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April 01, 2015, 11:27:13 pm
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News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

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1  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which side would you have supported in World War I? on: Today at 10:52:10 pm
Neutral, but if we had to get involved then on the side of the Central Powers so we could liberate Canada from their British overlords.
2  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: How could anyone believe in evolution? on: Today at 10:38:04 pm
Satan always comes in different packages; now he calls it "science."  They say the Earth is billions of years old, but that's not what the Bible says, ergo, it's wrong.  

My science is God's word, the holy KJV Bible, the only true translation.  And it's time to bring God back into the public schools, with Ken Ham's plan to bring creationism back to the public education system.
https://answersingenesis.org/religious-freedom/how-is-aig-reaching-into-public-schools/


It's time to pray to scientists so they stop faking the results of radioactive decay.  Satan has been planting a lot of "evidence" to get people to disbelieve.  It's time for a comeback!


Not even secular humanists pray to scientists, so why should religious people?

That Kentucky project of theirs is running afoul of one of the state Blaine amendments passed when godly Protestants were worried that heathen Catholics might get government funding for their schools.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: Today at 04:00:09 pm
But only someone who is a rabid secularist would deny that weddings are usually viewed as religious ceremonies.
Marriage can be a churchy thing, if that's your inclination, but that's by no means a necessary condition. As far as the government is concerned, it's simply a civil contract.
If flowers or catering were a requirement for civil marriage, you'd have a point.  My point is that there are people who view marriage as a primarily churchy thing and requiring them to participate in a marriage ceremony that their religion would not allow is an impingement upon freedom of religion.  A minor impingement to be sure, and if it were for something more vital than celebrating a wedding, say ensuring that people could travel freely or have a reasonably equal opportunity to get a job or housing, it's an impingement that would be necessary to secure the rights of others.
We needn't structure our laws around a few nutters here and there, who for whatever reason, incorrectly believe that a wedding, by definition, has to be a religious ceremony. That's just a flatly absurd suggestion.
It wasn't that long ago that only a few nutters believed that a wedding, by definition, would not be between only a man and a woman. That's the problem with trying to define the law without taking into consideration those who are nutters or stupid. What's considered to be neither nuts nor stupid changes. Basing the law on actual damages to be prevented is less mutable.
4  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Christians: Is the Bible complete and perfect? on: Today at 11:47:27 am
With the answers so far, it's beginning to look like the brand I was taught was very fringe. Even so, even we understood that not everything everything was to be taken literally. Most things, however, certainly were.

Keep in mind that this forum doesn't attract many religious traditionalists.  Even the believers here tend towards the liberal end of the theological spectrum.  Context matters.  Of the two churches I attend most, at one I'm one of the most liberal people there and at the other I'm one of the most conservative people there.
5  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Something creepy on: March 31, 2015, 11:26:51 pm
It is odd that snowguy's apparently gone all Gnostic on us.  It's even odder he's basing this on the canonical New Testament and on the Gospel of John in particular.  If anything John is the most anti-Gnostic of the gospels as it was written late enough that it addresses some of the proto-Gnostic heresies head on.
Well...couldn't you argue that both john and the gnostics are right...but they don't like each other because they understand it differently?  Or perhaps John truly understood it...and made course corrections to the gnostics? 
Not really. Gnostics argued for Jesus being noncorporeal and the inherent evil of physical matter. John testifies that Jesus was present physically and of the inherent good of the cosmos that God created.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: March 31, 2015, 08:41:20 pm
Actually no.  RFRA laws only allow religious beliefs to be raised as a defense in a lawsuit.  It doesn't make them automatic defenses to avoid a lawsuit.  Why is it that the opponents of such laws have to resort to outlandish hypotheticals instead of pointing to actual uses of them in the states that have already passed such laws?  Perhaps it's because what they claim to fear hasn't actually happened?

It probably has to do with the fact that this is the first time an RFRA law was passed that specifically recognized businesses as legal "people" capable of holding religious beliefs, and that this is the first time an RFRA law now applies to civil lawsuits where the government is a party.

Again, it's not the same law that is present at the federal level and with 19 other states and the pro-RFRA crowd have been repeating ad nauseum. AFAIK, none of them grant corporate personhood or apply RFRAs to lawsuits that don't involve a unit of local/state/federal government.

