Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 01, 2014, 07:22:14 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 227
1  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - BYLAWS on: Today at 02:18:48 am
Uncle Aaron continues to miss the point again. If you actually paid a decent amount of attention to Northeastern politics,  you'll see the legislation I've proposed, and I have faith that Speaker SWE will introduce it to a vote soon. I'm just saying - I'd expect you, especially considering your preference, to flagrantly speak out against it. Not make lukewarm statements about how you helped kill the Mideast Hate Bill while dismissing valid concerns about his bigotry as "IRC derping and trololoing" (which seems to be a common theme of yours recently).

Yeah, my over-arching theme here is that the Senate, President and Vice-President get to decide hifly's fate, as they do with all confirmations. Your bill is quite irrelevant here, which is the point you're missing: these are two separate issues, and any connection between the two I trust will be resolved during the confirmation hearing, and not by your's or anyone else's grand-standing. That is, unless, we're deciding here and now that we're going to conduct ourselves by a completely different standard that was has been the status quo.

There are plenty of people in this game who have proposed and engaged in some pretty disqualifying behavior when it comes to holding public office - some known, some not - and the only real difference here is the amount of time that's elapsed between the two. If it's an issue (which almost always, is not when it comes to rehabilitating their political careers), then the amount of time in between the acts shouldn't matter, now should it? People have proposed and passed asinine legislation regarding abortions, made rape jokes, destroyed regions, attempted to secede entire regions from the game, served entire terms while being MIA and a litany of other shocking acts, yet they've all been given a pass because it was either kept hush-hush or enough time has passed for many to not know or remember. The fact that these two events in this case are only a week apart is the only reason this is getting attention and not the others, and I call bullshit on the inconsistencies and the fact that some shit-heads get a pass, while others do not.

And thanks for reminding me of my "preference": I'll be sure to take your completely-irrelevant life experience on the matter into account.
2  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - BYLAWS on: Today at 01:35:34 am
We were the ones who brought the original issue to the forefront in the first place and led the charge for the bill to be vetoed.

Yet you still attacked me for calling DemPGH out on it. Quite frankly I'm disgusted that you would think that Hifly should be anywhere near any public office, let alone a Cabinet position.

You're late to the party, and have completely missed the target as to what I said, so whatever. I don't think most of the game should be anywhere near any public office, but if I lived by that creed, then I'd be SOL, now wouldn't I? I'm sensitive to the fact that people who are nominated for any position should have a fair trial in front of the Senate; perhaps you're not familiar with why I take such a stance. Maybe you should apply for the job (since no one else did, and that's why he was nominated at all) if you want to make a difference, because your grand-standing isn't going to change one god-damned thing as to whether the nominee is pulled or whether there's a confirmation hearing.
3  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Petition for the Withdrawal of Mideast Speaker Hifly's Nomination as SoEA on: Today at 01:27:44 am
And I was proposing a bill making sure any of that garbage would never be taught in Northeast schools. Your point?

Was that you don't have one, of course.
4  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Petition for the Withdrawal of Mideast Speaker Hifly's Nomination as SoEA on: Today at 01:13:14 am
Wait, why would anyone nominate Hifly for anything?

Ask President DemPGH and Griffin, they seem to be the ones championing his nomination.

Not championing his nomination: just not taking kindly to your latest attempt to sow discontent in Labor and align yourself with the most popular position on the most hot-button issue!



Roll Eyes

At least his allegations are better than being an Uncle Lindsey.



While you were making up fake controversies, I was digging up the details on that awful bill so it can be handled in the way it needed to be, bud.
5  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA on: Today at 12:14:18 am
...

Couldn't include Barnes' quote/proposed alterations; max character limit.

