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1  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: What happens if Lieberman becomes president in September 2001? on: March 15, 2013, 08:54:25 am
The wars are paid for with massive tax increases. Balanced budgets, more bombs and a few extralegal assassinations of Muslim leaders. 



Re-elected on a bipartisan ticket with McCain against divided anti-war opposition from Dems, Libs and Reps.
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: When and why did US politicians drop 'working class' from their vocabulary? on: March 08, 2013, 04:29:32 am
With poll numbers like that who would you appeal to in your speeches?  Even claiming to want to help the poor is dumb because a huge chunk of them don't consider themselves poor.  Americans delude themselves.  Politicians take advantage of the delusions and perpetuate them.  And we continue down the spiral.

Couldn't have put it more succinctly. It's like the way Americans give themselves high-fallutin' job titles like Underwater Ceramic Utilities Sanitiser when they mean dishwasher. Many of them in humour, but yes, it is a uniquely American pretense, this calling oneself middle class when you've got a home maybe health insurance and little else. And the politicians have to use that to win.
 Meanwhile, in Britain the 'working class' label is worn with pride. My mother will scold me for referring to myself as middle class since I was raised for the first six months of my life in a flat in Wallsend and she grew up sharing a bed with her siblings and one TV in the 70s. People will shirk the middle class label if anything.
3  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Will Barack Obama be remembered as the Democrats' Nixon? on: March 07, 2013, 07:09:35 am
After that it gets trickier due to a lack of candidates by this stage. Does the 2040-2048 president become Chelsea Clinton? Tongue

Malia Obama. She was born on the 4th of July. Nuff said.
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 07, 2013, 06:19:50 am
Clinton-Warner > Bush-Walker


Oklahoma sends it to the House which picks Hilldog for Prez; the Senate, Walker for VP.
And so Oboner austerity continues for another 4 years.
5  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / When and why did US politicians drop 'working class' from their vocabulary? on: March 07, 2013, 06:12:15 am
I notice in the US pols both Democrat and Republican use the term 'middle class' constantly but no mention of 'working class' families. Why is this exacly and when did it start (at the Presidential level mainly)? I have my own ideas why but I thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
6  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 07, 2013, 05:27:45 am
The closest state on each map?
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 06, 2013, 06:08:52 am


This is the right answer.

The next most plausible scenario, I think, involves any of a number of combinations in concert with the Republican's EV vote-rigging scheme going through in PA and/or MI, where it appears to still be an active possibility.

What ticket do you think would be required to turn off the Midwest as in this map?

I agree with you though, it is the most plausible.
8  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 05, 2013, 10:19:26 am
Here's mine:



Christie-Walker > Warren-Kaine

Blue dogs in the house swing the election to Christie while a 50-50 split Senate pick Kaine to be Veep.
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: First Gen X President? First Millennial President? on: March 03, 2013, 07:47:24 pm
2020 for Gen X President Ladda T Duckworth!
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 03, 2013, 07:34:44 pm


This is pretty much the only plausible 269-269 map.  And it's sort of difficult to achieve.  Not sure how the GOP could win Iowa but not Ohio yet alone take Nevada barring some massive outreach to Hispanics.

What are the tickets though? Rubio-Thune and O'Malley-Warren?
11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / 2016: 269-269 Electoral College on: March 02, 2013, 04:46:19 pm
What do you see as being the most likely 269-269 tie in the next Presidential election, and between whom? And which party will be controlling Congress at that point?

Discuss with maps and party tickets.
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: 1984: The Election following nuclear war on: February 18, 2013, 09:12:36 am
As bad as I made it, realistically, it'd be a lot worse. For example, I show...what...like... 100 Soviet missile strikes on targets. Realistically, the Soviets had atleast double what the United States had in 1983 and I know that we had atleast 1000 ICBMs in our Minuteman silos in the Midwest.

Blatant falsehood. Kennedy got elected in 1960 saying the same thing. When he attained the office, he was shocked to see how greatly the Defence Department reached and we all know what happened when he put the CIA under State Department control. The missile gap between the USA and USSR was wide but favoured the former not the latter. What you are propagating is a myth spawned by Neoconservatives Imperialists.
13  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: People with disabilities vote on: January 27, 2013, 03:34:30 pm
Aspergers MALES do have a libertarian streak I have noticed. Within that demographic, anarchists tend to be apolitical. Independence means a lot to those guys ironically, most having had little experience of it. It is something described in books or shown on movies that inspires strong feelings in them.
 As for females, check out Darryl Hannah... she's part of the trendy new new left of PETA.
 I think it unlikely that any Aspergian would be far-left as private property and individuality mean a great deal to them. I couldn't imagine any of them living on a commune.

*has Aspergers* *is far-left* Private Property is not something that any leftie opposes, mind, and for that matter, neither is individuality, so...