Leaving aside the point over corporate personhood, the lawsuit point if followed the way you would like would have the odd effect that if anti-discrimination laws were enforced by government action instead of personal lawsuits they would be subject to RFRAs.  The mechanism of enforcement shouldn't affect the efficacy of RFRA laws.  Either they should apply in both cases or in neither case.
7  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: March 31, 2015, 08:31:11 pm
But only someone who is a rabid secularist would deny that weddings are usually viewed as religious ceremonies.
Marriage can be a churchy thing, if that's your inclination, but that's by no means a necessary condition. As far as the government is concerned, it's simply a civil contract.
If flowers or catering were a requirement for civil marriage, you'd have a point.  My point is that there are people who view marriage as a primarily churchy thing and requiring them to participate in a marriage ceremony that their religion would not allow is an impingement upon freedom of religion.  A minor impingement to be sure, and if it were for something more vital than celebrating a wedding, say ensuring that people could travel freely or have a reasonably equal opportunity to get a job or housing, it's an impingement that would be necessary to secure the rights of others.
8  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Something creepy on: March 31, 2015, 08:06:22 pm
It is odd that snowguy's apparently gone all Gnostic on us.  It's even odder he's basing this on the canonical New Testament and on the Gospel of John in particular.  If anything John is the most anti-Gnostic of the gospels as it was written late enough that it addresses some of the proto-Gnostic heresies head on.
9  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: My cat's come back! on: March 31, 2015, 07:48:37 pm
The Cat Came Back!  Oh No!
10  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: your 'check engine light' comes on.... on: March 31, 2015, 07:36:50 pm
Option 4 for me because I know the probable cause is I didn't get the gas cap on just right.  Mine has gotten finicky in its old age.
11  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Lief Reservoir of Simple Truths and Smart One-Liners on: March 31, 2015, 07:33:27 pm
Nah, this is more Sulfur Mine material.
Only if Scott Walker posted here.
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: March 31, 2015, 12:51:43 pm
Looks like the bill is going to be revisited to add language concerning discrimination against the LGBT community.  He's still pushing this ridiculous narrative that this was not about discrimination, but at least the public outcry is going to make a difference.

True, the current push for these laws has fairly clearly been caused by the advent of same-sex marriage.  But only someone who is a rabid secularist would deny that weddings are usually viewed as religious ceremonies.

Nor can you deny that marriage is just as much viewed as a social contract between two people that has tangible benefits. 

I don't deny that.  But I don't forget that a contract between two people doesn't usually involve third parties who weren't part of the contract negotiations.
13  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: March 31, 2015, 12:34:05 pm
Well all anyone has to do is claim a strongly held religious belief that black people are evil and shouldnt be allowed.
Actually no.  RFRA laws only allow religious beliefs to be raised as a defense in a lawsuit.  It doesn't make them automatic defenses to avoid a lawsuit.  Why is it that the opponents of such laws have to resort to outlandish hypotheticals instead of pointing to actual uses of them in the states that have already passed such laws?  Perhaps it's because what they claim to fear hasn't actually happened?

Looks like the bill is going to be revisited to add language concerning discrimination against the LGBT community.  He's still pushing this ridiculous narrative that this was not about discrimination, but at least the public outcry is going to make a difference.

True, the current push for these laws has fairly clearly been caused by the advent of same-sex marriage.  But only someone who is a rabid secularist would deny that weddings are usually viewed as religious ceremonies.
14  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: 226 968 8633778263 9428 4 26 729464? on: March 31, 2015, 08:41:09 am
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010110111101110101001000000111010001110010011110010110100101101110011001110010
000001110100011011110010000001110011011000010111100100111111

That reminds me.  There are 10 kinds of people in the world.  Those who understand binary and those who do not.

there are 10 kinds of people in the world. those who understand hexadecimal and f the rest.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.  Those who understand octal and a lucky 7 who don't.
15  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: the 4 Gospels or the Pauline Corpus on: March 31, 2015, 08:37:19 am
I'm a Gospels plus Acts person as well, tho my appreciation of the real Pauline letters has grown over the last few years.
16  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: 226 968 8633778263 9428 4 26 729464? on: March 31, 2015, 08:20:59 am
011101110110100001100001011101000010000001100001011100100110010100100000011110
010110111101110101001000000111010001110010011110010110100101101110011001110010
000001110100011011110010000001110011011000010111100100111111

