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251  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Sword of Damocles - (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread) on: December 02, 2016, 03:24:20 am
And by the way,
It appears quite to me that the game has reached a "midterm".
Maybe you could write some big messages about the new position of each country ? A big update about info like in the beginning.

I don't think there's a need for that myself, plus forcing that much work on Lumine probably ends the game right now.
252  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Sword of Damocles - (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread) on: December 01, 2016, 11:26:43 pm
I apologize for my white lie, it was actually three playes determined to their end game. My congratulations to Kingpoleon, NeverAgain and SouthernGothic on their hard work so far, and my personal thanks for taking the time to play the game until now.

This means China, Italy and the UK are open now, although we can start the turn with only the UK if needed be. Since they were deposed, assassinated and arrested (respectively), the three players are not allowed to re-enter as their old countries (unless someone has played them and lost or retired first). They can rejoin as a different country than the ones they played, but I will give priority to new players if there's any.

So I'll leave until Sunday for new players, and then we can begin Early 1930.

And spoiler alert, there's another shock for you at the opening of that turn.

At this point I have to assume you're going to start the turn by killing off another couple of players.

I just want to note that with the exceptions of the USA and France, all players are now representing the first minister to an Emperor. With the exception of China, all the major Empires are well run and popular governments on the rise.

Lol, no, I can confirm it won't be that. This turn was bizarre in that it included the conditions (and the dice rolls) to take away a large number of players, but it's actually the outcome of a player action that's coming to light.

If you can say now, is it a player who is actually still in the game?
253  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Sword of Damocles - (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread) on: December 01, 2016, 11:20:45 pm
I apologize for my white lie, it was actually three playes determined to their end game. My congratulations to Kingpoleon, NeverAgain and SouthernGothic on their hard work so far, and my personal thanks for taking the time to play the game until now.

This means China, Italy and the UK are open now, although we can start the turn with only the UK if needed be. Since they were deposed, assassinated and arrested (respectively), the three players are not allowed to re-enter as their old countries (unless someone has played them and lost or retired first). They can rejoin as a different country than the ones they played, but I will give priority to new players if there's any.

So I'll leave until Sunday for new players, and then we can begin Early 1930.

And spoiler alert, there's another shock for you at the opening of that turn.

At this point I have to assume you're going to start the turn by killing off another couple of players.

I just want to note that with the exceptions of the USA and France, all players are now representing the first minister to an Emperor. With the exception of China, all the major Empires are well run and popular governments on the rise.
254  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Romney sold out on: December 01, 2016, 06:48:58 pm

In your personal life, if your friend "Bob" (just a name) starts trash-talking someone and disclosing them as untrustworthy or a liar who does bad stuff, and continues to say all sorts of ugly things about this other person, but then that person offered Bob a high-paying job and Bob accepted, what would you think of Bob then?

If he truly believed all the bad stuff he was saying about the other guy, why would Bob want to have anything to do with the other guy? How could he live with himself?

But then if Bob was just trash-talking the other guy for a "non" reason, how can you then trust Bob to tell the truth at any other time?

To be fair, Romney hasn't been offered the position of SOS yet and he hasn't accepted a job in the Trump administration, but the fact that he said he would like to work for Trump is enough. Damage is done, IMO.

It tells me that he cares more about getting his policy positions made into law than he does carrying on a pointless grudge that could do nothing to make what he wants to happen happen. If you were an activist against McDonalds for being an all around shady company that uses non-free range chickens and they offered to make you VP in charge of chicken management wouldn't you take it? Sure, you still don't like the company and how they do things but at least you'd be able to do your part to make it at least somewhat better for the chickens.

I think that assumes more power than the Secretary of State actually has - and also assumes that Trump will actually listen to Romney instead of  just keeping him as a trophy.

That's a possibility. That meeting could have been Romney scoping out Trump and his intentions just as much as the other way around.
255  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Romney sold out on: December 01, 2016, 05:48:21 pm

In your personal life, if your friend "Bob" (just a name) starts trash-talking someone and disclosing them as untrustworthy or a liar who does bad stuff, and continues to say all sorts of ugly things about this other person, but then that person offered Bob a high-paying job and Bob accepted, what would you think of Bob then?

