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26  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Democrats' ceiling in the 2016 House elections? on: June 22, 2016, 12:29:59 am
D+32 to 35 is probably the ceiling, just based on how much of a drag Trump could be.
27  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Utah being a competitive state on: June 21, 2016, 01:33:24 am
I'm gonna predict it right now: if more and more polls show Utah trending towards a toss-up, Trump will, in his frustration, say something offensive about Mormons that will exacerbate his problems there.

Well, he already called Mitt Romney (praise be unto him) a "loser", which made my fellow Mormons pretty mad. I imagine he could call us cultists or make polygamy jokes, which would solidify his defeat in Utah.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton & Trump VP news LATEST: Clinton team to start meeting short listers on: June 21, 2016, 01:28:13 am

Ugh, seriously, why won't the idea of a Castro VP just go away already, he's a terrible pick. Becerra is better than him in every way possible. Also Kaine is far too boring.
29  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which German party would you vote for? on: June 20, 2016, 11:05:06 pm
Which are the Greens? They seem pretty reasonable in Germany, so them.

Let's ask the autobiography of Daniel Cohn Bendit, one of the most prominent older statesman of greens, the great cosmopolitan who synthesised market politics with socially liberal causes:

„My flirtations with all children soon acquired a definitely erotic character. I could sense how young girls aged five had already learned how to get off with me. …

It happened several times that some children opened my codpiece and started caressing me. According to the circumstances of each case, I reacted differently, but the children’s wishes posed problems for me… when they insisted, I caressed them in return. I was accused of being a pervert, and there were letters to the City Council, asking whether I was paid for by public funds. Fortunately I had concluded my contract directly with the parents’ board, otherwise I would have been sacked…"



Gross. I still like the Green fellow from Baden-Wurttemburg though.
30  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Which German party would you vote for? on: June 20, 2016, 04:58:53 pm
Which are the Greens? They seem pretty reasonable in Germany, so them.
31  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Religious affiliation and stances on LGBT issues - opinions/thoughts? on: June 20, 2016, 04:53:44 pm
Oddly enough, Mormons support specific pro-LGBT policies (anti-discrimination, even marriage) at a higher number than is reported in this poll. And I guess we're not the worst on this anyway, thanks Jehovah's Witnesses.

I happen to be a Mormon in favor of LBGT rights, BTW.

Keep in mind that this was done in 2014 before the big overhaul of gay marriage hit its conclusion.

I wonder what more recent figures look like.

The above is true for me too ftr

Ah, I didn't see the "2014" bit. I would imagine we're at least in the mid-30s now, considering the last time Mormons were polled on same-sex marriage itself (sometime in 2015, I think), that's the amount of "active" Mormons who answered in favor.
32  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton & Trump VP news LATEST: Clinton team to start meeting short listers on: June 20, 2016, 12:20:41 pm
Hillary's Wall Street donors are threatening to abandon her if she picks Elizabeth Warren:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/elizabeth-warren-wall-street-vice-president-224489

BTW, they really like the idea of a Vice-President Tim Kaine.

All the better reason to choose Warren, then.
33  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Utah GOP chairman talks with Trump about state’s unusual tossup status on: June 20, 2016, 11:08:30 am
his Hilter-ish ravings about Muslims don't sit well.

Among the Mormons I know, this is the biggest issue. There's a "first they came for the Muslims, then they'll come for us" type mindset going on.

Bingo. Considering Mormons are the only religion in the United States that had an Extermination Order levied against us, we're very, very wary of people proposing state sanctioned religious oppression or discrimination. We tend to feel some similarities with American Muslims, and we know that we could be next.

And that's only compounded by Trump being an arrogant, sleazy, bad-mouthed, heartless, adulterer and greedy, and xenophobic demagogue. He gives off a sense of feeling accountable to no one, not even God.

Plus, we have a growing Hispanic Mormon population, and are more and more liberal on immigration these days. Heck, we've had illegal immigrant bishops (who in the Mormon vocabulary are just the leaders of one congregation) deported, and raised a fuss about their deportation.

Oh, and we tend to prefer politicians who are polite, at least seem reasonable, and who don't insult or attack their opponents.

So Trump is honestly the worst fit possible for Mormons, and thus the majority of Utah voters. His persona and campaign are ridiculously unpleasant for Mormons. We preferred Cruz because he at least seemed religious and honest (to conservative Utahns), and most Utahns weren't aware of the darker rumors about him.

I'm a liberal Mormon Democrat, so I'm disgusted by most of the Republicans who ran this year, but even so, Trump was as terrifying to me as he is to the more conservative Utahns.
34  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Religious affiliation and stances on LGBT issues - opinions/thoughts? on: June 20, 2016, 02:53:15 am
Oddly enough, Mormons support specific pro-LGBT policies (anti-discrimination, even marriage) at a higher number than is reported in this poll. And I guess we're not the worst on this anyway, thanks Jehovah's Witnesses.

I happen to be a Mormon in favor of LBGT rights, BTW.
35  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Germany regain its pre-1945 borders? on: June 20, 2016, 02:51:35 am
*looks at original poster, sees Israel avatar*

Huh.
36  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Utah GOP chairman talks with Trump about state’s unusual tossup status on: June 19, 2016, 01:04:14 am
lol good luck James Evans, you can't even stop your state party from having an internal civil war over the nomination system, how do you expect to convince Trump of anything?