Section 1: I have no objections to that.
Section 2: Appears to just be rewording; no objections.
Section 3: No objections; mere clarification.
Section 5: No objections to the first part; in regards to the other officers, we actually tried this in the past to a degree while you were gone and the results were rather...paltry. I think it'd be best to keep officer creation centralized and conservatively used, but that's just my opinion.
Section 7: In regards to proposed 1-d: I think this would be redundant, as the option for the candidate in question to even run in a primary wouldn't be there.
6  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Petition for the Withdrawal of Mideast Speaker Hifly's Nomination as SoEA on: September 30, 2014, 11:59:52 pm
Wait, why would anyone nominate Hifly for anything?

Ask President DemPGH and Griffin, they seem to be the ones championing his nomination.

Not championing his nomination: just not taking kindly to your latest attempt to sow discontent in Labor and align yourself with the most popular position on the most hot-button issue!

7  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - BYLAWS on: September 30, 2014, 11:50:48 pm
You went bananas, challenged Napoleon to a duel, then quit before it happened, so that's not a smear. And you (attempted?) to deregister twice, and you had 4 registration flips in 6.5 months (not 6 months; excuse my poor estimation skills).

Mr. X
The People's Party
Ohio

X
Ohio
Labor

X
Independent
Ohio

Mr. X
Deregistered

Mr. X
Ohio
Independent

Mr. X
Labor
Ohio

Mr. X
Labor
New York

Mr. X
The People's Party
New York

Malcolm X
Deregistered


I bring it up merely as an example and a reminder, so you may understand in your own perspective what it's like to be judged in one situation about things you did in another (for which I'm a bit sensitive; see my GM nominations). Also, I don't have principles but yet I adhere to them too strongly, according to your own words? Sorry for looking out for my family in this game, the bond of which is based on loyalty to our values and one another, rather than popularity with every external faction (perhaps that's why you never fit in). Though I have to say...had I taken the same constantly morphing path as you in managing Labor, we'd probably have 7-8 Senators right now - all of whom would be obsessed with how many people like them and how often they could appear contrarian to the voters that elected them.

And yes, Barnes is right:

8  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - BYLAWS on: September 30, 2014, 10:50:31 pm
I don't really understand how you think that someone not signing your specific protest makes them a support of hifly, and as you quote "unnamed sources" it's of little relevance.  Anyway, as I'll say for the third time, our party's position on this issue is clear, my position on this issue is clear as a rainbow and I don't think anything can be gained by cluttering up the convention thread any further.

I'll put it bluntly, if you won't call out Hifly (of all people) for his homophobic and anti-semetic views, it's that much less likely you'll condemn it when it is someone who is credible expresses such sentiments.  Honestly, I don't know how much clearer I can be.  I realize some people don't want to risk angering party bosses.  However, leadership is about doing the right thing even when it is not the politically expedient thing.  It's a shame no one in Labor has, thus far been willing to show real leadership on this issue.

We were the ones who brought the original issue to the forefront in the first place and led the charge for the bill to be vetoed. Huh Sometimes, a separation of situations is necessary in this game. Should we continue to hold against you the fact that you've rage-quit on at least one occasion, or assume that you'll be incapable of holding elected office in the future because you resigned from one in the past, or should all parties fear you because you changed your political affiliation no fewer than four times over the span of a few months? Something tells me you'd ask for immunity and reconsideration in such situations.

If you spent half as much time trying to contribute to the game as you did spinning one way or another in order to take advantage of what is seemingly most popular at the moment, I might be willing to indulge in what you're doing. Unfortunately, all I see is a messenger trying to take advantage of a situation for his own reasoning, much of which has nothing to do with the actual subject. In other words: get someone with some principle to do what you're doing, and I'll support it.
9  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - BYLAWS on: September 30, 2014, 10:36:41 pm
Any and all Laborites are perfectly free to sign your blatant political stunt of a petition if they so choose; nobody is telling anyone to do otherwise. Perhaps it has more to do with the messenger than the message.
10  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Lumine & SJoyce - A New Course for Atlasia ("Instant Government") on: September 30, 2014, 09:34:53 pm
Candidate Lumine, I have a question.

