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1  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Who is worse? Satan or God? on: July 01, 2017, 12:27:18 am
Satan doesn't tell people what to do with a long list of rules and he hasn't killed millions of people. He doesn't tell you to not use his name is vain and he doesn't go around putting curses on individuals.

God is basically a police officer in deity form.

Satan means "the accuser". Please flesh out your analogy in light of this fact.
2  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Opinion of the Hajj on: June 28, 2017, 08:16:09 pm
     Santiago de Compostela is a famous Christian pilgrimage site, with over a quarter of a million people last year traveling the Camino de Santiago. BRTD can't do that though, because it's Catholic.

Good point: there are tons of locations associated with different Christian saints, and any one of them could serve as a focus of pilgrimage.

Of course, if we want to avoid the "Mecca problem", we might have to start sanctifying more Americans.
3  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Religiosity poll on: June 28, 2017, 08:02:55 pm
1 - Religion/spirituality is very important in my life
2 - I seldom or never attend a religious service
3 - I pray/meditate daily
4 - I believe in a God/higher power, but with some doubt
5 - I consider myself religious
4  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What happened to Jesus of Nazareth? on: June 19, 2017, 12:39:47 pm
This post helps prove my point: If the Muslim Jesus doesn't fit the Jewish definition of the messiah, and he doesn't fit the Christian definition of the messiah, then why do they call him the messiah?

This doesn't really answer the other questions the Muslim account of Jesus raises, but the obvious answer is "because He fits the Muslim definition of the messiah".

I get that. It's just, why would anyone believe the Muslim definition of the messiah (which is never actually given to a satisfactory degree) over the Jewish or Christian definitions of the messiah, which predate it by centuries? Which definition is most likely to be authentic, and which is most likely to be a fabrication? But this is a criticism of Islam in general I guess.

If Muslims had a better knowledge of the Bible (sanctified by Muhammad himself as divinely-inspired), they could probably give a respectable answer to my query. I'm sure Muslims believe that everything they need to know is already contained in the Quran, and I guess I understand that, but I still think that that ignorance is causing us to miss a huge opportunity for interfaith dialogue.
5  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What happened to Jesus of Nazareth? on: June 18, 2017, 11:36:30 pm
I mean, there was no preexisting Jewish tradition that a Messiah would be divine or immune from death. King David is granted the title "Annointed One" (Literally Messiah) and he was neither of those things. He was the powerful and successful king who seized Jerusalem and made it the capital of the Israelite kingdom...which is more or less what the ancient Jews were expecting their Messiah to be: a descendant of David who would seize Jerusalem and the Holy Land and start a new holy Kingdom ruled by the line of David.

Christianity changes the story dramatically because it claims Jesus was not only the Messiah of the Jews, but, more importantly, was the Son of God and, by extension, Savior of all Mankind. To the Christian, Jesus not establishing a kingdom in Israel is irrelevant because he rules over a more important Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus' death is a sign of success, not failure.

It's just worth keeping in mind that that perspective, the Christian one, is very much a flipped script and a radical departure from the traditional concept of what a Messiah would look like (and a massive departure from the idea of what a Messiah would look like that Jews are still waiting for).

This post helps prove my point: If the Muslim Jesus doesn't fit the Jewish definition of the messiah, and he doesn't fit the Christian definition of the messiah, then why do they call him the messiah?
6  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What happened to Jesus of Nazareth? on: June 18, 2017, 12:06:45 am
As Muslims, we don't believe Jesus ever died on the cross but was saved by God before he could be crucified and will return in the End Times and destroy the Cross of those who distorted his message.

The only account of Jesus's message we have is contained in the gospels, where he insists repeatedly on the necessity of his own death, often citing scripture to support his position. The Muslim position here is untenable.

Not that I'm a Muslim or anything, but how can we possibly know if the Gospel account is accurate? It could have easily been telephone-gamed or deliberate altered due to the agendas of the first- and second-century writers.

