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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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25801  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: A Kennedy challenge to Kerry? on: July 05, 2005, 07:06:58 pm
Not happening.
25802  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What's the maximum anyone should have to pay in income taxes? on: July 05, 2005, 07:05:39 pm
I'd say 65% would be a good top tax bracket. Of course it wouldn't kick in until around $10 million or so.
25803  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bush campaign paid millions to dirty trickster Sproul on: July 05, 2005, 07:04:13 pm
Um, registering voters as Republicans does absolutely nothing to help them win elections. All it affects is what party you vote in for primary elections.

Paying money to an organization to register people is not a 'crook' thing to do.

Granted, but shreding Democratic forms is.

Actually it isn't.  As a private citizen, neither you, I or this guy has any requirement to do anything with voter registration forms, including throwing them out.

Keep in mind that voter registration can be done via mail or at any government office (post, welfare, some libraries).  Anyone can get one; they don't even charge postage.

As for "re-registering," big deal.  You can register Nazi and go in and vote for Kerry in the fall.

Busted again. It's illegal to take completed voter registration forms and not turn them in. This wasn't a private individual, they "appeared" to be non-partisan and were signing people up in public libraries. How nice of you to condone this.

And once the story broke, it was too late, Nevada's and Oregon's deadlines had already passed.
25804  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bush campaign paid millions to dirty trickster Sproul on: July 05, 2005, 06:35:11 pm
Does every Democrat condone the fact that so many dead people voted for Kennedy in Chicago?
We're talking about 2004, not 1960.

Quote
If they were registering Democrats as Republicans, they were obviously trying to lie to the Bush campaign.

That was some other stuff they did, I suppose you don't want to talk about the illegal registration shreading?
25805  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bush campaign paid millions to dirty trickster Sproul on: July 05, 2005, 06:29:19 pm
His organizations pretended to be non-partisan, and were signing people up in libraries. However, the Democratic registrations got shreaded, and the news didn't break until after the registration deadline. Do you Republicans actually condone this? Are you all a bunch of unethical crooks?
25806  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Bush campaign paid millions to dirty trickster Sproul on: July 05, 2005, 06:04:02 pm
His organizations illegally shreaded Democratic voter registrations.

Quote

In the months before the 2004 presidential election, a firm called Sproul & Associates launched voter registration drives in at least eight states, most of them swing states. The group--run by Nathan Sproul, former head of the Arizona Christian Coalition and the Arizona Republican Party--had been hired by the Republican National Committee.

Sproul got into a bit of trouble last fall when, in certain states, it came out that the firm was playing dirty tricks in order to suppress the Democratic vote: concealing their partisan agenda, tricking Democrats into registering as Republicans, surreptitiously re-registering Democrats and Independents as Republicans, and shredding Democratic registration forms.

The scandal got a moderate amount of local coverage in some states--and then the election was over. Now anyone who brought up Nathan Sproul, or any of the other massive crimes and improprieties committed on or prior to Election Day, was shrugged off as a dealer in "conspiracy theory."

It seems that Sproul did quite a lot of work for the Republicans. Exactly how much did he do? More specifically, how much did the RNC pay Sproul & Associates?

If you went online last week to look up how much money Sproul received from the Republicans in 2004, you would have found that, according to the party (whose figures had been posted by the Center for Responsive Politics), the firm was paid $488,957.

In fact, the RNC paid Sproul a great deal more than that. From an independent study of the original data filed by the Republicans with the Federal Election Commission, it is clear that Sproul was paid a staggering $8.3 million for its work against the Democrats.

http://baltimorechronicle.com/070505Miller-Irmus.shtml


Republicans: They're all a bunch of crooks.
25807  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rove outted Plame - grand treason on: July 05, 2005, 05:57:51 pm
1. That's not the article I linked to
2. That article is certainly not saying Rove is innocent

1.  Never said it was the article you linked to.  I referred to the article in my link as proof that anyone, even a Bush basher, who takes time to read the evidence presented so far, can not clearly conclude that Rove is being accused as the one who revealed her name.
2.  Nor did I say that Rove is innocent.  I am simply saying that people are putting words into these reporters mouths that the evidence does not yet support.