In the two news coverage pictures of you, one where you are giving a speech, announcing your candidacy, and the other where you appear to be on your way to a meeting or campaign event, in both pictures, there are only men, absolutely no women.

Can you explain why?

Presumably, those are all his husbands.
11  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Legends of the Atlasian Temple: TERROR ATTACK ON ATLASIA AND HER ALLIES on: September 30, 2014, 09:00:31 pm
It was aliens

Can confirm that it was NOT aliens.

So they had citizenship?
12  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Office of President DemPGH (Peace and Prosperity) on: September 30, 2014, 08:48:48 pm
Also, who else would want to do the role? Cabinet roles, to be frank, are awful.

Take it from me: it's always easy to bitch about the choices, but not so much to stand up and offer oneself for the role. I propose we pass an amendment that automatically confirms for a cabinet position the first person that bitches about the selection for said office
13  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Legends of the Atlasian Temple: TERROR ATTACK ON ATLASIA AND HER ALLIES on: September 30, 2014, 08:44:42 pm
It was aliens
14  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA on: September 30, 2014, 08:03:05 pm
[BYL] Here are the proposed by-laws for the Labor Party. Several modifications have been made to streamline the office; areas that are proposed to be eliminated have been stricken, while added areas are bolded/in red.

Quote
I. CREATION & AMENDMENT OF PARTY BY-LAWS

1. The Chair, along with two Party members appointed by the Chair, will have the initial task of creating any proposed changes to the by-laws and will be in charge of initial changes in subsequent conventions. By-laws are then presented to the members at the convention, with members allowed to make objections and suggest changes to the by-laws.
   a. If there are no objections within 24 hours, the by-laws will be automatically approved.
   b. If there are objections, 24 hours will be given for the members to discuss and make changes as a group; more time can be given by the Politburo if necessary.
   c. Then a 72 hour vote will take place to approve or reject the by-laws.

2. The Chair may, in circumstances and times outside the convention, place on a caucus ballot any revisions, retractions and additions to the Labor Party by-laws assuming the motion receives verbal support from at least 25% of the caucus. If said threshold is attained, a voting booth will be opened immediately to either approve or reject the changes.


II. CREATION & AMENDMENT OF PARTY PLATFORM

1. The Vice Chair, along with two Party members appointed by the Vice Chair, will have the initial task of creating the Party platform and will be in charge of initial changes in subsequent conventions. Platform is then presented to the members, who will then be allowed to make objections and suggest changes to the platform.
   a. If there are no objections within 24 hours, the platform will be automatically approved.
   b. If there are objections, 24 hours will be given for the members to discuss and make changes as a group; more time can be given by the Politburo if necessary.
   c. Then a 72 hour vote will take place to approve or reject the platform.

2. The Vice-Chair may, in circumstances and times outside the convention, place on a caucus ballot any revisions, retractions and additions to the Labor Party platform assuming the motion receives verbal support from at least 25% of the caucus. If said threshold is attained, a voting booth will be opened immediately to either approve or reject the changes.

III. ESTABLISHMENT & MANAGEMENT OF CONVENTIONS

1. The Labor Party Convention will start one month before the Atlasia Presidential Election, with the location of the convention rotating among the five regions of Atlasia in the following order: Mideast, Imperial Dominion, Pacific, Northeast and Midwest.

2. Establishing the next Labor Party Convention shall employ the following process: Each Member is given 24 hours to nominate one city in the given region assigned for the next convention, with the top three (3) nominations being placed on the ballot. Members will be given 24 hours to select their choice. If there is a tie at any point during the convention nomination or vote processes, the tie shall be broken by which nomination was submitted first.