Even though Muslims don't believe Jesus was divine, they do believe that he was the Messiah to the Jews, which Jesus also claimed of himself. Now, Muslims have never really gone into what that means, but in the gospels, Jesus does - and in every one of them, he emphasizes the importance of his own death. You could say that the gospel writers were just trying to account for the execution of their cult leader by making up preposterous stories (something that other religious and secular cults don't do, btw), but if you're a Muslim, it makes more sense to believe that Jesus would have explained the circumstances of his death to his apostles before the event. Which leaves unexplained the question of why his followers would need to invent anything - and why those faithful among them would tolerate such inventions!
7  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Is Joshua Chapter 5 meant to cut off so abruptly? on: June 16, 2017, 02:05:57 pm
Since there's nothing particularly special about the city of Jericho, I think the point is that every foot of ground in the Promised Land is holy.

This is a lot less confusing to me than the part in Exodus where God makes an attempt on Moses's life (immediately after interviewing him on Mount Horeb), only to retreat when Zipporah anoints her husband with their son's foreskin.
8  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What happened to Jesus of Nazareth? on: June 15, 2017, 04:36:56 am
As Muslims, we don't believe Jesus ever died on the cross but was saved by God before he could be crucified and will return in the End Times and destroy the Cross of those who distorted his message.

The only account of Jesus's message we have is contained in the gospels, where he insists repeatedly on the necessity of his own death, often citing scripture to support his position. The Muslim position here is untenable.
9  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What happened to Jesus of Nazareth? on: June 11, 2017, 03:28:49 pm
You can believe in the resurrection as a matter of faith, but not as a matter of history. The New Testament is not a book of history. If Jesus was a historical figure, how was he historical (which is not the same as saying he didn't exist; he more than likely existed as a 'canvas'?) That's the question. Philo, Damis, Clovius Rufus, Pliny etc don't mention him. Much of what is claimed as evidence of early Christianity/Christians is often preserved only in apologist rebuttals. Cassius Dio's Roman History has 6 to 2 BCE and 30 CE missing for example. Quite a lot of what would establish Jesus as a historical figure (and detract from him as a supernatural figure) doesn't survive for the same reason as early Christian works contrary to the Roman Church don't survive. Building a state religion requires a lot of clerical 'assistance'.

Your post contains another reason for the lack of historical data regarding Jesus the man: If we could "establish Jesus as a historical figure", we would abolish his universal character, and thus make it impossible for him to be the savior of mankind.

Incidentally, my preferred account of Jesus' resurrection is contained in Mark 16:1-8 (ignoring both the shorter and longer endings which follow it).
10  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Pakistan Census: Literacy FALLING, not rising. on: May 29, 2017, 02:22:56 am
I guess they aren't very good students, huh?

...

I'll show myself out.
11  General Politics / Book Reviews and Discussion / Re: Recommendations On "Unrest" on: May 27, 2017, 12:16:20 am
The Political Thought of Sayyid Qutb: The Theory of Jahiliyyah and The Power of Sovereignty: The Political and Ideological Philosophy of Sayyid Qutb. These sequential books trace the movement of Islamism in the post-colonial Middle East, but in so doing, they also explore the influence of colonialism on the political thought of a colonized people, the fundamental features of the Western worldview (as perceived by those outside of it), and the ideal relationship between religion and the state.
12  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What were the most anti-christian regimes ever? on: May 24, 2017, 06:00:29 pm
traditional Western distaste for Orthodoxy)

I've naught heard of this before. How "traditional", exactly, is it?
13  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 24, 2017, 09:09:11 am
That's like most other afterlife options... the living don't know if the dead are really dead or not, but the dead all appear, well, dead.

Proof that it belongs on your list, no?

Quote
What is "life" like in this? What do you think? What do you do?


I imagine that it will be like our life in the world, except true instead of false.

I also possess the persistent fantasy that when humanity wakes from its collective dream, Adam will again find himself in paradise.

Quote
How can you tell that time is going by, that it's "forever"?

In Catholic theology, "eternity" is said to be an attribute to the mind of God, where all things happen simultaneously. That sounds right.

Quote
Or is it like I originally thought you were describing... you "see the light," it's the last thing you perceive, and then you're dead, that's it.

Nah, that can't possibly be it: if our consciousness were at any point to be erased, life should be to us a memory that we forgot. Which is, of course, no memory at all.

Quote
I'd also like to point out that not all people who are "dead" for a little while and come back actually have near-death-experiences.

If some people aren't cut out to live forever, that hardly invalidates my hypothesis.

Quote
Also, for some people who die, like in an explosion, there's no time for the brain to process what's happening.

