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16726  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the Founding Fathers on: July 04, 2010, 11:41:14 am
A bunch of rebel scum who wanted the benefits of being part of the British Empire without helping to pay for its upkeep.  (Keep in mind, among my ancestors are Loyalists who had to flee to Canada for their own safety after being on the losing side.)
16727  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VII on: July 04, 2010, 11:16:42 am
A reminder of a time when executions were public (which is why that chair had to be carted from courthouse to courthouse).  If we're going to have capital punishment, we should be honest enough to let executions be seen.
16728  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Polarization of the Supreme Court on: July 04, 2010, 12:45:29 am
The increase in cases that try to reach the Supreme Court means that non-close cases are less likely to be taken up for consideration.  A better statistic would be the percentage of certs, not the percentage of rulings that are settled by one-vote majorities.
16729  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Do you support the "voting with dollars" campaign finance reform plan? on: July 04, 2010, 12:32:54 am
This one is really impossible to enforce.  If someone wants a politician to know that he has been greased, the Pony Express will get through with the message. Let everyone spend what they want from where they want, but if the spending gets over a certain amount, then cut checks to the opponent by more than the excess spending. That will slow down the money chase in a hurry.

The proposal also violates the First Amendment.
GODDAMN IT, did you read the damn thing? Their is nothing restricting them from claiming they sent any amount of money to a particular politician. It's just that it would be impossible to prove it because the money is anonymously- in other words, it would be possible to claim to 50 different politicians that you were donating $1 million dollars, and donate no money to any of them-and the politicians wouldn't realize!!!!

Given that the politicians are completely aware that any proclamations of donation could be complete lies, they will not be inclined to trust such claims thus undermining attempts to corrupt the system.

I don't see how such a system could constitutionally stop third-party expenditures,  If a group really wants to influence an election and let it be known who is doing it, I can't see how it could be stopped short of amending the constitution.
16730  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VII on: July 04, 2010, 12:08:15 am
Those loser pics are for losers.  The joke stopped being funny weeks ago.
16731  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Tippecanoe and Webster Too (A Whiggish history of the United States 1839- ) on: July 03, 2010, 09:09:46 pm
With the Whigs solidly in control of the 27th Congress, and a Whig in charge of the executive branch, things looked to be promising of the passage of the Whig platform into law during the special session of Congress that had been called for before Harrison's death and which began on May 31.

Webster's interpretation of the ambiguous constitutional clause concerning secession meant that he remained Vice President and thus President of the Senate as well as Acting President of the United States, but day-to-day procedural matters of the Senate were left to the President pro tempore, John Tyler of Virginia. Despite the Whig majority, because Webster did not always see eye-to-eye with Clay, Webster would need to occasionally cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate as its President.

The special session had reluctantly been called by Harrison because the public fisc was endangered.  The Compromise Tariff of 1833 had called for a gradual ratcheting down of the tariff rates, with a large final reduction to take effect January 1, 1842.  Hence even without the desire of the Whigs (especially Clay) to raise the tariff for protectionist purposes, something needed to be done.  Disagreement within the Whigs was over how high to raise the tariff and how broad based it should be. Webster did not wish to be rushed into such a decision and hence vetoed two efforts to quickly raise the tariff rates.  What finally would pass was the Tariff Act of 1841, a stopgap measure that provided that tariff reduction scheduled for  January 1, 1842 was canceled.  It would not be until the 28th Congress that Webster would propose a new tariff based upon the recommendations compiled by Webster's second Secretary of the Treasury, Henry Charles Carey.  The Carey Tariff, as the Tariff Act of 1844 was generally called, was similar to the Walker Tariff (Tariff Act of 1846) of our own time line, except that the rates were higher as both the generation of revenue and protectionism were its aims.  The Warehousing Act of 1844 (1846 in OTL) would also see considerable change in how customs were collected.