If he truly believed all the bad stuff he was saying about the other guy, why would Bob want to have anything to do with the other guy? How could he live with himself?

But then if Bob was just trash-talking the other guy for a "non" reason, how can you then trust Bob to tell the truth at any other time?

To be fair, Romney hasn't been offered the position of SOS yet and he hasn't accepted a job in the Trump administration, but the fact that he said he would like to work for Trump is enough. Damage is done, IMO.

It tells me that he cares more about getting his policy positions made into law than he does carrying on a pointless grudge that could do nothing to make what he wants to happen happen. If you were an activist against McDonalds for being an all around shady company that uses non-free range chickens and they offered to make you VP in charge of chicken management wouldn't you take it? Sure, you still don't like the company and how they do things but at least you'd be able to do your part to make it at least somewhat better for the chickens.
256  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) on: December 01, 2016, 03:14:28 pm
I already feel very popular Smiley
257  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Sword of Damocles - (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread) on: December 01, 2016, 02:07:50 pm
Still a few hours to go as I'm in class and I just had to redo parts of the world map, but dice rolls have determined two players have reached the end game.

Oh dear.
258  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Sword of Damocles - (Sign Up/Rules/Commentary Thread) on: December 01, 2016, 01:05:55 pm
Writing the end of turn, and boy, are we in for some surprises. Without revealing much, at least a player is reach an end game.

Well, RIP me. FF.

RIP Envir Pasha, little did he know all the Sultan's poetry was full of coded messages calling for a coup.

RIP the Japanese Government, assassinated by radical pacifist republicans in the Navy.

RIP Chaing Kai-Shek, taken out by Neo-Boxers angry at his overtly pro-European policies.

RIP President de la Rocque, lost his election to a leftist poet (actually Julian Besteiro in a wig.)

RIP Alexander Kerensky, it turns out the Tsar really DID prefer Kolchak and was waiting to kill you like the traitor-rebel you were.

RIP Churchill, fell asleep during peace negotiations so often a diplomat offed him out of spite.

RIP FDR, throw out of office after repealing MacArthur's sensible and popular economic plans was just too much for the army to handle.

RIP Victor Emmanuel III, usually the Pope believes in non-violence...but for you he made a special exception.

RIP Von Papen, dead after crack Bulgarian troops easily invaded Germany and captured Berlin just before the ceasefire took hold.
259  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) on: November 30, 2016, 06:17:15 pm
Martells? Unless Myrcella somehow ends up in Dorne I'd assume they could wait a few turns. Is there any particular reason they'd be needed immediately?
260  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Transition Team/Cabinet Thread on: November 30, 2016, 12:41:00 pm
Interesting...what could Trump want with Preet Bharara

‏@maggieNYT  7m7 minutes ago
Bharara spokesman tells me he is meeting with Trump today. Reasons unclear.

Solicitor General maybe?
261  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Are we entering a new poltiical era characterized by neo-nationalism? on: November 30, 2016, 12:58:30 am
That is considered an "era"? I doubt this nationalism craze will last for more than a few years and will fizzle out once it gets its chance to fail at governance. I assume it'll be like the Pink Tide in Latin America; it'll sweep in, fail at accomplishing its goals and once an election or two go by order will be restored. Does that count as a whole era?
262  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) on: November 29, 2016, 12:07:49 pm
Lumine, does Daenerys control the dothraki or she didn't kill them all in this scenario?

Will you give us an estimate of our forces ?

I'm excited Cheesy

How would Dany possibly have killed all the Dothraki?
263  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: The Iron Throne, the V ASOIAF Game (Sign Up - Rules Thread) on: November 28, 2016, 11:29:58 pm
I'll try something different. I'll be Littlefinger. Nevermind this. I'll be playing as someone different. I want to stay in KL though so I'll go with Varys.

Are Cersei, Tommen, and Myrcella still in King's Landing fighting it out, were they captured, or did they manage to flee?
264  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 28, 2016, 10:10:03 pm
So, should we post another poll for options 1 or 2 or is there a third option people would like to push?
Well I think as you are the game moderator, this is your choice in the end!

