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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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26  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of John Brown? on: August 11, 2016, 05:57:37 pm
Very, very flawed FF.
27  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: How will you react if Hillary wins your state? on: August 10, 2016, 11:06:21 am
I will laugh and laugh and laugh all the way until 2020.
28  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City finally closes, thousands of jobs lost on: August 05, 2016, 01:12:03 pm
Uhh, this wasn't a failure from the start, and Trump doesn't own it. It was a failure once gambling was legalized elsewhere - Philadelphia is about to build it's 5th casino - and once the state of New Jersey failed to adequately build infrastructure to support the city (including but not limited to a serious airport).

In case you missed it, this lasted substantially longer than some of the other casinos in AC

But muh Trump, muh capitalism #YouDidntBuildThat
Well, he did put his name on it.
29  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Hero Punches Zimmerman in the Face on: August 05, 2016, 01:11:18 pm
Good, the murderer who got off scot free because of "Stand Your Ground" deserves a little payback.
30  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Madison County, ID on: August 04, 2016, 06:06:51 pm
There's an article from 10 years ago about Madison County's being the reddest (blue in Atlas fashion) place in the country:

http://www.salon.com/2006/10/24/reddest_state/


That said, it will be as Madison County goes, so goes Utah.  Will probably turn out 60-30-10  for Trump-Johnson-Clinton.

Yeah, Madison County has very close demographics to Utah, or at least Utah County in the state of Utah, so however it goes will indicate something about Utah's votes. I say 55-35-15 for Trump-Clinton-Johnson though.
31  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Satanic Temple to open elementary school programs on: August 03, 2016, 02:45:48 am
They're opening up one of these in Salt Lake City, so it'll be interesting to see my fellow Mormon's reactions.
32  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: UT - Hinckley Institute/Salt Lake Tribune: Clinton +1 [Poll actually from June] on: August 02, 2016, 11:19:57 pm
^^^ Weber County (Ogden) is the bellwether of Utah, Democrats have to win that if they want to win the state, they can lose most of everything else by decently large margins as long as they run it up in SLC as well.

So Obama narrowly won Salt Lake County in 2008 (48.2-48.1 Obama) and lost Weber in '08 (62-35 McCain) when Utah went (62-34 McCain).

What kinds of margins would it take in Salt Lake County to actually flip? Weber County sounds like ground zero if you look at the "Mormon Vote" in a state that is 62% LDS....

So of the two-party vote, would Hill-Dawg need to hit 58-60% in Salt Lake County and narrowly win Weber (Ogden) to make the math work?
That's correct, and winning Summit County and San Juan County would also be helpful, as they're relatively Democratic (Summit has Park City liberals and San Juan is where the Utah portion of the Navajo Nation is).

Possibly Grand County as well, I think Obama won that in 2008.
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: UT - Hinckley Institute/Salt Lake Tribune: Clinton +1 on: August 02, 2016, 08:14:03 pm

I'm kinda with Trey and Matt.  Kooky beliefs, but incredibly nice people.  Good singers, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsINANZ6Riw

I dated a former Mormon briefly (true dis) Had two children, divorced from his wife. From this and from what we talked about, some Mormons can be needlessly callous at times. Nice isn't always the same as kind or sincere.
It's true, there are awful Mormons just the same as anyone else. We tend to have a polite demeanor, but that doesn't change the fact that we're human, and are subject to the same positives and negatives as anyone else.

Not the first time someone in Utah pretended to read and publish something that wasn't actually real.





There's no need to be needlessly rude like that.

My opinion of Trump rises slightly everytime I see a Utah poll.

Why?

Let's just say that I don't enjoy being low-energy harassed in the town centre at 2 o'clock in the afternoon on New Year's Eve. Smiley
Fair enough. Though we are moving away from the "door-to-door" and public area conversations model, we're moving towards a model of referrals, so blame your friends or friends of friends for that.

As for low-energy... you should have been around at the time of the original Mormon missionaries then. Very fiery.
34  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: UT - Hinckley Institute/Salt Lake Tribune: Clinton +1 on: August 02, 2016, 12:35:40 pm
Donald Trump is the worst cultural match of any Republican for Utah by any Republican nominee for President since at least the New Deal Era. Sure, Goldwater lost Utah, but mostly because of his scary stances on nuclear warfare. Being to the Left of George McGovern in foreign policy (Mormons are patriots without being Patriots) will hurt the Republican ticket in November at the very top even if I expect the Republicans to sweep statewide offices. Goldwater did not have investments in casinos, offenses to the sensibilities of devout Mormons not only for gambling itself (Utah has no legal gambling) but also for bawdy shows and rampant boozing and smoking.

