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1  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Boston Citizens vs. Harvard Faculty on: Today at 01:30:03 am
What's the quote from? And I assume it was once said by a conservative and that you're "ironically" going to turn it on its head.
2  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Post random maps here on: February 28, 2015, 10:34:54 pm
1984

Senator Christopher Garrett (D-VT)/Congresswoman Patricia Schroeder (D-CO) 285 electoral votes
President Robert J. Dole (R-KS)/Vice President A. Linwood Holton (R-VA) 253 electoral votes
3  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Unfortunate Son on: February 28, 2015, 10:16:31 pm
What would be the biggest source of division within the Democratic party in 1984 was who exactly to blame for their electoral exodus. The popular narrative was that the Democrats had drifted too far to the left and that, by adopting an anti-war hero as their figurehead and President, they had become too far out-of-touch with the ordinary voter. Senator Hart and Governor Askew proposed two different ways to remedy this: Hart, by abandoning the union base of a de-industrializing country in favor of middle class voters who were seeking real solutions to America's problems, and Askew by getting "back to basics" and appealing to blue collar workers in the North and South who had been turned off by Kennedy's social liberalism and the perception that the Democrats were both "soft on crime" and "soft on communism".

It would be Vermont's Christopher Garrett who proposed the antithesis to both of these "defeatist" philosophies. "My opponents are claiming that only by retreating from what makes us a party that we can win. Even if such ideas were true and we could see a President Hart or a President Askew, such would be a pointless victory, as they can offer this party nothing more than any Republican. Hart would see the New Deal and Great Society dismantled in favor of corporatism, and Askew would bring us another Vietnam with his anti-Soviet brinksmanship. 

While historians would, in fact, agree with his assessment that Kennedy and Brewer had both governed to the right of the liberal Democratic base, few would, looking back, say that Garrett offered the party anything better. Rather, his campaign centered around re-affirming that a Democrat, if only they were left-wing enough, could win. What would be later joking called the "Garrett Formula" would be the idea that an economic liberal would appeal to blue collar, union workers, and that a social liberal would bring in left-wing activists as well as "Rockefeller Republicans" fed up with the GOP's turn to the right. The logic was that while Hart could bring in suburban voters and former Republicans, he would lose the union vote, and that Askew would, at best, completely alienate urbane, college-educated, and upper-class voters. Only Garrett or a similar candidate could revive Democratic strength.

It would be because of this, because of a party in defeat that wanted to re-affirm that a true progressive stalwart could beat back against the Republican popularity and the Presidency of Bob Dole, that Garrett would win the Democratic nomination, many would argue.

Garrett would also profit from various institutional advantages. Unlike George McGovern, or Kennedy's 1968 campaign, he would not be challenging an incumbent. As well, he was able to win the financial support of organized labor early on in the nominating process. As well, Hart and Askew were easily traced to the Presidents they had been connected with--Kennedy and Brewer, respectively. Garrett, by comparison, portrayed himself as independent of the entire last 24 years of Democratic politics, even claiming that "real, true liberalism hasn't been honestly tried by the Democratic party since the days of the New Deal."

The Askew campaign would easily peter out. The Democrats outside of Dixie had little reason to support a Southerner, and Garrett successfully siphoned black votes in the South, undercutting Askew in his home region. Hart, on the other hand, would prove a different sort of animal. While Garrett maintained an advantage in large states due to the influence of organized labor and African-American urban voters, and also ate into the rural Mid-West, Hart would win every state West of the Dakotas but for Garrett's narrow victory in the Washington caucus early on. As well, Hart ironically would perform well in New England, taking New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Connecticut. Nevertheless, with Garrett still appealing to more "traditional" Democratic voters and picking up the majority of Southern support after Askew dropped out, the Vermont Senator would prove victorious.