Webster would also leave his impact on the legislation reestablishing a government bank.  Rather than simply regranting the Second Bank of the United States its former status and privileges, Webster was determined to both blunt Democratic charges of a corrupt handout and to build a bank that would help spread the Whig economic program to every State.  The Federal Bank of the United States was therefore a totally new institution.  The name Federal Bank was not simply an attempt to avoid calling it the Third Bank.  States could choose to form a State Bank with certain requirements that would serve as the official collector of State revenues and be affiliated with the Federal Bank.  If a State did so, the Federal Bank would work in that State via the State Bank instead of independently and the State would get to select one director to sit on the board of the Federal Bank, and the Federal Bank would select one of the nine directors of a State Bank.

The Allotment Act of 1841 would allow settlers to establish homesteads on the public lands and pay for them later on the installment plan, provided that they farmed them for a period of eight years.  The Act would serve to increase western migration and settlement.

The Rail Road Act of 1842 established certain Federal subsidies for rail roads that met certain standards and provided that land be set aside for the right-of-way needed by rail roads.  While not early as generous as the Pacific Railroad Act of 1862 in our time line, as the government selected the route and the railroad would only get 1/20th the land that they would get in our time line (320 acres per mile instead of 6400 acres per mile).  One effect of the Rail Road Act was that the standard rail gauge of the United States in this time line would be 5 feet instead of the gauge of 4 feet 8½ inches that it is in our time line.

These legislative accomplishments would mean that unlike in our time line, the Whigs would be seen as responsible for the economic prosperity of the United States during this period, and they would retain control of both Houses during the 28th Congress instead of just the Senate. (130 - 97 House; 31 - 21 Senate).
16732  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Tippecanoe and Webster Too (A Whiggish history of the United States 1839- ) on: July 02, 2010, 09:57:01 pm
The Whig Party convention meeting in December 1839 had after 5 contentious ballots finally settled on William Henry Harrison as their nominee.  The convention had been a bitter struggle between Clay's and Harrison's supporters.  Some thought was given to putting a Southern Clay supporter on the ticket for balance, the only one to be found willing to accept the nod was John Tyler of Virginia.  While Harrison now lived in Ohio, he had been raised in Virgina which was where Tyler was from.  Besides, Harrison wasn't all that eager to reconcile with Clay.  So instead of a North/South balance the Whigs decided to adopt the choice made earlier by the Anti-Masonic Party and strike an East/West balance by nominating Daniel Webster of Massachusetts for Vice President.

The campaign of 1840 would be almost a mirror image of the one fought in our timeline.  The change in running mate meant that Harrison did slightly less well in the South, and slightly better in the Northeast, but not enough to affect the electoral map beyond altering the margins in various States.



Harrison/Webster 53.1% 234 EV
Van Buren/Johnson 46.6% 60 EV
Birney/Earle 0.3%

As in our timeline, William Henry Harrison takes ill after the inauguration and dies on April 4, 1841. But in this timeline Daniel Webster becomes Acting President of the United States and therein lies all the difference.
16733  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: America without the Civil War on: July 02, 2010, 06:52:22 pm
The civil war would have taken place. It was the divide over so many tarrifs and taxes, it wasnt about slavery.

As I pointed out earlier, if the southern States had not seceded, the Republicans would never have been able to enact their economic platform into law as the Democrats would have had solid control of the Senate. The tariff couldn't have gone up in 1861 without secession.

However, there is a small kernel of truth to what you say.  Were it not for the economics of plantation slavery, the South would not have been as opposed to tariffs as it was.  The economic system the South preferred had the South specializing in slave labor production of agricultural commodities (as agriculture was and still is the economic area in which slave labor suffers the least disadvantage in comparison with free labor).  High tariffs were disadvantageous to an economy dependent upon the use of slave labor to produce agricultural commodities for export.  Southern opposition to tariffs was because they correctly saw them as negatively impacting slavery, not because of any high-minded devotion to free trade.
16734  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: America without the Civil War on: July 02, 2010, 05:44:31 pm
Indeed, slavery likely lasts into the 20th Century without a Civil War.