(Sure, I am a liberal, but if I had to choose between living in Nevada or Utah, I would pick Utah, as I have "Mormon lungs" and a "Mormon liver" even if I am not a Mormon. I do not smoke and I drink rarely and never much at any time).   

Democrats have successfully co-opted  Mormon (Latter-Day Saints or LDS) respect for intact families and formal education that Eisenhower co-opted in the early 1950s, transforming Utah from a usually-Democratic state to a rock-solid Republican state. Probably because devout Mormons avoid tobacco and alcohol, Utah residents can avoid spending as much money on public health as  other Americans and can keep taxes low and public services at modest cost. Mormons take care of themselves, and non-Mormons assume that habit if they are to find life tolerable in Utah.

Donald Trump can lose this state, especially if the LDS hierarchy turns on him... which has not happened but would be no great surprise if it did. Count on Mitt Romney seconding the endorsement of the non=Republican nominee for which the LDS hierarchy calls upon Mormons to vote.  Mormons believe in the ideal of intact families  even if those families are not Mormons (Mormon missionaries will show up at the front door some time or another); the LDS made a reasonable response to same-sex couples after the Supreme Court ruled against state bans on same-sex marriage. Again, Mormons believe in intact marriages even if such marriages are same-sex.

The incumbent Republican nominee for the US Senate, not at all a liberal,  can win re-election 70-30 while Donald Trump loses, whether to Hillary Clinton or to Gary Johnson. Either way, Donald Trump loses Utah's six electoral votes, six electoral votes that he can hardly afford to lose. Democrats have not had to offend Mormon sensibilities to lose all but one Presidential election since 1948 -- but Republicans have always had a nominee compatible with Mormon values. That does not hold.         
Exactly that, except that the LDS Church will not endorse any candidate for any office. They haven't done that for decades. Other than that, you have it right/

My opinion of Trump rises slightly everytime I see a Utah poll.

Why?
35  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: UT - Hinckley Institute/Salt Lake Tribune: Clinton +1 on: August 02, 2016, 02:57:12 am
Dear mormen and morwomen,

I, Lief, known for my outrageous but fully justified anti-morman views, am willing to bury the hatchet and accept your sick cult with open arms, if you do the right thing this November and deliver the great state of Utah to your BEAUTIFUL NOMINEE, Hillary Clinton. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Lief
There's way too many people who think like that in Utah already, which is partially why Utah is so Republican. But I appreciate the thought. We're trying our best to deliver our votes to a non-Trump candidate. It might help if Romney endorses Johnson or Hillary herself.

If they use the same type of family narrative as he brought to the convention floor, adding a note on how they've kept their marriage vows through worst of times, he could actually be a hit.

Good point...

The key to a Democrat winning Utah this election cycle is in expanding beyond the traditional Democratic coalition of non-Mormons in the SLC area and carving away enough Mormon voters to eke out a narrow plurality.

Would Harry Reid help out here as well as part of a joint campaign event, or is he deeply disliked among Mormon Republicans and Indies?
Harry Reid is absolutely hated here except among the few Mormon Democrats, so he'd be a terrible surrogate.

But yes, the Democrats need to expand into the heavily Mormon suburbs, they might be able to win there, but the rural areas are lost forever.
36  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: What's Trump's path to victory without Utah? on: August 02, 2016, 02:01:22 am
If he's losing Utah, he's probably going to be losing the states that are much more vital for his victory. So he'd have little chance of winning.
37  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Your reaction if Donald Trump loses Utah on: August 02, 2016, 02:00:23 am
Lol, shrug, and realize Mormons really are a cult.

Cool story bro. But you're wrong.

Also, as a Utah Democrat, I'd be very, very amused by Trump losing Utah to either Clinton or Johnson.
38  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Does a Palestine-Jordan confederation sound like a good idea to you? on: August 02, 2016, 01:16:21 am
Isn't that exactly what the PLO tried to do with Black September or whatnot? Didn't they literally try to create a super Palestine-Jordan and take over the government?
39  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Hail, Columbia! (The Election of 1904 RUNOFF) on: August 02, 2016, 01:14:54 am
I don't actually mind this result, its interesting. Don't be swayed by the doubters.

COWARD! TRAITOR!

40  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Hail, Columbia! (The Election of 1904 RUNOFF) on: July 31, 2016, 11:48:55 pm
I don't actually mind this result, its interesting. Don't be swayed by the doubters.
41  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Vladimir Putin on: July 30, 2016, 11:05:32 pm
Lean FF.