That reminds me.  There are 10 kinds of people in the world.  Those who understand binary and those who do not.
17  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Torie explained on: March 31, 2015, 08:15:50 am
I'll be completely honest, at first glance I thought this thread title was "Torie expired"

That wouldn't exactly be news would it?  After all wasn't the whole reason he relocated to that quiet New York hamlet was to conceal the fact he is now a zombie?
18  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Social Science History #5: The Hamitic Origin of African Civilizations theory. on: March 31, 2015, 12:14:03 am
I had been voting FT on these for the lulz, but this one is so asinine I can't.
19  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Joel Osteen and the Happiness Gospel on: March 30, 2015, 06:23:04 pm

Massive FF, because he teaches people to succeed on Earth. Something a lot of evangelical Christian sects seem to be lacking.
If anything evangelicals tend towards success on Earth too much. It's what leads many of them into thinking the Prosperity Gospel is valid and denying that detrimental climate change is possible.
20  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Can a grand jury create a precedent? on: March 30, 2015, 01:06:31 pm
Not really. As far as I know, the reason why a jury reaches the verdict they do isn't included in the official record. Certainly it never has been asked of any jury I've been on. So there was nothing to base a precedent on.

You've been on multiple juries? Why? I thought they were randomly selected from a large pool of citizens.

Juries aren't just for big felony cases.  I've not been on a Federal jury so far, but I've been called on for other jury pools four times in little over three decades, Twice for municipal courts, once for county magistrate, and once for (state) circuit court.  None of the cases I actually got placed on a jury from the pool lasted more than a day.  Technically, I'm in a Federal jury pool right now, but I've only gotten to the first stage of the court wanting me to send in my current contact info and making certain that I was eligible if I got called for an actual assembled pool, and the year of that term of being available to be called is almost up without my having been called, so I'm not counting that.

Nothing exciting happened in the juries I've been on.  Three traffic cases in which I helped render a verdict two civil cases that got settled before we could render a verdict and once even before we got to hear any testimony.  I fully expect to be on a couple more juries before reaching age 65, at which point I'd be able to get excused without having a reason if I wished.
21  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Something creepy on: March 29, 2015, 11:42:11 pm
My main thought is that I ought to get around to an in depth study of Revelation someday soon. Eschatology has never been a primary interest of mine as ideally a Christian should live their life both as if each day were their last and as if they had a myriad of more left to live. (That's a rule of thumb that applies to most people regardless of their religion.) I've done Isaiah and Daniel and I'm in the middle of the Twelve Minor Prophets right now. (I use the traditional Jewish division of the OT into 24 books because I think it likely that's what the 24 elders of Revelation 4 represent.)
22  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Can a grand jury create a precedent? on: March 29, 2015, 11:12:08 pm
Not really. As far as I know, the reason why a jury reaches the verdict they do isn't included in the official record. Certainly it never has been asked of any jury I've been on. So there was nothing to base a precedent on.
23  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Racial tolerance map on: March 29, 2015, 04:33:10 pm
Surprised by Japan, if I'm honest.

Since there are so few there, they may still be seen as a novelty.  Plus the rural areas in Japan are desperate to get anyone to live there these days.
24  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Do you have a caffeine dependence? on: March 29, 2015, 04:27:16 pm
No.  While I do drink caffeinated beverages, I'm able to avoid them before bedtime, and I don't need to have them immediately to be able to function when I wake up.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Pence signed it: Add Indiana to the list of states with "religious freedom" laws on: March 29, 2015, 04:23:29 pm
The government does not have the right to infringe upon individual rights.


Business owners, on the other hand....

Don't have that power either because they can't force you to deal with them regardless of your desire. (Unless they get the government to force you, but that's a separate issue.)  Of the various arguments put forth by the pro-forced intercourse side, this is absolutely the weakest I've seen so far.  While I don't agree with the position put forth by bedstuy and Andrew, I respect the way they state it, for while I disagree with their premise, I find their argument from their premise to be utterly logical.  The one you just made I don't respect for it is based upon utter illogic.
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