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1  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: Today at 01:20:05 am
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What was the "right wing" of the GDR civil rights movement?  More associated with the Lutheran Church?
Most of the civil rights movement was in some way associated with the Lutheran Church. See the late prime minister of Sachsen-Anhalt, Reinhold Höppner (SPD), as an example, also the Alliance90 and Green types. Right Wing is meant as a set of politicial opinions. They were socially conservative, stressing religious values, wanted reunification subito, free market economy etc., while those groups that formed Alliance 90 and to some extent even the Social Democrat Party (SDP; sic!) at the beginning wanted a reformed GDR with democratic socialism

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How important was the CDU block party in the creation of the "new" CDU in the East?
Very important, as this (and the Democratic Peasant Party) was were most of the members and the ressources came from. With the exception of the top tier of the national level, that was ousted as a scapegoat, many politicians at district (Bezirk) and muncipal (Kreise und Gemeinden) level had unhurted careers, e.g. many CDU mayors and Landräte stayed in office after 1990, though of course the district and muncipial parties had been an fully integrated part of the GDR political system, and their role had not been opposition.
The German unification and the popularity of Kohl and some flagship imports like Kurt Biedenkopf overshadowed this, of course, so they all claim to have been purified and made an 180 degree turn from what they said before October 1989.

And only the SED/PDS was stripped of its property. CDU and FDP were allowed to keep it or at least sell it.
2  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 04:20:15 pm
What was DSU?

Basically the CSU's short-lived attempt to expand to East Germany back in 1989/1990 (DSU stands for German Social Union instead of Christian Social Union).

However, the experiment was soon abandoned at the CDU's request, because they didn't want to face a conservative competition outside of Bavaria.

After the DSU was left to survive on its own, it was quickly reduced to the status of a minor splinter party.
That's one part of the story. The other part is: The right wing of the GDR civil rights movement founding a party. The CDU also had been a bloc party, so the DSU started as an alternative for those who did not want to be associated with bloc partydom and the old regime. DSU turned out to attract more conservative people. And then came the CSU intervention that did not really work out well, especially since most competent members went to the CDU quite quickly, at least after they did'nt pass the threshold in the 1990 Bundestag and Landtag elections.
3  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 03:05:43 pm
Well, it's probably not "linguistic imperialism" to call a city, like a huge majority of its inhabitants call it. ;-)

Without having worked out the details there seems a quite strong correlation between AfD strength and DSU strength of 1990/94.
4  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 02:44:16 pm
It's Budyšin.

Only, if you belong to the ethnic minority of the Sorbs.
5  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 02:28:39 pm
well, it's an ex-four-star-hotel, of course.
6  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 01:59:41 pm
Bautzen actually is a beautiful town, so for me such results really come out of nothing. I was born there and lived there for the first five years of my life. So, such results really hurt.
7  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 01:47:54 pm
Does anyone know what's wrong with Bautzen 5 ?

15% AfD
11% NPD

100% counted.

That's up from 7% NPD and 0% AfD in 2009.

The rise of 700 votes in the city of Bautzen of about 38.000 inhabitants maybe comes from the mobilisation against an Asylbewerberheim there. That's the only local factor I could think of, because this is a result and difference towards 2009 without parallel. AfD is regularly stronger in East Saxony, because of the near border associated by it and maybe even the dumb people's fear of the wolf.
8  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics (State election in Saxony today!) on: August 31, 2014, 01:32:29 pm
It seems, that the only district, that will not got to the CDU is Leipzig 2, that has the "Szeneviertel" of Connewitz and Südvorstadt in the south of the city in it. Some other Leipzig constituencies are close, but CDU should eek out a win in all of them, some with very thin margins. One Chemnitz constituency was close. Dresden was awfully lame.
9  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics on: August 31, 2014, 09:23:00 am
Damn, the first turnout report from 10am shows that only 5.7% of all eligible voters have voted so far, compared with 8.7% in 2009.
This is without mail voters, though. Well, thet happens if you set an election intentionally at the last day of the summer holidays. The rainy weather would not help either.
At least in Leipzig, turnout is acellerating a little bit throughout the afternoon, so they are now ahead of the European election numbers at Saxony-Anhalt 2006 level.
10  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics on: August 31, 2014, 09:21:34 am
good for cdu, left & npd.
I doubt, that this will be good for the left. Differently from common wisdom the average Linke voter is not so much the retiree "I vote my party whatever happens" voter. Their best ages are more the 40-60 year olds.
11  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Favorite planet is our solar system? on: August 27, 2014, 04:02:53 am
Earth is probably the best to live on. In 20.000 years, Mars could be the alternative for those, who want a cooler climate. ;-)
12  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics on: August 27, 2014, 03:57:48 am
Some "grand" coalition that would be in Sachsen.
The SPD will probably have at least more grandezza than their 9,8 percent of 2004. Some predictions and thoughts of one who is fleeing from Saxony for personal economic reasons. ;-)