That's an even bigger stretch than my own interpretation, particularly with the advent of the industrial revolution.

Not really.  Take for example cotton. Mechanical cotton pickers didn't become commercially viable in this country until the labor shortages of World War II led to their adoption.  In some third world countries, cotton cultivation is still done by hand rather than using expensive machinery.  With cheap and abundant slave labor, there is little economic incentive to mechanize most agricultural production.  While slave labor is inefficient if one includes the slaves in computing per capita GDP, exclude them and you can get the same or higher results for the elites that remain.

Imagine if you will a county in which jobs now done by illegal immigrants are instead done by slave labor.  While morally repugnant, economically it is roughly equivalent and maybe even more advantageous to those who currently hire illegals.  The case against slavery is not based on economics, but on morality.
16735  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: America without the Civil War on: July 02, 2010, 03:00:34 pm
This is going to require a South that is far less cocky in 1860 to have a shred of a chance of happening.  The most obvious way for that to happen is for there to be a less severe Panic of 1857.  Ways for that to happen would include the bill to reestablish the Second Bank of the United States not being vetoed by Tyler in 1841 and/or the SS Central America doesn't sink (with a lot of specie aboard).

With a North that was more obviously stronger economically and a less cocky South, there might not have been secession resulting from Lincoln's election.  With Southerners remaining in Congress, it is doubtful that much, if any, of the Republican platform would pass into law during the 37th Congress, since the Democrats would have retained control of the Senate.

No chance that slavery is abolished in only a decade.  Absent secession, likely Texas splits into multiple States in an attempt to keep the sectional balance going and the Corwin Amendment is ratified.  (Especially if South Carolina secedes but fails to get other States to leave with it and the Corwin Amendment is used to lure it back in.)  Indeed, slavery likely lasts into the 20th Century without a Civil War.

If there is a Spanish-American War, it happens sooner so as to add Cuba as a slave State.
16736  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Sen. Franken on the Roberts Court caving to corporations on: July 02, 2010, 12:28:30 am
How about instead of taking the beat to death "i'm an Independent.. both sides are horrible and EVERYTHING they say is baseless" position....

Perhaps you could point out where in the video Al Franken makes unsubstantiated and false claims of judicial activism by the Roberts court?
That assumes I'm going to bother looking at the video, which I'm not.  In any event, if he's referring to the case I'm assuming he is, the court made the correct decision.  I don't see how any law that muzzles in all circumstances whatsoever, "... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" simply because they assembled as a corporation can be constitutional.
16737  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Sen. Franken on the Roberts Court caving to corporations on: July 01, 2010, 09:36:16 pm
activist judge n.
    1. Any judge who issues an opinion contrary to that held by the person labeling the judge as activist.
16738  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: South Carolina voter registration by race, 1968-2008 on: July 01, 2010, 09:30:47 pm
the totals (via the 2008 election report, p. 218-238, http://www.scvotes.org/files/ElectionReports/Election_Report_2008.pdf )

1968: White 652096 / Black 200778... and give a total lower than the combined numbers of the two races.

1970: White 668397 (75%) / Black 220303 (25%)
1972: White 772603 (75%) / Black 260749 (25%) - voting age dropped to 18
1974: White 736302 (74%) / Black 261110 (26%) - uh, mass discovery of dead voters?

Not quite.  You'll notice that the numbers have regularly gone down for most off year elections.  Basically, after every presidential election, the State Election Commission sends out a postcard to everyone who hasn't voted in an election in the past four years.  Reply to it and confirm that you still live where you say you live and you stay on the election roll.  Don't reply, and your name gets purged because it is assumed you've moved and are no longer eligible to be registered where you registered.

Here's the entry concerning the 2009 purge. (link)
16739  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Are you trying to get Derek banned? on: July 01, 2010, 01:57:32 pm
The only downside with banning Derek is that he adds so many posts to the Comedy Goldmine.
I never was partial to fool's gold.