3. Each Labor Party Convention will have the following agenda:
  a. Updates and amendments of the Party by-laws
  b. Updates and amendments of the Party platform
  c. Endorsements for the upcoming Atlasia Federal Elections
  d. Special and irregular business put forward by the Politburo
  e. Establishment of the date and city for the upcoming convention

IV. ELECTION OF THE POLITBURO

1. Members will have 48 hours to declare that they wish to seek the following positions, beginning on the fourth Friday of February, June and October: Chair and Vice-Chair, and General Secretary & Attorney-at-Law. There will then be 72 hours for campaigning, followed by a 48 hour election.

V. ROLES OF THE POLITBURO

1. Chairman
  a. The official leader of the Labor Party, unless there is a Labor Party President
  b. Is in charge of the convention process
  c. Officiates Party voting
  d. Gives the Vice Chairman and the General Secretary goals and objectives for their given jobs
  e. Is in charge of Party political strategy
  f. Is allowed to create and/or appoint other Party officials as he or she sees fit
  g. Is in charge of creating and updating the by-laws at the Party convention with the assistance of a personally-appointed committee
  h. Ensures insubordination by other members of the Politburo is handled within the caucus

2. Vice Chairman
  a. Takes over for the Chairman temporarily if the Chairman requests a leave of absence or has been absent for 48 hours
  b. Is in charge of Party recruitment in order to grow the Party
  c. Responsible for keeping up with business at the Federal and regional levels, and makes sure that the Labor Party has an official stance on each issue; this will be done in collaboration with the rest of the Politburo and the advice of the Party
  d. Deals with logistics and personnel
  e. Is in charge of creating and updating the platform at the Party convention with the assistance of a personally-appointed committee

3. General Secretary
  a. Takes over for the Chairman or Vice Chairman if either the Chairman and Vice Chairman both have requested a leave of absence or both have been absent for 48 hours
  b. Is in charge of candidate recruitment for all levels of government
  c. Is in charge of GOTV operations for both the Party and allied factions, which includes supporters not officially registered with the Party
  d. Serves as a Whip for the Senate, working with Senators to find common ground and support for bills proposed by the Party

4. Attorney-At-Law
 a. The legal advisor for the Politburo, the Labor Party at-large and all Labor Party members
 b. Shall serve as prosecutor or defense attorney for any and all legal cases set forth by individuals, regional governments or the federal government against the Labor Party or its members, as well as cases on behalf of the Labor Party or any of its members that do not seek action against the Party
 c. The Attorney-At-Law shall have sole discretion in accepting cases on behalf of Labor Party members that do not directly pertain to affairs regarding the Party


VI. ENDORSEMENT PROCEDURE

1. Regional endorsement elections will take place one (1) week before the respective election, with the exception of endorsements handled during conventions.

2. Federal endorsement elections will take place two (2) weeks before the respective election, with the exception of endorsements handled during conventions.

3. All Labor Party candidates in compliance with Sections VII-1a & VII-1b are automatically endorsed by the Party.

4. If there are not enough Labor Party members running in a given election, the Party will then endorse candidates from other parties who agree with the Party's principles and values, allowing our Party to endorse a maximum number of candidates equivalent to the number of open seats in an election.

5. In order to be eligible to receive the endorsement of the Labor Party, the candidate from the other party has to declare that he or she wishes to receive our Party’s endorsement during the endorsement suggestion period, which begins two weeks before the election and ends one week before the election before the endorsement vote begins. The candidate must also have a Laborite second the endorsement nomination in order to be placed on the endorsement ballot.

6. Endorsement voting will begin immediately following the endorsement suggestion period and will last for 72 hours. Votes for each non-Party candidate shall be cast and counted either as an affirmative, negative or abstention. An abstention ballot is counted against a candidate's affirmative percentage as it applies in Section VI-6.

7. A non-Party candidate must receive affirmative preference from at least 60% of all endorsement ballots cast in order to receive the endorsement of the Party. In the event there are more candidates with 60%+ affirmative preference than available endorsements, they will be awarded from highest percentage affirmative preference downward.

