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76  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Policy on childboards on: September 29, 2015, 01:04:42 pm
I'm not sure where to ask this, but can we have some guidelines on how, if pictures take up more space on your timeline posts than your text does, there's a way of policing or penalizing that? There's something going on in the contemporary what-if? world that's very disturbing.

Can you link me to any specific examples?

I don't want to police content too much here outside of the more grotesque counterfactuals (e.g. assassinations) but if this is something that's eating up our bandwidth then I'll have to step in.

It's subjective. Who's to judge? Me. Smiley
77  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: September 23, 2015, 10:18:25 pm
Areus hacks for his bill: 1988

The Return to Normalcy Act was the most ambitious agenda item of Areus' presidency thus far. The former Speaker of the House had been meticulous in threading the needles to secure his speakership and the Republican nomination for President; he certainly wasn't going to fumble his biggest policy initiative.

"Thad, you're still on board with being the Senate sponsor for this proposal, right?" asked Areus. "Of course. I consider it a great honor to carry this torch and make the case before my peers, much like with the filibuster," said Thad. "Good. Glad to see we're on the same page. Obviously, this is going to be an issue that is going to be debated for a long time in the Senate," said Areus.

Thad nodded in acknowledgement. "Which is why I'm going to open this up with a speech to try and set the narrative. While your peers may water this down in the Senate, I figure rolling out with a speech will give this bill good momentum in the public relations department," said Areus. "By the way, do you think you could bring Cynthia along?" he asked.

"What makes you ask that?" inquired Thad. "Well, it'd be nice to have a female Republican around while we were selling our point. Plus she doesn't look so bad in stockings. You'd better wife her up quickly, Thad…" said Areus. "Or else?" asked Thad defensively. "Nothing. Just a joke," said Areus. Several days later, Thad found himself dressing up for a flight to Los Angeles. While he was unable to secure Cynthia's presence, he made sure his own schedule was clear.

The ride was relatively free of turbulence. Thad had sedated himself with champagne during the commute, and was in Los Angeles before he knew it. He rode with Areus Ho'kee to his campaign rally and took his side, hands folded in his lap, as the former took the stage.

"Thank you all for joining me this evening. I'm speaking about a matter of grave importance: our presence in the world in the late 20th century. In our last two scuffles, we've had two losses. Some would argue that we ought to invest more in our presence abroad. However, I would argue that this is a sign we've bitten too much off to chew. Consider the two cases:

In the 1960's, one of our ships supposedly gets sunk in the Gulf of Tonkin incident. We respond by invading a third-world nation that ostensibly was outmatched, and we dropped more ordinance on them than we did on any country in World War Two. Despite this fact, the Vietnamese had the better of us. Why? Because of support from the Chinese and Soviets, a lack of support on our behalf, and overextension.

A similar case: in the late 1970's some of our ambassadors to Iran were executed. We invaded that nation and were on track to avenge our losses. We managed to dismantle their capital city and establish control of their principal oil cites. Despite such dominance, insurrectionist groups managed to sabotage our operations, turned Tehran into a warzone, and sought to destroy many oil drilling sites rather than simply reclaim them.

By no means am I celebrating our overseas defeats, although I will note that they serve as a cautionary tale. The post-war consensus of fighting the Soviets by proxy and using third-world countries as pliable pawns has largely proven to be a bust for the United States.  Thus, I'm proposing something radically different: a return to normalcy.

Long score ago, President James Monroe proposed his namesake doctrine - the idea that the United States reserved the right to recognize intervention in any Western Hemisphere country by an Eastern Hemisphere country as a direct act of aggression towards the United States. Since this proclamation by President Monroe, we've hypocritically transgressed by intervening in the Middle East and Indo-China and it has been our undoing.

As ambitious of a proposal as it may be, I am advocating for change: a return to this protocol. Yes, this entails withdrawal from Europe, Korea, and Japan, as well as the anticipated withdrawal from Iran. I understand that some of you are concerned that our departure from Germany and Japan would make those countries open season for the Soviets, but that is not the case. Such a proposal would be coupled with a gradual withdrawal, as well as lifting prohibitions on standing armies and allowing said countries to pursue nuclear technology.

The reality is that the allegiances of the 1940's have been cast off. Once upon a time, Germany, Japan, and Korea were bitter enemies of ours who inflicted grave casualties upon the United States. However, these days, all three of these countries have been valuable trading partners. It has long since been time that we beat our swords into plowshares, embrace these countries, and allow them to have their own militaries, which would relieve stress off of us.

I'm aware of the obvious dangers that such a proposal entails: what if the Soviets flood Europe with soldiers? What if European soldiers can't cut the mustard against the Russians? To which I respond: withdrawal from Europe would be a gradual process, which would pay long term dividends. France, Germany, and England would have to spend more of their resources toward training a military.

If fulfilled, a strategic defense initiative would be far superior to protecting Europe than a standing army, and more logistically practical. Missiles do not need to be fed, and cost less. While two hundred thousand soldiers in France might be a fine deterrent against a Soviet invasion, the prospect of Soviet nuclear missiles being intercepted might be even more imposing, no?

With all of that being said, I ask that you register your support for this proposal that would dial down the Cold War."
78  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: Constitutional Convention Delegate Election on: September 22, 2015, 12:17:57 pm
[1] oakvale
[2] bore
[3] Cincinnatus
[4] evergreen
79  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update for Everyone III - The Whinge Binge on: September 18, 2015, 04:20:05 pm
Ugh...

So I got drunk this evening, unexpectedly (with only 2 goddamn cups of wine!!!). But the party ended at like 7PM and all my friends left. So now I'm drunk and alone.

