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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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1  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: 2015 county predictions on: March 24, 2016, 11:47:53 am
Largest percentage gain in NY was... the Bronx!  Warms my heart.

NY State would have had a population loss were it not for the City.
2  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gallup: For First Time, Majority in U.S. Oppose Nuclear Energy. on: March 21, 2016, 06:24:48 pm
I guess the pro-nuke propaganda isn't having much of an effect anymore.

The future is in green energy - not nuclear.

Compared to fossil fuels, nuclear energy is green.  Traditional fission reactors aren't actually the world's best long-term solution (the nuke baseleoad paradigm doesn't necessarily play the best with flexible next-fen grids, and there's only so much uranium in the earth's crust), but they have an important and positive role to play in the short and medium term.
3  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Gallup: For First Time, Majority in U.S. Oppose Nuclear Energy. on: March 21, 2016, 07:03:07 am
What the hell happened? That's such a sharp change.

Low gas prices, most likely.  Many people are likely preconditioned to find nuclear power scary, but when fossil fuels are more expensive, their desire for more energy production outweighs their natural squeamishness.  Petroleum and natural gas is dirt cheap right now, so they don't see a need to support nukes.
4  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update for Everyone IV - Hungover on: March 15, 2016, 06:51:18 am
We're playing a Serenade for Strings by a certain protégé of Dvorak, but we aren't doing so hot. I guess you could say it... SUKS!

If you got that pun, you might be a band nerd.

XD

We're playing part of Dvorak's New World Symphony right now; it says Ninth on the sheet music but I'm confused because it's also Fifth or something like that.

Dvorak's first four symphonies were all written in his youth and he never published them as an adult.  So, when it was premiered, the New World Symphony was given number #5, and it was known as that for awhile.  That is, until they discovered his juvenilia and re-numbered everything.  So now it's #9.
5  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of AAD on: March 15, 2016, 05:46:54 am
A mixture. It's definitely got a better interface, the more exclusive member pool means there are less dumbarses and a lot of the content is better. That said the original purpose of AAD - a free speech, no rules board to interact with banned posters was hilariously stupid - we quickly found out that there was a reason people like Ziggy, Jamfist and the evil ballet dancer were banned (the only 'banned posters' worth talking to are politicus, Hamilton, Sawx and maybe tweed).

Einzige has left now, probably for good this time and jmfcst is officially gone for good.
You forgot Straha by the way.

No, that's a good list of quality banned posters as is.  I don't think Straha was "forgot."

Anyway, AAD is not without its problems but let's just say there are good reasons that even I (who never had much time for Trump or Update or coddling Nazis under the rationale of "free speech") have mostly migrated over there. 
6  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Would most Trump supporters be Golden Dawn voters in Greece? on: March 12, 2016, 12:32:02 pm
Most would merely be UKIP or AfD or Forza Italia, which is still plenty bad but let's not be overbroad.

That said, some small segment would be into the Golden Shower, and as long as that group isn't being actively repudiated, as is really not happening, the effect is incredibly dangerous.
7  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Does this Ted Cruz quote make you like Ted Cruz more or less? on: March 08, 2016, 12:58:00 am
No influence on my honest opinion of him.

More in my ironic support for him. The idea that such a despicable villain would be a MLP fan is utterly hilarious. Kinda reminds me of the Master watching Teletubbies in The Sound of Drums. Cheesy

I take it you've lived your life up until today blissfully unaware of the existence of Nazi bronies.  Which are apparently an entire, and entirely real, sub-subculture unto their own.
8  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Do you know any poor white people? on: March 07, 2016, 02:08:44 pm
The difference between being poor and white and poor and black is, if you are poor and white, and you DO somehow leave the ghetto, you LEAVE the ghetto.  You can wipe the dust from your feet and be done with it.  When you're black in this country, because we live in a racist society, you never, ever, truly leave the ghetto.  The assumptions about you that are embedded in our culture linger just beneath the surface, when they aren't simply laid bare.

To be a person of color in this country means no matter how wealthy or successful you are, you are never free from the bull****.

