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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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26  General Discussion / Religion & Philosophy / Re: Is Mormonism... on: May 21, 2016, 07:31:58 pm
Thanks for pre-emptively saying "no calling the LDS Church a cult", it actually really helps to stop that before its said.

Anyway, I would say we're a new form of Christianity. We're not similar to most forms of Protestant, though we were sorta close at the very beginning. We have an extra three books of scripture, we have prophets and apostles, we have a rather "top-down" structure, and we don't have very many lasting connections to the Protestant Churches.

However, we're still Christian. We literally call ourselves the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints", we included Jesus as the main figure of our new books of scripture, we talk about him all the time and specifically aspire to be like him (in a more literal sense than most churches). I mean, Jesus has all that the Father hath, and he wants us to have all that the Father hath as well, right? So we really, really want to be like Jesus.

What we aren't is Trinitarian Christian. We don't believe in the Trinity (we have a sorta compromise theological concept called the Godhead, where God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are united and "one" in purpose, but three distinct beings), we believe we can become like God the Father (though it isn't guaranteed like some people portray it), and of course we have Lucifer and his followers being spiritual siblings with us.

We call ourselves Christian, we stick Christ in more places than the Middle East, and we literally have his name in our church's name, so yes, I would call us Christian but not Protestant or Catholic. We're something else, a primitivist or millenarian Christian church.
27  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Recent bans on: May 21, 2016, 07:24:04 pm
Looks like d32123 got perma-banned. Sad

Oh no, he keeps getting banned from every forum he's on. He was actually a good guy on AH.com and just self-banned because of an extremely controversial issue (Native American languages: don't ask) that banned like six other people, but since then he seems to have become less serious poster and more angry edgelord.
28  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sabato TRUMP VP Shortlist on: May 21, 2016, 04:11:14 pm
This is the worst list of possible vp picks I have ever seen.

Sabato made a list of potential Hillary running mates which included Ken Salazar, Bill Nelson, Terry McAuliffe, Evan Bayh, and Tom Vilsack.

So, swing-staters, ultra-moderates, or both?
29  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: AZ-PPP (2018): Flake in trouble? on: May 21, 2016, 11:29:00 am
This race might get interesting if Trump wins in November. If Clinton wins, I'd rate it Likely R and almost certainly fool's gold for the Democrats.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_AZ_51916.pdf
I agree. Please don't let that atheist lesbian win statewide.

Really? You're really saying that. Well, okay then. Glad to know that I'm apparently the opposite of you on this.
30  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Ten largest US cities: Freedom Cities or Horrible Cities? on: May 21, 2016, 11:00:17 am
Honestly, I like big cities overall, especially the neighborhood culture that grows up around them. I prefer Salt Lake City, though admittedly that's because I've never actually been to any of the cities that are actually on the list.
31  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL-19: Clawson retiring on: May 20, 2016, 08:19:47 pm
Fun fact: Clawson is the only currently serving Mormon Congressman from outside the Mountain West region.
Correct. There are nine Mormons in the House: Clawson, Cresent Hardy (NV-04), Matt Salmon (AZ-06), and all 6 from Utah and Idaho. They're all Republicans, though there are two Mormon Democrats in the Senate (Tom Udall and Harry Reid).
Mark Udall of Colorado was also a Mormon IIRC, but he was defeated for reelection so RIP.

Actually Mark has never been a Mormon; his dad Mo Udall became an inactive Mormon long before Mark's birth, and I don't believe Mark identifies as any particular religion. Tom's dad Stewart Udall was more devout, but Tom Udall is rumored to be a Mormon in name only (a MINO, if you will).

Harry Reid is a believer though; he attends church services in both DC and Las Vegas back in Nevada; I even know a guy who attends that particular Vegas congregation and took pictures of Harry Reid chilling out in a church pew. He's also addressed the LDS Democrats caucus multiple times.
32  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: White House on lockdown after shots fired at the White House. on: May 20, 2016, 07:42:16 pm
regardless of anything else, why would another bother to do this, considering Obama's only got about 7 months left as president anyway?
He wasn't trying to kill Obama. He was trying to get the Secret Service to kill him because he couldn't do it himself, apparently. Suicide by cop situation.