VII. PRIMARY PROCEDURE

1. All Labor Party candidates are automatically endorsed by the Party, except for the following situations in which there will be a Labor Party Primary:
  a. If there are more Labor Party members running than open spots in a given election
  b. If a Labor Party member is a presidential or vice-presidential candidate on a cross-party ticket
  c. If there are more than 3 candidates for Senate in a regularly-scheduled Senate election

2. Primaries will take place two (2) weeks before the respective election. Voting will last for 72 hours.

3. The loser is strongly encouraged not to run as an independent, as doing so will result in a loss of position within the Politburo, a denial of access to Labor primaries or the endorsement of the party in the subsequent three (3) Federal elections.
15  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: shaving soap on: September 30, 2014, 06:16:00 pm
I've just always assumed it's a scam.
16  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA on: September 30, 2014, 06:12:21 pm
Labor's chairman is gay. I'm gay. Our Midwest Governor is the most gay. You have nothing to worry about, X. I promise on all of my gayness.

Thank God we have all of these breeders here to inform us what's best for us!
17  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Office of President DemPGH (Peace and Prosperity) on: September 30, 2014, 06:09:11 pm
So I see the two leaders of Atlasia's leading voice of the "left" have endorsed the architect of the Mideast Hate Bill, and seem to be attacking me for it. This is especially troubling coming from Adam Griffin, who seems to be more willing to fight for his party than his fellow kin.

The words of bigots are not worth hearing.

As far as I'm concerned, you are an accessory to his prejudice.

Oh, listen to the IRC precincts going and . Roll Eyes

Nominations like this will just be par for the course with a President Lumine, who is essentially what everyone's complaining about here. I envy DemPGH, who's been defamed to the point that he frankly doesn't have to give a damn about what any of you think.

So put up or shut up: waddle on down to the job application office, and put one in. This job is literally the least desired one in the game, and I'd wager not a single person who's going to throw a fit of faux outrage actually applied for the position.

Wait, I'm confused, does Labor not support marriage equality anymore Huh  It sounded like what you're saying was "if people are so upset, why don't any of them apply" (even if I think it is a bit of a disingenuous argument, I guess I see where your coming from), but also that you think we should have more socially conservative cabinet appointees along the lines of what Lumine would support?  Hopefully, I'm misunderstanding what you meant.  I swear though, the next thing you know, Senator JCL will come out for marriage equality Tongue

This isn't even good trolling! It's times like this that make me miss Napoleon. Cry
18  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA on: September 30, 2014, 05:56:16 pm
Will Labor include a plank in it's platform condemning the President's nomination of noted-anti gay rights activist Hifly as SoEA?  I'm not trying to make trouble or anything, I'm just trying to figure out what to make of this.  I haven't been here in awhile so maybe things have changed, but I seem to recall a number of Laborites being well to even my left on marriage-related issues.  So I hope you'll forgive me if I'm rather perplexed by the current Labor President, DemPGH, nominating Atlasia's most infamous opponent of marriage equality (my apologies to Senator JCL Tongue ) to the cabinet shortly after the latter rammed through the Mideast Assembly a bill that would've forced public schools to indoctrinate our children with reprehensible homophobic propaganda.  

Anyway, I was just hoping someone could clarify the Labor Party's position on marriage equality for me.  Was there some seismic shift while I was gone that caused Labor to become an anti-gay rights party?  It seems kind of weird that a party that includes prominent supporters of legalizing group marriage, polygamy, and incest would decide same-sex marriage is the issue where they decide to tack in a more socially conservative direction, but there you go, I guess.  Or do you guys still support marriage equality for our nation's LGBT community?  I'm sorry to have to ask this if the Labor Party does still supports marriage equality, but I just want to make sure I don't have to worry about Senator JCL filling a Supreme Court vacancy or something Tongue

Labor was the party that, you know, actually noticed what hifly was doing in the Mideast, and a leading force behind the scenes and publicly to take care of that issue. With that being said, if someone's actions precluded them from ever being able to do anything else in this game, then half the population would have ceased to exist. I personally don't care much for the guy, but the same could be said regarding the position of SoEA among the population. If you or someone you know would make a better SoEA, then by all means, apply. If not, then you really don't get to complain about any of this. Stop trying to stir up nonsense, as it's not going to make you cool in the eyes of anyone who you think it will.
19  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Office of President DemPGH (Peace and Prosperity) on: September 30, 2014, 05:50:31 pm
The words of bigots are not worth hearing.