CDU: 38% [40,2% in 2009]

The CDU will clearly lose There is some CDU fatigue going on and the Merkel style campaign of promoting prime minister Stanislaw Tillich, who is quite popular for not publicly bothering with things like politics or holding an opinion, does not seem to work too good for them. They have now been ruling the state for 24 years and are increasingly acting like they would own it. Problems are increasing steadily, too. There is a lack of investment into kindergardens, schools, university, infrastructure despite building new big roads that nobody needs. Now, that the election is near they are doing action programs to look as they could fill all the holes, they neglected over the past five years. That does not seem to convincing. Governing together with the most incompetent and insolent FDP state party (which means something probably does not help, too.
The other part of their strategy were - also merkelesque - attempts of asymmetrical demobilisation, also by playing dirty tricks like holding the election at the end of the summer vacation, so that families with children are in holiday during the campaign (old people will vote CDU anyway) and also some gerrymandering to win all constituencies (overhang seats are not fully compensated in the Saxonian electoral law). But the key part of merkelesque strategy - doing a personal feel-good campaign without proclaiming any content of policies and strategies how to deal with the problems of the state does not seem to work in their favour as the typcial conservative rural Saxon voters will be inclined to vote against those "evil foreigners and Brussels that are overwhelming our country" and so for AfD and NPD and some will probably also want to go for the populist FDP as black-yellow still is possible, but not probable, if the FDP is crossing the threshold.

Die Linke: 21% [20,6%]

The Left party is doing a quite decent campaign and a quite decent top candidate in Rico Gebhardt, but who is literally unknown - so they go more with content. Though their dialectical approach of linking things that are already achieved to things they want to do is probably a little bit too intellectual for the average voter. But on the other hand, people and journalists ask, what they mean by that, so it's a starter for Wahlkampf conversation. Examples: "Pisa-Lob und weniger Schulabbrecher" (Praise by the PISA study and less school dropouts), "Sächsisch und weltoffen" ("Saxon and cosmopolitan") with the picture of the famous Yenidze tobacco factory in Dresden, also called the "tobacco mosque" for obvious reasons, or "Industrietradition und Energiewende" (Energiewende is now the polticial German term for "getting out of fossil fuels and building up renewables"). I think they would be ready to govern, but as long as SPD and Greens are bitching around against them, this will not happen.

SPD: 12% [10,4%]
The SPD is doing a rightful battle matériel, but they really do a campaign that is tailored towards their top candidate Martin Dulig, who has a real awkward personality and never did say something that has content, despite "The Left party is evil and we are the serious and competent people's party (mind the German obsession of being a "Volkspartei") on the left. So all they have are sh**tty face posters of Dulig and attention-whoring because nobody notices them for all attention is concentrating on the true antagonist of Gebhardt and Tillich, because everybody knows the most probable outcome is a CDU/SPD-coalition like 2004-2009, and the only difference is that both partners will have less of a profile concerning the contents and worse staff, this time. Some badmouths already call the SPD campaign "the most expensive twelve percent ever"

AfD: 7,5 %
NPD: 4 % [5,6%]

