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3026  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 10:48:59 am
What's the atmosphere like in the Netherlands right now over this?

The BBC just posted this on their update page:

Quote
"Everyone knows someone who was on that plane," Natalie Righton, journalist for Dutch newspaper Volkskrant, tells the BBC.

"Our King and Queen have also signed a book of condolences for the families. It has ripped us all apart."
3027  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 10:00:56 am
Also wondering if anyone was killed on the ground.
3028  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 09:47:06 am
RT is literally showing a "media bias" piece every 10 minutes.
3029  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the Russian seperatist rebels in Ukraine on: July 18, 2014, 09:32:14 am
Russia had a claim to the Crimea, but that was about it. As soon as these guys declared a "People's Republic", I realized that they have lost it. The Russians have given up hope on them as well, it appears.

No, they didn't.
3030  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread on: July 18, 2014, 07:32:47 am
My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.

What the hell are you talking about?

You're always so worked up about something. I mean, I largely agree with you but I just imagine you shouting all the time.
3031  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 18, 2014, 06:51:58 am
Local newspapers in Malaysia are reporting PM Najib Razak's grandmother was on the flight.

Lavrov says Russia will not seize the black box, as per RT.
3032  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 11:58:35 pm
Why the "True Leftists" aren't denouncing the real war criminal, for once?

Who besides Snowstalker or TNF, who are always going to be all "muh nazis", is not denouncing these people. The Russians are very clearly the war criminals. And with that I guess I ought to get to sleep to prepare for what horrors we have planned for tomorrow.
3033  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 11:34:15 pm
Quote
Putin is a master spinner, this is what RT is reporting


Pathetic. I mean one has four engines and the other two! I'm sure they get off on intimating the Ukrainians are mentally challenged but this is beyond belief.
3034  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 11:15:07 pm
RT - is trotting out a conspiracy theory that MH17 was confused for the Russian Presidential jet... So it seems the Kremlin is spinning and deflecting HARD

I like the idea that this was meant as a cover for the invasion of Gaza, if only because of my "conspiracy theory" that Russia hijacked MH370 to divert world attention from... the Ukraine. Poor Ukraine, and poor Malaysia, I suppose. But seriously, these guys are flailing. Putin didn't even try to give a valid reason for blaming Ukraine.

Usually Russia et al can get away with these sorts of things because of "South-South solidarity"  and all that but this is all so blatant that they'll be backed into a corner. You wonder, for example, how they intend to keep the black box. At the very least, this is going to make Russia unpopular in parts of the world. I mean at this juncture it's reasonably clear what happened so we just have to see how this plays out, and hope it can hasten the end of the conflict in Ukraine.

It is going to see how this affects the Netherlands. This must be the most Dutch civilians killed... since the war, I imagine? I'd be shocked if it doesn't have a permanent effect. But as for the TVs... I'd prefer that, yes.

EDIT: Actually I suppose the Tenerife disaster would actually qualify- how many of the victims were Dutch?

EDIT: And we've all seen this, right?
3035  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 09:38:19 pm
Why do I feel like that all these planes bunched together isn't going to end well?

Also MH is offering all flights free until July 25th. They seem done for.

You do realize that planes aren't as big as they may appear to be on that map.

Yes, I do...

As for the flights... that's an error on my part. They will waive all fees regarding changing flights, at least according to a tweet by the BBC.
3036  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 09:04:21 pm
Why do I feel like that all these planes bunched together isn't going to end well?

Also MH is offering all flights free until July 25th. They seem done for.
3037  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 08:46:14 pm
Death toll rises by three as "infants are counted". I wonder how much of this is true. We're being told there were "80 children" on board, and now a surfeit of AIDS researchers. I mean they can't all be true at the same time.
3038  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 08:19:46 pm
Most likely the rebels brought down the plane, as it would be very unlikely for trained operators to confuse it with a military plane. However, since the Ukrainian government must have known that the Buks were captured for nearly three weeks, why didn't they close the airspace over the region?

I mean, it's not unheard of, not even from us.
3039  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Happy Birthday, Angela Merkel. on: July 17, 2014, 08:17:32 pm
Uh... happy birthday?
3040  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 07:56:53 pm
Quote
"This tragedy would not have happened, if there had been peace on that land, or in any case, if military operations in southeastern Ukraine had not been renewed," Putin said in televised remarks. "And without a doubt the government of the territory on which it happened bears responsibility for this frightening tragedy."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_inthenews

Putin even seems to be saying this Ukraine's fault in a vague and imprecise sense rather than stating that Ukraine shot it down.
3041  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 07:31:39 pm
This apparently exists. I mean there's an actual facebook account and everything that clearly isn't made up. I guess I the chances of a person on an MH flight making a quip about it were high enough but, I mean...

Does it really change things, though? Are we going to war because some disparate mercs. ed up?  Russia will try to spin this and create a cloud over who actually did it.  People inclined to mistrust the West will just believe the CIA did it anyway.

I forget which poster has been putting up the good articles in the other thread about the separatist factions internal infighting.  Besler and co. wanted a victory and innocent people paid the price.