Life suxxxx

Have you considered hanging with these guys?

Seems like a good fit.
80  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: New Register Thread on: September 18, 2015, 04:11:05 pm
dallasfan65
Massachusetts
Northeast National Party
81  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Please ban "Zen Lunatic". on: September 16, 2015, 07:45:40 am
Generally I don't sign petitions. But this is different.

X- My mark.
82  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Atlas Timeline Index on: September 15, 2015, 08:57:41 am
Thanks for taking up the mantle, Dar, my desire to continue archiving timelines dissipated when I ran into just how many... shall we say ones not worth preserving there were. I'm glad someone was willing to fill my shoes. Smiley I recommend that you reserve many more posts for archives, as this stuff can go back to the mid-2000's.

Is there any way I can increase my word limit for the archives post to >11,000? Contact Dave?

No. But I think I can move posts up or down via mod wizardry.
83  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Candidate Declaration Thread on: September 13, 2015, 05:52:52 pm
I'm running for Vice President on SWE's ticket.
84  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Policy on childboards on: September 13, 2015, 10:21:10 am
OK, speaking up as moderator here.

I'd like to think that it's a given that the rules of the TOS apply here (no graphic images or spam) as well as a code of civility. My own posts tend to have a little vinegar in them when I'm trying to get a point across so I tend to be laissez-faire unless something is really over the line.

Getting that out of the way, here's how I run this show:

Past Election What-Ifs?: Questions about former elections and possible counterfactuals go here. (Ex: John F. Kennedy in 1964?) Posts made in the main board about such possibilities will be moved here.

Alternative Elections: Discussion about possible future elections will go here. (Ex: Carson in 2016?) Posts made in the main board about such possibilities will be moved here. (ibid)

International What-ifs: "Discussion of alternate possibilities in international elections." As it says on the tin.

As long as we conduct ourselves in this manner, this will leave the main board free for timelines and interactive games. Smiley

EDIT: Absurd match-ups: For awhile there was the pervasive problem of some posters making impossible match-ups (Ex: Superman vs Batman.) These will be treated as spam and deleted unless it prompts an intelligent discussion.
85  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Atlas Timeline Index on: September 13, 2015, 10:10:37 am
Thanks darthebear.

I think I'm going to keep Cathcon's stickied because there were a lot of TL's on that one that people might want easier access to, and we don't seem to have a problem with cluttered stickies.
86  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: September 10, 2015, 07:24:58 pm
While I've been following the more recent updates to this more or less regularly, my holidays allowed me to finally read this from the start. I must say, you truly are the king of Atlas timelines. This timeline is by far the best thing ever written in this subforum.

Thanks man, that means a lot to me. I've been doing this for quite some time and my writing style has changed since I started this (hopefully for the better.) It's encouraging for someone to give it a full-read and not say "this sucked at first" or something. I appreciate it. Smiley

Quote
Kudos for keeping this up for so long, I just hope you will not finish this in a long time!

At my current trajectory, I probably won't finish it any time soon haha. Favorite character?
87  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: September 09, 2015, 11:52:46 pm
Dude, this is awesome. Love how Ho'kee's fiddling around with wonky, Reagan-era defense projects. Will some of the subjects raised by "Project Socrates" also be discussed? There's a semi-interesting, if very short, Wikipedia article on the topic.

And last page you were saying RIP America! Tongue

There will definitely be some out-of-the-box ideas pursued by Ho'kee. Anything out of Project Socrates is probably unlikely though, based on what I've read, as free-trade and technology have been a bread-and-butter facet of Ho'kee's rhetoric.
88  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Which state do you live in? on: September 07, 2015, 10:17:08 pm
gah if only we had pictures next to our posts of where we lived

But there's no way to figure out how many people are from each state unless a poll is done.

Technically speaking, there is.

You may argue, "Yeah but a lot of those people may no longer be active!" or "Who would go through the effort of checking that whole list?"

To which I would argue: Most people who are active enough to vote in this poll are probably prolific enough where most people are aware of their presence/where they lived - which means we already (or should at least) have a cursory idea of where most posters live. And if they aren't, then who cares? What does this all mean? Is it actual content creation, or just content aggregation ala Buzzfeed?
89  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Which state do you live in? on: September 07, 2015, 04:24:46 pm
gah if only we had pictures next to our posts of where we lived
90  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Suspension lifted for Brady on: September 03, 2015, 07:53:34 pm
You guys should try living less than an hour from Gillette. It's worse by orders of magnitude.
91  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: September 03, 2015, 12:01:03 am
Hangover: 1988

Although Areus Ho'kee had captured the rights to the White House, most of his political meetings were still conducted in his estate a few miles away. After clearing some Secret Service pat-downs, Thad O'Connor made his way toward Areus' basement. It was as full as it had been in months. There were some familiar figures, such as Ericson Snell, James Garner, Santiago St. Avila, and Lawrence Coventry. "Good to see you, Thad!" yelled Lawrence.

Thad quickly made his way toward Lawrence Coventry, giving him a big hug. "Congratulations on attaining the position of Senate Majority leader," said Thad. "Congratulations on winning reelection!" said Lawrence in response. "Considering our tenuous position and all of the setbacks we endured, it's still hard to believe that we wound up holding the Presidency, Senate, and Speakership," said Thad.

Thad felt a finger pinch his collar and a nail ruffle his chest. "Yeah. In the end, the best man wins, right?" a sensuous voice whispered in his ear. Alarmed, Thad looked to his back left, only to see a buxom blue-eyed blonde over his shoulder. It was Alice Luce, who he hadn't seen in months. Although Thad was emotionally committed to Cynthia Lancaster, he felt some of his old longing toward Alice while in her embrace.