Actually, you're right, xD

Hell, we'll be going with option 1. The game will not start for some time, but the Sign Up & Rules thread will be up tonight, so be prepared (and yes, Windjammer, you can have the Tyrells).

Wouldn't it make more sense that people would blame Renly for killing Joffrey since he never really had Ned's honorable reputation.

Already trying to lay favorable groundwork for your Ned Stark game? You're starting early.
265  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Will your county vote for Trump? on: November 28, 2016, 06:16:11 pm
Duval, FL is a really close one. If Trump wins Florida my county will be one of the places he needs the votes. I haven't seen any enthusiasm for him here but since it hasn't been won by the Dems in years I'll say Trump wins it 48-47.5.

I was right on the money for at least ONE Florida thing this election. Trump won Duval County 49-47.5.
266  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: A new, fresh face for the Democratic Party on: November 28, 2016, 04:34:10 pm
Write-in: Charlie Crist. The hero Democrats deserve.

Edit: wow, he's only 60. I thought he was older than that. He could actually make a run for it...
267  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 28, 2016, 04:20:16 pm
I'd like option 2- the big problem imo with Ned seizing power is that Robb will always march south to save Ned (family, duty, honour and all)

You have a point, but Robb was always bound to march south once Tyrion was captured imo. That's what caused Tywin started raiding the Riverlands and Edmure was just too naive/nice/incompetent to handle that without Stark assistance. It might have meant something different if Robert lived and it didn't devolve into all-out war, but I think a Stark military presence was always going to be necessary.

I see positives in both ideas; for option 2 I like giving the city people something to do, but I worry that they'll go from primary players to completely irrelevant ones within a few turns. If you think you can make it work I say go for that one. Otherwise, option one starts broad and right when alliances start needing to be made, good timing. It'd also make the Stormlands relevant for the first time in any game, ever.
268  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 28, 2016, 02:29:29 pm
Perhaps we could do something after the White Walker invasion? Simulate that war, and human victory, and play as the characters after the war is ended.

Other than that, I like both ideas Lumine came up with.

Could we also do an alteration of the Red Wedding? In which, Robb manages to kill Walder Frey, leading to a Frey civil war.

What you're describing aren't really full games. The big open question with the White Walker invasion is "how will these people who have been at each others throats work together to defeat a greater threat?" If you base a game around that question the answer is obvious: none of the players are invested in their petty squabbles and all team up easily. Then one side or another quickly wins on dice rolls. There's little if any room for the intrigue and shifting alliances which make Westeros so interesting.

A change in the outcome of the Red Wedding is also not a large enough change to sustain a whole game. It makes the North different, sure, but for most players everything stays exactly the same. Robb sans the Freys, Karstarks, and Boltons isn't in a good position to fight, especially with Ironborn in Winterfell and Moat Cailin. Tywin/Tyrion, the Tyrells, the Martells, Daenerys, the Ironborn, and Lysa/Littlefinger are still in more or less the exact same position and have no reason to change anything. The change has to be significant enough or far enough back that EVERYONE has to plan differently. Otherwise, if we're doing a straight up War of the Five Kings we might as well start off from right when Ned dies and just let the chips fall where they may. I still don't like that plan, but its better than starting mid-war.
269  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 28, 2016, 12:37:42 am
How do you play?

Word to the wise, don't believe everything you hear from other players (including me Tongue ).

Yes, well, chronic backstabbing is one of the hallmarks of these games, with quite a few epic examples of betrayal (including King's Landing blowing up and killing half a million people). I'd recommend reading over The Lion and the Rose as a good example as how we play, but the idea is for players to interact with each other, make decisions to crisis, lead their armies (this is crucial) and handle intrigue in order to survive.

I do plan on changing the gameplay this time, I'm toying to make a week of RL time into a month IG and eliminate formal three-month turns, but I have to consider whether it will work. Additionally, I will be borrowing the "special abilities" idea from Badgate and X, and repeating the guest POV idea from The Lion and the Rose.

