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1  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: Today at 08:16:36 am
This government is almost criminally incompetent. Claiming that all is fine and then suddenly reversing completely is extremely poor management.
2  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Jeb: "Hell yeah, I would [kill Baby Hitler]. You gotta step up, man!" on: November 10, 2015, 10:11:08 am
I heard the abortion gotcha but while amusing I'm not sure it makes sense in this setting. I mean, pro-lifers oppose abortion because it's killing an innocent baby. It's at least unclear whether fetus Hitler is "innocent".
3  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Euro 2016 Qualifying on: November 08, 2015, 06:13:56 am
The FIFA ranking is completely terrible. The ELO ranking is a lot better, imo.
4  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas forum leaderboard on: November 08, 2015, 06:11:45 am
Wait, why did Kal leave?
5  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Carson SNAPS while on live TV on: November 07, 2015, 11:03:54 am
Jesus, this guy is annoying. "Why don't you ask Hillary Clinton what her education policy is??" Yeah, because asking that question is such a gotcha. Unbelievable.
6  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump lashes out at DWS and calls her a "crazy, neurotic woman" on: November 07, 2015, 10:15:28 am
As always, Atlas posters ridiculing someone gets even more amusing once you remind yourself how vastly less successful most of them are both in their careers and sexual lives. Like, I'm sure DWS is gonna lose sleep over a bunch of loser internet geeks disliking her.

The irony is you probably wouldn't apply this logic to Donald Trump, even though it still applies.

It's telling that the only defense of DWS provided on this board is "you're a sexist loser for not liking her!"

The irony is that your strawman version of your opponent is a strawman? I don't think that is the definition of irony.

Anyway, attacking a man over his looks (especially when done by straight men) isn't exactly comparable to attacking a woman over hers. I know you won't get that but there it is.

Also, I'm not defending this woman. I honestly know little about her. But I can recognize sexist attacks when I see them and I think it's important to call that out.
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Fox Business Network Debate Lineup on: November 05, 2015, 07:15:04 pm
That sucks for Christie, I think he has enough general credibility to have had a chance at getting back otherwise.
8  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 05, 2015, 07:07:52 pm
I swear to God, if you guys keep derailing this thread any longer by turning it into yet another thread where people name call others for being racist or what ever I will pull a Politicus and delete it. The thread is here for people to have sensible discussions about Swedish news and politics, not whether you think Denmark is the worst thing on this planet. Which is a ridiculous discussion that has no place here.
I am sorry for my share of derailing. You know I like this thread very much and have contributed to it in the past. Just felt the need to reply to some particularly bizarre remarks.

Meanwhile, SD has declined in the polls a little, now being somewhere between 16% and 20% -- consistently below both S and M.

Like DavidB I'm sorry about the negative contribution my answer to eric82oslo created, which was why I decided to not answer MaxQue provocation and ignore BundouYMB, and just post news.

BTW as for the whole Roma camp in Malmö, have it been Sweden discusses whether to deport them back to Romania (it's fully legal) or will they be given housing?
LMAO the Roma aren't from Romania.

LMAO, most Roma in Sweden are from Romania.

9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump lashes out at DWS and calls her a "crazy, neurotic woman" on: November 03, 2015, 12:55:26 pm
I hate Sarah Palin does that make me sexist? LOL, what defines as sexism today is a joke...

No, it does not. Being sexist makes you sexist.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump lashes out at DWS and calls her a "crazy, neurotic woman" on: November 03, 2015, 12:46:28 pm
ITT: sexist teenagers

Yes the only reason people hate this woman is because they're sexist.

Trolls like you should be banned.

You hate her because she insisted on sticking to a politically advantageous talking point in an interview?

11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Trump lashes out at DWS and calls her a "crazy, neurotic woman" on: November 03, 2015, 12:23:32 pm
ITT: sexist teenagers

Yeah, Jesus, this thread is awful.

As always, Atlas posters ridiculing someone gets even more amusing once you remind yourself how vastly less successful most of them are both in their careers and sexual lives. Like, I'm sure DWS is gonna lose sleep over a bunch of loser internet geeks disliking her.

I mostly note that part, because I know that the more pertinent point of why sexism is awful would fly over peoples' heads anyway.
12  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Since joining what positions have you become more conservative or liberal on: November 03, 2015, 11:44:12 am
Hard to tell, it was so long ago. I think I've become more aware of things like feminism and minority issues just by virtue of growing up.

And I'm a lot more pragmatic when it comes to economic issues.

So overall I'm probably more left-wing now.
13  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: ATTN DAVE: Reinstate the jmfcst on: November 03, 2015, 10:30:31 am
I'm very opposed to this request.  Even in the land two steps short of anarchy - AAD, jfistula is intent on doing one thing - making everyone miserable.  I've only moderated one thread over there....locking it thanks to his relentless trolling by trying to argue for the sake of arguing.......all off the topic.  He's almost worse than Einzige, and that' saying a lot, believe me.

This place is far better off without him.