After some hesitation, Thad shook her off. "How have you been, Alice?" he asked. "Quite well Thad, don't you know? I've been Governor for about two years." Thad could feel her nails still raking his shoulders as she spoke, and struggled to extricate himself from the situation. "Are you still seeing Scott?" he asked. "No. Scott's a prick," she responded. Before further inquiry could be made, Thad heard his summons from across the room.

"Thad! Get your ass over here!" said Areus. Thad rushed to meet the party of Areus Ho'kee, Ericson Snell, and Santiago St. Avila. "So what's going on?" asked Thad. "Well, we've been brainstorming on what we should tackle as the first initiative of our administration," said Areus. Ericson interjected, saying, "That’s not quite the issue at hand. The issue at hand is the fact that you've been President for two-hundred days and have yet to embark on a legislative achievement," said Ericson Snell.

"Sure, there's some truth to that. I think a big part of the problem is that I've just been having too much fun," said Areus. "Yes, but it's a big middle finger to those that invested themselves in your political victory and the issues that you claimed to advocate for," said Snell. "You're right, Eric, which is why I've gotten you all here," said Areus. "Executive orders and appointments aside, I haven't done much so far. That's all going to change, with the Return to Normalcy Act," he declared.

"What is the Return to Normalcy Act?" asked Thad. "Our military spends too much money. We've been investing in bases in just about every Cold War hot spot, whether it be Britain, France, West Germany, Japan, or Berlin. Those countries are certainly wealthy enough to defend themselves, and our large military presence in those countries is a strain on our budget." said Ho'kee.

Ericson Snell was perplexed. "Completely withdrawing from Europe? This sounds like a Democratic attack ad," he said. "How do you figure? Consider how West Germany has benefited from trade with the United States. There is no reason why France and the United Kingdom shouldn't be responsible for their own defense. In the event that those countries are invaded, we should support them, but I don't think military presence should be the default."

"Whatever. Even disregarding all of that, there's still the matter of protecting Japan. Days before Japan surrendered, the Soviets nabbed a few islands. If we're going to ensure that the Soviets don't gain a foothold in Japan, how do we withdraw our troops?" asked Snell. Ho'kee looked down at him with disdain. "Simple: we renegotiate our the previous dealings with Japan and allow for them to have their own military," he said.

"That sounds practical, but what if the armies of France and Germany aren't enough to resist an attempt to drape the Iron Curtain over western Europe? How do we guard against the Soviets?" asked Snell. "It's funny you ask, Eric. Despite the public perception that we're surrendering Europe to the Russians, I think that an ambitious missile defense program could work in our favor. What would be a better way of neutralizing Russia's nuclear threat than a missile defense system that could shut down Russia's nukes?" said Ho'kee.

Eric remained silent. "For most of our lifetimes, the biggest factor preventing a bloodbath in Central Europe was the threat of mutually assured destruction. If we can develop the technology to nullify Soviet nuclear strikes, then we would have the edge over the Russians. The USSR's million man army would fold like paper soldiers against the threat of nuclear destruction with no rebuttal," said Ho'kee.

Snell was breathless for a moment. "Are you sure all of this would work?" he asked. "During my tenure, the science seems to support this missile defense program having a strong chance of neutering Soviet strikes," said Ho'kee. "Fair enough. Still, as burned as Americans are feeling over the Iran War, how confident are you setting this up as your opening initiative?" Snell asked.

"I wouldn't trust just any Senator to advocate this legislation. We made big gains in the Senate, but there's only one person that I think has the skills to argue for this. He just won reelection, he's articulate, and he proved crucial in the Iran filibuster in 1986. I'm talking about Thad O'Connor," said Areus, who grabbed Thad's shoulder and stared into his eyes. "One person who's proven himself eloquent on a few issues in the Senate, and just dispatched a popular Governor in his bid to earn his first real mandate. This bill is your opportunity to shine," said Areus, as he brushed his fingers through Thad's bangs.

Thad's heart raced, as this was the most physical Areus had gotten with him. "Do you think you could do it, Thad?" asked Eric. "Such legislation would be a watershed moment in American history. For the first time since the Thirties, we would be considering withdrawing from the world and restoring our military budget to a more sane one. Of course I will assent to sponsoring this," said Thad.
92  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Determining regulations of Constitutional Convention. (Debating) on: September 01, 2015, 03:46:47 pm
Please get out Blair, you aren't a citizen anymore of Atlasia

Are you trying to say he should NeverAgain comment here?
93  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 18, 2015, 09:00:59 pm
TIME - Ho'kee at the helm
April 30th, 1989

President Ho'kee's cabinet:
Vice President: Lee Dreyfus (R-WI)
Chief of Staff: Colin V. Goates (R-NY)
Secretary of State: Lawrence Eagleburger (R-WI)
Secretary of Defense: Eugene McCarthy (D-MN)
Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare: Stewart McKinney (R-CT)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: Shepherd Slater (R-MA)
Secretary of Interior: Frederic Reid (R-IA)
Secretary of Commerce: Barber Conable (R-NY)
Secretary of Treasury: Milton Friedman (R-CA)
Secretary of Agriculture: George S. Mickelson (R-SD)
Secretary of Labor: Paul Tsongas (D-MA)
Secretary of Transportation: Don Aitken (R-NH)
Postmaster General: Richard Knauss (I-NV)
Attorney General: Howard Baker (R-TN)
UN Ambassador: John McClaughry (R-VT)


100 days in review
Areus Ho'kee was campaigning against a beleaguered President, and offered big promises: he would drain the swamp of political corruption in Washington, end the United States' long term engagements world wide, and fix the economy. While those are big promises and hard to act on, President Ho'kee has not shown much initiative in his first one-hundred days in office.

