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1  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: I thought Congres. GOP were supposed to be lapdogs, who’d always vote with Trump on: March 24, 2017, 10:04:14 pm
Sorry to do this guys, but examples of what I’m talking about…

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

It really doesn't matter if there are crossovers now.  Today's vote shows that fifty Republicans are cowards who will happily vote in lockstep with their Fuhrer regardless of how unwise it is, and that's all that's needed.

Bold Prediction - zero Republicans cross over to vote against Puzder, Puzder makes it through 52-48.

Better question, will any Republican vote against any of the remaining nominees?

Better question yet, will any of the 50 cowards ever oppose Trump in any meaningful way? (i.e. not just talk it abstractly, a la "maaaaaaaaybe I'll have to vote against Tillerson Tongue")

Of course, this was a failure in the House rather than the Senate, but the same thing would’ve happened if the Senate had gone first.  The fact that they were willing to approve his entire Cabinet except Puzder didn’t actually mean that they’d always go along with him on policy.

The argument some folks seemed to be buying into was that Trump had some sort of unique mind meld with the GOP base, and that would insulate him from defections.  The fact that he spoke with a 4th grade level vocabulary and insulted people made him some kind of working class hero, which made his support from the base more "authentic"....or something.

It's much more common to vote against your party on legislation than on a cabinet appointment.

     It still makes the point that Congressional Republicans are something more than a rubber-stamp to the Trump Administration agenda. Many of them showed less sense than would be desirable (not that this is anything new out of the House), but it does hurt the "Trump as fascist dictator" meme that some people have been pushing. A fascist dictator would have had more success doing something of this sort.

Angry rants aside, the point is not that Trump IS a fascist dictator, it is that he WANTS to be a fascist dictator. (Or at least be free to act like one.) Our saving grace is that Trump is not merely evil, he is grossly incompetent at everything save conning suckers.

That incompetence may come to hurt the nation badly, but it also means his efforts at turning the Presidency of the United States in a corrupt autocracy are as pathetic as they are petty. That doesn't mean they cannot be dangerous, just that Trump is more likely to end up like Commodus than Augustus.

While repeal/replacing Obamacare might have met the same fate with any of Trump's primary opponents in the White House, I am very skeptical any of them (even Rubio or Carson) would have so much ostentatious and uncoordinated ineptitude in execution. That the "winner" and "master of the deal" responded to setbacks by throwing tantrums and pointing fingers does a better job discrediting him than anything else I can say.
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Neil Gorsuch Confirmation Hearing *DISCUSSION AND LIVE COMMENTARY* on: March 24, 2017, 08:56:43 pm

This is just an excuse to cave.

it's the best imaginable deal right now.

The best imaginable deal is:
- No filibuster against Gorsuch
- Democrats allow free conscience vote(no whipping)
- Kennedy(if he retires or dies) must be replaced by a moderate
- A Democratic Justice must be replaced by someone like Merrick Garland(provide shortlist of Justices between Garland, Breyer, and Sandra Day O'Connor)

Hah. Trump's less trustworthy than rabid weasel.  Just ask all the contractors he's stiffed.

The bet imaginable outcome is:
-Democrats filibuster every nominee until the election is over.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 07:03:43 pm
Trump's not totally wrong though: The massive premium hikes are not going over well with the working class and it will depend on how effectively Republicans and Trump will tie this to the Democrats before the next elections. If Democrats don't find a proper message on their own they cannot simply rely on the Republicans to implode. They need to work for it and the best way to do so would be to find a bipartisan way to reign in the premium hikes. Otherwise it will really explode on the Democrats sooner or later because they are the architects of this ...

Blame Trump, the GOP, and deregulation.

"Your health care would still be cheap if Hillary won and we had a D majority in the Senate! Trump and the GOP sold you out to Big Insurance!"

That truth doesn't matter with Trump voters is a double-edged sword. That the Dems can add a second cut of, "Why didn't the GOP and Trump fix it?" is just frosting.
4  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 04:47:56 pm

"We never really wanted to repeal Obamacare. But aren't you glad we lied to you all those years, voters?"

Good thing they've cultivated the moron half of the bell curve. Any party with remotely perceptive voters would be dead after this. Then again, if they had voters capable of independent critical thought, they wouldn't be the GOP we know and loathe.
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: I thought Congres. GOP were supposed to be lapdogs, who’d always vote with Trump on: March 24, 2017, 03:31:16 pm
The Trump Administration, and maybe more importantly the reputation/perception of the Trump administration among everyone but his devout cultists, has gone down perceptibly since a month ago.

