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76  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Margaret Thatcher vs Marine Le Pen on: May 05, 2017, 09:36:00 pm
Thatcher easily(sane)
77  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of TrumpCare on: May 05, 2017, 04:06:58 pm
A step towards getting the government out of the health care business, so I would have voted for it even though I would have just preferred a bill that said "the government has no role in funding or providing health care".

What about disabled veterans?

You see, they knew the risks when they took the job, so it's obviously their own personal responsibility. Smiley
78  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of TrumpCare on: May 05, 2017, 03:49:46 pm
Isn't basically like Obamacare, but without actually spending enough money to run it? Yeah, no.
79  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Favorite Different States states, Round 5 on: May 05, 2017, 03:31:08 pm
Allegheny, Carolina, Cherokee, Colorado, Hawaii, LaSalle, Lincoln, New York, Oregon, Oso and Texas.
80  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is the concept of a "free market" important to you? on: May 05, 2017, 12:27:21 pm
Yes, though my idea of a "free market" probably doesn't not quote match up with the anarcho-capitalist one.
81  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / 6th Congressional Noticeboard on: May 05, 2017, 12:23:28 pm
President: dfwlibertylover
Vice President: Goldwater

3rd Congress of the Republic of Atlasia
Article Three, Atlasian Constitution
President of Congress: Goldwater

People's House of Representatives:
House Rules
Speaker: TBD
Deputy Speaker: TBD

Members (by Seniority)
Peebs
North Carolina Yankee
simossad
OneJ
Leinad
Pessimistic Antineutrino
Clyde1998
Santander
Dereich

Regional Senate:
Senate Rules
Senate President Pro-Tempore: TBD
Deputy President Pro-Tempore: TBD

R2D2 - Northern Class I Senator
Scott - Northern Class II Senator
PiT (The Physicist) - Southern Class I Senator
Sjoyce - Southern Class II Senator
Siren - Fremont Class I Senator
TedBessel - Fremont Class II Senator
82  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SB - Presidential Succession Act of 2017 on: May 05, 2017, 12:05:10 pm
My sincerest apologies guys, I completely dropped the fvcking ball on these Senate bill slots. Since it is technically now the start of a new Congress, I'll wait until they are set up before opening up the vote, because I don't want to start the vote in a weird between congresses state.
83  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SB - End the NSA's Spying Act on: May 05, 2017, 12:04:38 pm
My sincerest apologies guys, I completely dropped the fvcking ball on these Senate bill slots. Since it is technically now the start of a new Congress, I'll wait until they are set up before opening up the vote, because I don't want to start the vote in a weird between congresses state.
84  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation Hearing - DrewMike for National Archivist (Confirmed) on: May 05, 2017, 11:57:58 am
By a vote of 5-0, DrewMike has been confirmed to the position of National Archivist.
85  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: HB - Criminal Justice Act of 2016 (Amended by Senate, Voting Now) on: May 05, 2017, 11:26:11 am
Quote
Section 4 (Criminal Liability)
i. In order for a criminal conviction in the Republic of Atlasia to stand it is necessary that the case against a defendant or against multiple defendants be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.
ii. The basic standard of liability for cases concerning both Crimes Against Atlasia and Acts of Treason shall be as in the Common Law: actus reas non facit reum nisi mens sit rea. It must therefore be proven not only that a criminal act has taken place but that the citizen charged can be reasonably held to be fully responsible, whether by act or by omission, for that criminal act.
iii. In cases in which it is certain that a criminal act has been committed by a member of a group of persons, but that it is not certain which of those persons has committed the criminal act, then it shall be possible to convict all said group of persons of the criminal charge in question, provided it can be demonstrated that there was no attempt by that group of persons to prevent the criminal act from taking place.

Section 5 (Criminal Prosecution)
i. Trial of all Crimes against Atlasia and Acts of Treason shall be performed in full compliance with the provisions of Article I of the Fourth Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia. Breach of these provisions shall render any conviction unsafe.
ii. Defendants shall not be denied access to legal counsel from an active citizen of their choice, and also retain the right to waive their right to legal counsel. If a defendant has attempted without success to secure legal counsel or has, after a period of more than forty eight hours, declined to either seek or affirmatively waive legal representation, then the Department of Justice shall nominate an appropriately qualified citizen to act as Public Defendant for the duration of the trial. Said nominee must meet with the approval of the Presiding Judge in the trial in question and must be a person of upstanding moral character.
iii. The Judiciary is hereby mandated to create and to uphold all rules with respect to trial procedure, up to and including the matter of personal conduct, so long as these rules do not contradict any part of this Act. In the event of a gross breach of trial procedure, the Presiding Judge may choose to charge the person or persons responsible with Contempt of Court which shall be treated as a Crime against Atlasia as per Section 2, clause i of this Act.

