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76  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Kentuckians are welfare queens and they're in denial about it on: December 14, 2013, 08:20:42 pm
It's probably the same in states like Mississippi, Arkansas, West Virginia and some others.
77  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Office of the Game Moderator on: December 14, 2013, 07:41:10 pm
Quote
Northeast Environment Act:
1. Hereby the Assembly and the Governor are creating a Regional Park Service.
2. The Northeast Regional Park Service will preserve environmentally and culturally significant lands in the Northeast Region.
3. The Northeast Park Service will create new parks in the region designated as such by the Northeast government.
4. The Northeast Regional Park Service will maintain park safety, management and administration.
5. The Northeast government will hire 250 employees to manage the Northeast Regional Park Service.

Dear Game Moderator, could I get a estimation of the costs of the Northeast Environment Act.
78  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Northeast Environment Act on: December 14, 2013, 07:37:58 pm
Yes, I am aware that, in the grand scheme of things, the costs of this bill will relatively small. However, I would still like concrete numbers, either from GM estimates or a specific amount set in the  bill, before I vote in favor of it.

Also, the reason I didn't just get estimates from the GM myself is because I typicality consider it the responsibility of the bill's sponsor to find out the costs of his bill, again either by getting estimates from the GM or by setting aside a specific amount of money in the bill itself.

I understand that, so I will ask the GM for a estimation.

Personally, I think it won't cost more than about 150 to 200 million dollars. And that is at the top of my estimation. But the GM might come up with different numbers.
79  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Northeast Environment Act on: December 14, 2013, 07:17:16 pm
I doubt it will cost billions.

For now, it only creates 250 new jobs and a new building to house these employees. So we are talking millions. Costs will rise once we are creating the Regional Parks and start hiring new people to man those Parks. But the costs can be reduced by asking people to pay for entrance to the Parks.
80  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Northeast Environment Act on: December 14, 2013, 06:57:52 pm
If Goldwater wants that he can ask for one. I just gave my opinion about it.
81  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Northeast Environment Act on: December 14, 2013, 06:50:38 pm
How much will this cost?

At the start this bill will not cost that much. Of course, once park are being established the costs will rise. But we could amend the bill and require all people to pay for park entrance.
82  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Ronald Reagan vs Nelson Mandela on: December 14, 2013, 06:14:08 pm
Mandela, duh
83  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of James Monroe on: December 14, 2013, 06:13:15 pm
Owned slaves=automatic HP.

Does that include the free blacks that also owned slaves?

I love how you basically assume he's okay with slavery as long as black people own other people.

I love how he assumes owning slaves makes someone an HP by default.

You are owning other human beings.

Nobody is defending the act of slavery here. It's just a bit ridiculous to slave owning as a factor in an opinion poll about someone born in the 18th century.

Agreed. Most of the 18th century politicians in the western world would be horrible racist scumbags by todays standards. But applying modern standards is not fair to those people.
It's not like there were any people in the time period who opposed slavery, or entire states where it was abolished...
The very next president we'll vote on was an abolitionist as well…

True. But being opposed to slavery did not say you were pro civil-rights. Many people didn't like slavery as a institution, but they didn't like blacks either.

In many ways the Abraham Lincoln of 1860 would be considered a horrible racist in our time, while in 1860 he was a progressive on the issue of slavery.

Not exactly. He ran as a much more subdued candidate on the issue in contrast to Fremont in 1856 and how Seward and Chase likely would have been had they been nominated.

Lincoln did not really care about slavery at the start of the Civil War. He evolved at the issue during his Presidency, but he did not start as the man who would emancipate the slaves.
84  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of James Monroe on: December 14, 2013, 06:11:08 pm
Owned slaves=automatic HP.o

Does that include the free blacks that also owned slaves?

I love how you basically assume he's okay with slavery as long as black people own other people.

I love how he assumes owning slaves makes someone an HP by default.

You are owning other human beings.

Nobody is defending the act of slavery here. It's just a bit ridiculous to slave owning as a factor in an opinion poll about someone born in the 18th century.

Agreed. Most of the 18th century politicians in the western world would be horrible racist scumbags by todays standards. But applying modern standards is not fair to those people.
It's not like there were any people in the time period who opposed slavery, or entire states where it was abolished...
The very next president we'll vote on was an abolitionist as well…

True. But being opposed to slavery did not say you were pro civil-rights. Many people didn't like slavery as a institution, but they didn't like blacks either.

