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April 27, 2015, 05:12:49 pm
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1  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Women ministers and religion on: April 25, 2015, 10:52:27 am
Considering that there's prophetesses in both the Old and New Testament (at least according to the King James version), I'd say that women should be allowed to be ordained as ministers.

In fact, my church is struggling to address the issue of women's ordination, and what's even more interesting is that in the early days of my church, you had records of women giving blessings (which is specifically a priesthood duty/power, and therefore is only considered something men do at the present time).

It has nothing to do with the "can women be president" point you're trying to make, but whatever.
Interesting. The Swedenborgian denomination that I was raised in, but long since left, is struggling with the issue as well. The pro women's ordination movement is strong, but the all male clergy have the power and a large majority oppose the idea and therefore it is stalled. It will be interesting to see what develops.
2  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Roe v Wade on: April 25, 2015, 10:48:34 am
Should Roe v Wade be such a definitive issue in next year's presidential election?
It seems unfortunate that control of the Supreme Court has become such a critical
issue in presidential elections. People on both sides of the issue obviously have strong
feelings on the topic, but it seems to be an issue that won't go away and distracts us
from more important ones, like war and peace, campaign finance reform, and the
economy. Does anybody else feel the way I do?
3  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:43:08 am
There is no reason a woman shouldn't be president. I am glad to live in a time where that is a prevailing thinking. I don't believe someone should be elected just for the sake of being a woman, and their credentials should still be taken into account. In Hillary's case she is more than qualified, arguably more qualified than any of the other candidates.

It is my belief that I will see multiple female presidents in my lifetime. Starting in 2017.
Yes, she is qualified and she may have an easy time getting the nomination unless some candidate yet unknown comes forward an decides to run. However, she blew it in 2008. Was she not more qualified (as far as experience goes) than Obama? What was it about Obama that appealed to voters? The issues? Obama's personality? Something else?
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:28:48 am
Women are in general poor leaders because they are irrational and ruled by hormones (normal).
Men are in general poor leaders because they tend to be too aggressive, hence we have war.

Both bad examples.
Yes, I was making a comparison. If you are going to argue that men and women are that different, you could make a counter argument based on the aggressiveness of males. Not a logical argument so much, but making the point that  if saying women are unqualified for certain reasons, why not make the same point about men? Pointing out the lack of logic of one argument by suggesting an equally illogical one.

Uh, of course men and women are different. That doesn't actually mean that women are worse leaders than men of course unless you're some kind of deranged misogynist (Merkel is the best leader in Europe and was a woman last I checked!) but the idea that because Hillary Clinton might be President we should consider allowing, say, women Catholic priests is logic I don't even remotely follow.
ok, thanks for clarifying that
5  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:25:55 am
Perhaps, but they're not essential to it. Whereas in a Christian case it... kind of is.
That depends on what kind of Christian you are, doesn't it?

(literally one, not you, I wasn't speaking of 'you' in particular)

I imagine most Christians follow the Bible.
I started a separate thread in the religion section, if anyone is interested, that way this thread won't go off topic.
6  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Women ministers and religion on: April 25, 2015, 10:24:04 am
This thread is the result of another thread where I asked if a woman should be president.

The specific question is about women ministers and what the Bible has to say on the topic.
There are two issues with regard to the Bible. Is it inerrant and when should it be taken literally?
I am not a Christian, so my bias should be rather obvious.

The point is that if according to the Bible it is no ok for a woman to be a minister, is it not, logically speaking also wrong for a women to be president?
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:18:30 am
Perhaps, but they're not essential to it. Whereas in a Christian case it... kind of is.
That depends on what kind of Christian you are, doesn't it?

(literally one, not you, I wasn't speaking of 'you' in particular)

I imagine most Christians follow the Bible.
OK, well you are right that we are getting off topic now, so maybe I shouldn't debate you on that point. At least not in this thread.
8  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:11:14 am
Perhaps, but they're not essential to it. Whereas in a Chrstian case it... kind of is.
That depends on what kind of Christian you are, doesn't it?

(literally one, not you, I wasn't speaking of 'you' in particular)
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:10:12 am
Women are in general poor leaders because they are irrational and ruled by hormones (normal).
Men are in general poor leaders because they tend to be too aggressive, hence we have war.

Both bad examples.
Yes, I was making a comparison. If you are going to argue that men and women are that different, you could make a counter argument based on the aggressiveness of males. Not a logical argument so much, but making the point that  if saying women are unqualified for certain reasons, why not make the same point about men? Pointing out the lack of logic of one argument by suggesting an equally illogical one.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:06:36 am
There are these funny things called "religion" and "the Bible" that might get in the way of that...
By the way, could those things have anything to do with why we haven't had a woman president in over 200 years of US history?
11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:04:48 am
There are these funny things called "religion" and "the Bible" that might get in the way of that...
Yes indeed.
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:03:55 am
Women are in general poor leaders because they are irrational and ruled by hormones (normal).
Men are in general poor leaders because they tend to be too aggressive, hence we have war.
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 10:02:17 am
Don't forget many people are ok with the idea that women shouldn't be ministers. Patriarchy is still alive and well in the United States. If a woman is president, this will not change in a big way.