Green - Senator Christopher Garrett of Vermont
Blue - Senator Gary Hart of Colorado
Red - Former Governor Reuben O'Donovan Askew of Florida

Despite a large polling deficit, Garrett's team would remain optimistic. Guaranteed a first-ballot victory at the Democratic National Convention, the Vermonter felt no need to bargain with Hart or Askew in regards to the Vice Presidency. Instead, he chose to make an historic pick, deciding on Congresswoman Patricia Schroeder of Colorado. To the Garrett campaign, the choice made sense on multiple levels. As a Coloradoan, she was in a position to fight in traditionally Republican territory and the very state that Hart himself represented. Her appeal to women was obvious, but it was also hoped that her advocacy on issues such as child-rearing and paid leave for pregnant women could appeal to working families. The only white male of note would be one-term Governor Lawrence Watson of Pennsylvania. While some on Garrett's campaign advocated for him as a solid liberal who had shown appeal to working-class voters in the state, his "demographic status" was unfavorable.
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International What-ifs / Re: How would you have voted? UK on: February 27, 2015, 09:00:38 pm
1979: Conservative
1983: Conservative
1987: Conservative
1992: Conservative
1997: Conservative

2001: Labour
2005: Labour

2010: Liberal Democrat (only adamantly pro-Europe party left really...)

How would being pro-Europe be a good thing? Pro-America is all that matters.

Not everyone is a raving chauvinist.

And while I appreciate the compliment, I'm not sure why you would say such a thing.

You expect a fellow American to only care about the interests of America because nothing else matters.

And, if I'm correct, you perceive my posts as sincere. Strange...
5  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International What-ifs / Re: How would you have voted? UK on: February 27, 2015, 11:30:15 am
1979: Conservative
1983: Conservative
1987: Conservative
1992: Conservative
1997: Conservative

2001: Labour
2005: Labour

2010: Liberal Democrat (only adamantly pro-Europe party left really...)

How would being pro-Europe be a good thing? Pro-America is all that matters.

Not everyone is a raving chauvenist.

*chauvinist.

And while I appreciate the compliment, I'm not sure why you would say such a thing.
6  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1980: No Watergate Election Series (General Election) on: February 26, 2015, 01:05:45 pm
Shouldn't there be some liberal third-party option? John Anderson/Jerry Brown, etc. would've definitely had an opening in this race.
7  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Unfortunate Son on: February 26, 2015, 11:52:06 am
The 1984 Democratic Primaries, Part I

The field the Democratic party assembled to go up against Dole was far from at par. While a number of high-profile Democratic Senators including Ernest Hollings and John Glenn considered runs, the assassination attempt against the President in June, 1983, quickly deterred several strong challengers from being willing to challenge the President. While progressives were clamoring him to run, former Vice Presdient Inouye, intent on avoiding the pitfalls of the Brewer administration, was looking instead to rejoin the Senate, and declined to even explore a candidacy.

It would be fitting that the three most high-profile candidates served as critics of recent Democratic administrations. Christopher Garrett had long stood to the left of Kennedy and Brewer, claiming they were "Republican-lite" and "Dixiecrat-lite", respectively, despite previous support for Kennedy; Reuben Askew, if nominated, would be the most hawkish Democratic nominee since at least Johnson; and Gary Hart was a clear turn from the old "New Deal Coalition" politics, even acting critical of organized labor in a number of cases, something few national Democrats would have dared in the past.

Aside from those three would be a litany of candidates that, at the end of the day, went largely unnoticed. While Reverend Jesse Jackson at first ignited support from black voters, attack ads citing controversial statements, and Garrett's lifelong support for civil rights dating back to the 1950's served to undercut that. The idiosyncratic campaign style of Bruce Babbit, the populist James Traficant, and the feminist former Senator Bella Abzug would fall by the wayside in favor of more appealing candidates.