There's time enough for the brain to die, isn't there?
14  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 23, 2017, 05:09:36 pm
It's the opposite of clear, it just becomes more and more obscure.

You either survive death, or you don't.

From others' perspective, you die; from your own perspective, you live on.
15  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 23, 2017, 03:39:50 pm
That's not an answer.
1. the human mind literally continues after death and hallucinates for eternity (an afterlife of eternal hallucination)
2. there's a hallucination when dying that makes a person feel like they're going to live forever, then they die (no afterlife, option 10 in my list)

Which one?

A cross between the two.

I don't know how I can make myself any clearer.
16  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 23, 2017, 03:02:29 pm
So are you saying or not saying that the human mind continues forever after death in this explanation?

Yes. Subjectively.
17  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 23, 2017, 12:11:52 am
?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You're saying people eternally "hallucinate" an afterlife after they're brain-dead?

I'm saying that the afterlife is a hallucination, generated before we die, which we perceive to last forever. For proof that we can subjectively prolong the duration of time, ask anyone who's smoked weed or taken psychedelic drugs; for proof that we can subjectively live on even after our brain has died, consult one of the many accounts of man's near-death experiences.
18  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 22, 2017, 11:26:08 am
Well, it's not. It's a list of what actually might happen after you die. Not what might happen as you're dying but not after you're dead.

If the hallucinations of the dying can subjectively persist even when the subject is legally dead, then that counts as an afterlife.
19  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Tender's megathread on crime in Austria on: May 22, 2017, 12:00:12 am
Do no white Austrians commit crimes for you to report on? Or do you prefer to focus on the minorities?

"Whataboutery in response to gang rape - not a good look!"
20  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: What are ALL the afterlife options (Heaven/Hell, Reincarnation, No Afterlife...) on: May 21, 2017, 11:55:04 pm
And the option above about it being a "hallucination" is not an option.

Rude.
21  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Greatest I am on: May 20, 2017, 09:19:53 am
If you want consistent quality, I suggest that you migrate to AAD.

"Let's keep this forum crappy so we can keep boasting about how much better ours is!"

Did you read the rest of my post? It's not that I want this forum to be crappy, it's just that it serves a different purpose.
22  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Greatest I am on: May 20, 2017, 12:51:09 am
That said, now that I've seen that he can "beaten" (in the same way that one beats a video game, not in the way that one beats an interlocutor), I'm in favor of keeping him around.

But why? Even if we assume he's not trolling, how is the manner in which he posts not spamming? How does his manner of interacting with other posters not constitute personal attack? The persistent refusal to do anything about a poster who behaves like this other than MAYBE deleting a few of his posts OCCASIONALLY is utterly bizarre to contemplate and, to be frank, I very strongly doubt that he'd be shown nearly so much laxity if it were any other board than R&P to which he were doing this.

If you want consistent quality, I suggest that you migrate to AAD. The reason I don't support the banning of DL, in spite of the fact that his behavior violates the norms of any serious discussion forum, is that I no longer consider this a serious discussion forum: rather, I view it as a place to "take a load off", and trolling Greatest I am has become a routine part of that experience.
23  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Kalwejt Foundation for the Promotion of Atlas Hilarity on: May 19, 2017, 12:14:57 pm
beer without alcohol is like sex without orgasm

no thnx bruh

Forever laughing at people who needlessly waste their Jing by orgasming during sex. Taoism is the final redpill.
24  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Greatest I am on: May 19, 2017, 09:26:29 am
The sadder spectacle is the need for a circle jerk of posters in the RandP board who persistently engage with him. He clearly can't be that much of a problem if they're getting a kick out of it.

It's hard to ignore a poster who makes it a point to reply to every single post in every single thread.

That said, now that I've seen that he can "beaten" (in the same way that one beats a video game, not in the way that one beats an interlocutor), I'm in favor of keeping him around.
25  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Gnosticism, or mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity? on: May 18, 2017, 11:12:54 am
The learned explain what they mean and do not just throw labels around, but you have show  that my "Perhaps that was not your intent." was right on the mark.

Perhaps if your intention was to learn, you would read a book (or a Wikipedia article) once in a while, rather than begging someone with authority to spoonfeed you via YouTube video.
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