Well people in this country are going to want "action", whatever that might entail. But the idea that this is somehow not "our business" will dissipate completely. The fact that these people were clearly bragging about shooting down some plane in the same village at the same time is... well if one is not persuaded by what comes next then there's no point in trying.
3042  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 07:16:05 pm
Simfan, the separatists thought they downed another Ukrainian military cargo plane and started spreading the word.  Once on scene they  realized they ed up and started backpedaling.

Horrible crash site scenes...real ugly. RIP to all.


That's what it looks like. I'm surprised the Russian articles haven't been deleted yet. Anyway, the Independent notes that the passengers are as follows:

Quote
The passengers on the flight included 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 38 Malaysians - including 15 crew -, 11 people from Indonesia, four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines and one Canadian, BBC News reported an airport official as having said. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian Interior Ministry said 23 US citizens were travelling on the aircraft. The nationalities of the remaining passengers were still being confirmed. 80 children were also on board, according to various agencies reporting from the scene.

The separate mention of Americans is odd, but let us be honest- if there are 23 Americans this changes things quite a bit more than they would otherwise.
3043  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread on: July 17, 2014, 07:04:08 pm
My contribution is: I ABSOLUTELY HATE both sides of this "debate".

Simfan, make yourself a favour and block this piece of s***

Uh, what?

I might take his advice if you don't calm down. I mean, really.
3044  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 06:47:57 pm
I'm not the only one whose first thought was "this is an incomprehensibly terrible joke by [whoever's telling me this] and I'm not going to interact with them ever again," am I? Now, I was "informed" of this by the BBC News webpage so obviously the idea that the BBC would be playing a "joke" like this is highly improbable... but the thought that a Malaysia Airlines 777 would be crashing, again, anytime in the distant future, much less now, was so utterly implausible as to render the other thought relatively believable. A rather specific reaction, but I've had three people tell me already they thought that the person who told them of this or the site they saw it on was playing some kind of sick joke.

I mean, what? Apparently, also RIA Novosti is reporting (as of 11 AM) that militiamen shot down a "Ukrainian An-26". I don't know what that is (as in whether or not it was really an An-26 or this plane). I mean I think it seems pretty certain. ITAR-TASS says- actually, let me post it in its entirety, because this is ITAR-TASS and Putin is currently claiming that this is Ukraine's fault.

Quote
DONETSK, July 17. /ITAR-TASS/. Militiamen of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) brought down a military transport Antonov-26 (An-26) plane of the Ukrainian Air Force on the outskirts of the town of Torez, eyewitnesses said.

A missile hit the An-26, it fell on the ground and caught blaze, they said.

On July 14, militiamen of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People’s Republic downed another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force.

(feel free to infract)

The BBC and everyone else seem to be saying that the 777 was shot down near the town of Hrabove/Grabovo... which is about 10km from Torez. Now, unless we are to assume two planes were shot down within hours of each other, 10km apart... but we've already thrown probability out of the window, haven't we?
3045  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Malaysian Airlines 777 shot down over Ukraine, 295 people on board. on: July 17, 2014, 06:20:53 pm
The news is converging. Perhaps a sign of End Times?

Perhaps. I was frozen with shock for a good minute and a half, all but maybe ten seconds of those had to do with the airline. Reminds me of American Airlines Flight 587 back in 2001. I mean, it's a complete tragedy, but you've got to feel sorry for the Malaysians. What terrible luck. This is worse than Lockerbie, indeed, I'm wondering what it isn't worse than.

But the conspiracies are going to be all over the place. Particularly considering the Israelis have invaded Gaza in the meanwhile. Today is certainly in the bottom 1% of days in human history, if nothing else.
3046  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of "GauchoGate" (= German footballers dissing the Argentinian losers) on: July 17, 2014, 07:23:17 am
They should have goose-stepped in rhythm to Preussens Gloria like proper Germans.

Seeing as this is coming from Generalfeldmarschall Mung Beans I'm assuming this is unsarcastic.
3047  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Federal Judge Rules California Death Penalty Unconstitutional on: July 17, 2014, 01:53:08 am
Why does California still have the death penalty?
3048  Questions and Answers / The Atlas / Re: Reforming the Electoral College.... Calculator Page on: July 17, 2014, 01:49:16 am
How? There's nothing wrong with it. This is liberalism at its worst- demanding change, for its own sake, when it's completely unnecessary.
3049  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: FIFA 2014 World Cup - Official Discussion Thread on: July 17, 2014, 12:31:10 am
"So gehn die Gauchos und die Deutschen gehen so !"

Excellent.

lol
3050  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Present Israel-Palestine Conflict Thread on: July 17, 2014, 12:19:23 am
Well it's not "some Mexicans", you see. It's the government of the Republic of Texas.
I don’t quite get what you are saying here. It seems your being contradictory, but maybe I just assumed you had certain political views and never heard your further commentary on the Israel-Palestine.


That should have been "some Americans", not Mexicans.

The Palestinians never secured their borders. Look where they are now.

HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

The only thing I get from this post is anti-Semitism.
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