Section 6 (Admissibility of Evidence)
i. The Presiding Judge may admit the following as evidence at his own discretion:
(a) Any actual statements, whether quoted in full or in part, made on the Atlas Forum that pertain to the trial. If these statements have been deleted from the Atlas Forum but a copy in the form of a screenshot has been made of them, then that copy in the form of a screenshot may be treated as equally admissible to an original quoted statement. If these statements have been deleted from the Atlas Forum, but survive whether in full or in part as quotations in the post of another Atlas Forum user, then these quoted fragments may also be treated as equally admissible to an original quoted statement.
(b) The sworn testimony of a citizen of the Republic of Atlasia who has witnessed the alleged offence or its planning or preparation at first hand, or who has witnessed credible evidence of conspiracy.
(c) An admission of guilt or culpability by the defendant in a thread on the Atlas Forum, or in a place viewed or heard by other persons, with recordings or testimony attributing to the same.
(d) Evidence obtained through proper investigation of the IP address from which the offence was perpetrated.
(e) Credible evidence presented to the Court by the Forum Moderators or by Dave Leip, the Forum Owner.
(f) Other forms of evidence that are credible in nature and which do not contradict this Act or the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia may additionally be considered.
ii. The Presiding Judge has an absolute right to reject evidence (whether in whole or in part) that he or she feels to be tainted by procedural flaws, to be of dubious provenance or to wholly lack credibility.

Section 7 (Sentencing)
i. In the event of a conviction, sentencing shall be carried out by the Presiding Judge in accordance with the following guidelines:
(a) The standard punishment for both Crimes Against Atlasia and Acts of Treason shall be the removal of certain political rights the right to hold office and the right to vote in federal or regional elections of the guilty person or persons. The Presiding Judge may decide at his or her discretion on the exact combination of political rights to remove from the guilty person or persons. Subsequent references to sentence length refer to any and all combination of the above punishments.
(b) For all Crimes Against Atlasia and even for Acts of Treason there shall be no minimum sentence. In such exceptional cases as the Presiding Judge sees fit, he or she may opt to issue a Discharge, which shall mean that the guilty person or persons shall suffer no punishment further than the acquisition of a criminal record.
(c) The maximum sentence for all Crimes Against Atlasia other than Identity Theft or Electoral Intimidation shall be of one year in length.
(d) The maximum sentence for Identity Theft and Electoral Intimidation shall be of two year in length.
(e) The maximum sentence for all Acts of Treason and Terrorism shall be of three years in length.
(f) The Presiding Judge may decide, if there are adequate grounds, to suspend a sentence in whole or in part and instead place the guilty person or persons under a period of probation, the exact length of which shall be no longer and no shorter than the part of the sentence being suspended. Failure by the guilty person or persons to obey in full the terms of their probation shall result in the immediate imposition of their full sentence. Life Sentences may not be suspended.

Atlasian Regional Senate
Passed 5-0 in the Atlasian Senate assembled
Be it resolved, X Senator PiT, PPT

Atlasian People's House of Representatives
[http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=262218.msg5611491#msg5611491]Passed 7-0 in the Atlasian House of Representatives Assembled,[/url]


President of Congress

86  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: HB - Criminal Justice Act of 2016 (Amended by Senate, Voting Now) on: May 05, 2017, 11:23:45 am
Quote
AN ACT
to establish the criminal code
of the Republic of Atlasia

Section 1 (Title)
i. The long title of this Act shall be, the Criminal Justice Act of 2016. It may be cited as the Criminal Justice Act or as the CJA.

Section 2 (Crimes against Atlasia)
i. The following shall be crimes against Atlasia:
(a) Impersonation. This offense shall be defined as the impersonation of another Atlas Forum member, be they a citizen of the Republic of Atlasia or not, within the territory of the Republic of Atlasia.
(b) Identity Theft. This offence shall be defined as the illicit taking of control by any means of another Atlas Forum member's person account, be they a citizen of the republic or not, without explicit and provable consent.
(c) Voter Fraud. This offence shall be defined as the creation of identities other than a citizen's primary identity in the Republic of Atlasia and subsequently entering this identity into the tally of registered voters.
1. If a citizen no longer has access to their previous forum account and wishes to register with a new forum account in Atlasia, then they shall be allowed to do so legally only if they make it clear in the registration thread who they are and which forum account they previously registered under so that the Secretary of Federal Elections may appropriately update the registration without having any duplicate accounts on the voter roll.
2. This shall exclude those who have had their previous account banned from the Atlas Forum.
(d) Electoral Fraud. This offence shall be defined as the manipulation of of the republic's electoral procedures and practices with the aim of fraudulently altering the results of a specific electoral contest.
(e) Obscenity. This offence shall be defined as the posting of any threads, messages, images, videos, links or other media of a pornographic or sexually explicit nature on the territory of the Republic of Atlasia. In cases where the material posted is of a clearly pornographic nature, the offence shall be known as Gross Obscenity.
(f) Electoral Intimidation. This offence shall be defined as the placing of undue pressure on a citizen of the Republic to cast a ballot in a particular way, to not cast a ballot at all, or to invalidate a ballot already cast via direct threats of revenge, blackmail, or retribution. In those cases in which undue pressure has been applied in the form of credible threats to disclose personal information, the offence shall be known as Grievous Electoral Intimidation.