(The article you linked to does not provide any evidence that Rove is the leaker.  It is simply speculation)


It's not speculation, did you read it? It talks about emails.
25808  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Social Issues have really helped the Democrats on: July 05, 2005, 05:55:04 pm
1976
Carter beats Ford 50.08%-48.02% nationwide

CA: Ford beats Carter 49.35%-47.57%, winning several bay area counties
VT: Ford beats Carter 54.34%-43.14%, winning every county in the state


2004
Bush beats Kerry 50.73-48.27% nationwide

CA: Kerry beats Bush 54.31%-44.36%, winning every bay area county, landsliding most of them
VT: Kerry beats Bush 58.94%-38.80%, just a couple hundred votes away from winning every county in the state
25809  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Who do you think Bush appoints? on: July 05, 2005, 05:49:09 pm
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm hoping for Albreto Gonzales.  He is the most moderate realistic appointment by Bush.  I have a feeling it will be a nut at first though, like Luttig, and the Dems may not have enough seats to block the nomination with the 'nuclear option' the Republicans can enact to override a filibuster.

It's a sad day when the pro-torture guy is the most moderate.
25810  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rove outted Plame - grand treason on: July 05, 2005, 05:46:31 pm
All I have heard is that Rove talked with the reporter...I have yet to hear or see any evidence stating that Rove revealed her identity.

Have I missed some info?

Yeah, try reading the article.

I did read the article...why don't you try reading lessons.

Even David Corn, a noted Bush basher, agrees with me:

"O'Donnell's comment and Isikoff's report set off a wave of reaction. I received numerous emails proclaiming 'Rove is it, he's the [deleted] who revealed Plame's identity.' But a careful reading of the available facts leads to this unsatisfying conclusion: not so fast. "

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=4581

1. That's not the article I linked to
2. That article is certainly not saying Rove is innocent
25811  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Why not nominate Ann Coulter? on: July 05, 2005, 05:26:19 pm
Ann Coulter is brilliant and has a wealth of insightful and intelligent views and writings to her credit.

What universe are you in?
25812  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Rove outted Plame - grand treason on: July 05, 2005, 05:24:51 pm
All I have heard is that Rove talked with the reporter...I have yet to hear or see any evidence stating that Rove revealed her identity.

Have I missed some info?

Yeah, try reading the article.
25813  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Patriotism on: July 05, 2005, 04:40:32 am
Teddy Roosevelt had it right.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

The problem is that most of people using the word think it's ok that Bush ignored repeated warnings that Al Qaeda might attack the US (and don't forget that they already attack the World Trade Center, in 1993), and then he started a war for no good reason. It's been completely corrupted.
25814  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Patriotism on: July 05, 2005, 04:37:50 am
These last 4 years have made "Patriotism" a bad word.

How exactly?

That everyone who has ever criticized Bush has been called "un-patriotic" for the last 4 years. Patriotic is now a loaded word here. MSNBC just today called Bush protestors un-patriotic.
25815  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Current Senator Approval Ratings on: July 05, 2005, 04:33:11 am
Already been posted, but it's always nice to see Obama destroying Cornyn.
25816  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Roe v. Wade by overturned? on: July 05, 2005, 04:31:16 am
I think the 2008 election will determine whether Roe is overturned.  I don't think anyone thinks Stevens will make it passed the year 2012.  I think he is most likely to be replaced by whoever wins in 2008.

In 2012, Ginsberg will be 79, Scalia will be 76, Kennedy will be 76, Breyer will be 74, Souter will be 73.  I think they're all most likely to be replaced by whoever ins in 2008.

O'Connor's replacement, and Rehnquist's replacement presumably, will be on the Court for many years let's assume.

Only Thomas will still be on the Court after 2012 of all the current Judges for sure.

This means that whoever wins in 2008 will replace the liberal Ginsberg, Breyer, Stephens, and Souter, the moderate Kennedy, and the conservative Scalia.  Either Hillary Clinton gets to secure another generation of liberal Supreme Court decisions or George Allen gets to return the Constiution to the pre-Griswold v Connecticut form.  High stakes boys and girls.

If Bush "I'm uniter, not a divider" hadn't become President, we wouldn't have these levels of political polarization.
25817  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Do you support the military draft? on: July 05, 2005, 04:28:09 am
Hey, both of Taft 1912 states have 73% opposition to the draft.
25818  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Patriotism on: July 05, 2005, 02:58:03 am
Patriotism is by and large a good thing... Nationalism on the other hand is by and large a bad thing.

