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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update XV: Stuck Inside of Tulsa with the Oklahoma City Blues Again on: July 21, 2014, 11:31:50 am
He was forcefully removed by the moderator community though. I remember the incident and in no way did he go willingly.

Yeah, we basically had to break out a metaphorical crowbar.

It's the only language they understand.
2  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Sweet Sixteen Act of 2014 (Final vote) on: July 19, 2014, 05:57:21 pm
Aye
3  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: No Problem But You Pay It Act (Debating) on: July 19, 2014, 05:54:41 pm
As I said before I can't see myself supporting this bill, simply because this surgery is so vital and 150 million is peanuts compared to our total budget.
4  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Scottish Independence Referendum - 2014 on: July 19, 2014, 05:41:12 pm
That's terrible news for Ed Milliband.
5  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: End Sports Profiteering Act of 2014 (Final vote) on: July 19, 2014, 12:02:04 pm
Aye
6  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Is religious identity more comparable to racial or political identity? on: July 19, 2014, 09:35:52 am
It clearly depends on the location.
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: I think there is a candidate everyone is forgetting on: July 19, 2014, 08:58:52 am
I haven't been around here for very long, but this is definitely the dumbest thread I've seen so far.

Yup. Gully should clearly be banned for making it.

Good point.

I'm sorry that I have to piss on your freak show but Gully is clearly an attention seeking troll (he says diplomatically). His contributions do little good and this thread has become the centre center of a forum circus which is followed by the chronically bored and 'ironists' alike. It's clear that he ignores our advice and is really only interested in the attention. Given the difficulties of his life and the way that he abuses the forum with constant calls to ban posters he doesn't like, I think it would be best that he be banned instantly.

Right now Atlas is in a pretty terrible state even by its own standards. I think we should take steps towards improving it and this would be the first.

x Mr. Morden


I doubt that petition will be necessary- he's already on the ban brothers list.
8  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Fair Hiring Act of 2014 (Amendment at Vote) on: July 19, 2014, 08:24:23 am
Aye
9  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: The Duke-Scott Educating The People Reform (Debating) on: July 19, 2014, 08:20:55 am
Aye
10  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 12:59:38 pm
Yeah I meant you in the third person sense.

With the "and most likely are" I meant that most psychopaths are sane and level headed.
11  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 12:26:16 pm
Nothing of importance will be done. We can't piss off a psychopath with nukes.
Putin is a psychopath? I think he is very, very sane and level headed. He knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. That is what makes him so dangerous.

You can be (and most psychopaths probably are) a pyschopath and be sane and level headed.
12  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: I'm Leaving...For Now on: July 18, 2014, 08:12:24 am
13  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: Northeast Voting Booth: Special Assembly Election & Referendum on: July 18, 2014, 07:07:13 am

Official Ballot
Northeast Assembly
To fill one seat

[X] JoMCaR (Federalist - Massachusetts)
[  ] Write-in: ______________
[  ] None of the Above
[  ] Abstain

Referendum
Quote from: Final Text
Northeast Cabinet Repeal Amendment
The Cabinet Amendment of the Northeast Constitution shall be removed in its entirety.
[ X ] Aye
[  ] Nay
[  ] Abstain
14  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Spring 2014 Convention - PLATFORM OR I'LL CHOKE A B*TCH on: July 18, 2014, 07:06:10 am


Should the Labor Party platform include an executive summary of the contents inside prior to the body of the document?
Select only one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

Do you support the Industry section of the platform as is currently written?
Select only one option.
[  ] Yes
[ X ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Select all that apply.
[  ] Removal of the plank calling for nationalization of power and fuel companies.
[ X ] Clarification or modification of the plank calling for nationalization of power and fuel companies. (This essentially means that you support the idea of power and fuel company nationalization, you just want to see the plank re-written in the interests of coming to a consensus within the party as to what that means, exactly)
[  ] Removal of the plank calling for nationalization of transportation.
[ X ] Clarification or modification of the plank calling for nationalization of transportation.
[ X ] Removal of the plank calling for nationalization of iron and steel.
[  ] Clarification of the plank calling for nationalization of iron and steel.
[  ] Removal of the plank calling for federal chartering of corporations.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the plank calling for federal chartering of corporations.
[  ] Removal of the 'Policy for Exports' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Policy for Exports' plank.
[  ] Removal of the 'Production for use' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Production for use' plank.
[  ] Removal of the 'Modernize collective bargaining' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Modernize collective bargaining' plank.
[  ] Removal of the 'Industrial democracy' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Industrial democracy' plank.
[  ] Removal of the 'Promote cooperative industry' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Promote cooperative industry' plank.
[  ] Removal of the 'Streamline the state' plank.
[  ] Clarification or modification of the 'Streamline the state' plank.

Do you support the Agriculture section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.

Do you support the Housing section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.

Do you support the Education and Leisure section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[  ] Yes
[ X ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.

From an in game point of view, I don't think it makes sense to centralize all powers to the federal government, as that gives the regional governments nothing to legislate on.

Do you support the Health and Children section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.

Do you support the Social Insurance section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.

Do you support the Peace section of the platform as is currently written?
Select one option.
[  ] Yes
[ X ] No

If you answered 'no', what changes would you like to see made?
Type all suggestions below.]

There are some scenarios, such as a genocide, where I think we are obligated to intervene, even if it does not impact us.