But why?
42  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: NE-2 2016: Don Bacon vs. Brad Ashford: Who wins? on: July 30, 2016, 12:32:55 pm
Bacon has raised very little money, and Ashford managed to win previously in a red (atlas blue) district, in a very, very Republican year. I could see Ashford losing, but he's got cross-over appeal.
43  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Cory Booker on: July 30, 2016, 12:15:44 pm
He's alright, better than I expected. I especially like his stance on criminal justice, but his overtly pro-Wall Street attitude is a little worrisome, though to be expected from a New Jersey Senator.
44  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Has internet cult libertarianism morphed into cult alt right conservatism? on: July 28, 2016, 07:24:15 pm
Back in the 2007-2012 period it was often difficult to find an American political YouTube video that wasn't spammed with RON PAUL comments. But a lot of internet libertarians from that era, such as Stefan whatshisname, now advocate border controls, cultural preservation etc. Furthermore, YouTube videos are now spammed with DONALD TRUMP comments, despite the Libertarian Party polling at record numbers and looking set to easily break its all-time record for a presidential election.

Perhaps it's all down to a general anti-establishment thing, but still.

Oh crap, so THAT'S why my anarchist dad (anarcho-capitalist, and can't comprehend the idea of anarcho-socialism, as an FYI to our socialists) is suddenly a border control-loving, Muslim-fearing, cultural heritage "protecting" nut. He's a Stefan Molynuex cultist, so I imagine he's going with Stefan Molynuex's rant of the day. Explains so much if Stefan's gone all alt-right.

An an-cap dad that went alt-right? Weird he can't comprehend the anarcho-socialist side because they've been around longer as a group.  I'm not in that boat: I think the TSA is a failure but temporarily at least is a concentration of scrutiny on our borders (no silly wall) while we back off being Team America World Police and let the world cool off on our interventions.

He doesn't understand the idea of socialism being voluntary, so the idea of anarcho-socialism is incomprehensible to him. He doesn't recognize the early anarchists as being anarchists. But yeah, he's been a avid cultist of Stefan Molyneux's brainwashing crap, so he seems to be shifting positions with Molyneux. Also enjoys Lew Rockwell's writings.
45  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Has internet cult libertarianism morphed into cult alt right conservatism? on: July 28, 2016, 12:53:51 pm
Back in the 2007-2012 period it was often difficult to find an American political YouTube video that wasn't spammed with RON PAUL comments. But a lot of internet libertarians from that era, such as Stefan whatshisname, now advocate border controls, cultural preservation etc. Furthermore, YouTube videos are now spammed with DONALD TRUMP comments, despite the Libertarian Party polling at record numbers and looking set to easily break its all-time record for a presidential election.

Perhaps it's all down to a general anti-establishment thing, but still.

Oh crap, so THAT'S why my anarchist dad (anarcho-capitalist, and can't comprehend the idea of anarcho-socialism, as an FYI to our socialists) is suddenly a border control-loving, Muslim-fearing, cultural heritage "protecting" nut. He's a Stefan Molynuex cultist, so I imagine he's going with Stefan Molynuex's rant of the day. Explains so much if Stefan's gone all alt-right.
46  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Vladimir Putin vs. Petro Poroshenko on: July 28, 2016, 12:53:16 pm
One is a criminal, the other is an incompetent joke.

Putin's less a criminal and more a Bond villain in the flesh.
47  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Vladimir Putin vs. Petro Poroshenko on: July 26, 2016, 06:31:20 pm
Putin (sane)

Poroshenko (actually sane)
48  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Vladimir Putin vs. Michelle Obama on: July 26, 2016, 12:42:57 pm
Obviously I vote for either Vladimir Obama or Michelle Putin.
49  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Democratic congressman compares Isreali territory settlers to termites on: July 25, 2016, 10:51:21 pm
lmao are people in this thread actually dense enough to be making fun of him for his guam comments?

And he's of course entirely right on this issue.

What is with communists' hard-on for Palestine and without-fail antisemitic outlook?

To be fair, the weird love for Palestine and antisemitic outlook is present in both the far left and far right. I think David Duke for example has condemned Israel and praised Palestine that way.
50  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should celebrities stay out of politics? on: July 25, 2016, 02:22:30 pm
No, they can go into politics however much they like. But I do not think they should be treated as any sort of authority on politics or policy (I'm looking at you, anti-vaxxer celebrities, you're idiots).

If they formally get into politics, and successfully run for office, I'm more inclined to take their opinions seriously.
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