Ah, well, that's a dramatic way to do it.
33  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: John Chiang is running for Governor of California on: May 20, 2016, 07:41:17 pm

How, exactly, is Newsom better?
34  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Dying Bob Bennett apologizes to Muslims for Donald Trump on: May 20, 2016, 07:36:14 pm
Well yes I'm grateful that he's apologizing to my community I don't think he's going to be accepted by many people after his vote for the Iraq war that did result in the deaths of over a million Iraqi Muslims or the Patriot Act that he voted for which has for the large part unfairly targeted many Muslims in this country I'm just stating a simple truth and if anybody wants to put me on ignore for that be my guest.

Also note that unlike chairman Sanchez I do not think that Bob Bennett was that bad of a guy all I'm saying here is just that you can't take back a vote that resulted in the deaths of over a million people on false pretenses and I'm not angry at him I'm just upset that so many people could have been fooled into voting for that but that's besides the point I'm glad that in the final steps of his life he took the time to try to make amends to our community for the mistakes that he made and I'm not going to bash him like chairman Sanchez does.

Very good points there; I admit that I am a little defensive of Utah politicians (really the state more than the politicians themselves) when they actually do something good, but I fully agree with you here. And I don't tend to like speaking ill of the recent dead unless they were really, really awful.

And full disclosure, I didn't actually bother to put anybody on ignore.

at the worst, he was a pretty generic Republican, .
That's pretty bad tbf

True, but as we've seen, one can be far, far worse.
35  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: White House on lockdown after shots fired at the White House. on: May 20, 2016, 07:27:49 pm
regardless of anything else, why would another bother to do this, considering Obama's only got about 7 months left as president anyway?
36  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: FL-19: Clawson retiring on: May 20, 2016, 01:42:17 pm
Fun fact: Clawson is the only currently serving Mormon Congressman from outside the Mountain West region.
37  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: HI-1: Takai retiring on: May 20, 2016, 01:40:28 pm
Maybe the GOP could nominate an actual Republican for this seat. So far the only GOP candidate is running as a Democrat as well.

Good luck winning in Hawaii with an "actual Republican".

Anyway, here's hoping Rep. Takai beats cancer, that's a lousy way to go.
38  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Dying Bob Bennett apologizes to Muslims for Donald Trump on: May 20, 2016, 01:05:46 pm
If the Democrats play their cards right this year, they could undo the monopoly the GOP has had on the Mormon vote since the 1980s.

It should be pretty obvious from their history that Mormons aren't big fans of discriminating against religious minorities. And since they live in an incredibly homogeneous region where pretty much everyone is white and Mormon, the two things that animate the GOP these days - resentment-fueled white identity politics and the Victimhood/Martyrdom Complex that Evangelical Christians have from occasionally having to encounter people who disagree with them - are absent.

There are getting to be more Mexicans. Although it is very strange how if you compare Utah to the surrounding states, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado... all seem to have larger Hispanic populations. Is there some sort of force field along the Utah border that keeps them out? Why this difference?

Remember: one of the reasons the Mormons chose Utah was that it was in Mexico. There are still very close ties between them and northern Mexico, where there is a notable Anglo Mormon population (of course, there are also many Hispanic Mexican converts all over the country, but that is another matter). I mean, this guy



whose name is Jeffrey Jones, has been a PANista senator from Chihuahua during the Fox term and a federal undersecretary of agriculture under Calderon. Talk about links Smiley

Also, there was a Brazilian Mormon senator, Moroni Bing Torgan. We do well in Latin America overall.
39  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Dying Bob Bennett apologizes to Muslims for Donald Trump on: May 20, 2016, 01:04:10 pm
He was sure friendly to Muslims when he voted to invade Iraq. Or voted for Gitmo. Or voted for the PATRIOT Act and other laws that target Muslim Americans.

I am not shedding any tears for this prick. He was a Bush II era Republican in every sense of the term, and when the cracks started to form in the dam, he didn't lift a finger to plug them. Which is why, when the dam broke, he was the first to be carried away in the tidal wave. One sob story that I'm sure his children (who grew up in the elite Washington/NoVA bubble) made up to show that he was above the rubes doesn't do any justice to him. Bob Bennett was part of the problem, and not the solution.