What exactly do you mean?

Many of your posts are very funny. Thus, a lot of them are in the Comedy Goldmine.

Quite the opposite, that I don't find many of the posts of his that make it to the goldmine all that funny.
16740  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: FEC Attacks Campaign for Liberty on: June 30, 2010, 08:12:56 pm
Frankly, the 501(c)(4) status of the Campaign for Liberty ought to be revoked.  501(c)(4)'s are allowed to engage in incidental politicking, but C4L's whole raison d'etre is politics.
16741  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Are you trying to get Derek banned? on: June 30, 2010, 07:48:16 pm
The only downside with banning Derek is that he adds so many posts to the Comedy Goldmine.
I never was partial to fool's gold.
16742  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: If you could ensure that one person lost this November... on: June 30, 2010, 05:12:51 pm
Since Andre Bauer lost the primary, I guess it'll be Alan Wilson, the boy who may get to be our State's Attorney General because his Daddy's a Congressman.
16743  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: The Curious Case of Alvin Greene on: June 30, 2010, 05:06:00 pm
So if I ever run for office I should use my middle name,, as it starts with an A. Gotcha.
16744  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: FEC Attacks Campaign for Liberty on: June 30, 2010, 03:44:44 pm
That's odd.

The link has the domain chooseliberty.org, but the Campaign for Liberty uses campaignforliberty.org

I can't find a link or anything else referring to this on the campaignforliberty.org website.  The DNS registrations for the two domains are totally dissimilar.

Looks to me like someone is trying to take advantage of gullible libertarians and scam some money from them.

     I pulled up the McAfee site report & it said that chooseliberty.org links to only one site: campaignforliberty.com. I thought maybe it was an instance of domain squatting, so I did a little investigating & discovered that it is in fact a .com domain (campaignforliberty.org re-routs to campaignforliberty.com). I am far from an expert on these matters, but it seems legit to me.

Problem is anyone can redirect to another site, but the link itself doesn't redirect, and the donation form one is sent to if you sign their "petition" doesn't either.  I'd expect that if this were legit that they would have a link from the main site to something about this, but there is nothing, nada, zilch.  Anyway, since campaignforliberty.com has a form to report suspected abuse of their logo, I filled out their form out.
16745  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Toll roads on: June 30, 2010, 12:44:26 pm
We have two toll roads in South Carolina, and one of them, The Southern Connector, just went into bankruptcy last week.
16746  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VII on: June 30, 2010, 12:30:04 pm
That signature is for losers.
16747  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: FEC Attacks Campaign for Liberty on: June 30, 2010, 12:19:36 pm
That's odd.

The link has the domain chooseliberty.org, but the Campaign for Liberty uses campaignforliberty.org

I can't find a link or anything else referring to this on the campaignforliberty.org website.  The DNS registrations for the two domains are totally dissimilar.

Looks to me like someone is trying to take advantage of gullible libertarians and scam some money from them.
16748  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Daniel Inouye on: June 30, 2010, 12:21:04 am
First, he has served his state in Congress since its creation.  This impressive feat of longevity was shared only with Strom Thurmond until his retirement in 2003.

Despite the popular impression, Thurmond was not around in 1789 when Congress was created.

You lie!

I prefer this Wilson:
16749  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Daniel Inouye on: June 30, 2010, 12:06:06 am
First, he has served his state in Congress since its creation.  This impressive feat of longevity was shared only with Strom Thurmond until his retirement in 2003.

Despite the popular impression, Thurmond was not around in 1789 when Congress was created.
16750  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of the Preceding Poster's Signature Thread VII on: June 29, 2010, 11:56:31 pm
*SKIP*

Well, at least the endorsements are bi-partisan! Wink

Thanks.  BTW, if I lived in Georgia it would be:
Gov: Oxendine (R)
As Roy's campaign has caused me think that Barnes is a couple of pine cones short of being the right man to lead the "Saudi Arabia of Pine Trees".
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