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May 28, 2015, 05:22:14 pm
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1  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Cory Gardner's Crusade to Ban Condoms Continues on: Today at 05:19:28 pm
Torie, few, if any, insurers cover OTC drugs so it's hardly fair to blame Obamacare for that provision.
2  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: Today at 04:58:05 pm
The impression I get from reading Paul is that he uses pneuma-sarx to frame his argument in a form easily digestible by his Greek speaking audience. Had he been writing in Chinese instead I think he'd have used yin-yang for the same purposes, tho it would be just as wrong to overidentify his views as aligning with a strict interpretation of Daoist philosophy. Paul is not Mani, nor is he a Gnostic. I'll grant that many Christians do take a strongly dualistic view of Paul's writings, but I don't agree. It's a mistake to read into Paul concepts that weren't fully developed until after him.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Why is SSM such a big deal? on: Today at 09:38:19 am
If two gays kissing non-gratuitously in a restaurant is flaunting their homosexuality, did my wife and I flaunt our heterosexuality?
Yes, tho most places, yet not all, tolerate such flaunting.

If two straight people kiss in Chelsea or the Castro, nobody is going to scream at them or attack them.  That could absolutely happen to two gay people in many, many places around America.
I wasn't thinking of that.  Rather I was thinking of places where those in charge don't want any sexual flaunting, either homo or hetero.
4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Why is SSM such a big deal? on: Today at 09:29:40 am
If two gays kissing non-gratuitously in a restaurant is flaunting their homosexuality, did my wife and I flaunt our heterosexuality?
Yes, tho most places, yet not all, tolerate such flaunting.
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / MOVED: What should we do as far as immigration? on: Today at 09:27:44 am
This topic has been moved to Political Debate.

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=213601.0
6  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 27, 2015, 11:28:57 pm
You could argue that references to "the flesh" and "the spirit" are metaphorical, but it seems to me that the only reason that you would is if you were attempting to reconcile an attachment to mainstream Christianity with an aversion to dualism.
Adoptionism is hardly mainstream Christianity.  Nor do I see "death" as something that happens only to the flesh.
7  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Where would 'Little England" Be? on: May 27, 2015, 11:11:40 pm
I wouldn't take much stock it that map. It greatly underestimates the amount of English in the South, because they generally call themselves "Americans" in ancestry surveys.
Yes and no. The Southern colonies were more eclectic in their white immigrants than is generally realized.  South Carolina was settled by Germans, Scots-Irish, and French Hugenots among others. Pretty much any non-Catholic white, including Jews, were welcomed.
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Death penalty repeal passes Nebraska legislature on: May 27, 2015, 10:56:49 pm
Not really, CCSF.  Keep in mind that the Unicameral is officially nonpartisan and thus so is its primary. It does help to make the Unicameral more moderate than it otherwise would be given the Republican tilt of the State. I really doubt that making wasting money trying to reimplement the death penalty will be that much of an advantage in the primary.  It already had been more than a decade since Nebraska's last execution.  Also, back in 2008, the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled electrocution was unconstitutional under the Nebraska constitution, so when combined with the fact that lethal injection is on its way to oblivion in this country thanks to the efforts of abolitionists, any attempt at reviving the death penalty in Nebraska is going to face the problem of what method to use.
9  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What is the ad at the top of your page? on: May 27, 2015, 10:40:54 pm
Meet Thai Women

Congratulations, opebo!
10  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Mass arrests at FIFA on: May 27, 2015, 02:07:34 pm
Just goes to show that it's useful to have a country that likes football but doesn't worship it.
11  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 27, 2015, 01:38:35 pm
I reviewed those verses, and I still think you are taking them too literally and ignoring the metaphorical meaning that becomes clear if you take a look at the whole of those epistles rather than selected passages in isolation

Also, it is made quite clear in the gospels that Jesus' resurrection was physical, otherwise why the need to have his apostles touch him and eat with him? (Thomas gets unfairly singled out as a doubter, as they all doubted until they beheld the resurrected Christ.)

