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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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1726  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 11:05:23 pm
stars and bars

Until now, no one has mentioned the stars and bars in this thread.  To my knowledge, Statesrights was the only one who regularly featured it in his signature.  We are concerned with a very different design in this thread.

Well, at least I've learned something from this exchange! I had not been aware of the nomenclature.

This is easy to understand if you're not preoccupied with trying to make excuses for why the continued use of that symbol should be acceptable.

I don't make excuses for tolerance.  It needs no excuses.  Unlike the flag, which has no intrinsic meaning, good or bad, acceptance not only of an individual's right to utilize symbols but also of his right to interpret them as he sees fit is, in my opinion, a quality that has intrinsic merit.

Accepting a person's right to appropriate and display a symbol, or any other symbol, does not preclude judging the merits of that decision. One of the definitions of acceptance is "favorable reception or approval," and that's all that I was conveying. There's no need to get all pedantic and outraged.
1727  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 10:31:00 pm
The case for hypocrisy might at least seem plausible if it were directed at someone who lionizes the Founding Fathers and refuses to admit to their flaws - an assumption that you and DC have jumped to without justification - but even if you were addressing someone with a perfectly favorable view of the American Revolution, insisting that there is anything inauthentic about their purported moral beliefs would make little sense.

'Traitor' is loaded with negative meaning in this context because of the cause for which the Confederates were fighting, a cause that remains the primary association that the stars and bars bring to mind for many people. This is easy to understand if you're not preoccupied with trying to make excuses for why the continued use of that symbol should be acceptable.
1728  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 10:00:04 pm
Hoisted on my own petard.  I dragged that out to give Ernest a hard time last week, didn't I?

Sure, if we're going to the length of finding an historical document showing that the officials of the nascent republic seeks out one of the English King's archenemies and has them sign a treaty which legitimizes the rebellion, then I think it's safe to say that I've made my point about your righteous indignation, real or imagined.

I guess I'll accept this as a "You're right and I'm wrong." I'll take righteous indignation over circumlocutory Confederate apologetics any day.
1729  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 09:48:12 pm
Obviously the term "traitor" carries a radically different moral connotation in the second case.

Obviously.  Indeed, the legislature of South Carolina did nothing illegal when it decided to divorce itself from the United States.  That cannot be said about the British subjects we know as the Patriots who decided to take up arms against their king.

The Treaty of Paris pretty clearly established that the American Revolution was legal, no?
1730  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 09:33:02 pm
The idea of Americans calling people who violently secede from their country "traitors" is hilarious.

What else would we call them?

Not the name, the moral indignation of it all. It's used as an insult in the current context.

I'm more ambivalent about the American Revolution than most Americans are, but, yes, we do tend to view the fight for independence from an unelected monarch as more moral than the slavers' rebellion against a democratically-elected government. Obviously the term "traitor" carries a radically different moral connotation in the second case.
1731  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 09:19:50 pm
The idea of Americans calling people who violently secede from their country "traitors" is hilarious.

What else would we call them?
1732  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Confederate Battle Flag on: August 03, 2013, 07:06:36 pm
Treason, slavery, and white supremacy.
1733  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Abortion and Stem Cell Research on: August 03, 2013, 02:57:26 pm
Quote
Define that life begins with conception.


Quote
Contraceptive use is ok.


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Limit abortions to first 12 weeks, incest, rape, damaged fetuses, and hazards to the mother's life.


Quote
Parental notification and consent before abortions for minors in the above cases.


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24 hour waiting period for abortions.


Quote
Mandatory paternal test for pregnant minors to verify income and consent.


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Strongly support stem cell research./ Embryonic stem cell research is great.


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Hitler had population control policies by infecting the water and we don't need it here.


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Promote abstinence, contraceptives, and safety in sexual education.
1734  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: 16 Reasons Why Hillary Clinton Will Win 2016 on: August 03, 2013, 01:54:54 pm
Christ, Hillary supporters are literally worse now than they were in 2008.







Presented without comment.
1735  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Opinion of the Rastafari movement on: August 03, 2013, 01:28:46 pm
Disgusting homophobes.
1736  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: What should the federal gas tax be? on: August 03, 2013, 01:07:29 pm
I agree with Train and Dead.

I'll add that I would support a flexible rate that increases when gas prices are low and decreases when gas prices increase drastically. Some fluctuations in use aside, maintaining highways costs about the same whatever the price of gas is, and the environmental impact of burning a gallon isn't any less when it costs $1.50 rather than $3.00. If we're going to rely on the gas tax, it needs to be a reliable source of revenue. And it's not like volatility in the price of gas is good for the economy, anyway.
1737  General Politics / Book Reviews and Discussion / Re: What Book Are You Currently Reading? on: August 03, 2013, 12:57:40 pm
Scott, I'm not sure what details of Jesus' life you're most interested in, but if you're looking for an account of how his how his divinity was interpreted over the several hundred years following the resurrection, I recommend When Jesus Became God.
1738  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: ...Mental Health Reform Act of 2013 (WELFARE EXPERT? GTFIH!!!) on: August 03, 2013, 12:45:29 pm
You know, as I complete this bill, we find that it is more and more dependent on other bills that haven't passed yet.