You had, what, a month of being a moderator and already you've become what you hate? Sad
14  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Are you a consequentialist or a deontologist? on: November 03, 2015, 08:12:10 am
To elaborate: the problem with consequentialism is that it creates a completely artificial and ultimately meaningless between "causes" and "consequences", as if the two were separate categories of reality. However, causes and consequences don't exist in an absolute, but only relatively to each other. Every action is a consequence of something and a cause of something else. Thus, saying that "an action is right or wrong depending on whether its consequences are right or wrong", which only amounts to shifting the question of whether its right or wrong forward, without ever providing a substantial answer. And the fun thing is, you can do this over and over, since every consequence is itself the cause to further consequences! At the end of the day, this allows consequentialists to defend the morality of basically anything.

Honestly, it is baffling that some moral philosophers still take consequentialism seriously. It should long have been thoroughly disqualified as a moral theory and subject to the same ridicule as nonsense like the ontological argument.

The ontological argument gets more crap than it deserves. Wink

I am not a consequentialist. I like Kant but I also like virtue ethics a bit, so I'm a bit moderate hero on that stuff.
15  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Turkey General election - November 1st 2015 on: November 02, 2015, 04:30:34 pm
What I hear from my Turkish friends is that there is a bloc of Kurdish voters that are anti-PKK and anti-war and they may have swung to AKP in fear of more conflict. It seems illogical to me but could be a thing.

AKP of course lost a lot of Kurdish votes they used to have in June so regaining them isn't completely crazy or anything.

16  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: What are the worst electoral campaigns in history? on: November 02, 2015, 04:26:28 pm
On referendums, the Yes to the European Constitutional Treaty in France in 2005 was pretty pretty bad. Not that they really made gaffes, but they were so immensely smug, there was a massive will to shut their face up, even on the soft Yes side voters.
I immediately thought of the Dutch yes-campaign, which might be the worst electoral campaign in history, with as low point probably the "Auschwitz/Srebrenica/Madrid attack" scare video featuring sounds of screaming babies.

61,5% said no.

Oh, wow. So it's basically trying to frame it as a choice between voting yes and having a second Holocaust?
17  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Lief Reservoir of Simple Truths and Smart One-Liners on: November 02, 2015, 04:22:49 pm
Guys, CrabCake is right on this issue. Like he said, "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" could describe anybody from Gary Johnson to Michael Bloomberg. If that doesn't convince you the term is meaningless bullsh**t, I don't know what will...

I mean, on one end of that phrase, you have WalterMitty, who said he'd support Rick Santorum in the 2006 senate race for God's sake. On the other end, pre-socialism Mechaman. Pretty wide range.

It's a good thing that terms like liberal and conservative identify a narrow range of views with surgical precision.
18  General Politics / Economics / Re: Why is the VAT system so widely used? on: November 02, 2015, 12:03:16 pm
As pointed out, it's harder to fraud VAT and generally less incentive to get up to shenanigans.
19  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Politicus on: November 02, 2015, 10:39:33 am
I appreciate the resonse, Gustaf.  I'll admit that there's probably more to the story than I know about it, or care to know.  I still think it's highly inappropriate to post the PM, but that's your prerogative. 

In the absence of additional information, my presumption is that you're both harmless, you're both often annoying, and you're both valuable posters.  The only threat that would bother most of us is the threat of IP blocking.  Since you have more authority in that regard, you will always be perceived by by the average Atlas Forum poster as the more threatening.  As long as you're a Kapo, you'll have to own that in any argument with any poster, you'll be the one suspected of being heavy handed.  It just goes with the territory.  No argument about that being "undemocratic" is validated because clearly the forum is not a democracy.  Certainly not when there's a permanent security council with the power of life and death over any user's atlas forum persona. 

Sure. I do think it's a bit unfair to simultaneously assume I'm the bad guy in absence of information and also think I become even more of the bad guy if I give the information. Doesn't seem to leave me with much choice.

We've been over the PM thing already, so I'll just reiterate that I don't think I need to respect the privacy of a stranger sending me unsolicited threats. I can't think of any reasonable analogy where that would make sense to me.

The aspect of me being a moderator I can sort of get but I think it's based on a skewed interpretation of what powers moderators have and how it is wielded. That's a separate discussion of its own though. All I can say is that I have always try and step out of ban discussions (or even moderating posts) for posters that I have a strong animosity with.

I'd like to remind people who are suspicious of this that me (and many other moderators) receive a ton of abuse from people on this forum all the time. I don't say that to whine or get sympathy, but as a piece of evidence that we aren't as fascist or petty as people like to think.