Rather than transcendence to a purely spiritual being, I view the resurrection was the final step in the unification of the Human and Divine natures in Jesus Christ which opened the Way to our own individual theosis. I can see why some would have a problem with that view as it is fairly dependent upon Adoptionism to make sense.
12  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 27, 2015, 08:32:16 am
Although the term "universalism" has numerous meanings I am aware of only one definition
of universal salvation, and that is that everyone will eventually go to heaven.
Even those who would rather not be there? An eternity in heaven would be hell for a Buddhist. Forcing everyone to go to heaven is a violation of free will and my beliefs include that the Divine places a high value on free will.
13  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: How to Overturn Roe v. Wade on: May 27, 2015, 06:47:23 am
I should just start linking this thread to people who think Democrats should throw away the 2016 presidential election to win a couple House seats or something.
To be fair, Roe being fully overturned would be a boost to their electoral prospects at the State level.
14  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Would the ERA have had an even tougher time today than it did in the 1970s? on: May 27, 2015, 12:30:48 am
Frodo, I'm underwhelmed by those arguments.  They assume that mere words can substitute for political will. I also was looking for a specific piece of legislation that either would promote equal rights by would not be constitutional without the ERA or one that works against the intent of the ERA yet would would be constitutional without the ERA.  Also, the Right to Vote Amendment's main purpose is to end the felon disenfranchisement that currently is allowed, so it doesn't merely  enshrine current rights, but adds to them, thus making it unlike the ERA.
15  General Discussion / History / Re: Benjamin Franklin - would he have made a good President? on: May 27, 2015, 12:11:56 am
Maybe if he'd been elected ten or twenty years earlier. By 1789, he was in his 80s and dying of old age.
16  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: One person, one vote: SCOTUS to tell us what it means on: May 26, 2015, 11:58:24 pm
What do our legal experts think the result here would be?

Who knows?  I think people are overlooking the possibility that the court took the case to explicitly set the standard as a person is a person, even if they are ineligible to be a voter, but I don't think we'll have idea of what they are thinking until at least oral arguments. If I had to guess, it would be to establish a standard of redistricting according to the apportionment population living there, but might allow for states to use a different definition of what counts as apportionment population for state or local districts than what is used for Federal apportionment.
17  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 26, 2015, 11:10:54 pm
And last but not least, Pauline Christianity gets a bad rap thanks to the Deutero-Pauline epistles rather than anything Paul himself had a hand in writing or causing to be written.

Which of Paul's epistles do you consider questionable? Because the flesh is condemned in Romans and Galatians, too.

I take it you refer to Romans 6:12 among other passages.  That passage often gets over translated with the translator choosing a narrower meaning than was originally the case so as to serve a particular viewpoint. The NIV (among other translations) is especially bad in that regard, translating ἐπιθυμία as "evil desires" when it should be translated as simply "desires".  It is not as as if one would translate Luke 22:15 as "And He said to them, I have evilly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer" despite using the same Greek word to express the concept of desire.  Romans 1:28 makes it clear that Paul thinks that the mind can be evil and the list of sins given in Romans 1:29-30 includes both sins of the mind and of the body.  In Romans 12:5, Paul speaks of Christians as being the body of Christ. Did he mean that Christians are evil?

While Paul does make use of the metaphorical spirit/flesh = good/evil theme elsewhere in Romans, the entirety of Romans indicates that its author was using because of the limitations of human language and thus resorted to what would have been a commonly understood metaphor to whose who heard the epistle at that time.

As for Galatians, I presume you are referring to Galatians 4:21-31.  Yet there it is fairly clear that flesh is being used as a metaphor for Man in contrast to spirit for God, just as in those same verses, maidservants are metaphorically identified with Man and freewomen with God, yet I doubt anyone would argues that slaves are all evil or that freemen are all good.