The AfD, especially in Saxony, is a party of frustrated right-wing old white middle class men, despite their top candidate Frauke Petry, who is a quite energetic not-so-old woman and entrepreneur who is trying to give them a reasonable voice. Their platform and campaign is a strange mix of law and order right wing populism (spotted by some folklore like a quota of music sung in German in the radio airtime and referenda concerning the building of minarets (there isn't even one, now), economic liberalism, also exploiting ostalgia and 1989 the same time ("Dafür sind wir 1989 nicht auf die Straße gegangen"/ We didn't go out on the streets in 1989 for that"). Their probable voters mostly seem to be disappointed former CDU and FDP voters, added by some NPD and Linke protest voters, but not to a high extent.

As the pollsters are now seeing NPD up to five percent, there seems now to be a real core of NPD voters in Saxony. I would've expected that the AfD is gaining more from them than from CDU, but polls suggest this is not the case. Unless this is not just the pollsters calculating a "shy right winger effect" that already has ceased to exist, this would be the real concerning story of this election, because one would think that the less disgusting AfD would be an alternative for mere protest voters.

Greens: 7% [6,4%]
The Greens are doing a campaign stressing their core values and are now having a typcial Green "Doppelspitze" (two official top candidates) for the first time, as they wanted to contain Antje Hermenau who comes from the right wing of the party, has been an open proponent of a black-green coalition (not so much for the last year) and despises the Left party. Despite being quite isolated politically inside the party, noone really tries to oust her, because she is claimed to have some appeal to moderate voters (weither this is good, if it is even true, is a very debateable issue, because she also scares people that are more left wing). Volkmar Zschocke is a well-respected long-term muncipial politician from Chemnitz, but he seems to be very unknown outside his town, so the Doppelspitze did probably not achieve its main goal. They will get their core voters out, win some in rural areas, where they had at some places decent results in the 2014 municipial elections, and be more stagnant at the big cities (that have more voters, though, by a massive inmigration over the last ten years from the rural parts and other states, eastern and western alike. So their small wins, if any, should be attributed to demographic change.

FDP: 4 % [10%]
FDP is campaigning mainly for loan votes, the exact opposite of their policies while in government (more policemen, better public transport) and is hoping for the votes of cars ("Your car would vote for us" REALLY is a campaign poster slogan"). Of course, claiming the opposite of their actual policies has a tradition there. In 2004 at the height of the protest wave against the job-market reform ("Hartz laws") they really placarded "Herz statt Hartz". At least they are not recylcling the CDU slogan from the seventies "Freiheit statt Sozialismus"/"Freedom instead of socialism", which they actually wanted to do.

Others: 6,5% [6,8%]

I am not doing predictions for the different splinter groups

Also run:
Partei Mensch Umwelt Tierschutz/ Party Human, Environment, Animal Protection [2,1%]
Wants to loose its single-issue animal protection image and is campaigning on an environmentalist, anti-lobbyism (quite ironic) platform. Comes more from a "christian humanist" background than the Greens and seems to be more socially conservative, but I don't know if many of their voters notice their platform, anyway.

Pirate Party [1,9%]
The fad is over.

Bürgerrechtsbewegung Solidarität (BüSo)/ Civil Rights Movement Solidarity [0,2%]
We all know Lyndon LaRouche is the only person who can save the world by building a giant magnetic rail to Moscow and Peking and by this, prevent the third world war.

Deutsche Soziale Union (DSU)/ German Social Union [0,2%]
Yes, this remnant of the right wing of the GDR civil rights movement, that was first pampered and then dropped by the CSU with the intelligent people moving forward to the CDU, is still around.

Bürgerbewegung pro Deutschland [0,2%]
The Saxonian branch of this xenophobic scum is mostly the former "Saxonian People's Party" of a former NPD Landtag member, that surprisingly found out after years of research and experience, that the NPD is very right wing.

Free Voters [1,4% as Freie Sachsen]
Will geht their fair share in some rural areas.