The budget and pork barrel spending was one of Ho'kee's chief talking points during the campaign. However, Ho'kee is working off of a budget freshly signed by the exiting Bentsen, so it's difficult to fault him for the excesses of the departing Bentsen's budget. President Ho'kee has promised an unprecedented line-item veto on potential waste of the next budget.

Despite the fact that he ran as the #1 anti-war candidate last year, Ho'kee has been uncharacteristically sluggish in withdrawing the United States' military from select countries. Some of his critics, like Patton Wyde, attributed this to "getting in the chair and seeing what it actually means," while Richard McPherson suggested that "Ho'kee was wearing a white flag as a lapel." Ho'kee's front office had little to say but mentioned they would have a response in weeks to come.

Lastly, Ho'kee has taken heat on the environmental front. Over two dozen nuclear power plants exist in the West that could be killed by the President's pen. The law allowing drilling in the Gulf coast lays at mercy of the President's penmanship. Ho'kee campaigned as critical of both, but has done nothing to take action since assuming the office.

"When running for President, I was critical of both industries, because I was worried about the environmental threats that they might pose. So far, the Gulf coast drilling operations have achieved the standard expected by the EPA, and the nuclear power plants have had no incidents.

I consider myself to be an environmentalist, but I think part of that activist package means that we need to be proactive and adventurous in exploring alternative energy and drilling methods. The American-made car continues to be a staple not only of our way of life, but also of our domestic industry. It's in both of our interests that these cars have good fuel economies."

There was some action on Ho'kee's part directly from the executive desk. As is custom with new Presidents, Ho'kee immediately rescinded most of Bentsen's executive orders. He also issued a statement that the Attorney General would be continuing the investigation of state Democratic Party affiliates, and reassured the press that he would be coming out with a policy initiative with regards to the Iran War.

Despite Ho'kee's lax approach to governance, he has maintained a positive approval rating. Perhaps some of this is relief for not being subjected to the drama and controversies of the Bentsen administration. Ho'kee has yet to champion legislative initiatives, but his departments have made some moves, such as the Treasury's decision to raise interest rates and tighten monetary printing.

Presidential Approval Ratings
April 25th, 1989

94  Forum Community / Mock Parliment / Re: 1st South American General Election - August 14th, 2015 on: August 15, 2015, 10:52:39 am
Social Liberals
95  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 12, 2015, 11:10:58 pm
Glory: 1988

Thad O'Connor sat in a busy lobby at Areus Ho'kee's estate the night of the election. Although there was some speculation that vote splitting would lead to a dead-lock, or worse, a Bentsen victory, this was the busiest night that Thad had ever seen at Areus' haunt. After a few hours of results coming in, the party erupted in glee as Ohio reported in favor of Ho'kee by a slim margin. This development was tantamount to a dagger to Bentsen's bid, and signaled Ho'kee's win. He stood up on a stool to issue a proclamation, saying,

"Eight years ago, a landslide was had. The Republicans, plagued with scandal after scandal, economic malaise, and inept foreign policy, were swept out of office as Scoop Jackson won nearly five hundred electoral votes in a massive landslide. In addition, the Democrats won supermajorities in both chambers of Congress. Tainted by the scandal of Watergate and legislative impotence, Republicans were in their worst position since the Depression.

Jackson had the say-so of Democratic leadership in Congress and expendable majorities to boot. He wasted no time in pumping the prime of corporate donors with the no-bid boondoggle that was the Fortify America Act, promising to put Americans to work and build more munitions. Shortly after that, our hostages were murdered and Jackson used that as an excuse to invade another country.

Jackson had formed an electoral coalition that was a grotesque coupling of traditional Democrats, nationalists, and evangelists. He turned that marriage into an electoral juggernaut, and reaffirmed it in the election of 1984: despite an uninspiring economy and ethics clouds, he defeated the intrepid Mark Hatfield. With the Republican Party divided amongst its various parishes, the die seemed to be cast: Jackson was to set the political consensus and tempo, and we were but drummers to his beat.

All of that changed with Thad O'Connor's filibuster. For the first time, the Senators opposed to warfare dug its heels in and made its influence felt. Thad O'Connor put on a magnificent display of physical stamina and rhetorical fortitude in his filibuster, compelling President Jackson to take the trail in opposing rallies, where he was eventually murdered. In the aftermath, efforts to continue down the warpath met a pause.

Vice President Lloyd Bentsen was inaugurated and was greeted with a strong approval rating, despite the swamp that President Jackson had left in his memory. While Jackson was ideologically committed to a strong fight against the Iranians, Bentsen had realpolitik in mind. This freed up the Democratic leadership in Congress, but they would bend rather than break: a 'deal' was formed that essentially maintained the status quo.

Many of us in this room reached the conclusion that things would not change within the current administration. The only solution would be to take the Maverick cause to the national stage and run for President. Our first set of opponents was in the Republican Primary. We met dithering moderates, headstrong extremists, and wonky peculiarists alike. Nonetheless, each problem was taken care of: Alan Simpson's activism was a staple of our campaign. Lowell Weicker's cohort has been absorbed. The rest of traditional Republicans have come to terms with my candidacy, while Armstrong's true believers have ended up as barnacles on Griffith's wasteland.