RIP HP.

Well, you're back on the ignore list.

But in any case, Bennett was not one of the worst; at the worst, he was a pretty generic Republican, no more warhawk-y or authoritarian than any other. Frankly, Utah's taken in thousands of Muslim refugees, which are now a thriving minority in Utah. Part of that was through Bennett's influence.
40  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: John Chiang is running for Governor of California on: May 20, 2016, 12:23:49 pm
Prefer Chiang on a purely personal basis (I really don't like Newsom, despite him ticking most boxes)

Newsom seems to be very unpopular at this forum.

Newsom is unpopular in a lot of places; he's regarded as untrustworthy and in the pocket of corporations. He's seen as too "slick", and some people think its inappropriate that he had an affair with the wife of a staffer. He's rightly praised for his marriage equality stance, but a lot of people feel he's too much to the right economically. Or at least that's the impression I've heard from Californians I've talked to on a few forums.

A few Californians I talked to said that they like Chiang because they don't see him as slimy like Newsom or Villaraigosa. They feel he's a lot like Jerry Brown; low-drama, good for California's economy, and not transparently ambitious. Plus they think it'd be nice for California to have an Asian-American governor.
41  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: California Senate Primary on: May 19, 2016, 07:30:10 pm
The general election should be an interesting means to determine which racial minorities Republicans in California dislike more: will they vote for the Black woman with the Anglo last name or for the Mexican lady? I don't buy that ideology will play a big factor in this choice.

I think you're forgetting that Harris at least has an Obama like demeanor to her, Sanchez has a "take no prisoners" sort of rhetoric.

Now normally, that brash, off-the-cuff style in this type of climate would probably endear the remaining Republicans more towards Sanchez. But the whole "build a wall" thing is probably gonna make 'em not so happy towards someone challenging them harshly.

The way I've heard it described is that Harris is patrician and Sanchez is.... the exact opposite.
42  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of Deval Patrick on: May 19, 2016, 07:18:22 pm
Was he better than Romney as governor?
43  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Whatever happened to the debt ceiling? on: May 19, 2016, 01:27:25 pm
Literally no one is ever going to actually call the debt in, because that would crash the world economy since the US is such a major economic player. The fuss about the debt ceiling is pointless, and hampers the US's ability to have a stable economy.
44  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Dying Bob Bennett apologizes to Muslims for Donald Trump on: May 18, 2016, 09:47:39 pm

Bob Bennett was one of the few Utah Republicans I actually respect/respected, and now that he's gone and another of my favorite Republicans is retiring from the state legislature, I can't think of a single one I actually respect.
45  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Bullies force halt to vote on allowing alcohol sales in Pine Ridge on: May 18, 2016, 09:19:49 pm
Well maybe if Natives placed more value as a culture on education and not being trash this wouldn't be a problem. And yes I would say the same for poor whites in the Southeast before you predictably try to play that card.



Still bigoted, but its nice that you're expanding your targets.
46  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Political and/or Ideological Figures you identify most with? on: May 18, 2016, 09:03:49 pm
Nestor Makhno
Buenaventura Durruti
Mikhail Bakunin
Pyotr Kropotkin
Joseph Déjacque
Emma Goldman
etc...

I recognize two of those names.
47  General Politics / Individual Politics / If the parties had to legally rename theirselves an insult from the other party on: May 18, 2016, 09:01:05 pm
What would be the best new name for each party?

That is, if the Democrats had to choose the name of the Republicans and vice versa, what would they choose?
48  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: we ain't done this one in a bit, POLYGAMY! on: May 17, 2016, 11:18:35 pm
Sure, why not.

I can't win no matter what long-hand explanation I put on this (Typical Post 1890's Mormon).



I don't want to empty-quote, but basically this.

I do think there should be polyandry if there's polygamy.
49  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Opinion of the Gaza Blockade? on: May 17, 2016, 06:00:31 pm
You should probably give more understandable satire/mockery, then.
50  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Political and/or Ideological Figures you identify most with? on: May 17, 2016, 05:59:34 pm
Oh, and I identify with Hubert Humphrey as well.
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