Die PARTEI
Martin Sonneborn's satiricial project is also running and will get their fair share in some urban areas.
13  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics on: August 26, 2014, 11:28:17 am
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Are there any significant demographic differences between Saxony and Brandenburg? I know Saxony has become the most prosperous new Land, but that occurred after the CDU rose to power, not before.  Brandenburg has some gritty industrial towns near the Polish border (Left strongholds, I gather) but also some prosperous suburbs of Berlin.
Path dependency is clearly a big factor. Another may be, that the CDU in Saxony has been successfully exploiting a strong regional identity that influences political culture, that is not so much the case in the other East German Länder. And of course, the big brain drain of the nineties and processes of deurbanisation did shape the political landscape, too. But of course, this also is true for the other states.
Actually, the North-South-Gradient of voting CDU/(DSU) vs. SPD/PDS and now Linke was already visible in the 1990 Volkskammer election, where there was no Biedenkopf, of course. One basic thing, often forgotten, is, that the south of the GDR (Saxony, Thuringia, district of Halle) has been industrialised and prosperous before 1945 and the north not so much, despite Berlin, Magdeburg and some industry here and there in Brandenburg. Industrial policy of the GDR has always been to decrease those differences, so the north became more industrial (so also integrating the Neusiedler/expatriates into the system), as became agriculture as a whole, while the south saw more lack of investment and forms of decay (well, a hard word). So political messages to rebuild a former glory of economic strength and a the bürgerliche Tradition were more appealing there, obviously.

Demographically it is always difficult to measure, where those differences of industrialisation come from. In general one would think, that Saxony's three big cities that nowadays make up one third of the population should shift it more to the left, but Dresden has it's Residenzstadt tradition, that makes it more conservative (they now after the May muncipal election have a left majority for the first time in their assembly after 1990), Leipzig has its tradition as the city of the Bürgertum, merchants, culture etc. Of course, it was also a highly industrialised town, but the working class here was highly disillusioned by what the GDR had made of their town and what capitalism and democracy did to it and their lives, after, which also seems to be the case in Chemnitz.

If you look at the smaller towns, one can say that the "typical industrial town" in Saxony has been older (with a medieval/early modern core) and smaller than in Brandenburg. Where this is not the case, like in Riesa and Gröditz, you got relatively strong results for the left parties.
14  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: German Elections & Politics on: August 26, 2014, 07:48:58 am
This popularity also - by electoral success - influenced - where the moderate/ centrist politicians went to (oversimplificiation garanteed).
15  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Official 2014-15 Club Soccer/Football Discussion Thread on: August 26, 2014, 03:50:52 am
The most notable result of the first Bundesliga matchday was Leverkusen's 2:0 win in Dortmund. The Werkself (I had to to this) played a very good pressing and had a good offense, especially in the first half. Bellarabi (came from Braunschweig) scored after mere nine seconds, after which seemed to be an studied move of the whole team through the surprised Dortmund defense rows.

Bayern won, because of Wolfsburg being stupid.
16  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: People who are both FFs and HPs (at the same time) on: August 19, 2014, 07:33:23 am
Bismarck
You can argue, that Bismarck also did some good, but does "is also making some good" make one an Atlas "freedom fighter" already?
17  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Official 2014-15 Club Soccer/Football Discussion Thread on: August 19, 2014, 05:02:22 am
Very wrong, let's just recycle the cans and fill them with surströmming! ;-)

The first round in the German cup is over and I was quite good at predicting, what the interesting matches would be. ;-)

Five(!) teams of the 1st Bundesliga have been kicked out.

Chemnitz (3rd league) vs. Mainz 5:5 a.e.t. 5:4 in penalties. This match was really spectacular
VfL Bochum (2nd league) vs. VfB Stuttgart 2:0. Stuttgart was really weak and 2nd Bundesliga front-runner Bochum was clearly better.
1. FC Magdeburg (4th league) - FC Augsburg 1:0
Rülpsburp "Leipzig" (2nd league) - SC Paderborn 2:1 a.e.t.
Dynamo Dresden (3rd league) - FC Schalke 04 2:1. Schalke have very good players with great technique, e.g. Choupo-Moting, who came from Hamburg, but they did not work as a team, their defense was horrible, and Dynamo played very clever and earned their win.