Seriously, what does this melodramatic BS even mean? Do you mean, even if a Black person is rich, they're "still in the ghetto" because if they're walking down a street at night, someone crosses the street to avoid them? No, if you're rich, you're rich. Even if a salesperson asks you if they can help you find anything (which they also ask White people) you are still rich.

Um

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_controversy
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Do you know any poor white people? on: March 07, 2016, 10:40:26 am
For f**ks sake.  We should be better than this.

To be clear: I'm not sure that I particularly want to vote the same way as West Virginia.  My deeply held beliefs include the truth that systemic racism is a Real Problem and that even poor people can have bad views, that we have a moral obligation, for the sake of future generations, to prosecute the War on Coal to its fullest extent and leave that sh*t in the ground, that we should invest in our cities, promote cultural cosmopolitanism, etc etc etc.  Being poor doesn't excuse being racist, it doesn't excuse spitting on facts.  These are things I don't have any particular interest in compromising on, and as such I recognize that a Democratic Party I can comfortably be a part of is one that is going to lose in a lot of poor white areas.  Some principles need defending, you can't please everyone all of the time.

But, Jesus f**k, it's still not okay to sneer on people who are struggling like that.  It's not okay to say, "you deserve the sh*t you're in."  You still gotta be the bigger man and treat people with compassion, and do things to help those in distress, despite whatever objectively harmful views they hold.  (And, even if West Virginia is a lost cause for the foreseeable future, taking the high road does make a difference.  Like, in, say, Ohio.)  If you can't do that, then kindly STFU.
10  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: Most liberal state GOP/most conservative state Dems on: March 05, 2016, 09:54:05 am
Rhode Island for both.  

(Not actually true, but possibly true for most liberal GOP, which still has its share of Chaffee types, and the Dems are quite conservative for a blue state.  The gap between the two parties is almost certainly smallest there.)
11  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Inside the Republican Party’s Desperate Mission to Stop Donald Trump on: February 27, 2016, 12:17:17 pm
The party created this mess. By pandering to Tea Partiers and xenophobes more and more in recent years, they've welcomed the crazies into the party. Well, now the crazies dominate the base. What did you expect? I predicted this (albeit not with Trump as the candidate... nobody really predicted that) years ago when GOP officials kept increasingly giving in to and supporting Tea Partiers' unreasonable demands.

Yeah, but much of the Trump base is not tea partiers at all, who tend to be focused on fiscal issues and the like. It's more about the estranged working and lower middle class concerned about their standard of living and buying into Trump's protectionism, both as to trade, and as to immigration, with a loathing of Muslims mixed in.

That's cute that you think the Tea Party was ever motivated by "fiscal issues."
12  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: About the "Republican" White Working Class... on: February 27, 2016, 01:25:05 am
That's interesting, but why are you using such a narrow definition of working class?

(Though I agree the whites without college degrees as a proxy for white working class has its limitations).

When I think of the populist right constituency, I think it's largely made up of white men without degrees but they're usually not poor and they're often petty bourgeois rather than working class.

It's simultaneously too narrow and too broad.  A lot of the "poorest" white people, measured purely by income, are going to be college students (or similarly un/underemployed people) from comfortable backgrounds*. And the working class (measured by culture and/or financial stability) extends a fair amount beyond just the bottom third.  You could even argue that "working class" should cut off the bottom 20% or so, with those in full-on poverty being an entirely different class.

Obviously labels like "working class" is something we can argue endlessly about, and obviously income (like most variables used to measure concepts we're interested in in social sciences) is only an approximate measure.

Still, if you're interested in how the poorest White Americans vote, that's the best you've got (which, let's face it, is what a lot of people have in mind when they talk about this). And I will argue strongly against stretching the term "working class" too far up the income ladder.

Many of the "poorest white Americans" are in fact privileged college students.  You think people have the campus of Georgetown in mind when they talk about the white working class?

"Many" of them, really? How many out of the maybe around 40-50 million people that would fall in this category would be College students? I doubt it's enough to skew the results too strongly.

Also, I'm not entirely sure so don't take my word for it, but I think the ANES measures family income, which should filter out college kids with wealthy parents.