Well that's a completely different matter that has nothing to do with anything being discussed here!
Why not? If a woman can be a leader, why can't she be a minister? What is the logic in saying that a woman can't be a minister. The point of this thread is whether gender is an issue in politics. I realize that the question of a woman president and a woman being a minister is like comparing apples to oranges, but still, I would like to know why it is not a valid question to ask why a woman is disqualified from being a minister. There have been women ministers for a long time.
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:54:27 am
Don't forget many people are ok with the idea that women shouldn't be ministers. Patriarchy is still alive and well in the United States. If a woman is president, this will not change in a big way.
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:52:32 am
What exactly are you asking? Should we have women Presidents? Or that next president should be a woman?

Should we have women Presidents. Although I don't think very many people would say 'no'.
I think it is coming. As I said in the opening post, there is nothing stopping the GOP candidate from choosing a female VP. If the nominee is a male, he should choose wisely, Sarah Palin was kind of a reckless choice, given her lack of knowledge on many issues.

Well then of course.
Yes, of course, but it is not a silly question, some people (not very many perhaps) still have a problem with the idea of a woman president.
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:49:59 am
Oh, and to re-iterate. I don't think anyone should vote for Clinton, "just because she is a woman", but that doesn't mean people won't. McCain's choice of Palin was clearly because of her gender. That was a big factor. Obviously it backfired. My problem, as I have said many times, with Clinton is her vote on the Iraq War. I don't know how likely it is that Paul could be the nominee of the Republicans, but if he is, Clinton's support of the Iraq War will be an issue in many minds.
Democrats need to keep that in mind.
17  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:43:19 am
Yes. The question remains will the nation elect a female? Maybe.
exactly
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:42:45 am
It may sound like a stupid question, but even though women got the vote a long time ago and are a majority, we haven't had a woman president yet. I see the likelihood of having a woman president or woman VP as very high. I don't think the election of Clinton is a certainty at this point, although it is certainly a reasonable possibility. There are still 562 days until the election and a lot can (and will) happen before that day.
19  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:38:12 am
What exactly are you asking? Should we have women Presidents? Or that next president should be a woman?

Should we have women Presidents. Although I don't think very many people would say 'no'.
I think it is coming. As I said in the opening post, there is nothing stopping the GOP candidate from choosing a female VP. If the nominee is a male, he should choose wisely, Sarah Palin was kind of a reckless choice, given her lack of knowledge on many issues.
20  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 09:12:55 am
No one is voting for Hillary Clinton "because she's a woman".  They're voting for her (or, at least, telling pollsters that they intend to) because she's the prohibitive favorite, they're anti-Republicans, and they don't want a GOP administration appointing Supreme Court Justices, repealing Obamacare, etc.  If Hillary suddenly died, or was beaten by Biden, you can bet that the "Ready for Hillary" crowd would give less than 1% of their support to, say, Carly Fiorina.

The "woman card" playing in Hillary's case is simple; it's to preempt Biden.  Biden's a sitting VP, and would, under most circumstances, be the early favorite. 
I think some people will. A minority certainly, but it is a factor.
21  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Could someone else win? on: April 25, 2015, 06:38:19 am
The reason that I mentioned Perot was because we have a possibility of another Clinton-Bush.

In 1992 we didn't know what Clinton would be like as president. We also didn't know what a disaster George W. Bush would be. How many voters want another Clinton-Bush?

OK, the results of this poll don't surprise me in the least. Most Americans have gotten it into their heads that the only possible winners in a presidential election are Democrats and Republicans.
But what about all the non-voters? How many of them would vote if there were better choices?
Only in Nevada is the none of these candidates option available and often more people vote that way than for a third party candidate. Not enough to seem a viable option, but often the per cent for none of these candidates is greater than the margin of victory.
22  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Should a woman be president? on: April 25, 2015, 06:15:15 am
One reason that Clinton could become president is gender. It isn't logical to support her because of her gender. The reason I say that is simple, Sarah Palin. Many Clinton supporters would never have voted for Sarah Palin. If Clinton gets the nomination what is to stop her opponent from picking a woman VP?

I vote 'yes' in this poll, but 'no' for Clinton.
23  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Could someone else win? on: April 24, 2015, 09:18:09 am
I say yes, not likely, but possible.
If it is Clinton vs Paul?
Is that a possible matchup?
Is there a third party candidate,
perhaps a little better than Perot?
Maybe, maybe not?
Comments

(you can always change your vote)
24  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Who do you want to be the next President? on: April 23, 2015, 04:34:52 pm
Oh, and just so you know, I don't mean to imply that I agree with Rand's position on domestic issues. He is very pro gun.
25  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Who do you want to be the next President? on: April 23, 2015, 04:29:47 pm
Rand Paul way be the wild card next year. He has a chance to beat Clinton. If he does well, it may force Democrats to re-think Clinton. Rand's father voted 'no' and Clinton 'yes' on the Iraq War. Although we can't expect Rand to be exactly the same as Ron on all the issues, it does present an interesting problem for Clinton. Her vote for war could be an issue next year. Anti war candidates may not get the nomination of either party, but they could be a factor in changing the dialogue. Every penny spent on unnecessary weapons could be used for good rather than for evil.
How many times do we need to blow up the world? Wouldn't the money wasted on evil be better spent on good?
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