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15201  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: "safe, legal, and rare" on: June 02, 2012, 07:12:54 pm
And if you're pro-choice and saying it, do you view abortion like video game playing, "It's not wrong, but we shouldn't have too much of it?"

I should think it would be obvious that for a conservative pro-choicer, then saying that you want abortion to be rare means that you want the situations that would lead a woman to the decision of having an abortion to be rare.  Ideally, no woman should have an abortion because she feels she can't afford to bring the child to term. (Whether it be to keep the baby or give em up for adoption.)  Also, ideally people would abstain from intercourse unless they are prepared to deal with the possible pregnancy.  While some in the pro-life movement overstate the effect, terminating a (potential) human life is not an easy act to contemplate for most people, nor should it be.
15202  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Any of Romney's gaffes pale in comparison to Obama's "Polish Death Camp" on: June 02, 2012, 05:47:26 pm
Oh, step down off your soap boxes.

Obama moved this into the public domain for discussion.

If it had been Romney who had said this, then this thread would have been up to 16 pages by now of solid non-stop condemnation of Romney.

Nah, there are a lot more serious things to condemn both Romney and Obama about.  However, I don't believe we have an pro-Obama poster who make the claim that a similar minor gaffe made by Romney was worse than anything Obama has done.  At least not seriously.  Maybe as a parody of your posting style.
15203  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VIII on: June 02, 2012, 05:41:50 pm
I wouldn't mind seeing the Federal Republic broken up into smaller countries.

They thought at first that they could save the Titanic too.

If what I've heard about it is correct, they actually could have. Tongue


Yes and no.  Once the iceberg slashed open the side, they were doomed.  What is the case is that if the Titanic hadn't tried to veer away and had hit the iceberg head-on, it probably would have survived.
15204  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Do you have a soul? on: June 02, 2012, 05:30:12 pm
That's understandable in your case.  You're a lawyer. Grin
15205  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: House Debates Banning Sex-Selective Abortions on: June 02, 2012, 02:31:15 pm
No, although if you make it difficult to obtain late term abortions, you sort of end up in the same place, unless medical science can determine the sex of a fetus in the first trimester.

Standard ultrasounds can usually discern the sex at around the end of the first trimester.  Early amniocentesis could make the determination as early as the 10th or 11th week. Last but not least, there's a test that can be done using the mother's blood that is 98% accurate in determining a child's sex in the eighth week.

So despite what one might hope, limiting abortion to the first trimester does not do much to prevent sex-selective abortion.

Laws like this haven't worked anywhere in the world they've been tried for a very simple reason:  You can always claim the abortion is because of something else.  

I would probably support it anyway just for the symbolism of it.

True, altho if a ban on sex-selective abortions were focused on the abortionists, it would be possible to go after them if their ratio was too skewed.

Is the sex of the fetus really something that an abortion clinic keeps track of?

Probably not, but it wouldn't be difficult to keep track of if clinics were required to. The development of the external genitalia becomes visible around the eighth week, and of course a chromosome test on the aborted tissue could be done if the abortion was done earlier.
15206  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VIII on: June 02, 2012, 01:50:18 pm
They thought at first that they could save the Titanic too.
15207  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Spokesman for Nan Hayworth (R-NY) calls for throwing acid at Dem women Senators on: June 02, 2012, 12:50:32 pm
Well, this thread is going to be glorious.


But Wormy's right, he likely did not mean physically throw acid on people for Christ's sake.

Thing is, it happens often enough that using that phrase even in a figurative sense is repugnant.
15208  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Process / Re: Where does the EC convene? on: June 02, 2012, 12:40:39 am
There was also a contingent election in 1836 to determine the Vice President.