Each card fell into place, and we managed to trot our way towards the nomination after a lengthy war of attrition. Bentsen had a dubious hold on his own party's nomination, and between his own personal unpopularity and divisions in the Democratic Party, the incumbent was trailing us by a substantial amount. It looked as if the Mavericks' deft political calculation had outsmarted Jackson's Democratic Party and established itself as an unlikely tastemaker for the Republican Party.

This would be too easy. Shortly after I received the Republican nomination, Armstrong's cohort decided to take their ball and go home, quickly flocking to Laxalt once he won the Working Man's Party's nomination. Having already established some constituency for himself with his last presidential run, he threw things into disarray, and an unpopular Bentsen was set to win in a walk. The gambit had been set: the Mavericks' agenda was simply too divisive, and neoconservatives like Griffith were better equipped to set the tempo of the Republican Party.

We all knew better than that though. In the presidential debate, I held Bentsen's feet to the fire and exposed Laxalt's candidacy for the fraud it was. Bentsen's farce of a Middle Eastern campaign crumbled under the pressure of ragtag rebels late in the campaign season. Though let's not forget, you all were instrumental in bringing this to fruition; whether it be Thad's subterfuge, Snell's investigation, or Coventry's organizational skills.

Thad, you were perhaps the cornerstone to all of this. Your filibuster brought this issue to the fore, and not only endangered Northern Democrats, but also drove a wedge into the Democratic Caucus. It was only the buoy of sympathy that saved Democrats from a losing game of Chicken on the issue. Also, archiving a third-party convention that turned into a riot is pretty impressive.

Lawrence, your work here can't be ignored. Your eye for detail and spotting talent has helped us overtake most of the state Republican Parties in the past two years and also recruited additional Mavericks to Congress. You serve as my main liaison to the Senate, as well as the glue that holds our clique together and the wheel that rights my temperament.

Eric, I would like to say that yours is a story of sacrifice and selflessness. You have worked for hours on end to expose the past Democratic administration in campaign graft. Your good nature allowed you to quickly rise up in the ranks to Minority Leader, but when Republicans retook the House, you were gracious enough to let me take the Speakership. I promise I'll make good on the debts you've afforded me, my friend.

While I'm the individual victor in this struggle, the reality is that all of you have played an ancillary role in making this possible. This triumph is ours. Against all odds, we have defeated Jackson's juggernaut, and it lies dead by my hand." At this point Areus stood on the table and gestured his arm toward the television, which showed the election results. "Behold it in all its morbid splendor."
96  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 12, 2015, 10:55:07 pm
Alabama:
Jefferson Dent (R)
Howell Heflin (D)

Alaska:
Ted Stevens (R)
Clark Gruening (D)

Arizona:
Bob Stump (D)
Jim Kolbe (R)

Arkansas:
David Pryor (D)
Dale Bumpers (D)


California:
Pete McCloskey (R)
Ed Zschau (R)


Colorado:
Gary Hart (D)
Bill Armstrong (R)

Connecticut:
Lowell Weicker (R)
Christopher Shays (R
)

Delaware:
Joe Biden (D)
William Roth (R)

Florida:
Lawton Chiles (D)
Richard McPherson (D)


Georgia:
Sam Nunn (D)
John D. Russell (D)

Hawaii:
Daniel Inouye (D)
Spark Matsunaga (D)


Idaho:
Orval Smylie (R)
George Hansen (WMP)

Illinois:
Alex Seith (D)
Jim Edgar (R)

Indiana:
Richard Lugar (R)
Floyd Fithian (D)

Iowa:
Frederic Reid (R)
Jim Leach (R)


Kansas:
Bob Dole (R)
Joan Finney (D)

Kentucky:
Walter Huddleston (D)
Wendell Ford (D)

Louisiana:
Bennett Johnston Jr. (D)
Mike Foster (D)
*

Maine:
Thad O'Connor (R)
Ralph Stevenson (R)


Maryland:
Clarence Long (D)
Wayne Gilchrest (R)

Massachusetts:
Ted Kennedy (D)
Bill Weld (R)

Michigan:
Mic Ceriel (R)
William Milliken (R)


Minnesota:
Walter Mondale (D)
David Durenburger (R)

Mississippi:
Gillespie Montgomery (D)
Patton Wyde (D)


Missouri:
Thomas Eagleton (D)
John Danforth (R)

Montana:
Scott Westman (D)*
Helen Brisco (R)

Nebraska:
James Exon (D)
Charles Thone (R)

Nevada:
Paul Laxalt (R)
Chic Hect (R)


New Hampshire:
Malcolm McLane (R)
Maurice Murphy (R)


New Jersey:
Thomas Kean (R)
Millicent Fenwick (R)


New Mexico:
Bruce King (D)
David F. Cargo (R)

New York:
Hamilton Fish IV (R)
Al Green (R)

North Carolina:
Robert Burren Morgan (D)
John Ingram (D)


North Dakota:
Mark Andrews (R)
Warren F. Ford (R)


Ohio:
John Glenn (D)
James Traficant (D)

Oklahoma:
David Boren (D)
Wes Watkins (D)

Oregon:
Victor Atiyeh (R)
Mark Hatfield (R
)

Pennsylvania:
John Heinz (R)
John Murtha (D)

Rhode Island:
Claiborne Pell (D)
John Chafee (R)

South Carolina:
Strom Thurmond (R)
Ernest Hollings (D)

South Dakota:
George McGovern (D)*
Larry Pressler (R)

Tennessee:
Marilyn Lloyd (D)
Jim Sasser (D)


Texas:
James "Fergie" Garner (R)
Bill Archer (WMP)