According to this source there were over 12 million under-25 (i.e. traditional age) college students in 2013.  Presumably a majority of them were white, in excess of the percentage of white people overall... so almost certainly north of 10 percent of that 40-50 mil sample.  That's enough to introduce quite a bit of skew!

And even if it is "family" income I'm not sure how you measure that besides counting households, and students living away from home in a dorm don't get to count as part of the household anymore.  (Of course not all college students do that, so that would lower the percentage some.)

Perhaps there could be some sort of income cap in addition to the degree/salaried requirements, but "lowest third" is obviously too stringent (come on, a plumber who makes in the 45th percentile obviously belongs in this category), and the vast majority of higher-earning individuals are filtered out by the salary requirement anyway.
13  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: About the "Republican" White Working Class... on: February 27, 2016, 01:08:47 am
That's interesting, but why are you using such a narrow definition of working class?

(Though I agree the whites without college degrees as a proxy for white working class has its limitations).

When I think of the populist right constituency, I think it's largely made up of white men without degrees but they're usually not poor and they're often petty bourgeois rather than working class.

It's simultaneously too narrow and too broad.  A lot of the "poorest" white people, measured purely by income, are going to be college students (or similarly un/underemployed people) from comfortable backgrounds*. And the working class (measured by culture and/or financial stability) extends a fair amount beyond just the bottom third.  You could even argue that "working class" should cut off the bottom 20% or so, with those in full-on poverty being an entirely different class.

Obviously labels like "working class" is something we can argue endlessly about, and obviously income (like most variables used to measure concepts we're interested in in social sciences) is only an approximate measure.

Still, if you're interested in how the poorest White Americans vote, that's the best you've got (which, let's face it, is what a lot of people have in mind when they talk about this). And I will argue strongly against stretching the term "working class" too far up the income ladder.

Many of the "poorest white Americans" are in fact privileged college students.  You think people have the campus of Georgetown in mind when they talk about the white working class?  The standard definition that Clarko gave is obviously better.
14  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: About the "Republican" White Working Class... on: February 27, 2016, 12:55:36 am
That's interesting, but why are you using such a narrow definition of working class?

(Though I agree the whites without college degrees as a proxy for white working class has its limitations).

When I think of the populist right constituency, I think it's largely made up of white men without degrees but they're usually not poor and they're often petty bourgeois rather than working class.

It's simultaneously too narrow and too broad.  A lot of the "poorest" white people, measured purely by income, are going to be college students (or similarly un/underemployed people) from comfortable backgrounds*. And the working class (measured by culture and/or financial stability) extends a fair amount beyond just the bottom third.  You could even argue that "working class" should cut off the bottom 20% or so, with those in full-on poverty being an entirely different class.

*To wit, take note of the CONCENTRATED POVERTY that DC exhibits on the campus of Georgetown University. (h/t http://www.radicalcartography.net)

15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: U.S. residents: Will you move outside of the U.S. if TRUMP is elected? on: February 26, 2016, 11:11:07 pm
No, it is one's patriotic duty to make Trump's tenure in office as unpleasant as possible. I dare him to come to Hudson!

Yeah, this train's not going to be making any stops at completely rundown towns living in the shadow of large economic engines, but good try.

Oh, honey, you are so out of date. I might add that the number of building permits pulled quadrupled in the last year. One rundown house or duplex after another is being bought and fixed up, and now some new homes are being built as well, sometimes tearing down the old structures. We had 8 going variance applications for building projects come before the zoning board the day before yesterday, one for refurbishing near the train station an old industrial structure into a luxury 55 room hotel (which I am opposing due to parking issues, and hope to kill off in its crib, but I digress). Hudson is on the move! I like to think I helped accelerate it, but that would be a big stretch (other than on my block, where others got confidence after seeing what I did). But I'm part of it. Smiley