Important:

I want to give the game a different feel based on the background, so I'd like to see the possibility of changing the outcome of a few events in A Game of Thrones or Season 1 to give us a different storyline. For example, I'm considering having Viserys Targaryen survive and never meet Khal Drogo, or having Ned Stark survive or even win (temporarily) the power struggle in King's Landing.

Would people prefer an altered storyline or everything being as it was on the book+show at the start of the War of the Five Kings?

For me, I'd need to know the specific alterations (ex: I'd be fine with Viserys surviving, but am not so keen on Ned surviving the KL struggle b/c it'd give Stannis an unfair advantage).

How is drastically affecting the fortunes of one claimant OK but another not? I assume that Lumine will think of a way to balance these things out so there's no (non-Tyrell) superpower. Any changes that are not purely cosmetic (like replacing some bit characters or practically unknown vassals) will end up creating large changes to the calculations each lord would make in Westeros.

Just from that example, I'd be interested in the possibilities leaving Ned alive would create because it would actually give the Starks something to do other than revenge-secession. Plus, in every game we've played so far King's Landing has been practically worthless and the primarily KL based players (such as Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys) have had little to do and quickly lost/left because of it. Keeping the cold war in KL going a little longer gives those players something to do while making the Tully/Lannister/Ser Beric spats pretty illegal violations of the King's Peace, which could require more diplomacy on that front.

As I indicated in my previous post, I don't think a total replay of the War of Five Kings is fun. We know EXACTLY what each player/faction will try to achieve for a while. For example, know Tywin will recruit mercs (not allies though, because nobody like the Lannisters) and try to save KL while burning the Riverlands, the Starks will attack anyone in the Riverlands while waiting for the inevitable Bolton betrayal, the Ironborn will ineffectually raid, the Tyrells will fight for Renly because of their marriage pact, Lysa will futz around until dying, and the Martells are too far to do anything until the Targs come. Some player might sit at the Wall with little to do while another might try to scheme to little gain in King's Landing. The only players with much capacity for changing how they operate are the Targaryen and MAYBE Lysa and Stannis.

I support as much variation from the original scenario as you are willing to do Lumine. Make us actually have to think (in and out of character) about what our objectives should be and what to do to succeed with them instead of running on book/show autopilot.
270  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 26, 2016, 07:20:00 pm
How do you play?

There are lots of examples on this board of similar games most of which involve ASoIaF. If you'd like to see more or less how Lumine's games work I'd suggest starting with his most recent ASoIaF game, the Lion and the Rose for which the rules are here.
271  Forum Community / Election and History Games / Re: An upcoming ASOIAF game (Ideas & Suggestions) on: November 26, 2016, 03:09:27 pm
I voted for the Death of Kings. For me, the goal has to be preventing burnout. You stop burnout by keeping things fluid and fast paced and not putting too much on the GM. From my view, Fire and Blood looks like too much of a risk of creating these. We don't have as many sources for the Dance as we do for the other two scenarios and that creates a lot of blank spaces when considering personalities, alliances, children, and vassals. I think dealing with so many unknowns is a big part of what doomed Leo's game as well as a few other games on this board that couldn't get off the ground.

Of course, trying something new IS nice; we all know by now how X-Tywin/Bolton or Spamage-Tyrell will play in the Wot5K and the After the False Spring went off the rails so fast I don't think it counts as a Robert's Rebellion game.
272  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Fidel Castro dead at 90 on: November 26, 2016, 12:45:35 am
RIP, HP
273  General Discussion / Constitution and Law / Re: Can a President fire his Vice President in mid term.......... on: November 19, 2016, 10:29:45 pm
The Vice President isn't just a member of the cabinet; they're a fully elected officer just like the President. While practically the VP choice belongs to the President, in constitutional terms that choice belongs totally in the hands of the electoral college. The only way they could be removed before the end of their term is impeachment.
274  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads) on: November 19, 2016, 09:09:41 pm
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?action=profile;u=152;sa=showPosts
275  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Public Discussion on the Supreme Court Cases (Avoid Cluttering Case Threads) on: November 19, 2016, 08:39:05 pm
Once Gass has been confirmed, I hope this will come to an end quickly.

It would be highly improper for a justice to vote on a case when they missed oral arguments.
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