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October 01, 2014, 09:18:46 am
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News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

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101  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: FL-Gov, AIF: Great Scott in the lead on: September 12, 2014, 09:57:28 pm
It's basically an internal, krazen. Calm down.
102  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: LA-GQR: Landreiu leads 48-46 in runoff in her internal on: September 12, 2014, 07:21:21 pm
I find it hard to believe that Maness would do that much better than Cassidy, when he's only at 13% in the primary. That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
103  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice on: September 12, 2014, 05:20:13 pm
Your questions are answered by the video. If Rice wants help, it's up to him to get it, no one else. If everyone just stayed quiet about the video, that would hardly help the situation.

If Rice wants help, what should happen to him?  If Rice doesn't want help, what should happen to him?

As for your second sentence, that's a false dichotomy.  In no way have I advocated for people to "just stay quiet".  There is a difference between speaking out and demonizing.  Neither I nor Carson has advocated in favor of "just staying quiet".

Why are you asking so many questions? Personally, I think he should be in jail, but I'm not on a jury nor can I bring charges, so asking me is a moot point.

You are saying that there is no point in people going on television criticizing him, because it does nothing to help him. The alternative to that is to really say nothing, which is not at all helpful.

I'm asking so many questions so that I can understand your logic.  So you think he should be in jail.  I'm assuming it's for a number of years if he wants help, but how long should he be in jail if he doesn't want help?  Asking you isn't a moot point, because the purpose of asking is to flesh out you rationale, which so far has been shaky at best.

I am not saying that there is no point in people going on television criticizing him; I'm saying there's no point in people going on television and demonizing him.  The difference there is key.  You seem to be substituting "criticize" with "demonize", and if you don't understand the difference, then it's no wonder you think Carson was wrong; however, the problem with that is that you are equating two verbs which absolutely do not mean the same thing.

You are quite argumentative. I know the difference between the two words, I'm not ignorant. There really is no debate here, Rice was wrong and that's what my point is. Why don't you answer some questions yourself; How was Rice demonized? Do you think he should have been fired? Do you think his fiancee holds responsibility for him hitting her? State exactly what your point is, because you aren't making any sense and it seems you only want to argue, as usual.
104  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: NC-Sen: Hagan/DSCC internal has Hagan up 3. on: September 12, 2014, 07:55:32 am
Phil messed up once again, although not quite as badly as, "It's Not Over!"
105  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: TX: Davis trails by 8 in internal on: September 11, 2014, 09:46:50 pm
Look at it like this, even if she doesn't have a chance, she is more competent and intelligent that any challengers Republicans have put up in blue states.

Um, Charlie Baker, Neel Kashkari, Bruce Rauner and Tom Foley all come to mind as extremely intelligent and competent (at least in their non-political careers) GOP challengers for governor in blue states. And at the way things are going, even Kashkari might end up getting a higher vote percentage than Davis.

Charlie Baker is yet another Republican who lost in a banner GOP year, and Neel Kashkari's campaign is going nowhere. That homeless stunt he pulled was embarrassing.
106  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: TX: Davis trails by 8 in internal on: September 11, 2014, 09:44:21 pm
Look at it like this, even if she doesn't have a chance, she is more competent and intelligent that any challengers Republicans have put up in blue states.

Ummm....no. Rauner and Foley come to mind, though they are doing well because of their opponents' unpopularity.

Davis will lose by a Bill White margin which is par for the course in Texas.

Rauner talked about eliminated the minimum wage, not a smart thing to say in a state like Illinois. Foley lost in a banner Republican year, and there is no guarantee he'll win year.
107  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: TX: Davis trails by 8 in internal on: September 11, 2014, 09:16:36 pm
Look at it like this, even if she doesn't have a chance, she is more competent and intelligent that any challengers Republicans have put up in blue states.
108  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 House Election Polls / Re: NY-19 (Time Warner Cable/Siena) - Gibson (R) +24 on: September 11, 2014, 09:13:53 pm
A cardboard Boehner cut out would help here.
109  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: CO-SUSA: Udall +4 on: September 11, 2014, 06:12:19 pm
Looks like Republicans won't be picking up any seats in states that Obama won.
110  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 House Election Polls / Re: NY-21 (Siena)- Stefanik holds double digit lead on: September 11, 2014, 06:10:23 pm
Yeah, that's probably not going to turn out that way. It's hard to see Republicans actually gaining any seats that Romney didn't carry. We'll see what happens.
111  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: GOP Generic Ballot Surge on: September 11, 2014, 06:09:30 pm
2.5% isn't sizable...