I think any and all members of the GOP bear the guilt of supporting and electing Trump, but its clear that there is a line between people (in and out of government) who are part of the cult, and those who just don't see anything wrong with him or working with him. The latter seem to be figuring out that while Candidate Trump had a degree of success, President Trump is a bumbling yet despicable idiot-clown.
6  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 03:08:51 pm

Trump isn't bringing up healthcare again anytime soon per @costareports

Of course not. He has a long, long history of running from failures and then either spinning them or trying to pretend they never happened. He won't be able to do that with health care. "Obamacare" is now going to be an albatross around the necks of the Trumpublicans.

Obamacare keeps working: they tried to kill it.
Obamacare fails: they failed to replace/fix it.
7  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 03:05:27 pm

The bill would have passed if it weren't for all the illegal "no" votes.

Let's not give Trump ideas. He has too many bad ideas as it is.
8  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 02:41:12 pm
Is he going to follow through on his threat? Or claim he never made it to begin with? Or will he just do the used car salesman dance and try to weasel out of it?
9  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 02:39:16 pm

Hearing from multiple GOP sources that leadership is desperate to pull this bill.

Nothing is stopping Ryan from pulling the bill. It's ultimately his decision, not the President's.

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If Ryan pulls the bill, Trump will blame him. If they hold a floor vote and it fails, Trump will blame Ryan anyway. Trump has already committed to throwing Ryan under the bus, easy to do since Breitbart and Co. have been setting him up as a fall guy for months.

I can't tell if trashing Ryan like this would be a brilliant bit of political backstabbing (removing a prime alternative locus of power to Trump in the GOP), or a self-destructive side-show that does the party lasting damage with no real return (the equivalent of a man setting his house on fire as a distraction from the fact that he just crashed and destroyed the family car).
10  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Scandals Make His Voters Like Him More on: March 24, 2017, 02:23:26 pm

His voters are idiots.

We can just try to outnumber them right back, and hopefully win enough elections that matter to shut the idiots and their users down. Or flee, like Germans in the 30s.
11  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Eric Trump Says He'll Give His Dad Financial Reports On The Family Business on: March 24, 2017, 12:01:12 pm
By electing Trump and then allowing him to serve in office with his multiple and varied conflicts of interest, the underlying idea that elected officials should not be able to privately benefit from their actions as ostensible public servants is dead and buried. The precise details have ceased to matter.

Like much of the other rot in our government this century, this is making explicit what was previously widely practiced but deniable. And it is a major step in the wrong direction. One of many we have seen and will continue to see under the Trumpublican regime.

I should really stop worry about how to save the country and start putting more effort into getting out of it.
12  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 24, 2017, 10:18:37 am
Rofl, left excitement because of a NY Times story. Some will never learn... #FakeNews

Very clever done by Trump: Negotiate, make concessions, changes and make clear that either THAT will become law or nothing will change and Obamacare will stay in place.

The people see that it's not the Presidents fault but the Congress fault and a lot of GOP voters will be furious with their Representatives but not with him.

Indeed, very clever.

What still is embarrassing is the amount of ill-preparation by the GOP Leadership. Talking for 7 years but not capable of making a bill that gets broad support. Ryan has to go, what a clown.

Trumpot  could walk out onto the White House lawn, douse himself with gasoline and strike up a match, and before the fire was out his cultists would be blaming oil companies poor safety record and Obama's lousy maintenance of the White House sprinkler system.
13  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump's threat on healthcare on: March 24, 2017, 08:03:11 am
orange president

How old are you? 5?

Over the last years, Don "The Puppet" Pussygrabber  has clearly demonstrated at length what he feels are appropriate forms of address for prominent holders of public office. To grant him anything less would be disrespectful.
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: How will Donald Trump be remembered in 2066? on: March 24, 2017, 12:04:42 am
Much like Hoover, only without any redeeming qualities.
15  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 23, 2017, 07:00:24 pm
Time to write a new bill, there's plenty of time, take an Easter break and start over again. Better a good solution after a failed start than a bad solution causing problems in the Midterms.

That sounds entirely rational, I'm skeptical President Pussygrabber's poor fragile ego can take such a devastating blow. The resulting epic tantrum could destroy what cohesion the GOP has left.

Although I suppose it might be possible to distract him with something big and shiny and then get a little governing done while he's occupied.
16  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 23, 2017, 03:29:11 pm
So much winning!

