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25801  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: World Leaders Survivor - Bracket 5 (Round 30) on: July 15, 2005, 05:38:48 am
Fischer
25802  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rehnquist: I'm Not Retiring on: July 15, 2005, 04:57:32 am
As I have said before, Rehnquist will die in office. He already has one foot in the grave. Might as well stay.

He has said he wants to break the record for longest sitting judge.

He has to make it to August 2008. to beat William Orville Douglas's record.

25803  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Wilson to CNN: Wife not undercover when outed on: July 15, 2005, 04:46:35 am
1. She may have gone back to being undercover at a later date
2. Her "company" was outted too, hurting other undercover agents.
25804  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 06:54:01 pm
I seriously wondering if Joe Wilson might not have tipped someone off.

I wonder who talked to the NYT reporter.  Rove has repeatedly said anyoen he talked to does not need to protect him as a confidential source.  He has even signed documents releasing them from any confidentiality agreements.

So, who told the New York Times?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is important.

Rove

Fact: Rove has signed a release waiving confidentiality over the whole Plame affair.  Any reorter who spoke to him about it is free to talk to the judge, special investigator, other reporters or you without worrying about breaking a promise of confidentiality given to Karl Rove.

Fact: NYT reporter Judith Millier is still refusing to say who her source was due to a promise of confidentiality.

Conclusion:  Rove was not her source.

Fact: You never admit defeat
25805  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Hillary Launches Re-election Website on: July 14, 2005, 04:14:03 pm
Were I running against her, I would focus on her Presidential ambitions. Ask her to promise to serve out her term if elected, etc. Won't beat her but in combination with a decent campaign maybe it could keep her under 60. Certainly the carpetbagger approach won't work.

She said she'd serve out her first term, and no one believed her. Now if she doesn't promise the same, no one will care.
25806  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Hillary Launches Re-election Website on: July 14, 2005, 03:53:07 pm
As of 2006, she'll have been in NY for over 7 years.

Since she was sworn in in January 2001, how would she be a Senator for over seven years in 2006?

Lived in NY, not been Senator.

I misread. Didn't she move to NY in early 2000? It's still not over seven years.  Tongue

Middle of 1999.
25807  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Hillary Launches Re-election Website on: July 14, 2005, 03:50:48 pm
As of 2006, she'll have been in NY for over 7 years.

Since she was sworn in in January 2001, how would she be a Senator for over seven years in 2006?

Lived in NY, not been Senator.
25808  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Hillary Launches Re-election Website on: July 14, 2005, 03:48:23 pm
I saw Cox on CNN and all he talked about was how Hillary's a carpetbagger.  that won't work not if it didn't work in 2000.

It's better than attacking her for being a liberal.

Arguable.  25% of people would go for that anti-liberal talk, maybe 30%.  It's a big question mark when you go carpetbagger, the amount of people that care could be very low and you risk getting blown out really badly.

No one cares about the carpetbagging. That Senate Seat went to a carpetbagger in 1964, 1970, and 2000. As of 2006, she'll have been in NY for over 7 years.  Pataki is really unpopular upstate, which will likely translate into votes for Hillary.
25809  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Canada's Liberals trying to ban Google on: July 14, 2005, 03:37:34 pm
Sounds like a straw man argument.
25810  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Hillary Launches Re-election Website on: July 14, 2005, 03:33:03 pm
I expect Hillary to win 65-33 or so.
25811  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: WSJ Today: 109th Congress "a bust" on: July 14, 2005, 03:32:01 pm

Funny how the articles don't weigh as heavily on the Democrats in Congress as it does Republicans . . . because you can't have one without the other.

But that's the old addage:  If Pro = good, and Con = bad, what's the opposite of PROgress?

The Republicans control both houses of Congress now, so yes the article should focus on them more. The Dems usually aren't given the opportunity to have their proposed legislation discussed.