A propos HSV, they only beat 3rd league site Energie Cottbus at the penalties.
Some 2nd league sites also had hillarious results, so four 4th league (Regionalliga) teams advanced to the second round which has to be a record for today's mode of the cup competition.



18  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: North Rhine Westphalia on: August 19, 2014, 04:41:24 am
The base of the CDU narrowed over time and the SPD was successfull filling the arising gaps for a long time. There are several factors, that seem to play a role. Of course, if you compare the SPD results of the forties/fifties and later years, bear in mind the self-castration and later ban of the KPD, that had their strongholds at Rhine and Ruhr and still got 14 percent in the 1947 Landtag election.

The SPD was for a long time underrepresented as its "natural base" were workers in a protestant environment. You still can spot the borders of the protestant Lippe region in electoral maps, today. The region that is now NRW was mostly catholic and even the protestant spots like the old towns of Dortmund or Essen where overwhelmed during industrialization by migration of catholics from all over the Rhineland, Silesia and (Congress) Poland.
The Centre Party then emerged as the party of a minority defined by religion (catholics) in a environment after the founding of the German Empire, that was hostile to them (Kulturkampf etc.), so it had appeal to catholic junckers, peasants, bourgeois and workers alike. So it was a catch-all-catholic-party with several wings and had overall reformist social policies (European meaning).
After the division of the SPD they lost the revolutionary types to the KPD so all they got was reformist seculars and Protestants (generalization alert).

You have to bear in mind that all three parties had their own societal organisations, e.g. trade unions. The Rhineland and Ruhr area was a heartland of the Christlicher Gewerkschaftsbund (Christian Trade Union Federation) in the Empire and Weimar years. After 1945 the DGB was founded as a general trade union organisation that united the socialist/social democrat "Free" and the Christian trade unions, who lost their millieu-defining role, though some remnants of these organisations still exist.
Also, the CDU was not the "catholic party" as the Zentrum was and catholics were not a minority anymore in the new Federal Republic. The Nazi era ironically also helped to loosen the bounds between church and people, especially in the urban areas, e.g. by crushing the remnants of the Polish millieu.
So catholic workers now were over time much less inclined to vote CDU based on religion and it seems to have been Adenauer's (from Rhineland, former mayor of Cologne) and Arnold's (long time prime minister, former mayor of Düsseldorf, to the left of Adenauer) personal appeal that delayed the results of this process for several years.

That the CDU abandoned the Christian left by favouring remilitarisation brought a bourgeois element to the SPD that surely set up the symbolic changes of the Bad Godesberg party program and helped to come out of their class tower. Long-term prime minister Johannes Rau, came from the GDP.

After 1966 the SPD was for a long time seen as successfull moderating the economic and social changes that came with the decline of the coal and steel industry. They were percieved as "Kümmererpartei" ("a party that takes care of"; much of the appeal of prime minister Hannelore Kraft comes from hat) and the CDU never had that much of an offer towards the urban working class, that has been struck by many crises for over 45 years. 

Migration after World War II also plays a role (Most of the expatriates and those who left GDR came from protestant areas). The so called "guest workers" and their offspring probably did not play an electorally role until the late 80s, but they were and are still, strongly leaning towards the parties of the left.

19  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Official 2014-15 Club Soccer/Football Discussion Thread on: August 15, 2014, 04:08:08 am
The cans just need to vanish! Of course, they may stay in Salzburg as you wish, but they should surely vanish from my (now ex-)hometown of Leipzig.

Nonetheless, the German Cup is starting it's first round (Friday till Monday). The mode is one match knockout.

