the waiter a tip.
Waiter: THank you sir.
Westman: DOn't mention it.
As the waiter walks off Sanders looks back at Westman shocked.
Sanders: Shocking.
Westman: What?  I tipped the guy, so?
Sanders: That was entirely civil of you!
Westman: No it wasn't.  In the past I would've tipped him more than his daily earnings likely.
Sanders: Yeah while giving him the shit for not allowing alcoholic beverages on site.
Westman laughs.
Westman: Well I got a freaking fake liver now!  That is not something I'll ever be askin, will it?
Sanders nods again.
Sanders: True, true.
Westman: Do you have any idea how freakin' painful it feels?!  TO never be able to drink again!?
Sanders: I can't imagine.  I've only been doing it for the past two decades.
Westman: Fuck you, asshole!
Sanders: There's the old Westman I know and love.
Sanders savors the taste.
Westman: You actually like that shit?
Sanders: Please don't call my sandwich shit.  It creates a disturbing mental image that makes me gag.
Westman: Well I'm sorry but it is.  That sandwich tastes like cold dick.
Sanders: (inadvertently) How would you know!?
There is an awkward silence between the two.
Westman: Are you going to lay your shit on now or did you just waste a bunch of freaking taxpayer dollars just to sit down and witness a one man comedy act while eating your freaking roast beef supreme?  Lay it on me and lay it on me think Sanders!  Why should I even consider this!?
Sanders puts his hands together.
Sanders: Well for starters, the job comes with full education reimbursement.  Enough to pay for all three of your kids' college.
Westman: Spoiled rotten kids.  Thinking they deserve to go through the best twelve years of their lives or something!  You know back in my damn day it only took seven!  What's wrong with kids these days!
Sander: I don't know, must be all that weed they are smoking.
Westman: Quiet you!  Both of my boys are responsible!  Sure they may smoke a lot of dope, but their grades so far have given me a lot of hope.  Daddy never had a problem with a little dope.  Maybe everyone else would have better children if they weren't so tied up with all of that paranoia about reefer having kids!  Sheyit man, at this rate Shilling might as well ban farts and orgasms!
Sanders buries his face in his hands, laughing his ass off.
Sanders: I. . . . . can't. . . . . . . fuckin. . . . . . do. . . . . this!
Westman: Okay fair enough, full reimbursement for my kids' colleges.  However, how does that beat a 30 hour workweek with premium rates for special appearances and speeches?
Sanders leans back and sizes Westman up.
Sanders: Well, you get to be the boss.
Westman nods.
Westman: Nothing wrong with that at all son.  I get sick and tired of all these young'un bureaucrats thinking they can lock me in an office the size of a supply closet.  I want a big ass office with big ass windows and a decent balcony for me and my smokes man.
Sanders: And oh yes. . . . . . .the secretary has got the most amazing rack!
Westman: Son, I am softer than a deflated bicycle wheel.  Explain how that helps me out nowdays?  I couldn't pull a hammer if I wanted too!
Sanders: You could get some Viagra.
Westman: And feel like my blood pressure is about to explode out of my dick!?  Hell no.  I'd rather be limpless.
Sanders: That makes no sense.
Westman: What?
Sanders: "I'd rather be limpless"?
Westman: What?
Sanders: "Limpless" kind of implies something that is erect, no?
Westman: What?
Sanders: So you wouldn't like Viagra but you would rather be limpless?
Westman: What?
Sanders: Stop damn it.  I mean that taking Viagra would make you limpless.
Westman: But what am I going to do with this thing?  Seriously?  I mean, back in the day I could throw some serious ball around, but now?  It's Derringer quality at best man.
Sanders: Okay, forget the hot secretary damn it!  She wasn't going to screw you anyway!  How about 20 weeks of paid vacation?
Westman's ears light up.
Westman: Okay deal!
Sanders seems shocked.
Sanders: So, you weren't really interested in political considerations, or why we were interested in you, or . . . . . . .
Westman: Weren't you listening?  I'm poor damn it!  I'll take any position better than this one, that's for sure!  Half of those retards sleep through my lessons anyway!
Sanders: Wow okay.  Now, this doesn't mean you got the position.  We will need to hold a vote.  However, with a good enough PR campaign and a lot of money you can triumph over the alternatives.
Westman: "Beat the alternatives"?  What?
Sanders: Various faction infighting.  Cannot agree to change the lightbulbs on the foyer much less what direction to take the party.  I floated you as an alternate to both.  THey didn't necessarily seem enthused but they got how you would be a real good Chairman at this time given the backlash against Shilling and the class war debate.
Westman: Fine.  Just let me pack my bags.
Sanders: What?
Westman: Well you said it yourself, we need a good PR campaign.  If I am there in person it is easier to make a direct appeal.  You can't really get by nowdays with a remote campaign, can you?  Have you learned anything from 2012?  Jeez.  I'll see you at the airport.
25  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of sssuperflash on: May 17, 2015, 09:08:09 pm
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but since Mechaman raised some points that I found interesting, I'll respond to them.