In many ways the Abraham Lincoln of 1860 would be considered a horrible racist in our time, while in 1860 he was a progressive on the issue of slavery.
That's not the issue though. Slavery was a controversial issue at the time of Monroe's presidency, so calling him an HP for owning slaves is not setting him to the modern standard.

It wasn't that controversial around 1820. Slavery was still pretty normal. And the American Civil War started 30 years after he died. He was hardly the exception. And I don't believe that being a slave-owner in the early 19th century makes you a immediate horrible person.
Slavery was already illegal in your state during Monroe's presidency. It was simply a wedge issue that America was divided on for a long period of time. It's not just that Monroe was a slave owner, but since he owned slaves, he opposed prohibition of it, which makes someone an HP at a time when states were banning slavery.

You do understand that I am not really from Vermont. I am from the Netherlands and I am only using Vermont because of the Atlasia game.

And let there be no misunderstanding, I hate slavery and think it's morally wrong on every level. But believing that Monroe is a horrible person just because he owned slaves is not right in my opinion. Many early presidents owned slaves at one point during their lives. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, it was normal. Monroe doesn't stand out in that regard.
85  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of James Monroe on: December 14, 2013, 02:52:20 pm
Owned slaves=automatic HP.o

Does that include the free blacks that also owned slaves?

I love how you basically assume he's okay with slavery as long as black people own other people.

I love how he assumes owning slaves makes someone an HP by default.

You are owning other human beings.

Nobody is defending the act of slavery here. It's just a bit ridiculous to slave owning as a factor in an opinion poll about someone born in the 18th century.

Agreed. Most of the 18th century politicians in the western world would be horrible racist scumbags by todays standards. But applying modern standards is not fair to those people.
It's not like there were any people in the time period who opposed slavery, or entire states where it was abolished...
The very next president we'll vote on was an abolitionist as well…

True. But being opposed to slavery did not say you were pro civil-rights. Many people didn't like slavery as a institution, but they didn't like blacks either.

In many ways the Abraham Lincoln of 1860 would be considered a horrible racist in our time, while in 1860 he was a progressive on the issue of slavery.
That's not the issue though. Slavery was a controversial issue at the time of Monroe's presidency, so calling him an HP for owning slaves is not setting him to the modern standard.

It wasn't that controversial around 1820. Slavery was still pretty normal. And the American Civil War started 30 years after he died. He was hardly the exception. And I don't believe that being a slave-owner in the early 19th century makes you a immediate horrible person.
86  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of James Monroe on: December 14, 2013, 08:01:59 am
Owned slaves=automatic HP.

Does that include the free blacks that also owned slaves?

I love how you basically assume he's okay with slavery as long as black people own other people.

I love how he assumes owning slaves makes someone an HP by default.

You are owning other human beings.

Nobody is defending the act of slavery here. It's just a bit ridiculous to slave owning as a factor in an opinion poll about someone born in the 18th century.

Agreed. Most of the 18th century politicians in the western world would be horrible racist scumbags by todays standards. But applying modern standards is not fair to those people.
It's not like there were any people in the time period who opposed slavery, or entire states where it was abolished...
The very next president we'll vote on was an abolitionist as well…

True. But being opposed to slavery did not say you were pro civil-rights. Many people didn't like slavery as a institution, but they didn't like blacks either.

In many ways the Abraham Lincoln of 1860 would be considered a horrible racist in our time, while in 1860 he was a progressive on the issue of slavery.
87  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: December 2013 At-large Senate Election on: December 13, 2013, 01:49:58 pm

AT-LARGE SENATE (5 elected)


[ 3 ] Flo (Jacob Tiver) of Alaska
Progressive Union



[ 7 ] Goldwater of Delaware
Federalist Party



[ 2 ] Mr. X of Ohio
Labor Party



[ 5 ] Shua of Virginia
Democratic-Republican Party



[ 4 ] Sibboleth (realpolitik) of West Virginia
Cultural Marxist Party



[ 1 ] Talleyrand of Maine
Labor Party



[ 6 ] tmthforu94 of Kansas
Federalist Party



[   ] Write-in:


88  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of James Monroe on: December 13, 2013, 01:46:41 pm
Owned slaves=automatic HP.

Does that include the free blacks that also owned slaves?