Yet they do not have the super majority it would take to make the Democrats less insignificant than they are currently as the minority, so yes, the Democrats to have to carry some of the burden.  While a few Democrats are willing to "work with" the Republicans, they have primarily taken the role of obstructionist.  While that is sometimes a good thing on bad legislation, it's a bad thing on most legislation.

The Republicans have gotten almost everything through that their party supports. The Democratic party should not bend over backwards for you far-right extremists. Your party has had quite a bit of power for the last few years, and it shows how immature your party is when all they can do is blame Democrats. Give the government back to the grown ups.
25812  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: weirdest President on: July 14, 2005, 02:37:35 pm
Some other weird ones:

Jackson
Grant
Cleveland
25813  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: WSJ Today: 109th Congress "a bust" on: July 14, 2005, 02:32:06 pm

Funny how the articles don't weigh as heavily on the Democrats in Congress as it does Republicans . . . because you can't have one without the other.

But that's the old addage:  If Pro = good, and Con = bad, what's the opposite of PROgress?

The Republicans control both houses of Congress now, so yes the article should focus on them more. The Dems usually aren't given the opportunity to have their proposed legislation discussed.

Republicans can't help but blame Democrats for their own failures.
25814  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 02:22:58 pm
I seriously wondering if Joe Wilson might not have tipped someone off.

I wonder who talked to the NYT reporter.  Rove has repeatedly said anyoen he talked to does not need to protect him as a confidential source.  He has even signed documents releasing them from any confidentiality agreements.

So, who told the New York Times?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is important.

Rove
25815  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Republicans Only -House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's performance on: July 14, 2005, 12:10:50 pm
The 3 people who voted yes obviously don't care about scandals.
25816  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 12:07:35 pm
Valerie Plame was covert.

The CIA says: "If she was not undercover, we would have no reason to file a criminal referral".

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?ts=1&display=rednews/2003/10/01/build/nation/25-leak.inc

Any more grand treason apoligist talking points?

Your link isn't working, and it's not "grand treason." 

The link works fine, and I love how the new talking points are to argue anything that can change the argument from Rove outted covert CIA agent Plame.
25817  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: New SurveyUSA Governors approval polls - July on: July 14, 2005, 11:15:03 am
17%... LOL.  I'd be laughing if we didn't have another 18 months of him.

He is truly a patriot with a 17-76 rating. Wink
25818  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: 3 senators you like from the opposite party? on: July 14, 2005, 11:13:00 am
 Chafee
25819  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 10:47:04 am
Valerie Plame was covert.

The CIA says: "If she was not undercover, we would have no reason to file a criminal referral".

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?ts=1&display=rednews/2003/10/01/build/nation/25-leak.inc

Any more grand treason apoligist talking points?
25820  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 10:35:08 am
CIA 'outing' might fall short of crime

Quote
In The Politics of Truth, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

Six years later, in July 2003, the name of the CIA officer Valerie Plame was revealed by columnist Robert Novak.

This is the best indication we have so far that Plame was not covert at the time of the leak and, more importantly, that she had not been covert for six years prior to the leak (the law sets five years as the protected period).

Quote
"Unless she was really stationed abroad sometime after their marriage," she wasn't a covert agent protected by the law, says Bruce Sanford, an attorney who helped write the 1982 act that protects covert agents' identities.
...
...Victoria Toensing, another of the attorneys who helped draft the 1982 act. Like Sanford, she doubts Valerie Wilson, as she now refers to herself, qualified as a "covert agent" under that law. She and Sanford also doubt Fitzgerald has enough evidence to prosecute anyone under the Espionage Act.

How do you know that she wasn't covert more recently?

Because Wilson basicly said so:
Quote
The column's date is important because the law against unmasking the identities of U.S. spies says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say. Wilson's book makes numerous references to the couple's life in Washington over the six years up to July 2003.

Her value as a covert operative died when she married Wilson.  Being married to a former ambassador and member of Clinton's national security team isn't exactly low-profile.