You are doing the devil's work.  I thought you believed in revitalizing and redeveloping your town?  I thought you cared about free enterprise?  To oppose this sort of positive adaptive reuse–especially in a location near the train– due to "parking issues" is unconscionable, and reveals you not as a good-hearted civic booster who cares about Hudson's future, but merely as the all-too-common sort of peevish, crank Boomer busybody that make it their business to nose into other peoples' business, and especially to keep our nation's urban fabric chained to the past.  Shame on you.
16  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What does your username or display name mean? on: February 26, 2016, 01:00:58 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCFTHhcvRT0
17  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: best Shakespearean tragedy? on: February 25, 2016, 11:57:50 pm
I guess this is a bit of a hipster choice, but King Lear is my favorite.  The Fool is just such a fascinating character, and there's something strikingly, I want to say, Expressionist about the whole plot and feel of the play that draws me in.

Hamlet is a close and obvious second.
18  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of HL Mencken? on: February 25, 2016, 02:29:21 pm
How in the ever-loving f**k is he getting a net FF rating here?
19  General Politics / Political Geography & Demographics / Re: Why can't large urban areas be conservative? on: February 25, 2016, 03:22:26 am
The emphasis on minorities in this thread ignores that urban whites are also a solid D group. It's more of a urban culture issue than people are making it out to be.
Urban culture is unsustainable if hell breaks loose, just saying.

Dude, if all hell breaks lose the exurbs are the first to go.  Massive fossil fuel subsidies, highway and utility spending, etc., ain't "self-reliant."

If you really wanted a true free market with no government largesse, you'd have creature comforts in the cities where there'd be enough people to provide it efficiently, and the burbs would become the slums.

And Arizona would be almost completely depopulated, because lol where are you getting your water from?
20  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Idiocracy (2006) on: February 25, 2016, 02:23:49 am
Chill out guys.  Like you've never looked at the creeping stupidification of modern society and wept.  Were you asleep during the Bush administration?

Oh, I think we're all well aware of what happened during the Bush administration, such as the ugliness that frustration with the admittedly bad situation brought out in some leftists.

Just curious, what exactly does this refer to? What particular sort of "ugliness" was brought out in these leftists (Who?)?

Intense and more or less open class-based contempt for the poor rural people who were perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be Bush's 'base'. I don't know where you're from (the flag below your username suggests Norway?), but I was living in a gentrified/hipster-infested South Jersey river town and going to a private school in the upscale Philadelphia suburbs for much of the Bush era so I saw a lot of this.

I find it hard to imagine that any of the South Jersey river towns are actually gentrified and "hipster-infested".  That must be a very recent phenomenon, or else you're working from a radically different baseline from mine.

My suspicion is that it's the latter, but before I come to that conclusion I'd just ask what you mean by 'very recent'.

My experiences of that area mostly date from the latter part of the 2000s.  So, post-2010 more or less.

Then yeah, either we're working from different baselines or you're not familiar with Bordentown, where I lived year-round from 2004 to 2008 and then when not away at college until 2013.

I'm not familiar with Bordentown specifically, more the towns closer to Camden.  A quick look at Street View seems to indicate that, yeah, there's a difference.
21  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Idiocracy (2006) on: February 25, 2016, 02:03:49 am
Chill out guys.  Like you've never looked at the creeping stupidification of modern society and wept.  Were you asleep during the Bush administration?

Oh, I think we're all well aware of what happened during the Bush administration, such as the ugliness that frustration with the admittedly bad situation brought out in some leftists.

Just curious, what exactly does this refer to? What particular sort of "ugliness" was brought out in these leftists (Who?)?

Intense and more or less open class-based contempt for the poor rural people who were perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be Bush's 'base'. I don't know where you're from (the flag below your username suggests Norway?), but I was living in a gentrified/hipster-infested South Jersey river town and going to a private school in the upscale Philadelphia suburbs for much of the Bush era so I saw a lot of this.

I find it hard to imagine that any of the South Jersey river towns are actually gentrified and "hipster-infested".  That must be a very recent phenomenon, or else you're working from a radically different baseline from mine.

My suspicion is that it's the latter, but before I come to that conclusion I'd just ask what you mean by 'very recent'.

My experiences of that area mostly date from the latter part of the 2000s.  So, post-2010 more or less.