Considering the Basic Income thing, would it be possible to ensure that this problem is addressed as a part of that, whilst just leaving the section in question as blank or tbd by future legislation?

Thoughts? Mr. President what about you?

I'm not sure how much additional spending this will require beyond our current level of Social Security spending. The budget does not assume the passage of a basic income bill, as it is meant to serve as a guide to our level of baseline spending. We will need to decide how to treat current recipients of Social Security in our discussion of the basic income - Do they continue to receive SS with no basic income eligibility, or vice versa? - either way, we'll need to verify that we are not double counting them.





1739  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Committee Approval...Impeachment Amendment (Debating) on: August 03, 2013, 12:37:37 pm
Last year we amended the Constitution to strengthen the language on the matter regarding CJ empaneling the SEante and it was intended on the flip side that a committee whether standing or temporary would be able to weed out frivolous articles so that we wouldn't have to waste Senator's narrow attention spans on a circus over Nix's "request", for example.

A simpler solution for denying frivolous requests would be requiring that two or three Senators sign on to articles of impeachment before they may be considered.
1740  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Best post-dissolution Senate delegation? on: August 03, 2013, 01:47:42 am
I am able to explain but I see little that would be gained by doing so. Doing so would take time that I am not willing to dedicate to anyway.

Willing and able. As you have time to post dozens of messages per day including the one containing the accusation, I have no idea why you would refuse to back it up like that.

Dozens? I'm not barfbag, my ppd is 13. Maybe the mods are willing to explain why Simfan was an annoyance. I have my own reasons but you're completely missing the point of my post, which was nothing more than an attempt to amuse myslf by using BRTD style logic.

Did you succeed?
1741  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Best post-dissolution Senate delegation? on: August 03, 2013, 01:38:39 am
I am able to explain but I see little that would be gained by doing so. Doing so would take time that I am not willing to dedicate to anyway.

Willing and able. As you have time to post dozens of messages per day including the one containing the accusation, I have no idea why you would refuse to back it up like that.
1742  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Best post-dissolution Senate delegation? on: August 03, 2013, 01:34:36 am
I'm not going to get into his mental issues or various other things. Hes banned and we can put him behind us. He was interesting at times but I can't say I'd vote to bring him back. He had already peaked.

If you're trying to get me to say something stupid, I'm not going to this time.

Huh? If you're going to call someone an "annoyance" and sh**t on his work in the Senate, then you ought to be able to explain it. I don't see how his sock accounts and eventual banning, which happened later, have anything to do with it.
1743  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Best post-dissolution Senate delegation? on: August 03, 2013, 01:28:31 am
How as Simfan an "annoyance"?
1744  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Millikin professor had dark secret: He killed his family 46 years ago on: August 03, 2013, 01:27:01 am
Yes, tried for murder and what's left of his life in prison.

This. Being "crazy" isn't an excuse for murder. And no, it isn't.

Actually, it is...  Texas defines homicide: "A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual."

An insane person won't have the understanding of his actions, and thus there's no mens rea, and no conviction.

No I mean in real life. Not legal technicality. This guy literally killed his entire family. He should be put down. There is no place for him in society

Four decades of peaceful behavior and hundreds of students educated would seem to suggest otherwise.
1745  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Senators from the opposite party that you are willing to vote for on: August 03, 2013, 12:16:44 am
Arlen Specter
Jim Jeffords
Lincoln Chaffee
1746  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Opinion of Cat Declawing on: August 02, 2013, 11:35:15 pm
I did not spend $10,000 on two German Shorthaired Pointers to not have them cosmetically enhanced to meet breed standards.  

1747  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE 2: New Northeast Minimum Wage Act on: August 02, 2013, 11:19:11 pm
This bill would lower the region's minimum wage by more than half. I'm guessing that isn't Earthling's intent, given his generally pro-labor views.
1748  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The White House: Αverroës/DemPGH on: August 02, 2013, 11:09:24 pm
Quote from: EXECUTIVE ORDER #013
I nominate TALLEYRAND to serve as DEPUTY SECRETARY OF FEDERAL ELECTIONS.
1749  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE 1: The Ticket Amendment (Failed) on: August 02, 2013, 09:34:18 pm
Ah, I hadn't realized that, my mistake. In that case, no further action is required here.
1750  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Sentinel Polling: At Large Senate Poll on: August 02, 2013, 09:14:49 pm
I think I said that MaxQue would have my first preference when this contest was last polled. That remains true.

I'm not sure how I'll order the rest of my ballot. Among the non-Laborites, Sjoyce and Maxwell are my favorite candidates. (KISS OF DEATH!!!)
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