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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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76  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 08, 2015, 06:48:04 pm
Also interesting that there is still a 37% plurality for taking more refugees among Social Democrats (26% for fewer). The Liberal Folkpartiet also has a majority, whereas Centre voters are now mostly against it.

The gender gap is huge, there is almost a tie among women (34 less/33 more), but a clear 51/19 majority for fewer refugees among men. "Less" leads "more" among all age groups above 30 and increases with age.

Welcome to the forum.

Interesting to see the difference between official party position and voters when it comes to the Centre Party and the People's Party. (Though not that strange considering traditional voter base)

Also I can't help but wonder who the 2% SD sympathizers who wants to take more refugees are... Tongue 
77  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread on: November 08, 2015, 06:44:51 am
I'm sorry to tell you this, the Swedish government may not mean to sound like they're begging, but they do, in a real pathetic way

To me it sounds more like whining, than begging, but I would agree with the fact that it does seem rather pathetic.

To answer your original question, as to why the Swedish government is asking for something they will never get; my analysis is that it's a desperate attempt to get themselves out of a tricky situation of painting themselves into a corner on the immigration issue. On the one hand the government has committed itself to helping all asylum seekers and is thus not willing to adopt more strict limitations than those they agreed to recently with the opposition (bar the Left and Sweden Democrats) but on the other hand they're also out of money to pay for more immigration and are not willing to make any substantial cuts to other areas to finance the increased costs. The idea that they can appeal (or shame) other EU countries into doing more is their last hope of get out of that predicament.

It's pretty futile, but they have to signal the Swedish people that they are doing something at least.

 
78  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread on: November 08, 2015, 06:10:58 am
But Sweden, what about your duty to help all the people in the world? I think you simply have to place those refugees in private homes. Anyone that has more than 50 square meters to themselves can surely house a couple of migrants.

That was actually a recent proposal from the Greens here...

Source?

Of course!(In Swedish I'm afraid)
79  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Europe-Middle East-Africa Refugee Crisis General Thread on: November 07, 2015, 06:10:03 am
But Sweden, what about your duty to help all the people in the world? I think you simply have to place those refugees in private homes. Anyone that has more than 50 square meters to themselves can surely house a couple of migrants.

That was actually a recent proposal from the Greens here...
80  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 06, 2015, 09:51:06 am
But it's not really a very thoughtful or intelligent analysis. Not that I've ever expected either from you.

Lol, what an insult. Who are you to speak? Some professor?

You don't need to be a professor to conclude that a person who thinks artists are better than regular people at deciding politics, or that the way capital or large cities vote are predictive of future election results isn't the sharpest knife.

Quote
Even Obama has his flaws, so why shouldn't Gandhi?

... Are you now comparing a mediocre American president with the person you claim to be your greatest hero?
81  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 05, 2015, 08:08:31 am
The Romani that have been evicted from the Malmö camp are mostly from Romania, though some are also from Bulgaria. That is a well-known fact that anyone who follows Swedish news sources that is where these individuals are originally from. There have of course been Romani people in Sweden for generations, but it is not they who're occupying land at the moment.

Sweden will not deport the EU-migrants as it's not possible to secure how long they've been in the country (and they have a legal right to be here for three months) and the legal process would take too long and put too much pressure on the Migration Agency who are already stretched thin by the refugee crisis.

However, several individuals from the camp have already taken the offer to leave Sweden by their own will, and as winter approaches there is an idea that most of the others will choose to do so as well if they're not able to find another place to live. The Social Democratic and Green coalition that governs Malmö City Council has been very clear that they will not budge on breaking up illegal occupations of private property in the future, and that they'll not offer any alternative housing, despite being pressured to do so by the loud radical left activists. So there is not much choice but to go back to their home countries for these people even if they're not deported.

And I have nothing to apologize for in this thread as my statement was 100% rooted in facts. I'm seriously worried that Sweden will eventually become the new Denmark, and as we all know (yet you apparently refuse to recognize) Denmark is the Hungary of the Nordic countries, whether you like it or not. The far right government currently in office in Norway are trying to make Norway become the next Denmark as well btw. I guess you're gleeing in your house for that "joyful" development. Just because I'm a John Lennon (and Gandhi) who favours open borders doesn't mean that you are free to stereotype me as some awful human being.


First of you should really stop comparing yourself to Ghandi; it's a great insult on one of history's greatest men to a whiny forum . Second, no one has stereo-typed you in any way. In fact you're one of the people throwing around stereo-types.

I'm extremely critical of Danish immigration policy, as the many fights I've had with Ingemann over the years on here can attest to. But the image you try to paint is clearly hyperbole, and you should obviously be called out on that.   

And if you want to worry that Sweden will adopt the same migration policy as Denmark because of the fact that a single party slightly changes their migration policy in a stricter direction, and that Sweden is forced to adopt similar refugee rules to the rest of Europe to ease the pressure of having the highest level of immigration per capita in the Western world, that is your full right. But it's not really a very thoughtful or intelligent analysis. Not that I've ever expected either from you.
82  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 03, 2015, 09:07:34 pm
I swear to God, if you guys keep derailing this thread any longer by turning it into yet another thread where people name call others for being racist or what ever I will pull a Politicus and delete it. The thread is here for people to have sensible discussions about Swedish news and politics, not whether you think Denmark is the worst thing on this planet. Which is a ridiculous discussion that has no place here.