Perhaps oversimplified, but it's what I tend to think

These last 4 years have made "Patriotism" a bad word.
25819  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Liberals Ready to Abandon Abortion as an Issue on: July 05, 2005, 02:56:01 am

Is being called a "bigot" by a social darwinist a compliment, btw?

Do you always call people to the left of you on economic issues social darwinists?
25820  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Why should I vote Republican? on: July 05, 2005, 02:15:51 am
I think one reason to vote GOP is to protect traditional values.  If you want to keep "under God" in the pledge of allegiance at your kids school, if you want to end taxpayer funded condom distribution in public schools to your 14 year old son, if you want strong anti-drug policies, etc. then vote Republican.

Your general direction seems to be that Republicans aren't there for you on financial issues, and people in that position shouldn't vote Republican because of the culture.  But you can't put a price tag on living in a country where you feel comfortable with your kids walking down the street and not being mugged by a heroin addict whose going to shoot up with government funded needles from the needle exchange program.

I think the response is that a stronger culture, even if you agree with the GOP on social issues, won't pay the bills.  This is true, but neither does welfare if you're making $40,000.  I'd imagine that your family doesn't qualify for Medicaid, Food Stamps, AFDC/TANF, or any of the other social programs that are supposed to make things easier for people like you and your family.  Big government had its chance, and it didn't come through.  People like your dad keep paying huge sums in taxation for benefits they never see.  He's at an age where he can't even count on Social Security and Medicare being there for him.  Maybe a stronger culture doesn't pay the bills, but apparently welfare doesn't either.

I'd also say the war on terror is a reason to vote GOP, but I don't even know where your parents stand on that issue.

"Traditional values"? The same people who were against inter-racial marriage because it "wasn't traditional" are now against gay marriage because "it's not traditional".

Democratic Presidents are much better than Republican Presidents at creating jobs.

I would suggest voting against anyone who ignored the 8/06/01 imminent attack by Al Qaeda on US soil memo.

Name ONE national Republican who opposes inter racial marriage.

At what point did anyone say anything about job creation?

You 9/11 memo claim has already been refuted many times.

It's the same people making the same arguments. Public opinion on inter-racial marriage has gotten to the point where it's a seriously losing issue, so they're mum about it now.

Jobs are kind of useful, you know.

What specificially has been refured about the 8/06/01 memo titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US"?
25821  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Your Dream and Realistic 2012 matchup on: July 05, 2005, 01:50:53 am
Dream: The Great John Conyers / The Pretty Great Russ Feingold vs. George HW Bush / Jeb Bush
25822  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Iranian President = Terorrist! on: July 05, 2005, 01:46:46 am
Iranian nationalism is surging apparantly.

Bush always said he was a uniter.
25823  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which of the following should be legal, PART 2 on: July 05, 2005, 01:14:08 am
Hate speech legislation- NO
Hate crimes legislation- NO
Flag burning - YES
Group sex - YES
Sodomy - YES
Gay adoptions - YES
Tattoos - YES
Adult stem cell research - YES
Embryonic stem cell research - YES
Emergency contraception - YES
Partial birth abortion - YES, TO SAVE LIFE OF WOMAN
Live birth abortion - NO
25824  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which of the following should be legal, PART 2 on: July 05, 2005, 12:32:44 am
Look at some of the answers others posted and people call me a wingnut. Roll Eyes
well, what's your stand?

See the last page.  Smiley

Hate speech legislation--No
Hate crimes legislation--No
Flag burning--No
Group sex--undecided, lean no
Sodomy--see above
Gay adoptions--HELL NO
Tattoos--Yes, why not?
Adult stem cell research--Yes
Embryonic stem cell research--No
Emergency contraception--No
Partial birth abortion--No
Live birth abortion--No


So you are "leaning" toward saying that I should be thrown in jail if I have a 3-way and do cunnilingus on the girls. That's a wingnut.

Ditto for his HELL NO on gay adoption. That's prety wingy.
25825  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Bob Casey vs. Rick Santorum on: July 05, 2005, 12:19:40 am
Putting the 1992 Casey DNC myth to rest. Please don't use debunked right-wing talking points.

Quote
Casey was denied speaking time in 1992 over his refusal to endorse the Clinton-Gore ticket, not his anti-abortion views. Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, Sens. John Breaux (D-LA) and Howell Heflin (D-AL), and five other governors who opposed abortion rights did address the convention in 1992, as detailed in a September 16, 1996, article in The New Republic on the Casey myth.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200504110002
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