Utah:
Jake Garn (R)
Orrin Hatch (R)


Vermont:
Lawrence I. Coventry (R)
Margaret P. Garland (R)


Virginia:
Andrew Miller (D)
Marshall Coleman (R)

Washington:
Santiago St. Avila (R)
Jasper Morrill (R)


West Virginia:
Jennings Randolph (D)
Robert Byrd (D)

Wisconsin:
Steve Gunderson (R)
Herb Kohl (R)

Wyoming:
Malcolm Wallop (R)
Alan Simpson (R)



Senate Composition:

R: 55 D: 42 WMP: 3

President Pro Tempore: Mark Hatfield (R-OR)
Majority Leader: Lawrence Coventry (R-VT)
Majority Whip: Alan Simpson (R-WY)

Minority Leader: Robert Byrd (D-WV)
Minority Whip: Richard McPherson (D-FL)

House Composition:

R: 226 D: 198 WMP: 11

Speaker of the House: Ericson Snell (R-NY)
Majority Leader: Spencer Adams (R-OR)
Majority Whip: Joel McFee Pritchard (R-WA)

Minority Leader: Charles Wilson (D-TX)
Minority Whip: Dick Gephardt (D-MO)

* = Caucusing with the Republicans.
* = Caucusing with the Working Man's Party.
97  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 12, 2015, 10:38:34 pm
1986 Elections

Arizona

Jim Kolbe (R), 44.67% - Dennis Deconcini (D), 38.43% - Wayne "Ten Hawks" Smith (WMP), 16.90% (R-Pick up)

California

Pete McCloskey (R), 50.37% - Alister McAlister (D), 39.47% - Tom Metzger (WMP), 7.25% - Jacklyn Graves (P&F), 2.91% (R-Hold)

Connecticut

Lowell Weicker (R), 61.27% - Henry Parker (D), 37.11% - Clarence Douglas (GWP), 1.62% (R-Hold)

Delaware

William Roth (R), 60.83% - Gary Hindes (D), 39.17% (R-Hold)

Florida

Lawton Chiles (D), 50.41% - Frank T. Brogan (R), 40.62% - Andy Martin (WMP), 8.97% (D-Hold)

Hawaii

Spark Matsunaga (D), 65.37% - Ike Carmichael (R), 34.63% (D-Hold)

Indiana

Richard Lugar (R), 49.35% - Bob Bischoff (D), 42.78% - Stan Musial (WMP), 7.87% (R-Hold)

Maine

Thad O'Connor (R), 57.71% - Joseph Brennan (D), 41.82% - Evan Connor (WMP), 0.47% (R-Hold)

Maryland

Clarence Long (D), 48.18% - Louise Gore (R), 45.74% - Christopher Meese (I), 6.35% (D-Hold)

Massachusetts

Edward M. Kennedy (D), 56.35% - Joseph Malone (R), 43.65% (D-Hold)

Michigan

Mic Ceriel (R), 41.03% - Christian Mattingly (WMP), 36.11% - Coleman Young (D), 22.86% (R-Hold)

Minnesota

David Durenburger (R), 53.74% - Tim Penny (D), 46.26% (R-Hold)

Mississippi

Gillespie V. Montgomery (D), 61.60% - Calvin Holleman (WMP), 28.76% - Richard Hastings (R), 9.64% (D-Hold)

Missouri

John Danforth (R), 52.39% - Robert Young (D), 42.50% - Walter 5.11% (WMP) (R-Hold)

Montana

Scott Westman (D), 48.09% - Cal Winslow (R), 38.29% - Dave McMahon (WMP), 9.35% - Paul Liu (ID), 4.27% (D-Hold)

Nebraska

Charles Thone (R), 56.92% - Craig Beame (D), 43.08% (R-Pick up)

Nevada

Chic Hect (R), 40.41% - Harry Reid (D), 35.27% - Howard Baring (WMP), 24.32% (R-Pick up)

New Jersey

Dean Gallo (R), 59.32% - Brendan Byrne (D), 40.68% (R-Hold)

New Mexico

David F. Cargo (R), 52.42% - Rebecca Vigil (D), 47.58% (R-Hold)

New York

Hamilton Fish IV (R/L), 41.15% - Stephen Solarz (D), 38.21% - Ellen McCormack (C), 20.64% (R Pick-Up)

North Dakota

Mark Andrews (R), 47.53% - Byron Dorgan (D), 41.38% - Harley J. McLain (WMP), 11.09% (R-Pick up)

Ohio

James Traficant (D), 50.77% - "Buz" Lukens (R), 49.23% (D-Pick up)

Pennsylvania

John Heinz (R), 57.12% - Robert Borski (D), 42.88% (R-Hold)

Rhode Island

John Chaffee (R), 60.93% - Frank Caprio (D), 39.07% (R-Hold)

Tennessee

Jim Sasser (D), 53.27% - Don Hagenberg (R), 39.74% - Clayton Lavediere (I), 7.03% (D-Hold)

Texas

James "Fergie" Garner (R), 36.52% - Davis Griffin (WMP), 32.09% - Garry Mauro (D), 31.39% (R-Hold)

Utah

Orrin Hatch (R), 40.53% - Merrill Cook (WMP), 34.83% - Wayne Owens (D), 24.64% (R-Hold)

Vermont

Lawrence Coventry (R), 76.24% - Edwin C. Granai (D), 22.76% (R-Hold)

Virginia

Marshall Coleman (R), 51.84% - Lewis Payne Jr (D), 48.16% (R-Pick up)

Washington

Santiago St. Avila (R), 62.07% - Reese Lindquist (D), 37.93% (R-Hold)