In Iowa, where the Democratic party was defined by labor, anti-war activists, and rural interests, Christopher Garrett was a perfect fit. In a surprise, former Governor Reuben O'Donovan Askew was able to take second place due to the state's Catholic population, blue collar workers dissatisfied with cultural liberalism, and his appeal to rural voters due to his Southern roots. While Gary Hart was polling well nationally, he would take fourth place due to his choice to not focus on the caucus and the hard work that Congressman Dick Gephardt had put into the state. However, in New Hampshire, the reform-minded Hart bounced back with a large margin of victory despite Garrett coming from the neighboring state of Vermont. On the March 13th round of primaries, each candidate would showcase their regional strength, but it would ultimately prove a draw.


Green - Senator Christopher Garrett of Vermont
Blue - Senator Gary Hart of Colorado
Red - Former Governor Reuben O. Askew of Florida
8  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1992 Election (I'm All Ears) on: February 26, 2015, 10:45:24 am
What led you to choose Mrs. Dole for Bush's Vice President as opposed to Senator Quayle?
9  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Death Penalty Support Poll on: February 26, 2015, 10:43:02 am
I've opposed it the last few years, but I must say, that when I was answering this poll, I felt absolutely no sense of feeling towards the doctrine that led me to oppose it. As well, I've found that the more people I run into that I don't like, the more inclined I am to support capital punishment.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International What-ifs / Re: How would you have voted? UK on: February 26, 2015, 02:42:41 am
1979: Conservative
1983: Conservative
1987: Conservative
1992: Conservative
1997: Conservative

2001: Labour
2005: Labour

2010: Liberal Democrat (only adamantly pro-Europe party left really...)

How would being pro-Europe be a good thing? Pro-America is all that matters.
11  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of this image on: February 26, 2015, 02:16:36 am
And lol at libertarianism being lower than conservatism; at least our ideology is somewhat consistent and doesn't have severe theocratic tinges.

Lol indeed. It depends on your definition of "consistency". Of course, one could claim that libertarianism is consistent as it opposes government "intrusion" in "both" aspects. However, conservatism is entirely consistent along the lines of which basic ideology are drawn: a reliance on tradition as opposed to novel concepts of "liberty". Hahahahahahaha! It's almost as if you haven't taken an introductory political science course! And how are "theocratic tinges" in anyway inferior in terms of ideological quality? At least theocracy is based on something, as opposed to vague secularist values like the level of governmental involvement and such.
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: List of Alternate Presidents on: February 24, 2015, 10:17:27 pm
Nice list, Cathcon.



Thanks, dawg. I had your type of lists in mind when I made it.
13  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: Why is gray not a map color? on: February 24, 2015, 07:51:40 pm
Because it's a focking shade.
14  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update for Everyone III - The Whinge Binge on: February 24, 2015, 07:18:54 pm
Still awaiting my husband's biopsy results. Hooray for February.

Hope everything goes well.

In my world: My workout partner, who's one of my ex-housemates, helped me buy booze today. First time I've paid for alcohol in about two months, and first time grabbing beer with him since July. It was kind of nostalgic, in a way. Currently trying to hunt down someone who's willing to drive with me to get wings or pizza.
15  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What's your French Revolutionary Calendar birthday? on: February 24, 2015, 03:36:51 pm
15 Brumaire CCIV
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: List of Alternate Presidents on: February 24, 2015, 01:16:11 am
A Whole New World
31. William Gibbs McAdoo (Democrat-California) March 4th, 1925-March 4th, 1933
32. Fiorello H. LaGuardia (Labor-New York) March 4th, 1933-January 20th, 1941
33. Charles Lindbergh (America First-Michigan) January 20th, 1941-December 7th, 1941
34. Joseph P. Kennnedy (America First-Massachusetts) December 7th, 1941-January 20th, 1945

34. Fiorello H. LaGuardia (Labor-New York) January 20th, 1945-September 20th, 1947
35. Henry A. Wallace (Labor-Iowa) September 20th, 1947-January 20th, 1949
36. Jasper McLevy (Labor-Connecticut) January 20th, 1949-January 20th, 1953