(g) Ballot Tampering. This offence shall be defined as the deletion of a ballot during a period between vote was closed and elected officeholders sworn-in or soliciting to delete a ballot during the same period.
(h) Misconduct in Public Office. This offence shall be defined as the abuse of office for provable personal gain by cabinet officials or deputy cabinet officials.
(i) Perjury. This offence shall be defined as "any person who takes an oath before a competent tribunal or officer that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, wilfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true."
(j) Breach of the Peace. This offence shall be defined as the wilful undertaking of activities that though not treasonous nevertheless undermine the stability and security of the Republic of Atlasia.
(k) Malicious Editing of the Wiki. This offence shall be defined as the editing of the Atlasia Wiki with malicious intent.
(l) Improper Behaviour on the Wiki. This offence shall be defined as the knowing violation or flagrant disregard of standards and guidelines for the Atlasia Wiki established by the National Archivist.
(m) Contempt of Court. See Section 5, clause iii of this Act.
(n) Terrorism. This offense shall be defined as the malacious deletion or destruction of threads housing government institutions, voting booths, or the legislation threads of any legislative body in Atlasia.
ii. In those cases in which a Crime Against Atlasia has been attempted unsuccessfully, it shall nevertheless be possible to charge a citizen with the offense that they unsuccessfully attempted to commit. In such cases the official record of the charge shall be prefaced with 'Attempted', but no other alterations to procedure shall be made. This applies to all Crimes Against Atlasia with the exception of Obscenity (including Gross Obscenity), Misconduct in Public Office, Perjury, and Contempt of Court.
iii. In those cases in which the perpetrator of a Crime Against Atlasia has been instructed, commissioned, mandated, or otherwise aided by other persons in the planning or execution of the offence in question, then those persons may also be charged with the offence that they conspired to commit. In such cases the record of the charge shall be prefaced with Conspiracy to Commit, but no other alterations to procedure shall be made. It shall not be necessary to charge an individual with a specific Crime Against Atlasia in order to charge other persons in this manner.

Section 3 (Treason)
i. The following acts are hereby declared to be treasonous:
(a) Rebellion. This shall be defined as the use of armed forces to overthrow the government of Republic of Atlasia or the government of any of its constituent Regions.
(b) Aiding Rebellion. This shall be defined as the intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to any person, persons, group or groups engaged in or seeking to engage in rebellion against the government of the Republic of Atlasia or the government of any of its constituent Regions.
(c) Terrorism. This shall be defined as the use or threat of use of force or violence by a person, persons or organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the government of the Republic of Atlasia or the government of any of its constituent Regions.
(d) Destruction of a Voting Booth. This shall be defined as the deleting of the thread in which a voting booth or an absentee voting booth for an active election is contained.
(e) Destruction of Public Records.  This shall be defined as the deleting of a thread in which legislation or executive actions are contained.
(f) Secession. This shall be defined as the declaration or threatened declaration of independence from the Republic of Atlasia by any territorial entity within the bounds of the Republic of Atlasia or by any group of persons within the bounds of the Republic of Atlasia, except according to the provisions set forth in the Constitution thereof.
(g) Refutation of Federal Supremacy in Law. This shall be defined as the denial whether by word, by deed, or by omission by any serving officeholder in the Republic of Atlasia or any of its constituent Regions of the supremacy of federal law, or of the decision by any person to serve in a Regional government that denies that it is subject to federal law.
87  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: HB - Criminal Justice Act of 2016 (Amended by Senate, Voting Now) on: May 05, 2017, 11:22:05 am
I thought I had moved this on to the president, apparently not.
88  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Montenegro be a part of NATO? on: May 03, 2017, 11:05:26 pm
I see no reason for them not to...
89  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What seems more likely on: May 03, 2017, 01:27:42 pm
Why on earth would the 19th century GOP have any issue with industrialists and war profiteers? Huh
Wasn't there a slightly socialist wing of the GOP after the civil war? I know it collapsed afterwards, but I recall this.