West Virginia

Robert Byrd (D), Unopposed (D-Hold)

Wisconsin

Steve Gunderson (R), 56.21% - Jim Moody (D), 40.56% - Steve Myers (I), 3.23% (R Pick-up)

Wyoming

Malcolm Wallop (R), 36.58% - Humphrey Wilkinson (WMP), 34.21% - John Vinich (D), 29.21% (R-Hold)




98  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 12, 2015, 10:20:34 pm


Alabama:
Laxalt: 35.22%
Bentsen: 34.51%
Ho'kee: 29.22%
Others: 1.05%

Alaska:
Ho'kee: 36.18%
Laxalt: 32.40%
Bentsen: 30.06%
Others: 1.36%

Arizona:
Ho'kee: 37.09%
Laxalt: 33.11%
Bentsen: 28.23%
Others: 1.57%

Arkansas:
Bentsen: 42.80%
Laxalt: 32.56%
Ho'kee: 24.03%
Others: 0.61%

California:
Ho'kee: 46.55%
Bentsen: 42.47%
Laxalt: 8.63%
Others: 2.35%

Colorado:
Ho'kee: 37.06%
Bentsen: 34.20%
Laxalt: 28.07%
Others: 0.67%

Connecticut:
Ho'kee: 49.18%
Bentsen: 46.50%
Laxalt: 2.74%
Others: 1.58%

Delaware:
Ho'kee: 47.40%
Bentsen: 41.12%
Laxalt: 10.34%
Others: 1.14%

Florida:
Ho'kee: 34.23%
Bentsen: 34.03%
Laxalt: 30.93%
Others: 0.81%

Georgia:
Bentsen: 42.09%
Laxalt: 36.58%
Ho'kee: 20.06%
Others: 1.27%

Hawaii:
Ho'kee: 51.38%
Bentsen: 47.21%
Others: 1.09%
Laxalt: 0.32%

Idaho:
Ho'kee: 35.60%
Laxalt: 33.14%
Bentsen: 30.16%
Others: 1.10%

Illinois:
Ho'kee: 46.49%
Bentsen: 41.70%
Laxalt: 10.78%
Others: 1.03%

Indiana:
Ho'kee: 40.69%
Bentsen: 36.21%
Laxalt: 22.04%
Others: 1.06%

Iowa:
Ho'kee: 44.11%
Bentsen: 42.23%
Laxalt: 11.56%
Others: 2.10%

Kansas:
Ho'kee: 34.18%
Bentsen: 33.42%
Laxalt: 31.03%
Others: 1.37%

Kentucky:
Bentsen: 41.61%
Laxalt: 29.20%
Ho'kee: 28.51%
Others: 0.68%

Lousiana:
Bentsen: 43.27%
Laxalt: 39.09%
Ho'kee: 16.12%
Others: 1.52%

Maine:
Ho'kee: 60.72%
Bentsen: 37.18%
Laxalt: 0.89%
Others: 1.21%

Maryland:
Bentsen: 41.27%
Ho'kee: 38.41%
Laxalt: 16.30%
Others: 4.29%

Massachusetts:
Ho'kee: 51.87%
Bentsen: 43.60%
Laxalt: 2.03%
Others: 2.50%

Michigan:
Ho'kee: 41.18%
Bentsen: 35.61%
Laxalt: 20.17%
Others: 2.18%

Minnesota:
Ho'kee: 46.44%
Bentsen: 43.89%
Laxalt: 4.07%
Others: 6.60%

Mississippi:
Bentsen: 45.11%
Laxalt: 39.28%
Ho'kee: 14.54%
Others: 1.07%

Missouri:
Ho'kee: 43.75%
Bentsen: 38.08%
Laxalt: 17.20%
Others: 0.97%

Montana:
Ho'kee: 40.72%
Bentsen: 35.40%
Laxalt: 21.79%
Others: 2.09%

Nebraska:
Ho'kee: 37.15%
Bentsen: 33.71%
Laxalt: 28.90%
Others: 0.24%

Nevada:
Ho'kee: 37.88%
Laxalt: 35.11%
Bentsen: 29.86%
Others: 0.85%

New Hampshire:
Ho'kee: 54.35%
Bentsen: 40.28%
Laxalt: 4.65%
Others: 0.37%

New Jersey:
Ho'kee: 51.06%
Bentsen: 46.52%
Laxalt: 1.23%
Others: 1.19%

New Mexico:
Ho'kee: 41.58%
Bentsen: 37.80%
Laxalt: 18.61%
Others: 2.01%

New York:
Bentsen: 45.02%
Ho'kee: 43.24%
Laxalt: 8.57%
Others: 3.17%

North Carolina:
Bentsen: 41.04%
Laxalt: 29.93%
Ho'kee: 27.56%
Others 1.47%

North Dakota:
Ho'kee: 46.20%
Bentsen: 34.02%
Laxalt: 18.53%
Others: 1.53%

Ohio:
Ho'kee: 43.92%
Bentsen: 42.52%
Laxalt: 12.71%
Other: 0.85%

Oklahoma:
Ho'kee: 37.42%
Bentsen: 32.36%
Laxalt: 30.22%

Oregon:
Ho'kee: 45.71%
Bentsen: 39.75%
Laxalt: 13.03%
Others: 1.51%

Pennsylvania:
Ho'kee: 45.15%
Bentsen: 39.58%
Laxalt: 12.42%
Others: 2.85%

Rhode Island:
Ho'kee: 50.09%
Bentsen: 47.13%
Laxalt: 1.02%
Others: 1.76%

South Carolina:
Bentsen: 45.67%
Laxalt: 30.13%
Ho'kee: 23.41%
Others: 0.79%

South Dakota:
Ho'kee: 39.84%
Bentsen: 35.11%
Laxalt: 24.20%
Others: 0.85%

Tennessee:
Bentsen: 46.27%
Ho'kee: 37.10%
Laxalt: 15.33%
Others: 1.03%

Texas:
Bentsen: 38.56%
Ho'kee: 32.12%
Laxalt: 28.26%
Others: 1.06%

Utah:
Laxalt: 37.91%
Ho'kee: 34.19%
Bentsen: 26.18%
Others: 1.72%

Vermont:
Ho'kee: 62.58%
Bentsen: 34.91%
Laxalt: 1.25%
Others: 1.26%

Virginia:
Bentsen: 37.70%
Ho'kee: 34.01%
Laxalt: 27.60%
Others: 0.69%

Washington:
Ho'kee: 47.98%
Bentsen: 43.76%
Laxalt: 4.79%
Others: 3.47%

West Virginia:
Bentsen: 50.09%
Ho'kee: 34.91%
Bentsen: 14.76%
Others: 0.24%

Wisconsin:
Ho'kee: 51.24%
Bentsen: 44.20%
Laxalt: 2.62%
Other: 1.94%

Wyoming
Ho'kee: 36.71%
Laxalt: 31.05%
Bentsen: 30.86%
Others: 1.38%
99  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: August 12, 2015, 10:17:47 pm
1988 General Election

Were it a movie, the Election of 1988 would have been voted the greatest thriller film of all time. While many elections have had sea changes, none have featured the dramatic polling shifts and plot twists that this past election has. How often is it that the momentum has twice swung in favor of the incumbent party, just for them to lose at the last minute?