37. John W. Bricker (American-Ohio) January 20th, 1953-January 20th, 1961
38. Vito Marcantonio (Labor-New York) January 20th, 1961-November 22nd, 1963
39. Ronald Reagan (Labor-California) November 22nd, 1963-January 20th, 1973

40. Robert F. Kennedy (American-Massachusetts) January 20th, 1973-January 20th, 1981
41. Henry M. Jackson (Labor-Washington) January 20th, 1981-March 30th, 1981
42. Bronson La Follette (Labor-Wisconsin) March 30th, 1981-January 20th, 1985

43. Richard M. Nixon (American-California) January 20th, 1985-April 22nd, 1994
44. Patrick J. Buchanan (American-Virginia) April 22nd, 1994-January 20th, 1997

45. Richard Gephardt (Labor-Missouri) January 20th, 1997-September 11th, 2001
46. Rudolph W. Giuliani (Labor-New York) September 11th, 2001-January 20th, 2009

47. Joseph I. Lieberman (American-Connecticut) January 20th, 2009-Present
17  General Discussion / History / Re: Ethnicity of US Presidents on: February 23, 2015, 11:30:55 pm
Isn't there a Wikipedia article on this?
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: 2016=1968 on: February 23, 2015, 11:29:49 pm
This is an awful analogy. I hope you are trolling.
19  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: IT'S MY BIRTHDAY on: February 23, 2015, 03:08:39 pm
Depends on water intake. Usually pretty light except in cases when I drink pop.
20  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: BK and BRTD adventure time on: February 23, 2015, 11:53:59 am
Christ, BRTD's gotten old.
21  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Joe Republic Bureau of Funny Post Archival on: February 23, 2015, 11:53:10 am


As you can see in this rendering, Bushie's weight has ballooned so much that, combined with the loss of his lower limbs to diabetes, he has taken on a rather featureless ball shape sitting upon the shoulders of J-Mann.
22  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Best year of high school on: February 23, 2015, 08:21:54 am
My social position was in a general upward trend throughout high school, so, like any normal human being, it goes Senior>Junior>Sophomore>Freshman. Nevertheless, college has been a vast improvement over that, and I have little contact with my high school classmates these days.
23  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: February 2015 Presidential and Regional Senate Elections on: February 22, 2015, 08:42:55 pm
President:
1. Maxwell/Dallasfan65
2. JCL
3. Bore

Senate:
1. Spiral
2. Windjammer
24  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Unfortunate Son on: February 21, 2015, 11:18:10 pm
The Blessings of Tippecanoe

The economic recovery of the 1980's was to occur during the second part of Dole's first term. While there were continual pressures from moderates in the party to enact more Keynesian policies to boost the economy, especially given Republican losses in the mid-terms (while Republicans were able maintain a strong majority in the Senate, their near-majority in the House of Representatives had been massively set back), Treasury Secretary William E. Simon led the resistance to such efforts. "The administration's policies have been enacted for long-term recovery. What liberals are pushing for would not only disrupt the recovery we have worked hard to orchestrate through reversing our policies, it would confuse the market, making us worse-off than when we started."

However, whatever push-back the Dole administration received from its opponents going into the 1984 Presidential Election would soon be put to rest. On June 20th, 1983, while leaving a Heritage Institute convocation held to discuss the course of "conservative internationalism" in the wake of the Tories' victory in UK's June 1983 parliamentary elections, President Dole was shot three times. El Salvadorian radicals, in protest to the administration's anti-communist policies in Latin America, had attempted to kill the President. The assailants were quickly apprehended, and Dole was rushed to the hospital. Released six days later, the President showed that "communist lead" wouldn't keep him from leading the nation.

Above: President Dole emerged from the hospital with a renewed sense of confidence and vision that would fuel legislative and political success for both him and the Republican party.