I love how you basically assume he's okay with slavery as long as black people own other people.

I love how he assumes owning slaves makes someone an HP by default.

You are owning other human beings.

Nobody is defending the act of slavery here. It's just a bit ridiculous to slave owning as a factor in an opinion poll about someone born in the 18th century.

Agreed. Most of the 18th century politicians in the western world would be horrible racist scumbags by todays standards. But applying modern standards is not fair to those people.
89  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: What Should Kazakhstan's Foreign Policy Priorities Be? on: December 13, 2013, 01:39:00 pm
Sending Borat on more factfinding-mission to the West.
90  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 12, 2013, 05:32:38 am
I know the bill will fail to get through, but I am voting:


Aye
91  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Northeast Environment Act on: December 11, 2013, 10:33:37 am
The previous act only talks about state parks, not regional parks.
This new law will also establish a Regional Parks Service to manage the parks.

Quote
A few things;

(1) It would be interesting to designate some parks now, in this bill.  Or, we could draft a proposal/list of possible state parks and add them to this legislation at another point.

(2)  Why an arbitrary 250 employees?  Shouldn't we allocate set funds now, and allow for the service to determine the required workforce, be it more or less.

1. It could be done within this law. But we should start to find and create those parks.

2. The 250 employees is a start, to set up the Regional Park Service and start creating the parks.
92  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How many posters do you think have you on ignore? on: December 09, 2013, 02:06:59 pm
None.
93  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 01:46:25 pm
Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

But the law still gives parents the option to do so. And it should be more regulated to makes sure that children are taught the things they need to know, not some crazy stuff their parents believe in.

Who are we to tell parents what they can and can't teach their children? If parents don't like public schools they should be able to withdraw their child and either homeschool them or send their child to private school --without getting the consent of the government. Notification is one thing, consent is another.

Plus, people are entitled to believe what they can't to believe. People's views of extremist is extremely variable. For instance, you apparently think madrassa's are categorically extremist --and thats complete bull.

To start with your final words: I do believe schools that are only based on religious grounds and teach on religious grounds should be considered as extremist. The world is more than the Bible, Quran or books like that.

And what kids are taught at home is not our business, in it self. After all, normally a child goes to school and hears other things, other opinions. It makes the mind of child more broad and more open to different opinions and different people. But with home schooling, this is not the case. That makes it more problematic in my opinion.

Everyone has the right to believe what he or she wants, but teaching your children only your believes is wrong. It enslaves the children to your way of thinking. It can close the mind of children.

And of course you can send your child to private school. As long as the private school has a normal curriculum. Created and judged by the government.


Quote
Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.


We should compel parents to send their kids to public schools but supporting and fostering excellent public schools!

I completely agree with that.
94  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 01:00:26 pm
Why the opposition? Because I don't believe home schooling is in the best interest of the child.

But the law still gives parents the option to do so. And it should be more regulated to makes sure that children are taught the things they need to know, not some crazy stuff their parents believe in.
95  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 12:51:17 pm
Home schooling will not be prohibited. Look at the bill, people should apply to the local education department to get permission.
96  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 11:08:37 am
I know what a madrasa is.
But if parents are teaching their children extremist religious views and other extremist stuff, than what is the difference? When in school, they at least get to hear other opinions.
97  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 09:06:58 am
Is the curriculum of home schooling good enough? Why are parents keeping their kids home? Is home schooling in a way nothing more than a madrasa?

I am fearful of home schooling because of the reasons behind it.
98  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 09, 2013, 08:39:02 am
I can support a comprehensive education bill.

But when it comes to pupils staying in school until 18, it is very important to me. Students should graduate. Making it in the world without a high-school diploma is tough. It also keeps young people of the job market, which might help older people.
Home schooling is bad in my opinion. Children should be in school, away from their parents and get a good education. Interaction with other children at school is important when growing up.
99  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE2: Pet Snakes Owning Restrictions Act on: December 08, 2013, 03:37:28 pm
Aye
100  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: NE1: Education Reform Act of 2013 on: December 08, 2013, 03:37:00 pm
Having searched on the wiki I did not find legislation that tells us that minors need to stay in school until they reach the age of 18. I want to fix that because I believe we should encourage minors to stay in school and graduate. Minors should not leave school without a diploma and start working in low-paying jobs. With a diploma they maybe can go to college and make something out of their lives.
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