Republicans have their own math. Trailing by 10% can equal "Toss-up", but leading by 2% equals a landslide.
112  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: MI: Suffolk: Schauer (D) leading on: September 11, 2014, 03:05:27 pm
better get to higher ground guys, the REPUBLICAN WAVE is building!!!!

Oh please.  Michigan going Democratic is hardly a sign of a good night for the Democrats.  It is a tough state for the GOP.  Think about it this way--Snyder signed right-to-work in the unionyist of union states and he's still within the margin of error. Amazing.

In a midterm, an incumbent Republican losing is not exactly commonplace in Michigan.
113  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: NC-Rasmussen: Hagan pulls ahead by 6 on: September 11, 2014, 11:53:43 am
Rasmussen almost never shows numbers too favorable to Democrats, it's almost a Republican internal. It's good news if Hagan is leading in their poll.
114  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls / Re: IL-Global Strategy Group (D): Quinn takes the lead on: September 11, 2014, 11:03:17 am
I knew this would happen. Lean Democratic.
115  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: NC-Rasmussen: Hagan pulls ahead by 6 on: September 11, 2014, 10:50:06 am
I'm thinking that Hagan wins this one, at this stage, she should be able to lock in a lead.
116  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: SD: SUSA: Rounds +11, Weiland, Pressler nearly tie on: September 11, 2014, 12:45:03 am
In Nebraska, Republicans removed their violent Lt. Governor nominee from the ballot, even though the deadline passed. So, yeah, you might not want to rethink your comment.
117  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: IA-PPP for Americans for Tax Fairness: Ernst +2% on: September 11, 2014, 12:40:28 am
Someone should worry more about getting Corbett off the ballot. Braley is not doomed, but if Republicans want to think that, they should pull all their money out of AK, AR, LA and NC, and put it towards Ernst.
118  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice on: September 10, 2014, 01:07:51 pm
Your questions are answered by the video. If Rice wants help, it's up to him to get it, no one else. If everyone just stayed quiet about the video, that would hardly help the situation.

If Rice wants help, what should happen to him?  If Rice doesn't want help, what should happen to him?

As for your second sentence, that's a false dichotomy.  In no way have I advocated for people to "just stay quiet".  There is a difference between speaking out and demonizing.  Neither I nor Carson has advocated in favor of "just staying quiet".

Why are you asking so many questions? Personally, I think he should be in jail, but I'm not on a jury nor can I bring charges, so asking me is a moot point.

You are saying that there is no point in people going on television criticizing him, because it does nothing to help him. The alternative to that is to really say nothing, which is not at all helpful.
119  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice on: September 10, 2014, 12:55:15 pm
There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.

Being called out and being demonized are two different things, and no, it's not all in the same line of logic (although I'm not sure you finished your sentence... I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say).  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior wasn't acceptable.  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior shouldn't be spoken about negatively.  You're talking about things that aren't what Carson said.

Conveniently you glossed over my two questions in my last post, so I'll ask them again:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?
2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

Carson's notion that the wife needs help too implies that she is somehow to blame, which is a sneaky defense for Rice. Never once did I claim that Carson said the behavior was acceptable, I was stating that he was borderline defending Rice in a convoluted way.

I don't know about you, but that video speaks for itself. I don't think demonizing is even the right word for the response. You are entitled to your opinion, so I will not argue with you. End of debate.

Saying that he wife needs help isn't implying that she's to blame.  It's acknowledging the fact that a substantial majority of abused women return to their abusers.  Like I said above, if you're going to say that acknowledging this fact is the same as victim blaming, then every domestic abuse shelter and organization I've ever dealt with is guilty of victim blaming.  The point is that there's a difference between victim blaming and acknowledging statistics and reality.