As for Trump: Mormons, and specifically Utah Mormons hate every aspect of Trump's persona, his stated policies (especially the anti-refugee and religious persecution stuff), and almost everything about him. He's probably the worst fit possible for Utah;  even Barry Goldwater was a better fit, but lost Utah because Utah wasn't as partisan then. Trump very well could lose Utah even in this partisan age.

37  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Best and Worst Senators of the Past 50 Years: Kansas on: June 19, 2016, 12:12:58 am
Kassebaum from what little I know/Brownback
38  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Hail, Columbia! (The Election of 1896, Round 2) on: June 18, 2016, 01:42:08 pm
Wow, this is pretty lopsided.
39  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton & Trump VP news LATEST: Trump's list: Christie,Gingrich,Sessions,Fallin? on: June 17, 2016, 11:50:19 pm
My three guesses for Hillary's VP would be Kaine, Becerra, and Warren, all depending on what Hillary wants the VP to do.

No earthly idea on Trump.
40  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Alabama county refuses to lower flag to honor Orlando shooting victims on: June 17, 2016, 06:12:17 pm
Reading his explanation on Facebook, I think it makes sense. Of course CNN is making hay out of this, but I don't see any real issue here.

Yeah, sure, and it just so happens that he's following the flag code now, when I'm willing to bet he wasn't 100% consistent with it before. I doubt anybody responsible for the flag going at half-mast or not does. In fact, haven't flags across the nation gone to half-mast for other massacres that didn't involve government officials? Not counting San Bernadino in this case, since it was specifically mentioned in the article.

Heck, flags in Utah have gone at half-mast for the death of a top Mormon church leader or his wife more than once before.
41  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: UT Lt. Gov Gives a heartfelt apology to the LGBTQ community on: June 17, 2016, 12:55:23 am
When will he be primaried?

Well, he's on a ticket with the incumbent governor, who in fact is being primaried from the right, so... right now. The gubernatorial challenger is libertarian, but I think with a moralistic streak, dunno about the rival LG, who is only known for school voucher advocacy.

And of course there's the Dems sitting off to the side, already having accepted LGBT people (heck State Senator Jim Dabakis, who is openly gay, used to be the Utah Dem state party chair).
42  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Best and Worst Senators of the Past 50 Years: Indiana on: June 17, 2016, 12:03:28 am
Birch Bayh was awesome, whereas Dan Quayle was Dan Quayle.
43  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Senator Murphy (D-CT) launches talking filibuster on gun control on: June 15, 2016, 07:01:52 pm
Is he still speaking?
44  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should the monitoring of mosques be part of U.S. security activities? on: June 15, 2016, 06:57:22 pm
If there's probable cause and a warrant, sure--just like there should be anywhere.  But no, warrantless mass surveillance of mosques just because they're mosques would be a significantly unconstitutional overreach.

Seems like a reasonable statement.
45  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: President Obama has given addresses to the nation after 14 mass shootings on: June 15, 2016, 06:56:18 pm
He's the President and he can't get his own agenda passed. That's what's really sad here. Other Presidents with opposition-controlled congresses have accomplished much more together then this President has (even when he had complete control of congress from 2009-2011).

And which Presidents have had the sheer magnitude of opposition that he has had?
46  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Newt: Let's Create New Version Of House Un-American Activities Committee on: June 15, 2016, 06:49:19 pm
Gingrich is great with (and absolutely loves) two things: animals and space. Anything else he's awful on, so I think he should be either a NASA guy or the Cabinet position of National Zookeeper should be created.
47  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: UT Lt. Gov Gives a heartfelt apology to the LGBTQ community on: June 15, 2016, 06:41:24 pm
I do hope that with his newfound compassion he'll be open to pro-LGBT issues and legislation, but FF nonetheless.
48  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: UT-SurveyUSA/Salt Lake Tribune: Utah still in play on: June 15, 2016, 12:31:51 pm
The whites in Arizona appear to be more racist/supportive of Trump's building of a wall versus the "Jesus would welcome these people with open arms" Mormons in Utah (which is true). That's the difference.

But is that true of the subset of Arizona whites who are Mormon?

Depends on the Mormon; on the one hand you've got Russell Pearce, the former President of the Arizona State Senate, an odious guy who was responsible for the "papers please" law, and who affiliated with (and baptized into the LDS Church at least one) Neo-Nazis. His sons are also into the hardcore anti-immigration (and at this point its not just anti-illegal immigration) crowd.

On the other you've got Jerry Lewis (not the comedian), the State Senator who replaced Pearce when he was recalled, someone just as conservative, but less nightmarishly bigoted on immigration and so forth, and who was practically endorsed by the LDS Church.

Overall, I'd say Arizona Mormons tend to be more hardline on immigration than Utah Mormons, but there are exceptions.
49  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Happy 70th Birthday Donald J. Trump! on: June 15, 2016, 02:47:43 am
Happy Birthday, and I hope you spend your 71st in Trump Tower.... far away from the White House.
50  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Is Jill Stein an operative for the FSB? on: June 15, 2016, 02:44:10 am
No, and she's not even a useful idiot. Lenin would be disappointed in his modern-day "successor" using someone so politically useless.
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