Any movement dedicated to fighting the slave power is going to draw a very wide range of appeal on the ideological spectrum; let's not pretend like these "socialists" had literally any influence over GOP economic policy.
I actually disagree. Marxists would say that capitalism is a necessary step before the socialist revolution, which comes directly after agrarianism. The GOP until about 1880 could have theoretically been in line with socialist ideals.

You are on the wrong side of history, my friend. If Lincoln saw the current system, he would agree with social safety nets and government intervention during recessions. He would be fine with a black President and would think Trump is some type of buffoon. Lincoln wasn't a progressive, he was a moderate or even liberal Republican for the time, meaning he was opposed to the conservative wing of the GOP and the Democrats. The parties were arguably more  based on geography than ideology after the collapse of the Whigs.

The Democrats were classical liberals, in the sense that they were opposed to government intervention in the economy through tariffs and banks. They thought that type of stuff harmed workers and made the rich richer. The Republicans probably were divided on this, there were some moderates like Lincoln, but people like Fremont and Sumner might call themselves liberals or even radicals. The industrialists were probably mostly Republicans since they liked the idea of the government giving land to railroads.

So again, why would the 19th century GOP have any issue with the modern Republicans being thhe party of industrialists? Tongue
90  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Political Quiz List. Are you a Quiz Whiz? on: May 03, 2017, 01:24:44 pm
I took this quiz despite my lack of religion, and got "Liberal Revanchism".
91  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Who is the biggest war hawk in the Senate? on: May 02, 2017, 11:41:05 pm
Is support for torture "enhanced interrogation techniques" considered part of hawkishness? If so, than the answer clearly can't be McCain.
92  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: What seems more likely on: May 02, 2017, 11:34:47 pm
no u
93  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Would Trump releasing his tax return change your opinion of him? on: May 02, 2017, 11:33:54 pm
     No, as I couldn't care less about his tax returns.
94  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation Hearing - DrewMike for National Archivist (Final Vote) on: May 02, 2017, 07:54:38 pm
Whelp, I guess nobody has any more questions. Senators, please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain.
95  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Favorite Different States states, Round 4 on: May 02, 2017, 05:51:16 pm
Wow, this series is pretty cool! What would make it even cooler is a map showing how long each state lasted.



Round 1 Losers: Choctaw, Dakota, Kentucky, Llano, Maricopa, Miami, Mississippi, Missouri, Osceola, Ozark, Pawnee, Seminole, Texarkana, Washington
Round 2 Losers: California, Chattahochee, Chesapeake, Columbia, Hudson, Jackson, Nevada, Secoya, Seneca, Shoshone, Susquehanna
Round 3 Losers: Adams, Franklin, Houston, Puerto Rico, Rio Grande

Aw yes, the sad destruction of most of my favorite states. Cry
96  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: Let's build an relevant "urban/suburban/rural county" map on: May 02, 2017, 03:15:51 pm
I think a good breakdown would be something like,

"Urban" is a county with an ANCHOR city of 200,000 or above ... that would include places like Rochester, NY and Columbus, OH on the low end but eliminates places like Aurora, IL, as they would be suburban in nature.

"Suburban" is any county that is part of a metro area involving a city of 200,000 or above, with that state's "map author" left to his/her own discretion as to what qualifies as exurban/possibly rural on the outer edges.

"Mid-Sized City" is a county with a city above 100,000 but less than 200,000, and the counties that its "suburbs" are in (assuming it is not a suburb itself) would likely be considered exurban or rural.

"Small City" would be a city above 50,000 but less than 100,000, and the counties that might be a part of its metro are almost certainly also "Small City" counties or are rural.

Anything less would be considered rural, deferring to the map author's perceived exceptions ... after all, the subjectivity is what would make this useful.  Again, these would be guidelines, but people's actual knowledge of the area would trump these.

These seem fairly accurate, though like you said local knowledge should trump the guidelines. For example, under these rules Washoe County (Reno) would be "Urban", even though I have always thought of it as a "Mid-Sized City" type area. Though admittedly it has been a few years since I have lived in the area, so maybe my perception is outdated.
97  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Obama's Wall Street speechifying on: May 02, 2017, 11:57:57 am
Look at the sheer hypocrisy on the part of both parties as per the poll results. Lulz.

What's hypocritical about the majority of Republicans not having an issue with it?
98  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Battle of the Vice Presidential runners-Up: Round Two on: May 02, 2017, 01:13:46 am
[1] Kemp
[2] Bentsen
[3] Dole
[4] Lodge
[5] Warren

Or something like that.
99  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Obama's Wall Street speechifying on: May 01, 2017, 06:49:17 pm

Sure, but that's the only thing we have in common. Tongue
100  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How would you describe the previous poster's ideology? on: May 01, 2017, 04:21:37 pm
Religious Left
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