Basically said so? She's covert CIA. She doesn't have to tell your sorry asses exactly what she's done.
25821  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 10:19:34 am
His attorney is obviosuly going to try & put the best face on this whole situation, we will see what happens, but the bottom line is he did release information regarding an undercover CIA agent & that goes against what the administration was syaing prior to this revelation

She was not undercover at the time she sent her husband to Africa, but rather an analyst for the CIA on WMDs.  She had worked undercover in the 1990s.

She was absolutely under-cover when she was outed.

Quote
Although Time reporter Matthew Cooper has indicated Rove did not specifically name Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame,  during their conversation, Wilson said: "My wife's name is Mrs. Joseph Wilson. It is Mrs. Valerie Wilson. He named her. He identified her ... so that argument doesn't stand the smell test.

Joe Wilson has, from the very beginning, insisted that Rove named his wife.  There is still no indication that he did.  It is also curious that Wilson immediately named Rove as the source of the leak.  What information about the leak did Wilson have when the story broke?

Wilson's statement above is an argument that "doesn't stand the smell test".  Is he actually claiming that his wife's cover identity consisted of her taking her husband's name when she married him?  If so, then MODU is right, no wonder we have such intelligence problems!

I believe there was a whistleblower.
25822  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 10:17:06 am
CIA 'outing' might fall short of crime

Quote
In The Politics of Truth, former ambassador Joseph Wilson writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse, a reading of the book indicates, was again stationed overseas. They appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

Six years later, in July 2003, the name of the CIA officer Valerie Plame was revealed by columnist Robert Novak.

This is the best indication we have so far that Plame was not covert at the time of the leak and, more importantly, that she had not been covert for six years prior to the leak (the law sets five years as the protected period).

Quote
"Unless she was really stationed abroad sometime after their marriage," she wasn't a covert agent protected by the law, says Bruce Sanford, an attorney who helped write the 1982 act that protects covert agents' identities.
...
...Victoria Toensing, another of the attorneys who helped draft the 1982 act. Like Sanford, she doubts Valerie Wilson, as she now refers to herself, qualified as a "covert agent" under that law. She and Sanford also doubt Fitzgerald has enough evidence to prosecute anyone under the Espionage Act.

How do you know that she wasn't covert more recently? Plus, her covert company was outted too. I really hope you're not condoning what Rove did.
25823  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: New SurveyUSA Governors approval polls - July on: July 14, 2005, 10:12:58 am
I'm sure with only 600 sampled the MoE is high and the number of junk polls is higher. Any that have moved 3 or more points without good reason (ie, not Pawlenty) are the crap polls.

They're not crap, they just have a large MOE. Unless you're J.J. you should understand the difference.
25824  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Arnold had a 61% disapproval rating before this latest scandal broke on: July 14, 2005, 10:12:08 am
Hasta la vista, Arnold.

Quote
Two days before he was sworn into office, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger accepted a consulting job paying an estimated $8 million over five years to "further the business objectives" of a national publisher of health and bodybuilding magazines.

The contract pays Schwarzenegger 1% of the magazines' advertising revenue, much of which comes from makers of nutritional supplements. Last year, the governor vetoed legislation that would have imposed government regulations on the supplement industry.

According to records filed Wednesday with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Schwarzenegger entered into the agreement with a subsidiary of American Media Inc. on Nov. 15, 2003. The Boca Raton, Fla.-based company publishes Muscle & Fitness and Flex magazines, among others.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-governor14jul14,0,2776728.story?coll=la-home-headlines
25825  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: If the source, should Rove be jailed? on: July 14, 2005, 07:34:03 am
His attorney is obviosuly going to try & put the best face on this whole situation, we will see what happens, but the bottom line is he did release information regarding an undercover CIA agent & that goes against what the administration was syaing prior to this revelation

She was not undercover at the time she sent her husband to Africa, but rather an analyst for the CIA on WMDs.  She had worked undercover in the 1990s.

She was absolutely under-cover when she was outed.
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