Do you support the addition of a section to the platform concerning Game Reform?
Select one option.
[ X ] Yes
[  ] No

If you answered 'yes', what would you like it to call for?
Select all that apply.
[ X ] Bicameral federal legislature.
[  ] Open party-list proportional representation.
[  ] Closed party-list proportional representation.
[  ] Mixed member proportional representation.
[  ] FPTP
[  ] Referendums at the federal level.
[ X ] Single thread, SoFE administered referendums for the approval of all constitutional amendments.
[  ] Selection of a percentage of officeholders by lot rather than election.
[  ] Write-in: We already have referendums at a federal level.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 37 Percent Of Mississippi GOPers Would Back Confederates In Civil War on: July 16, 2014, 03:43:31 pm
Except it doesn't even say that.

It clearly says that Lincoln would also invade if the federal government's property (such as, say, Fort Sumter) was tampered with.
Sorry, should've addressed that. First of all, even if the Federal government was rightfully pursuing the return of its properties, that still has nothing to do with slavery and hardly justified the all-out invasion of the South. There is clearly nothing wrong with attempting to defend one's home against an invading army attempting to occupy and destroy it, even if that army has the end goal of reclaiming its rightful property miles away.

Lincoln was less interested in actually reclaiming Federal property than he was in using it as a pretext to provoke war. For weeks prior to that incident, the Lincoln administration had assured South Carolina that the fort would be evacuated. However, instead of evacuating, Lincoln chose to send a convoy of warships to Charleston harbor and refused to meet with Confederate diplomats to discuss peaceful purchase or transfer of the installation, despite the fact that the Confederates were willing to fully pay the Union in full for all Federal installations. He successfully provoked the South Carolinian militias in the area to fire the first shot, thus serving as a pretext for invasion.

Lincoln's main aim after his inauguration was keeping the border states in the union. That's why he didn't actually make any moves to regain federal property. He did, as he had to do, try to hold onto what the Federal Government did hold, namely Fort Pickens and Fort Sumter.

The warships sent to Fort Sumter were purely to re enforce the fort, not to launch an invasion of Charleston Harbor.

Lincoln never said he was going to withdraw from Fort Sumter. Seward said something along those lines but Lincoln overruled him.

Quote
Whatever his other war aims were, the abolition of slavery was clearly not among them, given his support for the constitutional protection of Southern slavery.

Not initially, no, but that's irrelevant. Whether Lincoln wanted to abolish all slavery immediately does not impact whether the war was about slavery.

Quote
Note that in both of these quotes, Lincoln stresses that he is not opposed to the existence of slavery, only its extension. While I would agree with Nathan that this is clearly preferable to being an all-out proponent of slavery, it precludes the possibility that Lincoln invaded the South with the intent of abolishing slavery. To go back to the original point I was making in response to Alfred, even if you think that Lincoln was a closet abolitionist who was secretly planning to abolish slavery the whole time, individual Southerners (the majority of whom did not own slaves and had perfectly good reasons to support secession that had nothing to do with slavery) surely cannot be faulted for choosing to defend their homes against an invading army that, to their knowledge, had no intent to abolish slavery.

Lincoln's war aims are irrelevant- although after Antietam he was very much an immediate abolitionist . The war was about slavery from the start.
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 37 Percent Of Mississippi GOPers Would Back Confederates In Civil War on: July 16, 2014, 01:34:09 pm
Consider this excerpt from Lincoln's First Inaugural Address (emphasis mine):

Quote
The power confided in me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the government, and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.

Lincoln plainly stated that the ONLY reason he would invade the South would be to enforce the tariff laws. Thus, unless one is an extremely passionate proponent of protectionism, it makes no sense to allow the destruction of one's hearth and home rather than attempt to repel Lincoln's invading forces.

Except it doesn't even say that.

It clearly says that Lincoln would also invade if the federal government's property (such as, say, Fort Sumter) was tampered with.

Quite apart from that, the first inaugural address had an important role as propaganda in convincing the border states to remain in the union, so shouldn't be taken as summing up all of Lincoln's war aims.

Though, if you do want to selectively quote from Lincoln's speeches, you could read this, from his first inaugural:
Quote
One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute

Or, maybe this one from his second inaugural:

Quote
One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it.

The question of whether slavery was the main cause of the war is not one serious historians debate.
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 37 Percent Of Mississippi GOPers Would Back Confederates In Civil War on: July 16, 2014, 01:28:09 pm
If you don't think that slavery was the cause of the war, [ur=http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html]you could read what the south themselves had to say about it.[/url]

Then, you should read these excellent posts by gully.

Then, you should stop talking about the civil war.
18  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Confirmation hearing: Simfan for Attorney General (Final Vote) on: July 16, 2014, 07:55:21 am
Simfan was just nominated to be the wiki update guy, snowstalker being the legal advisor.

I, too don't have anything against simfan, and also have a well known pretty lax view on confirmations. Generally speaking, if someone turns up and isn't utterly appalling, I'll confirm, but simfan didn't turn up. If Dempgh nominates him again and he does turn up, I definitely might reconsider.
19  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 16, 2014, 06:59:24 am
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/14/brazil-2014-stats-world-cup
20  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: The right not to get shot amendment (Final vote) on: July 16, 2014, 06:34:37 am
Aye
21  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Fair Hiring Act of 2014 (Amendment at Vote) on: July 16, 2014, 06:33:34 am
Nay
22  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: End Sports Profiteering Act of 2014 (Debating) on: July 15, 2014, 04:57:24 pm
Aye
23  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas Forum IRC Channel on: July 14, 2014, 06:21:22 pm
Mah internet not reading mibbit right now for some reason. Am I alone in this?

Mine's not either- I get the front page but as soon as I go for chat it dies.
24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: SENATE BILL: Ukrainian Technical, Economical and Military Aid (Debating) on: July 14, 2014, 01:38:31 pm
Nay
25  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: #420YES Amendment (debating) on: July 14, 2014, 11:50:51 am
Mind altering substances could mean many, many, things.
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