The nation's confidence was rejuvenated with Dole's recovery, and it would affect the market. Despite a June 20th dive in stocks, they soared with Dole's release from the hospital. Scholars would debate for years after whether Dole might have fared nearly as well without the assassination attempt. However, that question mattered little to the Grand Old Party at the time. It was with these high spirits that the Republican party entered the year of 1984.

The last six months prior to the election year, the President and Congress saw as productive session. A personal goal of the President was the comprehensive Disabled and Elderly Americans Act, which received wide-ranging support. Not only would prohibitions based on disability be outlawed in a vein similar to 1960's civil rights act, but voting facilities for federal elections would be required to accommodate for handicapped and aging citizens. Bills regarding social security, cable deregulation, and nuclear energy would also be signed into law. In a nod to the administration's ally Barry Goldwater, the Goldwater Defense Reorganization Act would be pushed through Congress, stream-lining the military chain of command. In the wake of an attempted presidential assassination and heightened Cold War tensions, this was seen as particularly paramount to continued United States military success.

The 1984 Democratic Field
The landslide loss in 1980 had prompted serious conversation for change within the Democratic ranks. Senators Paul Tsongas and Gary Hart had become the most prominent crusaders for "New Democrats", promoting centrist, technocratic, and often quirky policies that were hoped to appeal to swing voters, but alienated the Democratic grassroots base. While President Robert F. Kennedy had managed to hold the Democrats together through his brother's popular legacy and straddling the gap between young left-wing voters and moderates, this new breed of centrist lacked the last name necessary for his degree of electoral success. With the monumental losses the party had suffered in 1978 and 1980 and the divisive primary battle President Brewer faced, the party was coming undone. With Senator Tsongas declining to run for re-election due to medical problems, Gary Hart was the obvious choice for the New Democrats.

Above: Senator Gary Hart (D-CO) would be hailed by the media as the most promising contender in the fight between Democrats to unseat Bob Dole. However, his previous association with the Robert F. Kennedy administration would serve to hinder him among voters who wanted a clean break from the 1970's.

However, Hart was hardly a clean candidate. Despite nearly ten years in the Senate, his political ties traced back to his years in the Kennedy administration. While he had nothing to do with later scandals, he suffered from media speculation regarding their association. Meanwhile, the party's left-wing was hardly satisfied. While Robert F. Kennedy had built his political career on the Democrats' activist base, he had upheld few of their aims following his first one hundred days in office. As such, left-wingers were aching for a nominee of their own. The 1980 primary battle had been one last disappointment for their champion, George McGovern. His failed re-election to the Senate in 1974, dismissal as Secretary of State, and what he viewed as a betrayal of values by Democratic primary voters, and the former South Dakota Senator refused another attempt at the presidency.

This left the claim to the title of liberal stalwart in the hands of Senator Christopher Garrett of Vermont. A pioneer for the party in the once solidly Republican Vermont, Garrett had built his career on uphill political battles, rising from the leader of a small Democratic caucus in the Vermont State Senate, to the U.S. House of Representatives, the Vermont Governor's mansion, and finally the U.S. Senate. It was hoped by some that, in a manner similar to George McGovern, he might be positioned to peel off liberal Republicans and fight for voters in rural conservative states.

The third large "big" candidate in the 1984 Democratic primaries would be Reubin Askew, the former Governor of Florida. Dubbed a "candidate without a party", Askew's progressive record on civil rights was, to many liberals, outweighed by his opposition to abortion and to nuclear freeze proposals. An ally of President Brewer, Askew's association with Southern conservative Democrats to many spelled his doom. However, with his perceived ability to fight for votes in the South, Republican states, and Catholic constituencies was seen as a strength by some insiders, and his surprising second place finishes in the first few nationally-observed primary races put him in contention for the nomination.
25  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Unfortunate Son on: February 21, 2015, 10:05:50 pm
"It Ain't the Wedding of the Century, But It'll Do."