As far as I'm concerned, you are an accessory to his prejudice.

Oh, listen to the IRC precincts going and . Roll Eyes

Nominations like this will just be par for the course with a President Lumine, who is essentially what everyone's complaining about here. I envy DemPGH, who's been defamed to the point that he frankly doesn't have to give a damn about what any of you think.

So put up or shut up: waddle on down to the job application office, and put one in. This job is literally the least desired one in the game, and I'd wager not a single person who's going to throw a fit of faux outrage actually applied for the position.
20  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - CON LOCATION VOTE on: September 30, 2014, 05:36:22 pm
[CON] During the voting period and by a vote of 5-4, Buffalo, NY shall be the location of the Winter 2015 Labor Party Convention!
21  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Democrats - are you panicking right now? on: September 30, 2014, 08:04:11 am
No, because there's this thing called 2016, when all of those Tea Party Senators come up for re-election. There's a good chance that Democrats gain as many seats two years from now as Republicans could gain this year.

Now, I'd panic/care if there was a possibility that we could maintain the number of seats in this election that we currently have, because 2016 would then produce the possibility for a filibuster-proof majority, but alas...

Whether Democrats have a majority or not come 2015 in the Senate won't affect legislation or policies that are passed over the next two years, and won't stop Democrats from regaining the Senate come 2017.
22  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Georgia's Very Own Megathread! on: September 30, 2014, 07:21:32 am
We can now add Richmond County to the growing list of counties that will offer Sunday early voting:

Quote
Voters can leave the pews and head straight to the polls next month after the Richmond County Board of Elections voted 4-0 Monday to allow Sunday voting in the upcoming general election.

A single location will now be open from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Oct. 26 at the board’s main location inside the municipal building. The location wouldn’t require voters to pass through the building’s security checkpoint and can facilitate as many as 20 machines, said Board of Elections Executive Director Lynn Bailey.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/politics/2014-09-29/elections-board-oks-sunday-voting?v=1412039933

Now, the map looks like this:



Percentage of 2008 Democratic statewide vote with 2014 early Sunday voting locations:
40.2%

Percentage of 2008 Republican statewide vote with 2014 early Sunday voting locations:
15.0%
23  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Majority of Americans think there should be a third party on: September 30, 2014, 06:24:34 am
Is a three party system viable in this country? No. Is a four-party system viable in this country? Yes.

Something like Labor-Democratic-Republican-Constitution. The dominant forces in such a scenario (based on today) would likely be Constitution & Democratic, with Republicans having the ability to affect who controls the presidency and Labor affecting who controls the House.
24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Labor Party Fall 2014 Convention - San Francisco, CA - CON LOCATION SELECTION on: September 29, 2014, 08:50:55 am
[CON] I believe we had a situation similarly before where we had a "tie" of sorts with convention suggestions, so in order to break it, we'll go in chronological order of submission.

The voting for the February 2015 Labor Party Convention will commence, and will last for 24 hours.



Winter 2015 Labor Party Convention Location:

[ ] Buffalo, NY
[ ] Fort Lee, NJ
[ ] Scranton, PA
25  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How many of your grandparents are alive? on: September 29, 2014, 01:39:14 am
0. Both of my grandfathers were dead before I was born; my grandmothers died in 1999 and 2008 at ages 75 and 83.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 227


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines