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16726  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Moderate Heroism Silvermine on: April 09, 2011, 05:25:31 pm
Shouldn't this thread be a Silvermine?  After all, gold is such an extreme metal.
16727  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Spanish Autonomous Communities Survivor on: April 09, 2011, 05:23:56 pm
Pais Vasco
16728  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: US House Redistricting: South Carolina on: April 09, 2011, 03:56:15 pm
Here's the map Matt was talking about:




Not the most horrible gerrymander I've ever seen, but one that might leave SC with a 7-0 GOP delegation in an election such as we had in 2010.  Could well stay 6-1 if this map or a similar one were to put Tim Scott into the 7th district.  Far too clever for its own good.
16729  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Champ Clark - Conservative? on: April 08, 2011, 07:07:21 pm
I suspect that the reasons are either Clark's opposition to the idea of a Federal Reserve Bank or that Bryan denounced him as a tool of Wall Street at the 1912 DNC after Tammany Hall threw New York's votes behind him.  Sort of ironic, since Clark opposed creating a Federal Reserve Bank because he thought it would be dominated by eastern banks.
16730  General Discussion / History / Re: Mechaman's Useless Thread of History on: April 08, 2011, 06:57:06 pm
A combination of factors.  First off, South Carolina was a majority black State at the time (as it was from the census of 1820 to that of 1920 inclusive), so with voting largely polarized on racial lines, it is no surprise that Grant won in both 1868 and 1872.  But why did he do so much better in 1872 than 1868?  By 1872 a number of White Democrats had become demoralized and did not bother to vote, since they knew they wouldn't win.
16731  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Modern Latin Alphabet survivor - round 4 on: April 08, 2011, 03:32:21 pm
Eliminate:
4 - A (thinks it should always have priority)
1 - W (for insisting that it is a double-U when it plainly is a double-V)
1 - Z (a lazy N)

Keep:
1 - C  (Needed for the ch sound, and since we get rid of Q, we should go back to the old Anglo-Saxon cw digraph for the qu sound.)
16732  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Arabic Digits survivor - round 4 on: April 08, 2011, 03:29:38 pm
7 1
5 2
3 4

(I bet some were expecting another cast the votes for the digit they equal vote from me!)
16733  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Spanish Autonomous Communities Survivor on: April 08, 2011, 03:27:24 pm
Pais Vasco
16734  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: The Commonwealth of Nations survivor - final round on: April 08, 2011, 03:22:04 pm
Yes it was a vote for Malta, even if I misremembered which cross they won.
16735  General Politics / Political Debate / Re: Which of the following marriages should be legal? on: April 08, 2011, 03:17:39 pm
All of them and in the case of "Between a 17-year old male and 40-year old female with parental consent"  I can't see why anyone thinks the female needs parental consent. Grin
16736  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should we have border security? on: April 08, 2011, 01:31:57 pm
Sheriff Babeu doesn't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to sticking to just the facts about what is going on at the border. (link - Arizona Daily Star)

More confirmation from the Border Patrol agents union.

http://www.local2544.org/

If you read carefully, its not just one management person telling the agents not to apprehend.

I read carefully, and all I saw was an echoing of the claims made by the Arizona sheriffs, not provide their own claims.  While they say they are sure that the claims are true and that there are multiple low-level executives who could back up the claims.  They are careful to not claim what any such people have said such things to the union.  I'll take those claims with a large grain of salt until someone actually comes forward to corroborate them.  So far all we have is people on both sides engaged in self-interested statements.

The Wall Street Journal had an interesting piece by James W. Ziglar And Edward Alden on its opinion page about the subject today: "The Real Price of Sealing the Border". (link - WSJ has a pay wall)

Back in 2002, Ziglar (then head of INS) had a study done on how much it would take to just carry out the mandates for border security on the books then.  The INS budget in 2002 was $6 billion, and the study concluded that to meet the mandates in 2010 would require a budget of $47 billion.  Since then, the budget for border enforcement has increased to around $17 billion while Congress has mandated additional things they expect done.  About the only one of the seven goals laid out then that is close to being accomplished is increasing the size of the Border Patrol, which has about doubled in the past five years to around 21,000.

I'll leave the pair's spin on the numbers out.  It is just spin, and I know CARL would disagree with it anyway.  What is useful about it is that does give a target budget number.

If you check the opening post on this thread you will have some idea of the position of the voters.

Opening post:
Recently I posted a government analysis in which it was acknowledged that the southern land border was not secured.  One of the posters on that thread suggested something to the effect that 'everyone knows that.'

So, the next question is, should we have border security.  In this context, two specific proposals, with survey results on public attitude.

So, do you agree with the public? 

Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals: (RANDOM ORDER)

                                   Favor Oppose No opinion

Building a 700 mile long fence on the border with Mexico

May 21-23, 2010         54%     45%        1%
May 4-6, 2007             45%     53%        2%

Putting more Border Patrol and federal law
enforcement agents on the U.S. border with Mexico

May 21-23, 2010         88%     12%        1%
October 20-22, 2006   74%     25%        1%

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/26/cnn-poll-support-for-border-crackdown-grows/


So the voters support the doubling of the size of the Border Patrol that has been done, altho I have to wonder how many of those who were polled were even aware that had happened.

I also have to wonder how many of those supporting building a 700-mile fence on the Mexico border were aware of either how much it will cost or that the border is almost 2000-miles in length.

What I don't have to wonder about is why CARL chose to leave out the results in that poll you cited that aren't in accord with your positions.  I have yet to observe a situation in which a selective quote was possible that he did not make one.

Most notably CARL ignored this question:
Creating a program that would allow illegal immigrants already living in the United States for a number of years to stay here and apply to legally remain in this country permanently if they had a job and paid back taxes
DateFavorOpposeNo opinion
May 21-23, 201080%19%1%
May 4-6, 200780%19%1%

So 4 out of 5 Americans favor a program that would give what CARL would call amnesty to those illegal immigrants whose only crimes are due to their immigration status, considerably more than those who favor building an incomplete wall to nowhere.
16737  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Longest Ruling Non-Royal Leaders Survivor - Round 16 on: April 07, 2011, 06:01:05 pm
3 - János Kádár
2 - Yumjaagiin Tsedenbal
1 - Félix Houphouët-Boigny
16738  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Virgo Tribe ♍ - ROUND 2 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:56:08 pm
The remaining members of the Virgo tribe are, along with their safety points and the elections in which they won electoral college votes are:

William O. Butler [2 safety points, VP (1848)]
Harry Byrd [2 safety points, P (1960)]
Dwight D. Eisenhower [4 safety points, P (1948, 1952)] immune until ROUND 5
William Graham [1 safety point, VP (1852)]
Barry Goldwater [3 safety points, P (1964), VP (1960)] eliminated ROUND 1
Charles Jenkins [2 safety points, P (1872)]
Samuel Johnston [1 safety point, VP (1796)]
Walter Jones [2 safety points, P (1956)]
Robert LaFollette [4 safety points, P (1924)]
John Logan [1 safety point, VP (1884)]
Theodora Nathan [2 safety points, VP (1972)]
Richard Nixon [8 safety points, P (1960, 1968, 1972), VP (1948, 1952)]
Sarah Palin [1 safety point, VP (2008)] eliminated ROUND 1
Franklin D. Roosevelt [9 safety points, P (1932, 1936, 1940, 1944), VP (1920)]
Winfield Scott [3 safety points, P (1852)]
Edward Telfair [1 safety point, VP (1789)]
Thomas Watson [1 safety point, VP (1896)]

Voting:
Cast 10 eliminate votes as you wish between one to four people, save that you cannot give two people the same number of eliminate votes.

Cast 3 keep votes as you wish between one or two people.

Give one person a safety point, but you cannot give a safety point to someone in the same round you give them a keep vote.