The mode of drawing that is used nowadays automatically leads to no matches of Bundesliga sites against each other. But there is a history of upsets of highly regarded professional clubs by smaller ones. In 1994 FC Bayern was defeated by famous TSV Vestenbergsgreuth that later merged with Spielvereinigung Fürth to the now named SpVgg Greuther Fürth (which is of course the most silly name in German professional football). By the way I'm now officially rooting for "Uhlenhorster SC Paloma" from Hamburg in this round *g*

Some matches to follow:

Chemnitzer FC - FSV Mainz 05
Chemnitz is front-runner of the 3rd League after four matches, and Mainz was not very convincing in the Europa League qualifiers, which they lost against Asteras Tripolis from Greece

Vfl Bochum - VfB Stuttgart
Bochum is the front-runner of the 2nd Bundesliga and Stuttgart has a history of silly first-round defeats.

RasenBallsport Leipzig - SC Paderborn 07
Never mind what I said about Fürth converning silly team names... Matheschitz' German "project", fourth after two matches in the second league against last year's sensational first-league promoters Paderborn. This is probably a match, where no team is favoured.

Dynamo Dresden - FC Schalke 04
Will be automatically interesting because of the die-hard supporters on both sides.

Bayern has to play at Preußen Münster, Dortmund at Stuttgarter Kickers.

As I am now in Berlin: Union Berlin, the best of all clubs here *g*, has to travel to the Schwäbische Alb to meet their new 2nd league colleagues of FC Heidenheim, there.

The mediocre Western club of Hertha BSC has almost a bye, meeting Viktoria Köln from the Regionalliga West (fourth tier)

The German champion of 1908 and 1911, Viktoria Berlin, has won last year's Berlin Cup and is also competing. They are now in the Regionalliga Nordost and get a visit from Eintracht Frankfurt.

20  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Austrian Single Member Parliamentary Districts on: August 15, 2014, 03:22:28 am
Why would a small centrist party without much of a Hochburg (defined as places where they could actually win seats) want FPTP, anyway?
21  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Turkish Presidential Election: August 10, 2014 on: August 14, 2014, 05:42:01 am
I don't know if there is really too much to discuss about the election itself. The geographic patterns, for instance, seem quite "normal" for the time after the rise of the AKP.

The further implications of it are, of course, interesting. Will AKP/Erdogan succeed to alter Turkey to a full presidential system of government? Are there any hindrances to the tendencies of authorianism and corruption we can see, especially in the last years?
Will the economic course of growth at all costs go on? How long can it go on?
When will there ever emerge an alternative to AKP other then petrified Kemalism? It actually has to happen at some point.

In a less general attempt: Is there something like an Erdogan-Gül-Showdown going on? German media imply that.
22  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Austrian Elections & Politics (Next: Vorarlberg state election - Sept. 21) on: August 13, 2014, 07:55:55 am
That and the fact that people outside Austria have actually heard of Vienna. Probably most people from elsewhere in Europe think that Salzburg is Austria's second largest city...

True. Most foreign people probably know Salzburg best, followed by Innsbruck (older people, because of the Olympics).

In fact, Graz is the 2nd largest city though. Linz is probably not well known either.
Linz is of course known for Ephraim Kishon's great satire short story about an overly eager local journalist doing an interview with him (well, the I-narrator, but still...). But maybe it is just me. ;-)
23  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Official 2014-15 Club Soccer/Football Discussion Thread on: July 30, 2014, 07:20:08 am
So I am routing for Baku here. The cans just shall vanish from football.
24  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: AFA: American Football Association on: July 23, 2014, 04:01:16 am
I love, how the Milwaukee Badgers wear the new German national team skirts, but reverse home- and away-skirts. ;-)
25  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Opinion of "GauchoGate" (= German footballers dissing the Argentinian losers) on: July 19, 2014, 02:24:33 am
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Actually the most revealing thing about this non-scandal is that it shows that German footballers have enough knowledge of South American stereotypes to have some idea of what a 'Gaucho' is,
I think, it is more the other way around. In Germany, Gaucho is used as a nickname for the Argentinian football squad since Menschengedenken (since man can remember), and many people probably do not know where that comes from and that there are Gauchos outside of Argentina.
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