Politicus has harassed me via PM for at least a year and I never brought up the idea of a ban or any type of disciplinary action. The only one who has been aggressively trying to silence their critics via threats and bullying is actually her so the free speech crowd on here should maybe think twice before throwing their weight so heavily on her side. Tongue
20  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Please ban Col Roosevelt on: November 02, 2015, 10:21:51 am
The racism stuff should probably be enough. But essentially every ban is wrong, every non-ban is wrong, let's not kid ourselves. Tongue
21  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Have you participated in any Political Polls? on: November 02, 2015, 02:57:26 am
I have yes. But it was a suspect poll to say the least.
22  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread on: November 01, 2015, 05:13:33 pm
Tino Sanadaji is an interesting guy. I've had a couple of conversations with him. He's become very popular with the SD crowd though in a way that is a bit unappealing.
23  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Politicus on: October 30, 2015, 09:45:32 am

If your point is that she wasn't actually going to have her Stockholm friends beat me up or whatever...

I think that was mainly my point.  Since we agree that it is unlikely that this is what she meant, then it is also unlikely that the statement was meant as a threat. 

When Hank Hill says, "Dammit Bobby, I'm gonna tear you a new one!"--Followed usually by, "Peggy, the boy just ain't right, Itellyawhat."--one understands that he is speaking figuratively.

Which was my initial reaction to her threat. She then doubled down and said that I should understand she really meant this and it would actually happen, etc. So it wasn't a one-off line or anything.

Wormguy, what on Earth is my power trip? I didn't actually do anything. I'm not the moderator in charge of that board. I thought a temp ban on starting threads about elections was reasonable for someone acting that way and I told Hash as much when he brought this up.

Again, if anyone had a power trip it was maybe the person who used her power as thread starter to bully a poster out of it? People seem to think this is about a bore like me thinking it's awful a thread got destroyed. I don't actually care that much about that, I wasn't following the thread. But how can't you see how insane it is that she deleted it as a follow-through on a threat in trying to silence someone who called her smug? If you wanna talk "taking things too seriously" "being on a power trip" "overreacting" those all seem like prime examples.

Not me voicing an opinion on it.
24  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Politicus on: October 29, 2015, 09:51:59 am
You can hate me all you want

calm down.  We don't hate you. 

I, for one, think you're a reasonably well-adjusted, intelligent, and quite likeable person.  Would definitely have a martini or two with you if we were ever in the the same hemisphere at the same time. 

But--let's be honest--you can be stickler.  You're square.  You rubbed her the wrong way, just as you rub many posters the wrong way.  Of course she got pissy.  She said some nasty things and you over-reacted.  Now she's gone.  And along with her, her insight and prescience is lost.

Typed text doesn't really convey the subtleties of meaning that voiced obnoxiousness does, unfortunately.  We think of our world as more "connected" than the world of 20 years ago.  Is it really?  We can sit in a little cubicle all day, every day, and get food, clothing, shelter, and even a somewhat reasonable facsimile of sexual intercourse, without ever leaving that cubicle.  Is that the sort of connected-ness to which we aspire? 

In any case, you have never convinced me that she threatened you.  I respect that it is your genuine opinion that she did, and you certainly have the right to your own opinion.  And, of course, since you are a moderator, your opinion is law.  How convenient is that?

I'm being very calm and you may of course replace hate with dislike if you so want.

See, Angus, here is what I don't get (and I asked you this in the other thread which was then locked by the thread starter). You say that  OVERREACTED while she got PISSY.

But all that I did was to say that I thought it was immature to delete a whole thread about an election because someone called her smug and refused to be blackmailed into ceasing their posting. What she did was to threaten me, dig up my personal info online, post it on here and direct all sorts of slurs against me.

I then shared that with the moderators.

It strikes me as strange that if you don't like overreacting you decide to pin the blame on me. I haven't stalked Politicus online. I haven't threatened her. I haven't made any ugly personal insults towards her. I haven't cursed at her. And she did all of that.

I'm not sure how I could convince you of anything. She said that I should remember that she knows who I am, that she has ways of reaching me and that unless I left the forum there would be real life consequences for me. She has herself admitted that this was done in order to scare me into fearing for my safety.

If your point is that she wasn't actually going to have her Stockholm friends beat me up or whatever, sure. I didn't think that was a very likely scenario either, although not completely impossible. I think threats should probably still not be tolerated and either way it's very much in line with past policy which has seen people banned for less credible threats.

Bottom line though, I think if anyone can be said to have taken things too seriously and overreacted in this situation it really wasn't me.

If anything I'd say I've been fairly restrained in my way of dealing with this especially compared to how most people on here handle their forum conflicts.
25  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Politicus on: October 28, 2015, 11:02:22 am
I wonder why the PM's just weren't ignored instead of copied from one website to the mod cave?  There isn't a requirement to make such a dump in the cave, is there?

Because actions sometimes have consequences. Politicus had many, many chances to chill down and instead opted for constant escalation.

She attempted to run me off the forum with threats so I didn't feel all that sorry for her being banned over it.

It's also not as if her posting my Facebook account on this forum (in this thread actually) is behaviour that would have gone unpunished either.

As I've said before, if you guys genuinely like this psycho you ought to encourage her to seek help for these outbursts rather than defend it as normal. You can hate me all you want (I don't care all that much about that) but get over yourselves. I wouldn't defend someone acting like she did just because the target happened to be a poster I dislike.
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