This round will be open for at least 24 hours.
16739  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Leo Tribe ♌ - ROUND 2 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:52:19 pm
The remaining members of the Leo tribe are, along with their safety points and the elections in which they won electoral college votes are:

Spiro Agnew [2 safety points, VP (1968, 1972)] eliminated ROUND 1
Charles Bryan [1 safety point, VP (1924)]
Charles Curtis [2 safety points, VP (1928, 1932)]
William Dayton [2 safety points, VP (1856)]
Geraldine Ferraro [1 safety point, VP (1984)]
Herbert Hoover [4 safety points, P (1928, 1932)]
Charles E. Hughes [3 safety points, P (1916)]
John Kern [1 safety point, VP (1908)]
George McClellan [2 safety points, P (1864)] immune until ROUND 3
J. Danforth Quayle [2 safety points, VP (1988, 1992)]
Ronald W. Reagan [6 safety points, P (1976, 1980, 1984)]
Daniel Rodney [1 safety point, VP (1820)]
John Sergeant [1 safety point, VP (1832)]
Richard Stockton [1 safety point, VP (1820)]
Zachary Taylor [2 safety points, P (1848)]
Samuel Tilden [4 safety points, P (1876)]
Wendell Willkie [2 safety points, P (1940)]

Voting:
Cast 10 eliminate votes as you wish between one to four people, save that you cannot give two people the same number of eliminate votes.

Cast 3 keep votes as you wish between one or two people.

Give one person a safety point, but you cannot give a safety point to someone in the same round you give them a keep vote.

This round will be open for at least 24 hours.
16740  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Cancer Tribe ♋ - ROUND 2 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:47:57 pm
The remaining members of the Cancer tribe are, along with their safety points and the elections in which they won electoral college votes are:

Nathaniel Banks [1 safety point, VP (1872)]
Aaron Burr [3 safety points, VP (1792, 1796, 1800)]
Andrew Donelson [1 safety point, VP (1856)] eliminated ROUND 1
Michael Dukakis [4 safety points, P (1988), VP (1988)] eliminated ROUND 1

Edward Everett [1 safety point, VP (1860)]
Millard Fillmore [3 safety points, P (1856), VP (1848)]
Albert Gore Jr. [4 safety points, P (2000), VP (1992, 1996)]
Garret Hobart [1 safety point, VP (1896)]
Benjamin Lincoln [1 safety point, VP (1789)]
John Jay [4 safety points, VP (1789, 1796, 1800)]
John McCain III [3 safety points, P (2008)]
William McKinley [4 safety points, P (1896,1900)]
Theodore Roosevelt [5 safety points P (1904, 1912) VP (1900)] immune until ROUND 3
James Ross [1 safety point, VP (1816)]
Nathan Sanford [1 safety point, VP (1824)]
James Sherman [1 safety point, VP (1908)]
Burton Wheeler [3 safety points, VP (1924)]

Voting:
Cast 10 eliminate votes as you wish between one to four people, save that you cannot give two people the same number of eliminate votes.

Cast 3 keep votes as you wish between one or two people.

Give one person a safety point, but you cannot give a safety point to someone in the same round you give them a keep vote.

This round will be open for at least 24 hours.
16741  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Virgo Tribe ♍ - ROUND 1 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:47:08 pm
Votes:
4 Byrd E(4)
-3 Eisenhower K(3)
11 Goldwater E(1+2+10) K(2)
0 LaFollette E(4) K(3+1)
-1 Nixon E(2) K(3)
14 Palin E(3+6+8) K(3)
10 Watson E(10)

Safety:
1 Butler
2 LaFollette
1 Nathan
1 Scott

Immunity:
4 Eisenhower
1 Nixon

Results:
You like Ike!With a three vote margin, Ike has won immunity for this round and the next three rounds as well.


You don't like Tina Fey. She'll have to go hide under 30 Rock since with 14 votes, Sarah Palin is the first to be eliminated from this tribe. Ya Betcha!

As for our second eliminee, Edu is learning that "Extremism in the use of keep votes is no vice."  With 11 votes to Watson's 10 votes, Goldwater is eliminated despite the fact he would have won a tiebreaker. (Of course that assumes that Napoleon wouldn't have given one of the keep votes to Watson that he instead threw away on Palin.)
16742  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Leo Tribe ♌ - ROUND 1 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:43:10 pm
Votes:
11 Agnew E(7+4) K(3)
8 Bryan E(8)
0 Ferraro E(3) K(3)
-2 McClellan E(2+2) K(3+3)
22 Quayle E(1+7+8+6)
2 Stockton E(2)

Safety:
1 Dayton
1 Hughes
2 Tilden

Immunity:
1 Ferraro
2 McClellan
1 Taylor

Results:
First off, Yelnoc cast a strangely incomplete vote, tho given who he did vote to eliminate, his omission did not affect who was eliminated this round.