The constitutional requirement is that the electors meet someplace in their state, but it need not be in the State capital, tho it usually is.
15209  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Obama says he supports same sex marriage, but what do Americans think? on: June 02, 2012, 12:30:30 am
Forget Americans, I want to know what Amercians think.
15210  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Federal Appeals Court: DOMA unconstitutional on: June 01, 2012, 11:23:23 pm
Those changes concerning race were primarily achieved via the legislation and only the tidying up at the end was achieved via the courts.  Whereas from the beginning, government recognition of same-sex civil unions and marriages has been predominantly a court-imposed change that has run far ahead of public sentiment.
15211  Election Archive / 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: New CA polls by Field & SurveyUSA show Obama far ahead on: June 01, 2012, 05:23:15 pm
This is like the 5th Cali poll in the last week?  Wtf?  What will next week bring.. 5 polls from Wyoming?!

California has their primaries next Tuesday.  The California presidential polls are a byproduct of polls for the Senate primary.
15212  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Hipster religions on: June 01, 2012, 05:07:06 pm
Isn't Juche that North Korea thing? If so, Hipster Kim-Jong-Il would be hilarious to imagine.

What could be more hipster than those glasses and his combover?
15213  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Federal Appeals Court: DOMA unconstitutional on: June 01, 2012, 05:04:06 pm
But you have to answer, why this compelling change in the way we've always done things?

I already answered,  Go back and read what I already wrote if you want the details, but the short version is that State governments changed the definition of marriage and the Federal government declined to go along with that change.
15214  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Romney VP search: free-floating speculation and wish list thread on: June 01, 2012, 12:34:19 pm
At this point, I doubt that Romney will announce a choice until mid-July at the earliest.  The principal motivation for announcing early would be to get the running mate on the stump to do fund-raising, but that doesn't look to be a problem for either party this year.  I think Romney is going to wait to allow the decision on Obamacare to percolate thru the public consciousness a couple weeks so that the announcement of a running mate doesn't overlap with that.  Plus, the outcome of that decision could conceivably affect the choice of a running mate depending on how it affects te campaign narriative.
15215  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: The Romney strategy, which may very well work.......... on: June 01, 2012, 12:11:37 pm
The May jobs report is not good, but it not a disaster, and of course it does not reflect the boost the conomy got this month from declining gas prices.  It does make the prospect of an Obama landslide more remote, but I never did think that was gonna happen.
15216  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Spending under Obama increasing at lowest pace since Eisenhower's administration on: June 01, 2012, 12:05:03 pm
The main flaw with Keynesian economics is not the deficit spending during economic downturns, its in the surpluses that are built up during economic upturns.  The upturns happen, but the surpluses almost never happen because the politicians insist on either increasing spending or cutting taxes rather than building a surplus for future use.
15217  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Federal Appeals Court: DOMA unconstitutional on: June 01, 2012, 10:49:37 am
Again, this is where I think the distinction that the feds have historically deferred to states to make marriage law and would need to make a strong case to make an exception here is the distinguishing factor. The federal government isn't in the habit of defining which marriages they'll recognize or won't, so why start now?
For a long time, the Federal and State governments used the same core definition of marriage: one man and one woman.  It is quite disingenuous to say that because the Federal government saw no need for its own definition of marriage when the definition it would have come up with was the same as that of the States that it is now unable to independently define it.  Indeed, until it became apparent that there was going to be a disparity in the definition of marriage between the States, there was no need for DOMA, and when it did become apparent, DOMA was quickly passed.

The supreme court shows lots of deference to the states' ability to make their own policy. The same standard can carry different weight if the states or feds are making policy.
Except that DOMA does not force States to define marriage in any particular manner.

Besides that, having the federal government recognize legal state marriages is much less controversial, and much less likely to lead to civil disobedience and public rage, than the Supreme Court ordering clerks in Mississippi to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2012 when the state voted like 85% for their DOMA. That's certainly a consideration of the court.

No, that most certainly should not be a consideration of the Court, but it should be a Consideration of the Congress when it reaches the point where it wants to revise DOMA to allow for Federal recognition of State-recognized same-sex marriages.

If the concern is that federalism is a "smokescreen," isn't it likely that Kennedy would find for the plaintiffs on a federalism argument and not equal protection anyway?
While I'm certain Kennedy would love to stick his fingers in this pie, I don't see how he could do so in the fashion you imagine.