You're avoiding the questions.  In no way am I saying that what he did is right or justifiable, but going on TV and lambasting the guy does absolutely nothing to rehabilitate him or get his wife help.  It amazes me that so often the liberals on this site abhor the death penalty and mandatory minimums, citing the point of the corrections system to rehabilitate people, yet they're so quick to jump on Carson and think that Rice should be demonized.  Where's the rehabilitation there?  That accomplishes nothing other than to draw attention to an issue without putting an ounce forward to fix it.

Your questions are answered by the video. If Rice wants help, it's up to him to get it, no one else. If everyone just stayed quiet about the video, that would hardly help the situation.
120  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice on: September 10, 2014, 11:45:42 am
There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him. 

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.

Being called out and being demonized are two different things, and no, it's not all in the same line of logic (although I'm not sure you finished your sentence... I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to say).  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior wasn't acceptable.  At no point did Carson say that Rice's behavior shouldn't be spoken about negatively.  You're talking about things that aren't what Carson said.

Conveniently you glossed over my two questions in my last post, so I'll ask them again:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?
2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

Carson's notion that the wife needs help too implies that she is somehow to blame, which is a sneaky defense for Rice. Never once did I claim that Carson said the behavior was acceptable, I was stating that he was borderline defending Rice in a convoluted way.

I don't know about you, but that video speaks for itself. I don't think demonizing is even the right word for the response. You are entitled to your opinion, so I will not argue with you. End of debate.
121  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: MI-PPP: Peters +7 on: September 10, 2014, 11:40:02 am
I think this poll is off (the numbers are way too high). Peter's is also well under 50% at this time as well. Lastly, there are alot of reasons as to why PPP can't be trusted this cycle.

That being said I still think Peter's is ahead by a 2-4 point margin.

Land has just proven to be a terrible candidate. The numbers reflect that.
122  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: VA-Christopher Newport University: Warner+22 on: September 10, 2014, 11:38:02 am
Nothing will convince Republicans that this seat is not competitive.
123  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 House Election Polls / Re: NH: UNH: Fluid races in both districts on: September 10, 2014, 12:06:23 am
Both Kuster and Shea-Porter will probably win.

LOL

Denial ain't a river in Egypt

That actually should be "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt". If you are going to be snarky, at least try to get it correct.
124  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice on: September 09, 2014, 06:34:38 pm
There is no doubt that if this were a year from now and the campaign were in full swing he would be spending the next week defending this and eventually doing some sort of public apology. The media would be all over him over this. The whole thing just shows that even though he thinks that God wants him to be President, he is simply not ready for prime time.

When has he ever said he thinks God wants him to be President?  At this point, he's still leaning away from even running.

Carson is defending him, no amount of playing semantics can change that. Zimmerman defenders used the same logic, "let's not jump to conclusions", "don't demonize him", "you weren't there, you don't know what happened", so I don't buy that Carson is not defending him.  

No; "let's not jump to conclusions" is a lot different than advocating for not demonizing him.  Nowhere has Carson ever said, "let's not jump to conclusions" or "we don't know what happened".  There's no indication that Carson thinks Rice was in any way justified or should not be held responsible for what he did.

I mean, really, what good does demonizing him do?  The guy needs help.  He should be charged with assault, as he was, and he accepted a pretrial intervention program.  The criminal system should be about rehabilitating those who can be rehabilitated and permanently separating those who cannot from society.  Portraying someone to be a wicked, disgusting person accomplishes neither of those things.

It's all in the same line of logic, which is implying that having a negative opinion of people who do the wrong thing is somehow unfair. Of course someone who is caught on tape knocking a person unconscious is going to be spoken about negatively, that behavior is unacceptable and needs to be called out. He portrayed himself as a disgusting person through his own behavior.
125  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2014 Senatorial Election Polls / Re: NC-Sen: Hagan/DSCC internal has Hagan up 3. on: September 09, 2014, 04:58:09 pm
Ha! Excellent to see the Tillis lead confirmed.

His own internal showed it a tie, so what makes you think he's in the lead? If anything, he's trailing.
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