Let's not get too cocky. We can wait 48 hours before mocking them.
17  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 23, 2017, 03:13:52 pm
Trump just said that he is looking forward to the house vote today.

who is going to tell him?

No one. The tweets and comments about the great things "his" non-existent healthcare law is doing should be entertaining.
18  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 23, 2017, 01:54:48 pm

Edward-Isaac Dovere‏ @IsaacDovere  21m21 minutes ago
Sean Spicer, on the possibility of canceling the Obamacare repeal vote: "nothing leads me to believe that that's the case"

Mark Murray‏ @mmurraypolitics  5m5 minutes ago
"It's going to pass. So that's it" -- Spicer on what happens if House bill doesn't pass tonight.
Ryan has a death wish. Maybe Trump put him up to this so he'd fail.

Guessing this is one more example of Trump's reality denial / Dunning-Kruger in action, and he forced Ryan to go ahead with the vote (via threats and whining, he obviously can't actually order it). Presuming that Ryan & Co can't beat enough votes into line, it will be very educational to see what happens when it fails. (I'd expect an epic meltdown on twitter.)
19  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Neil Gorsuch Confirmation Hearing *DISCUSSION AND LIVE COMMENTARY* on: March 23, 2017, 09:50:08 am

20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AHCA Whip Count on: March 23, 2017, 12:18:24 am
Meadows is truly embarrassing - it looks like the Freedom Caucus is going to cave.

They Tea Party Republicans have always come to heel when their corporate paymasters whistled.

21  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Who suggested Trump choose Paul Manafort as Campaign Manager? on: March 22, 2017, 11:54:38 pm
I'm sure this has been discussed.. but I can't find where... But Who suggested Trump choose Paul Manafort as Campaign Manager? (was it Flynn or Roger Stone or someone else? If someone else, who?)

It's possible Trump or someone close to him did. Manafort is his tenant and neighbour, and Trump's campaign was well into meltdown organizationally.
22  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Report: FBI links Trump team to communication with Russians on: March 22, 2017, 07:18:29 pm
If proven, will even this be enough? (I certainly hope it will, but he's like a B-movie villain.)
23  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: AP: Manafort had a $10 million annual contract to benefit Putin government on: March 22, 2017, 07:12:35 pm
Spicer had the gall to say Manafort played "a limited role" in the campaign, by implication casting him off as indefensible. This surely must be tired by now, but just how low is the regard in which these people hold Americans, to think they might ever buy this? That Trump's campaign chairman was a minor figure in the campaign he was chairing? How does one even begin to respond to a claim like that?

They think their own followers are sub-human morons. And they are effectively right.

They think they have enough dedicated support from others with their own (deplorable) reasons, that as long as a they can dangle the right carrots (money for defense contractors, theocracy for the rightwingnuts, xenophobia for the rascists and bigots, etc) they will be defended. And they are mostly right there, too.

We can work to build a party that can boot the Trumpublicans from power, that can stand up to their worst offenses, that can stand up and shout that the emperor has no clothes. (And then publish funny pictures of  the naked emperor and his little hands on the internet.) Until we can impeach Trump and boot his toadies and whisperers and crowd of malevolent clowns out, we can point and laugh, and remember to be outraged. Do not allow the Trumpist assault on reason to succeed, or to become the new normal.
24  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Neil Gorsuch: 'employers should ask women if they want children' on: March 22, 2017, 05:20:24 pm
Easy way to destroy the fertility rate

Would be some silver lining imo

Yes indeed for all the talk of a "Culture of Life" and "Someone Else's Babies", Republicans sure do make it difficult to have and raise children.

The Republicans are pro-pregnancy, nothing more.
25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: BREAKING: Trump claims Obama wire tapped Trump Tower. on: March 22, 2017, 04:35:17 pm
This looks alot like the Hillary/Comey email thing:

Kasie Hunt ✔ @kasie
NUNES tells me he can't show Dem ranking member Schiff any of the reports because Nunes/the committee doesn't have them in their possession

Nunes is throwing himself under the bus to save Trump

Except this doesn't save Trump at all.

That, and Nunes is in a safe R district where he is regularly re elected with wide margins. Unless he hates DC falling on the sword for Trump makes zero sense

Remember, it's a cult, and Nunes is a cultist, too for all that he's also a sort of Trump-apostle.

Trump's Razor tells us not to discount how stupid and petty team Trump can be.

If there's anything good coming out of this, it's that the need for a special prosecutor is becoming even more apparent. The GOP can either appoint one, or open admit they're abandoning legal, democratic governance.
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