Without the equal protection foundation to build upon, there is no federalism argument to be made here.  The Federal government is not forcing the States to use a particular definition of marriage.  (The idea that the Federal government requiring the States to use a Federal definition in managing a Federally funded program that States can voluntarily participate in is forcing the State to do anything has been explicitly rejected in the past, so precedent would need to be overturned to find that was the case here.)
15218  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Me and Michael or How I hate DOMA. on: June 01, 2012, 10:28:40 am
It looks like DOMA has just been ruled unconstitutional for now....all hope isn't lost,  Andrew

Though the court did stay it's decision, things might be looking up.

As I stated in another thread, I can't see the First Circuit ruling's being upheld without setting a precedent that leads to leads to an effective nullification of all state laws that ban gay marriage. 

But you haven't explained why that should be.

Perhaps I haven't explained it to your satisfaction, I most certainly have explained it.

The decision is based upon an equal protection framework and I don't see any way that it can be upheld without establishing a precedent that could be used to force the states that do not allow for same-sex marriage to recognize the validity a same-sex marriage entered into in another state.

The First Circuit can claim all it wants that their decision is narrowly aimed at the Federal government, but it is not.
15219  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Someone's killing people in Canada and mailing their body parts to the Tories on: June 01, 2012, 10:06:49 am
Given the weird turn this case has taken, it's a shame jmfcst couldn't have waited a couple more weeks to push for being banned.
15220  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Olympic Sports Survivor on: June 01, 2012, 09:56:59 am
Gold - Tennis
Silver - Jumping Equestrian
Bronze - Modern Pentathlon

BTW - you haters who knocked out Fencing ahead of more deserving sports, did you know that fencing is one of the five elements of the modern pentathlon?  [My own reason for dissing it is that I want to get horses out of the Olympics.])
15221  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible on: June 01, 2012, 09:53:16 am
Sure, I do not like tyrannic laws telling people what to do and what not to do, but a tax on the consumption of sodas per ounce might've been way more effective than an outright ban of sodas larger than 16 oz.  I mean really.

NYC does not have the authority to impose such a tax on its own, and Bloomberg tried to get the State government to impose one, but failed to persuade them.
15222  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Federal Appeals Court: DOMA unconstitutional on: June 01, 2012, 09:50:49 am
I'm confused. Isn't the "Alabama must recognize my marriage" governed by a separate part of DOMA not covered here? Why does "the Feds must respect precedent and recognize my marriage" imply something in a different part of DOMA? Seems like a red herring to me. Why "bill of goods"?

because the First Circuit ruling is ultimately not based on a Federalism argument, tho it does employ one as a legal smokescreen.  It is based on an Equal Protection argument.  It argues that the Equal Protection rights of certain individuals are strong enough that the Federal government cannot come up with a different definition of marriage than the States.  If those rights are so strong that it causes State law to preempt Federal law then I cannot see how they would not also preempt the laws of other States and require them to recognize same-sex marriages done in other States.
15223  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Do you have a soul? on: June 01, 2012, 09:37:22 am
The question posed by the OP did not confine itself to the Abrahamic traditions concerning the soul.

Neither did my responses (unlike BushOK). Yet you seem a tad perturbed that I brought it up; why?

You focused upon one tradition at a point where the conversation was still generalist in nature and the arguments you have made against the existence of the soul all pertain to one particular conception of the soul - that of an atomic soul which is indivisible and incombinable.
15224  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: George, Laura Bush official portraits unveiled on: June 01, 2012, 02:41:48 am
Who painted them?  I want to know who not to commission a portrait from if I ever want one.
15225  Election Archive / 2012 Elections / Re: Ploys Obama has tried in attempting to divert attention away on: June 01, 2012, 01:38:08 am
Congrats on the new job at the Romney campaign Winfield!

Nah.  I think he works for a SuperPAC.  The actual, official, campaign is not that trollish.
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