Well then the American 'left' is far to the right of the European one. Maybe it is so deeply entrenched. I mean your Green Party/Occupiers sound canny libertarian to me. Then again, in  Britain we never had a Red Scare so people still openly declare themselves to eb socialists. The American left was forced to morph into something else and adopt words like 'progressive' to define their platforms. Communes went out of fashion in America in the 70s - I don't think any American middle class leftie would have the balls to give up their property.
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: People with disabilities vote on: January 26, 2013, 09:55:27 am
Aspergers MALES do have a libertarian streak I have noticed. Within that demographic, anarchists tend to be apolitical. Independence means a lot to those guys ironically, most having had little experience of it. It is something described in books or shown on movies that inspires strong feelings in them.
 As for females, check out Darryl Hannah... she's part of the trendy new new left of PETA.
 I think it unlikely that any Aspergian would be far-left as private property and individuality mean a great deal to them. I couldn't imagine any of them living on a commune.
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Presidential Election Trends / Re: Will Barack Obama be remembered as the Democrats' Nixon? on: January 26, 2013, 09:22:28 am
Chris Christie will be the Republican Jimmy Carter.
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 11, 2013, 05:24:16 am
The recuperated President Wallace proposes a new series of socioeconomic programs called the Better Society, aimed at improving the life of everyday Americans through a massive postwar public works program building highways and high-speed rail networks to connect the country, Amendments to the Constitution guaranteeing healthcare as a right for all Americans, transitioning War Bonds into Peace Bonds and a new Department of Science in the federal government.
 This will infuriate many conservative Democrats who see the popular President as a threat to the Party. The former Republican will not compromise with them, preferring to inspire a new further-to-the-left coalition of New Dealer types and put his ideals on hold for the new Congress.
17  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 08, 2013, 04:48:17 pm
PRESIDENT WALLACE SHOT IN DETROIT

Reads the headline in the New York Journal-American later that day, flagrantly claiming a fatal sniper's bullet shot the President in the heart in an astoundingly detailed report on the aftermath of the event. Later news flashes will contradict this story and the New York Journal-American's circulation will drop into the thousands amid rumours of a right-wing plot to decapitate the government and insert Secretary of State Stettinius. Much of these rumours gain traction with a rabid unemployed veterans, labour, women's and civil rights movement across the nation.
 Wallace's would-be assassins are stopped by three brave female factory workers. The two snipers had occupied a munitions plant just across the street from where Wallace had begun delivering his 'Century of the Common Man' Speech. In the course of an expensive investigation into the two hitmen, links are revealed tying the men to some of the biggest faces in the underworld and moneyed establishment. Wallace will add them and Southern racists to his sh**tlist in what will come to be known to John Birchers, the KKK and various other right-wing factions as Wallace's Great Purge or the Fascist Witch Hunts...
18  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 07, 2013, 06:04:04 pm
I loled when I read about Robert Taft's coup plot. You may not like his politics, but I doubt he would support a coup in order to achieve his agenda.

Hm. He did co-sponsor slum clearance but if you think of the length Texaco went to get rubber tires to Francoist Spain or the amount of democratically elected leaders and innocent people Reagan, Carter and Johnson had killed or removed from power for nationalising multi-billion dollar US companies often with fatal losses, it's not too far from the truth... I can't see Taft holding much sway or having much purpose in a social democracy.
19  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 07, 2013, 05:56:55 pm
The United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union and the Republic of China are the inaugural signatories of the United Nations Charter, dictating an end to the war and a strong global moderator as envisioned by FDR.
 Wallace refuses to lift wage and price controls or liquidate war bonds, preferring to ease the US from a wartime economy to a peacetime economy easily. The siege of Japan provided President Wallace with a few months to file executive orders and sign into law the Housing Rights Act of 1945 to desegregate the federal govenement and armed services and build new houses in what would be known as 'suburban areas' as well as 'slum clearance' in the inner cities to raise existing projects and replace them with new high-rise tenements.
 Most returning soldiers will be delegated jobs in the postwar economy and temporary housing for their families but the expected inflation and unemployment still occurs...
 
In 1946 Detroit, President Wallace will speak to a gathering of United Auto Workers before things get too heated and he is forced to leave in his motorcade when shots echo out across Dodge Main Street...
20  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 07, 2013, 04:43:43 pm
I'll call BS on your 10,000 casualty figure. Let's look at the estimates here:

-Gen. Lauris Norstad: 500,000 US fatalities
-Joint Chiefs of Staff: for a 90-day campaign, 456,000 casualties and 109,000 dead/missing
-Admiral Nimitz: 49,000 in the first 30 days, with 5,000 of them at sea.
-Gem MacArthur: 23,000 in the first 30 days, 125,000 by 120 days.
-William Shockley on behalf of Secretary of War Henry Stimson: 1.7-4 million American casualties, with 400,000-800,000 fatalities and 5-10 million Japanese fatalities.
-LA Times war correspondent Kyle Palmer: half a million to a million
-Herbert Hoover: half a million to a million

There's a reason we've never had to manufacture any more Purple Hearts. Soviets or not.