(Also, this map seems to confirm my suspicions that the river towns remain significantly less wealthy than the surrounding suburbia.  I guess I'd be curious as to what you even mean by "gentrification" and "hipsters" TBH, given their general use as an ill-defined term of abuse.)
22  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Idiocracy (2006) on: February 24, 2016, 11:22:20 pm
Chill out guys.  Like you've never looked at the creeping stupidification of modern society and wept.  Were you asleep during the Bush administration?

Oh, I think we're all well aware of what happened during the Bush administration, such as the ugliness that frustration with the admittedly bad situation brought out in some leftists.

Just curious, what exactly does this refer to? What particular sort of "ugliness" was brought out in these leftists (Who?)?

Intense and more or less open class-based contempt for the poor rural people who were perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be Bush's 'base'. I don't know where you're from (the flag below your username suggests Norway?), but I was living in a gentrified/hipster-infested South Jersey river town and going to a private school in the upscale Philadelphia suburbs for much of the Bush era so I saw a lot of this.

I find it hard to imagine that any of the South Jersey river towns are actually gentrified and "hipster-infested".  That must be a very recent phenomenon, or else you're working from a radically different baseline from mine.
23  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: who is your favourite zanu-pf member on atlas? on: February 21, 2016, 12:23:33 pm
Snowstalker, of course.
24  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of unironic TRUMP supporters? on: February 19, 2016, 03:08:55 am
One thing that's clear to Trump is that he speaks to something that goes beyond the traditional Republican mantra. Something extremely deep and ugly, which, as a European, I possibly have more experience with than most Americans here. People like Cruz have been saying what they say for over three decades now: they preach to their own choir and the rest of America shrugs it off and increasingly laughs at it. Trump's public discourse has the potential to unleash a new wave of xenophobia, populism and just plain, raw hatred that, until recently, even the most hardline conservatives didn't dare to delve into.

I 100% agree with you that xenophobic "populism" is deep and ugly and needs to be fought at every turn.  But I think your analysis of what "hardline conservatives" do or don't delve into is altogether too rosy.  They're generally more careful to dog-whistle and message things more carefully, but that sort of nativist appeal never actually went away, and has always been a major source of votes.  I mean, I remember when California's Prop 187 made the news back in the 1990s; more recently, take a look at Joe Arpaio and Lou Barletta.  What Trump is doing is more a difference in style and intensity, then a difference in kind.
25  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of unironic TRUMP supporters? on: February 18, 2016, 05:40:52 pm
Turmp has better chances in the general election than Cruz and Carson at least, and possibly Bush too (not to mention a good chunk of the dropouts). There's no defensible reason to support him if you're a progressive.

Carson is a nonentity at this point, and Bush is rapidly approaching that stage, with the only thing left for him is how long can he play spoiler to Rubio, and if he even is able to do that if he wants to.

So, Cruz.  Frankly you're out to lunch on Cruz, who:

* I suspect in the long run he'd be a better campaigner than Trump and thus more likely to win the general.  There's a lot of uncertainty here, but the guy is good at campaigning.
* Holds views that are to the right of Trump on almost every issue, and is significantly more intransigent/ideological about them.  Don't let Trump's boorish affect and Cruz's Ivy League pedigree fool you, dude is as much of a sh*tstain even on Trump's signature nativist blatherings
* Is just a generally nasty and disgusting person, by all accounts just as bad as Trump.

I genuinely think that a Trump nomination would be better, on both electability and substantive grounds, than a Cruz nomination.  And it would certainly be better for electability than a Rubio nomination– Rubio might be even money to win this thing, and he's a hardcore neocon who came into office in the Tea Party wave.

Another thing that occurs to me, and I don't think it excuses ironic Trump support but is worth keeping in mind as an explanatory variable, is that the whole Trump phenomenon has forced a lot of (frankly shoddy) political science into the trash. So the cynics that populate this board are welcoming that, and I kind of wonder if you're letting it screw with your perception and better judgment.  Because: don't get me wrong, Trump is a dangerous individual with crazy ideas.  But to set him apart from the Republicans as uniquely bad is, well, less reality-based than you might wish.
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