Christian Mattingly married Kate McNamara on January 16th, 1981, after they had been dating a little over a year. Shortly after Christmas 1979, their relationship began by attending a friend's New Year's party heading into 1980. It was the most intensely positive feeling the small businessman had felt in a while, and he was loath to see it get away. Kate's cheerful optimism provided a comfortable balance to Mattingly's habitual cynicism in a way that strangely worked, and they were both incredibly sarcastic. While their families were happy for them, few people thought of it as a good decision. The economy, especially the auto industry in which they both made their living, was still in turmoil. While Huron Automotive was getting off the ground with its radical (critics alternated between calling it "predatory" and "parasitic") business policy of buying up closed down "Big Three" factories, there was little guarantee that it would see success. "I like Chris, but Kate's tying herself to ruin. The man's crazy." some tended to say. Meanwhile, Kate's career was by no means secure. General Motors was only a few years off of asking the federal government for a massive loan, and layoffs and restructuring were still frequent. Rumors would start a year later that it was due to the fact that Kate birthed their first child seven months into the marriage. Bryan Patrick Mattingly was born on September 18th, 1981.

Despite the wedding taking place at Shrine of the Little Flower Church on 12 Mile and Woodward in Royal Oak, MI, the ceremony was a humble one due to the couple's lack of finances. The reception was largely BYOB for the same reasons, and there was no grand honeymoon for the newlyweds. An extended weekend in a cottage on Lake Michigan would have to do, given their busy work schedules.

Huron Automotive's business design was based in large part on the hard-working engineering team led by Mattingly's childhood friend Chuck Hurley. While questions were raised as to the wisdom of hiring a group of engineers who were available only through massive layoffs by Detroit's "Big Three", Mattingly would point out in his memoirs that his team had already made what he called "corporate sh#t lists" for designs that were viewed as "too experimental". "The reason America's main automotive corporations were failing was because of the ugly, awful, cheap-yet-expensive, and inefficient designs that they began pioneering in the last third of the 1970's. The team that Chuck put together of corporate rejects was the most competent group of automotive professionals I've ever had the pleasure of working with." Fuel-efficient designs benefited from the oil shocks that Kennedy and his contemporaries had been unable to forestall, and while oil prices began to decline in early 1983, the aesthetic appeal of Huron's designs was able to prevent revenue losses.

However, Mattingly's greatest benefit was the inspiration triggered by his devotion to the company. "Do you seriously think that the lethargic and pessimistic American workforce of the Kennedy recessions was going to act like they did without that bastard at the helm? Well into the late '80's, the company was still paying delayed overtime. Only a leader willing to foresake so much in favor of his company was going to get the type of work out of his employees that allowed the company to succeed." Accusations during his first presidential campaign that he was a neglectful father and husband would come to haunt him. The fact that Kate had to leave the auto industry to become a mother was another source of personal angst for Mattingly. While these would be regrets that he lived with for much of his life, he would continue to rationalize that any children he fathered would have had nowhere near the opportunity that he had afforded them without the sacrifices he made. The press would not be the only source of criticism over his frequent absence during his first-born's formative years. "You think I didn't want to be there, you little sh#t!? Did you want to be raised in a focking trailer park with a laid-off factory worker sh#t dad? Your mother already had to give up her career to raise you, how about we be on welfare like every other person that didn't have the drive to haul themselves up? I scratched to survive since you grandfather died, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be shamed for granting you chances I never had!"

Needless to say, the early 1980's were an incredibly stressful period for the newly formed Mattingly family. Nevertheless, by 1984, with a stabilizing economy and solid growth for Huron Automotive in the wake of reduced foreign competition and the Big Three struggling to catch up, the family was on firmer financial footing. It was with the interests of himself, his family, and his business that he proudly cast a vote to re-elect President Bob Dole.
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