Vice President Bentsen had been expecting to begin his own campaign in earnest during Jackson's lame duck period. However, a twist of fate had President Jackson die before his time and thrust Lloyd Bentsen into the hot seat. While this caught him off guard, he was welcomed into office with a strong sympathy sentiment and a clean slate vis-à-vis governance. The impromptu President worked quickly to strike compromises on Iran and social welfare reform, and maintained satisfactory approval ratings.

Bentsen handled the issues tossed into his lap with political acumen that would put Lyndon Johnson to shame. However, his predecessor dug holes for him that were unavoidable. On one end he faced the challenge of Jerry Brown, a left-wing Governor who rode him hard on the issue of the Iran War, as well as the budget deficit and environmental issues. On the opposite front was Senator Patton Wyde, on behalf of the "Jackson Democrats", who criticized Bentsen for not being hawkish enough and for being too soft on free trade.

Bentsen started off well with strong victories in Iowa and New Hampshire. However, he struggled to gain momentum as the Democratic Party's delegate allocation process awarded delegates to candidates based on a candidate's share of the vote, as opposed to a "winner take all" system. Both Patton Wyde and Jerry Brown dogged the President on their pet issues, and it was only due to some bargaining that Bentsen secured the Democratic nomination.

If the Democratic nomination process was a spectacle, then the Republican Primary was a bona-fide sideshow. In a field with five frontrunners, the favorite was a Representative from Georgia with less than a decade of experience under his belt and rumors of marital infidelity circling his head like a toxic halo. Despite the circumstances that beset the President, his opposition was lacking.

The Republican nomination seemed like a Booby Prize. However, despite the challenges that were before him, one man was willing to continue on: Areus Ho'kee, the Speaker of the House. Though he was an underdog in polling, his shrewd calculus of statewide support led him to the Republican nomination; by attrition, Simpson and Weicker quickly dropped out of the race and endorsed him, while he whittled Gingrich's support with an aggressive whisper campaign impugning his ethics. Senator Armstrong was the only man left standing and was relatively ignored by Ho'kee until he dropped out.

Divisions in President Bentsen's Democratic Party made themselves readily apparent in the general election. Early on, polls showed Areus Ho'kee trouncing Bentsen by over two hundred electoral votes. However, Bentsen's campaign found itself a savior in Paul Laxalt, who drew a substantial base from Ho'kee and put Bentsen back into competition. When Senator Laxalt declared, polls showed Bentsen accruing nearly three-hundred electoral votes.

Speaker Ho'kee did his best to mitigate Laxalt. His first response was to mine controversial responses from the Working Man's Party Convention of 1988, in hopes of exposing the WMP's more radical elements. His second display was in the Presidential Debate of 1988, where he went unrestrained against Bentsen and Laxalt. Despite his rhetorical success, polls showed that Ho'kee was basically tied with Bentsen.

Much like the last election, there was a decisive military battle in October, but this time it favored the Republicans. The Bentsen Administration had decided to draw a line in the sand by securing a string of oil sites in Western Iran to ensure cheap oil prices and minimize the ground commitment that America had. However, these sites fell prey to a rogue militia outfit running a scorched earth campaign, and in one dawn the United States' chief objective had been denied and its oil futures market was thrown into disarray. With this, Jackson's house of electoral cards folded and Areus Ho'kee won the Presidency.



Speaker Areus Ho'kee (R-NV) / Governor Lee Dreyfus (R-WI), 352 Electoral Votes
President Lloyd Bentsen (D-TX) / Senator Daniel P. Moynihan (D-NY), 172 Electoral Votes
Senator Paul Laxalt (WMP-NV) / Fmr. Governor Meldrim Thomson (WMP-NH), 14 Electoral Votes
100  Forum Community / Mock Parliment / Re: Sign-in Thread on: August 10, 2015, 05:17:58 pm
Dallasfan65
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