- I did not see your first post. I will say that same of my satire was of the British guy with the Green avatar (Sibboleth?) rather than you.

- First off, I'm not of English descent or Congregationalist, or even Protestant at all. That isn't hugely important to the thread, but hopefully it helps you understand the angle I'm coming from. I don't necessarily love the WASPs either, but I would call them FFs on balance. I don't usually like to call whole ethnicities bad or good, but I feel that this particular one gets a little bit of a bad shake (for understandable reasons, most of the time).

- I never really thought you said Yankees were ALL racist, but I felt like you didn't really give them a fair shake. This goes back to a point which you made about history not being so easy to characterize. Here's an example. New Hampshire probably was the state with the fewest Irish immigrants in New England in the antebellum era. However, it tended to be rather Democratic and even elected Franklin Pierce, the first Democratic President from New England (and the only one except JFK, of course).

- Many of the Copperheads, especially in states like Ohio, were WASPs or German, not Irish Catholic. On the other hand, many of the best Union soldiers were Irish Catholics from New York or Massachusetts. This is why I feel some of the Civil War rhetoric about the Confederates being like the Irish rebels doesn't make much sense.

- I didn't say the Irish were robber baron lovers. I know about the history of the Irish people in America. They were often only at a position to do low wage jobs, and often their only hope was the political machines and the unions. That is understandable, and happens with immigrants today, albeit to a lesser extent. However,  when I studied things further, it seemed as though certain elections bucked this trend, including 1896, but as you explained, not completely.

- However, let's not forget that the Republicans helped poor people too, especially with the Homestead Act. I would NOT say that they were socialist, but they did seem to hold issues like 'wage slavery" in contempt, rather than modern Republicans who would say "well, the free market will settle itself." For this, I admire them, as well as the fact that people like Roosevelt (who you don't like that much, seemingly) and Taft (who I personally admire slightly more, though he wasn't the better President) were willing to expand governments power to fight monopolies. To be fair, these policies were mostly supported by the Midwestern Republicans, but still, the point stands.

- Also, did you realize that many of the WASPs that we are talking about weren't really living in a world similar to today? Most of them were fishermen, or perhaps farmers who were losing relevance with the rise of the Midwest. I mean, do you really blame them for being a bit suspicious of the Irish immigrants? Yes, they often held racist sentiments towards them, but when you put two cultures that have historically not liked each other right next to each other, there will be problems. The movie Gangs of New York shows this, I'm sure you've seen it.

- I actually think you make great posts most of the time. I admire your base of knowledge, and although I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, you seem to be a progressive, intelligent individual, who has contributed to this forum more than most others. I just want to debate, you see.

Alright, you just implied (in the thread not here) we were all a bunch of black hating racist scumbags who voted for monopolists.  Just FYI.

Admittedly a lot of my passionate posts and threads are largely due to that perception (and that the idea that said WASPs were angels and did not have their own societal faults (like the massive poverty during the Gilded Age).  Racism against non-whites is an unfortunate fact of Irish American history, but there is a lot more to it than that.  Unfortunately I interpreted your post in the other thread as an attack on us all and responded in kind.

Although your points about how racism against Irish people back then would be "understandable", I wonder if you would feel so comfortable making that statement about southern whites and blacks?  Or about Texans and Mexicans?  Thing is, racism is largely "understandable" by the offending party, regardless of who it is.  Does it make it ever justified?  No.
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