With a one vote margin, McClellan is immune for this round and will not have to fight next round. either.  I guess that's appropriate since he never did care much for fighting.
With twenty-twoe votes, J. Danforth Quayle is the first to leave the Leo tribe.  This member of the Indiana National Guard did his part to keep the Vietcong out of Indiana, but apparently you felt he was a bust as Vice President.

He is followed by the second person to ever resign the Vice-Presidency, Spiro Agnew.  Given how quickly you also eliminated the first to resign the post, John C. Calhoun, I'd be tempted to think you don't like quitters, but Milhous managed to easily survive his first round in the Cancer tribe.  It is interesting to speculate on what might have been had it not been that he was a crook.  His rapid rise in traditionally moderate Maryland had been possible because of Democratic splits over segregation.  If he had become our 28th President and won election in 1976, the course the Republican party took afterward would likely have been significantly different.
16743  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Electoral Vote survivor - Cancer Tribe ♋ - ROUND 1 of 5 until merge on: April 07, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
Votes
12 Donelson E(2+10)
14 Dukakis E(9+8) K(3)
4 Fillmore E(10) K(3+3)
7 McCain E(10) K(3)
-3 McKinley K(3)
1 Wheeler E(1)

Safety:
1 Dukakis
1 Jay
1 McCain
2 Wheeler

Immunity:
2 Gore
3 Roosevelt

Results:
Bully!  With a one vote margin, Theodore Roosevelt has softly spoken his way into immunity for this round and the next round as well.

Perhaps you hated those Iowa signs that urged people "Do Caucus for Dukakis" but with 14 votes, Michael Dukakis is he first Cancer to be cut out.  I would have thought he would last longer, but apparently his support tanked.

Andrew Jackson Donelson with 2 votes is eliminated next.  Named after his uncle, Donelson grew up in the Hermitage after his father died and his mother moved in with her sister (Jackson's wife).  Donelson served his uncle as an aide both in war and politics.  His first wife (and first cousin) Emily Tennessee Donelson, served as White House hostess and unofficial First Lady of the United States for the widower Jackson until 1834, when ill health from the tuberculosis that would kill her two years later forced Jackson to have his daughter-in-law serve as White House hostess instead.  However, his close association with the White House would be for naught when he sought the Vice Presidency on the one and only American Party ticket.



16744  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Gaddafi Jewish? on: April 07, 2011, 03:51:12 pm
Probably a hoax.

He's a Sunni Muslim full stop.

There's nothing to prevent a Jew from being a Muslim, but agreed, it almost certainly is a hoax.
16745  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: La Francophonie survivor - final round on: April 07, 2011, 11:54:59 am
Vive le Senegal!
16746  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: The Commonwealth of Nations survivor - final round on: April 07, 2011, 11:54:24 am
The winner of the Victoria Cross for the win!
16747  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Signatories of the Declaration of Independence Survivor ROUND 26 on: April 07, 2011, 11:52:59 am
Eliminate:
5 - John Hart

Keep:
1 - Francis Hopkinson
2 - Samuel Adams
16748  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Arabic Digits survivor - round 3 on: April 07, 2011, 11:48:58 am
6 6
4 4
2 2
16749  Forum Community / Survivor / Re: Modern Latin Alphabet survivor - round 3 on: April 07, 2011, 11:48:23 am
Eliminate:
5 - I (too egocentric)
1 - A (thinks it should always have priority)

Keep:
1 - C  (Needed for the ch sound, and since we get rid of Q, we should go back to the old Anglo-Saxon cw digraph for the qu sound.)
16750  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should we have border security? on: April 07, 2011, 10:45:12 am
It would be nice if the Obama administration would enforce the laws on the books rather than granting administrative amnesties.

That will require an increase in funding so as to actually have places to put the people you want locked up until they are deported.  So, CARL, how much more do you want spent, and how do you propose it get paid for?

There are many existing expenditures that could be reduced to pay for such measures.

Lets start by defunding NPR, reduce the funding of EPA, and eliminate Obamacare.

So to save us from toxic Mexicans, you would have us not worry so much about toxic chemicals.  However, that still doesn't put a dollar figure on what you think would be enough to give what you think would be adequate border security.
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