Had the US aligned itself with the USSR sooner and declared war on Japan, there is little doubt that the beleaguered Empire would have surrendered.

Doubtful. They were entirely willing to fight on to the bitter end; that's why it took an atomic bomb to get them to stop.

 President Truman is known to have increased the figure repeatedly after giving an interview in August 1945 where he claimed that the bomb would have saved "thousands of lives", then in December of that same year "a quarter of a million of the flower of our young manhood was worth a couple of Japanese cities", and in November of 1949 "500, 000 [American] casualties", in January 1953 "as much as a million [Japanese and American] casualties" and finally, in April 1959 "the bomb stopped the war and saved millions of lives".
 You can fact-check this or look it up if you don't believe me. The proof is staring you straight in the face. You can believe what you want to believe or you can be objective.
 All you have there are some estimated figures from known anti-communists who wanted to end the war unilaterally so they could declare it won on their terms and sustain the military-industrial complex for as long as they saw necessary - so your call is BS.
21  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 07, 2013, 02:23:28 pm
President Wallace is a very interesting (and terrifying) scenario, but I must ask, only 10.000 casualties? An invasion of Japan would be incredibly complex and bloody, and it would take a lot of time to end resistance (Even considering a 1945 start the invasion would last well into 1946).

Not as terrifying as the last sixty-seven years (if you ask anyone who lived them). I think 10, 000 is actually a ridiculous overestimation on my part, but it makes for a better tl story. Had the US aligned itself with the USSR sooner and declared war on Japan, there is little doubt that the beleaguered Empire would have surrendered. The only reason the USSR had not declared war on its old rival to the East was because it was already fighting the Nazi menace on it's Western front and would not have survived a combined Axis Invasion.
22  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: "Are you now or have you ever been a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 07, 2013, 07:25:28 am
VICTORY IN EUROPE & JAPAN!

Under the weight of Allied pressure, the Nazi war machine is crushed upon the capturing of the city of Berlin. President Wallace and Soviet leader Josef Stalin congratulate one another, Wallace "hoping this could be the beginning of a wonderful alliance."
 The USSR will call for a joint US-Soviet invasion of the Empire of Japan, which Wallace refutes, hoping to blockade the islands. But Stalin will go ahead, deploying Russian troops to Korean ports and the US will jump in at the last minute. Wallace's insistence on co-operation with the Soviets will anger many American Imperialists in the upper echelons of the burgeoning military-industrial complex, hoping to end the war unilaterally with an Atom bomb, whose development Wallace orders to be scrapped.
 The invasion will end up costing collectively little more than ten thousand Soviet and American lives. VJ day will be celebrated by millions in the streets of Moscow, New York, Rome, Shanghai and Buenos Aires. The anti-imperialist Wallace will fight with Stalin and himself over the trial of the Emperor for war crimes, whom the Japanese consider to be divine. Russia will defy the US and dethrone the Emperor, but not execute or exile him to Siberia, as a compromise.
 Meanwhile, General Lesley Groves, Senator Robert Taft of Ohio and other right-wingers will plot an attempt to reinstall a business-friendly administration.
23  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / "Are you now or have you ever been, a Fascist?" The Century of the Common Man on: January 06, 2013, 02:53:35 pm
07/11/1944
FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT & HENRY A WALLACE RE-ELECTED


 

FDR easily wins re-election to an historic fourth term, though with reduced electoral college margins and despite the split with the Unpledged Dixiecratic Wing of the party due to the renomination of pro-labour Vice President Henry Wallace. Senator Harold S Truman lost a close convention floor-fight over the nomination but conceded graciously and endorsed the eventual nominees. 
 But tragedy would strike almost a year later when the President died of a massive stroke in the Oval Office, retiring upon remarking to an aide of 'a terrible headache'. The nation mourned it's patrician statesman and wartime leader from coast to coast as well as abroad, where the city of Berlin was about to topple and Japanese defeat was within sight.
 The 33rd Vice President of the United States was about to become the 33rd President...

24  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Past Election What-ifs (US) / Re: 1876: Samuel J. Tilden Becomes President on: January 06, 2013, 01:25:20 pm
-Samuel did not agree with slavery -despised it and argued against the spread of it into the new territories. In the end it was the Southern Dems that threw Tilden under the bus because they felt they could get a better deal with Hayes.

It was the US Army in the SOuth that gave hayes whatever Southern states he won (FL, LA, & SC). The direct outcome of the election had little effect as Hayes had to give into Senate Democrats demands to end Reconstruction in order to be elected, which was Tilden's election promise. Also, a split Congress would have meant whoever was elected wouldn't have been able to instigate much change (so no tariff lowering either).
25  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: List of Presidents: 1960-2052 on: January 06, 2013, 01:14:12 pm
Chris Christie (2017-2021)
Tammy Duckworth (2021-2029)
Hector Balderas (2029-2033)
Jesse L 'Tre' Jackson III (2033-2041)
Malia Obama (2041-2045)
Matt Shimura (2045-2049)
Bradley Manning (2049-2053)
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