 
83  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: If you could introduce a Constitutional Amendment What would it be on: November 03, 2015, 02:46:25 pm
This thread is filled with so much stupid proposals it hurts my brain. Thank God non of you guys were founding fathers.

My amendment would probably be for Atlas members not being allowed to propose constitutional amendments. 
84  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Age for Voting? on: October 29, 2015, 03:03:50 am
Why would anyone sane let 16-year-olds vote. 16 is the age when people in general are at their most stupid. I'd rather let 12-year-olds vote than give the vote to someone who is 16. Most responses here seem to be based on people being butthurt because they missed an election because they weren't yet  18 when it happened. But if the limit were 16, you'd get a bunch of butt hurt people who hadn't yet turned 16 for this or that election.

Also, why do we trust people to drive tons of steel with so many parts, but not to vote?

The allowed driving age in the US should also be raised to 18, as its is the legal age to get a driving license in most countries of the world. The fact that one rule is stupid doesn't mean its a good idea to make another rule equally stupid.
85  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Have you ever been prevented from voting? on: October 26, 2015, 07:33:59 pm
No of course not, I live in a civilized country.
86  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 23, 2015, 05:41:56 am
It should also be noted that one of the key provisions in the agreement is that the requirements for family reunification will be toughened. The family members in Sweden will have to guarantee that they can provide financially for their family members in order for them to be allowed to immigrate.

Several cuts to benefits that immigrants are able to get will also be done.

These are in reality of course much more restricting measures than the much more publicly controversial temporary vs. permanent residence permits.

The idea behind these changes to policy is to move closer to the immigration policies of other European countries. 
87  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Is Stephen Harper the worst PM in Canadian history? on: October 21, 2015, 07:40:29 am
Aside from being a conservative, what was actually particularly bad about his stint in office? Canada seems to be doing relatively well economically.

He won three straight elections.

There is nothing worse about a right-winger than being able to beat left-wingers.
88  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 19, 2015, 06:38:15 am
M are currently losing voters to both SD and Centre, I would assume they would only turn right if the loss to SD and KD became bigger than the loss to Centre.

Do you think Batra has actual liberal principles regarding this issue? Or would she drift right if the loss of votes were big enough.

The Moderates loss to SD, is already bigger than their loss to us. Besides, SD saying that KD's immigration policy getting closer to them really isn't going to dissuade the Conservative Moderate faction from defecting to KD, if that is what they want to do.

Kinberg-Batra has always been seen as belonging to the liberal pro-immigration faction of the party. She is forced to move towards tougher immigration however or she'd face a rebellion from local politicians who are stretched thin trying to cover costs for asylum seekers on the municipal with-out raising taxes, and who are on principal much more conservative and nationalist. There is a important difference to Busch-Thor though, as she has always been on the conservative faction of her party, which is why KD is doing this shift faster and more noticeably than M.

Jan Björklund has previously advocated tighter immigration policies, could Fp go right? Or are they too internally divided?

They are incredibly internally divided. Björklund wants to go in the same direction as M and KD... but his leadership position is incredibly weak and he doesn't have the clout to sway his party without risking his own leadership position or civil war in the party. Some influential members would rather leave the party than step in that direction and would prefer the Greens migration policies.
89  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Replace God Save the Queen? on: October 19, 2015, 06:07:04 am
Rule Britannia should obviously be the all UK anthem. Jerusalem should be the English anthem.
90  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 19, 2015, 04:14:05 am
I mean, I really doubt the current KD supporters are bothered about their immigration policy being too strict so...
91  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 19, 2015, 04:12:43 am
SD claims KD is getting closer to their views, which Thor obviously denies. Seems a bit shortsighted of Åkesson to undermine KD like that. A stronger KD would be a strategic advantage for SD - pressuring M towards the right.

Is it undermining them though? By saying KD is getting closer to their views they do paint KD as the most attractive second choice for SD-voters and an acceptable alternative. SD obviously want a centre-right minority government dependent on them, and painting KD as an attractive alternative to their supporters would actually probably benefit them. 
92  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 18, 2015, 09:17:04 am
Of these, 21.5% have a foreign background, which means that Swedes with two Swedish-born parents makes up 7.7 million.

I think it's important to point out that the current 21,5% with foreign background also includes me, since my mother is Danish, and the rather large group of everyone else in Sweden with one Swedish-born parent, and a Nordic or otherwise western parent, and I hardly think we count as foreign even by the the most rigid Swedish Democratic viewpoint. Tongue

All these sorts of estimations always rely on ceteris paribus, which rarely come true. The current level of immigration will not continue for 10 or 15 years. The idea that the Swedish population could double in a mere decade is of course absurd.
93  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 15, 2015, 06:39:45 pm
Wonder if Swedish left wingers will also finance a counter campaign?