As for the authorship of the Pauline Epistles, I accept the core seven that most critical scholars think Paul wrote as definitely Paul's: Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Philemon. Colossians and Ephesians are probably Pauline, tho possibly with interpolations, especially Ephesians which was almost certainly an encyclical letter. That they were written at the behest of Paul rather than by Paul himself is also possible. 2 Thessalonians I'm unsure of and the Pastoral epistles I think are pretty clearly Deutero-Pauline.
18  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: How to Overturn Roe v. Wade on: May 26, 2015, 10:00:04 pm
Doubtful that even if the GOP wins the White House in 2016 that Roe gets overturned any time soon.  I don't see either Kennedy or Roberts going for an explicit overturn, tho both may be amenable to further restrictions to abortion. Pro-life advocates probably need to replace three of the liberal justices to have a chance of getting Roe overturned since it's likely at least one of the three would have sufficient respect for precedent to make them not support an outright overturn.
19  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 26, 2015, 04:07:58 pm
True Federalist,

Do you believe in universal salvation?
Tell me what you mean, and I'll tell you. (I'm not being facetious, there are several different, tho related, meanings to that term.) Certainly, access to salvation is universal, even for those who never had access to Christian teachings while alive, or adopted them while living. At a minimum, they hear them after their life when Jesus descended to the dead. I view God, and by extension both Heaven and Sheol, as existing outside the linear time we humans experience.

Also, I think that those who hold to Christian exclusivism have missed the mark by being too literal. When Christ spoke of not getting to the Father except thru him, he spoke metaphorically (there's probably some better literary term than metaphor, but I can't think of it right now) referring to the Way he exemplifies. Yet while few will find the Way on their own, necessitating guides such as Jesus, he doesn't say he's the only one to find the Way. (As you might have guessed by the way I capitalize Way, I also include Daoism in my worldview.)

(I'll reply to Mopsus later when I have time.)
20  Questions and Answers / Presidential Election Process / Re: 269-269 EC with 50-50 Senate on: May 26, 2015, 11:40:10 am
Yeah, the Veep doesn't get to vote.  Not only that, but if there is a Senate vacancy, it still requires 51 Senators.  50-49 doesn't cut it. (The same's true in the House.  It takes 26 States positively voting for someone, even if some States are tied or not voting.)

I always assumed that if the 2000 election was challenged and there was a party line vote, Gore would have gotten to cast the tie breaking vote for his running mate.
If there was a motion on whether to accept the votes cast by Florida's electors, then Gore could have broken a tie on that motion, since it would be an ordinary vote of the Senate,  But in the contingent election of a Vice President, he would have had no role except to preside.
21  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pensions and Politics Fuel Crisis in Illinois on: May 26, 2015, 11:30:56 am
Federal Territory of Illinois. Looking forward to it.
There's not any provision for a U.S. State to go the Newfoundland route.
22  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: did Jesus go to Jerusalem intending to die? on: May 26, 2015, 11:26:43 am
Some believe Jesus the body was created by the demiurge because the demiurge became aware of the Father's intention to send spiritual Christ to redeem mankind.
Ugh. Gnosticism. One of the most depressing and illogical philosophies ever thought of.

Why? Because it takes mind/body dualism to its logical conclusion? In that case, Gnostic Christianity is more logical than Pauline Christianity, not less.
Because the idea that creation is inherently flawed is depressing and the idea that a supreme goodness would not have been able to undo the demiurge's creation before it even got a chance to cause trouble is illogical.,  Nor is the idea that the body is inherently flawed what I would call a logical conclusion.  And last but not least, Pauline Christianity gets a bad rap thanks to the Deutero-Pauline epistles rather than anything Paul himself had a hand in writing or causing to be written.
23  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Favorite University Series: Indiana edition on: May 26, 2015, 11:20:18 am
Anyone but Notre Dame.

That sounds like something Our Dear Friend, and good Catholic hater Bushie would say.

Heck I'd say it, and I'm not anti-Catholic, just anti-Irish.  I'm the sort who roots for whoever they are playing and doubly so when they play Syracuse, just to irritate them.
24  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: B.B. King dead at 89. on: May 26, 2015, 11:17:19 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-32881351

King's kids claim that their father was poisoned by his business managers.  Sigh.  Unfortunately, the sniping over the assets King left behind has already begun, and no one but the lawyers are likely to win.

James Brown's estate is still in legal limbo and he died nine years ago.
25  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Favorite University Series: Indiana edition on: May 26, 2015, 11:02:06 am
write-in: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
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