Good God, that idea hadn't even crossed my mind! :S Why do loony right-wingers and left-wingers get to spend my tax money?!

Since when is it your tax money??

Public party aid.

By that logic pretty much everything can be considered Swedish Austerity Cheese's tax money.

Actually, yes. It can. I pay taxes, thus it's my tax money. Despite what some Social Democrats in this country think, tax revenue doesn't grow on trees. The money doesn't belong to the state, the money belongs to the tax payers, which includes me and presumably you. The state is just allowed to distribute it on our behalf to benefit our society and advance our common interests.

Now I believe in the idea of my money being used to create a better society, but when lefty and populist politicians use it as their own personal play jar I do feel like going full on Libertarian.

94  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 15, 2015, 02:59:10 pm
Wonder if Swedish left wingers will also finance a counter campaign?

Good God, that idea hadn't even crossed my mind! :S Why do loony right-wingers and left-wingers get to spend my tax money?!
95  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: October 15, 2015, 09:45:42 am
SD voted for the Moderates budget proposal.

Will vote. The budget proposals are still in committee and the final debate and vote will not take place until November.

In other news, SD has today announced that they will finance an ad campaign to discourage asylum seekers to go to Sweden, similar to the Danish campaign earlier this year.
96  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: If you were to live in another country for 5 years... on: October 14, 2015, 08:56:03 am
1. Finland
2. Denmark
3. United Kingdom
4. New Zealand
5. Germany

Why Finland over Norway?

It's really the Swedish speaking minority that does it for me. I have a large number of Finland-Swedish friends. I have dated a guy from Österbotten. If I lived in Österbotten or Åland I wouldn't even have to adopt any Finnish to get around. So personal ties and connections.

It's not that I don't like Norway or think that I wouldn't enjoy living there, I just feel closer to Finland and Denmark.
97  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Great Nordic Thread on: October 14, 2015, 07:58:10 am
But honestly while we may like to see the party structure of DPP as a sign inborn authorianism in the party, I think it's reaching. Instead it exist for both historical and practical reasons. DPP was founded after a chaotic annual congress for the Progress Party worse than anything I remember in my lifetime. Pia Kjærsgaard who was leader of the Progress Party and her fraction of the party decided to leave the party, the other parliamental fraction left the party some years later, but didn't set up a new party. It tell you something how bad the Progress Party were, when the two warring MP fractions both leave the party. DPP leadership never wanted to see the same thing again, so they set up the party structure to avoid the old Progress Party members entering the party and creating the same chaos in DPP.

But there's also another group DPP want to avoid, when you're right wing anti-immigration party, you really want to avoid the Nazis and want to be able to throw them out again, if they enter anyway.

Interesting, I didn't know that about DPP's history.

I obviously understand why the leadership of both SD and DPP feel they need to control their organisations rigidly. I have no idea how DPP handles that power,  so I will assume they do so responsibly.

In SD however, though keeping nazis and crazys out is the official motivation, it does feel like they abuse their power over the party to punish people who don't kiss the leadership's behind, rather than as a tool to keep the crazies out. 
98  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Great Nordic Thread on: October 14, 2015, 07:51:50 am
It's not my impression that SD is as top-down as DPP... yet.

Yes, I'd say so as well. Not that the SD leadership doesn't want to have the same power over the party as the DPP does, but the current SD leadership didn't get to create the original rule book in difference to the DPP leadership. They're instead left trying to reform the old rules, but that still has to be done with the consent of  their party congress. Of course they've come very far at solidifying power when they can cut off their entire youth wing with-out asking their congress for permission.

I never understood the inherent merit of parties being internally democratic.

I personally wouldn't want to be part of a party that wasn't internally democratic. If I cannot effect party policy why bother being a member. Nor would I entrust my vote or give my support to people who cannot even take debate and discussion with people who have close opinions to their own. If an organisation can't foster good attitude towards democracy with-in themselves, how can I trust them to do so in society.

But as for parties I'm not a member or supporter of, I support their right to organize as they see fit. Just don't expect me to approve of your organisation. ^^
99  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: If you were to live in another country for 5 years... on: October 14, 2015, 06:52:20 am
1. Finland¨
2. Denmark
3. United Kingdom
4. New Zealand
5. Germany
100  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Great Nordic Thread on: October 14, 2015, 06:39:38 am
Yeah, breaking with over 100 years of cross-national Nordic association law and established precedence to disadvantage a single organisation doesn't seem like a well-thought out idea.

Though the authoritarian, Soviet-like party structures of DPP in Denmark or SD in Sweden are rather frightening and says a whole lot about those parties, policy and legislation shouldn't be created around a single organisation.

In all of the Nordic countries (as far as I'm aware off) parties count as regular non-profit organisations, and non-profit organisations are in the Nordic countries free to organize any way they please. You'd either have to make parties a whole different group of organisations, or impose the same governing structure on all non-profit organisation, which would be greatly problematic in relation to churches with distinct leadership organisation, orders, and so on.

Besides, do we even want these parties to allow crazy grass-rots take over their party. I'm not sure how that would actually be beneficial to anyone.
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