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1  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 29, 2016, 06:49:57 pm
Can someone well-versed in Labour politics explain to me the difference between the Soft Right and the Soft Left? I think I understand the fault lines between the soft and hard left, and between the soft right and the Kendallesque Blair fanatics, but what's really the barrier between Labour left and right? Is it rooted in specific issues, or is it mostly cultural or identity-based?

The Hard/Soft Left distinction is rooted in the politics of the 1980s; the Soft Left were those who backed Healey against Benn (or abstained) in the Deputy election, the Hard Left were those who (duh) voted for Benn. The leading figure in the Soft Left was Neil Kinnock and he formed an alliance with the Right (which by this point was almost entirely 'workerist'; the middle class element had almost all buggered off to the SDP) in order to cement his personal control over the Party with the aim of making a Labour win in a General Election feasible again. Throughout the 1980s there was a steady drip of defections from the Hard Left to the Soft Left, but the Soft Left never really organised itself as a faction (unlike the Hard Left which was organised at Westminster in the Socialist Campaign Group and in the CLPs in the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy) and has remained more of a tendency than anything else.

And the Soft Left is where you have to start in order to understand the splits on the Right; Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were both on the Soft Left when first elected but moved rightwards in response to the political turmoil (domestic and international) of the late 80s and early 90s. The same was true of most of the other leading figures in New Labour, from Blunkett to Beckett. They came to believe that the market could be used to achieve the old socialist goals and to heal the damage to the social fabric caused by Thatcherism. Because of their background on the Soft Left they were also socially liberal and they soon came to resemble (in one of Labour's greatest historical ironies) the intellectual Right that had been driven/had driven itself out of the Party in the early 80s. Disagreements between Blair and Brown over the direction of domestic and European policy saw this group fracture into the Blairites (who are grouped around the Progress organisation these days) and the technocratic grouping around Brown. The latter has often made common cause (at least at PLP level) with elements of the Soft Left; this is the best way to understand Ed Miliband's positioning. Note that (and very unusually for Labour) these are mostly 'elite' factions; they are comprised almost entirely of people who work in politics or used to. The major part of the Labour Right these days is the same 'workerist' Right (often referred to as the 'traditional Right' or the 'Old Right') as existed back in the 1980s and as has existed since the beginning of the Cold War. We're talking people who are firmly socialist, often as keen on State planning and hostile to the market as those on the Left, and frequently active trade unionists, but who are usually pro NATO, nuclear weapons and so on, and who are primarily political pragmatists. Almost all Labour members on the Right in the CLPs are like this, at least outside London. The traditional Right has always preferred organising behind closed doors which means there isn't the same laundry list of organisations that you'll find on the Hard Left: even 'Labour First' has until recently been a vehicle to get people elected to the NEC with no other real function, although this has changed of late.
2  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 29, 2016, 06:12:57 pm
The soft left is where this battle will be one

As indeed has been the case with all leadership elections and deputy leadership elections since the membership was given a vote.
3  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 29, 2016, 11:19:20 am
SAUCE PLS

Second is just anecdotal. Could be wrong.
4  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 29, 2016, 06:55:20 am
Why would there be an influx of new members and why on Earth would they be expected to be anti-Corbyn?

Because there is one and because they seem to be.
5  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 28, 2016, 06:05:50 pm
I assume the consensus is that if Corby makes it on the ballot he will win.

There's actually real uncertainty as to what might happen. Particularly as there's an ongoing influx of new members, most of which are unlikely to be pro him.
6  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership on: June 28, 2016, 06:03:55 pm
That's really interesting; so the real minority weakness problem for Remain came through turnout as much as anything else. Less votes than cast at the GE in some inner eastern wards. Indications of stronger OUT votes from Indians than Pakistanis.
7  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Potential UK General Election Late 2016 / Early 2017 on: June 28, 2016, 01:01:28 pm
So is there no fixed procedure to call for a leadership election unless the incumbent leader resigns?

There can be a challenge. Which is going to happen.
8  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 on: June 28, 2016, 12:57:58 pm
An awful lot of things are not yet clear. Other than that the situation is a complete and utter mess.
9  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 01:21:28 pm
Bizarre: apparently Angela Eagle requested a one-to-one meeting with Corbyn and only resigned when she had not had a response 24hrs later. What on earth is going on?
10  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 12:22:15 pm
Only had a junior role as a Shadow Transport Minister, but Richard Burden (B'ham Northfield) is indicative: he's very left wing. And now he's gone too.
11  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 12:20:51 pm
This is what everybody is saying right now, but what I just can't understand. How could anyone supporting a losing side of a referendum immediately be in a good position to become the next Prime Minister?

You ever met part of the Blue Rinse Brigade? These people basically run off bile. And sherry.
12  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Jeremy Corbyn be dumped as leader of the Labour Party? on: June 27, 2016, 07:33:09 am
Oh and his position now is clearly untenable. Possibly the plot could have been contained but this now looks at last half organic and has genuine momentum (hah). He should not have sacked Benn at 1am what the fyck was he thinking...
13  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Jeremy Corbyn be dumped as leader of the Labour Party? on: June 27, 2016, 07:29:58 am
Regarding the referendum... which Labour MP was on the telly the most during the campaign? The answer is Gisela Stuart (the Bavarian born Sudeten German MP Birmingham Edgbaston; Neville Chamberlain's seat long ago lmao) who was one of the leaders of the Leave campaign. Labour IN campaigners were barely visible on the airwaves.
14  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Should Jeremy Corbyn be dumped as leader of the Labour Party? on: June 27, 2016, 07:27:16 am
Labour seems to have the option between a hard left winger, who comes across as mostly interested in marginal foreign policy and identity politics issues; and the centrist-cosmopolitan wing, who don't seem to be any more interested in representing the working class.

That's not really accurate; much of the soft Left and traditional Right (i.e. Tom Watson) are very much working class representation first types. But the media is terrible at reporting on THIGMOO and so doesn't understand the factions or who is in which.
15  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 07:23:55 am
Boris now says the vote to leave was "not entirely overwhelming" and Gove wants the exit talks to be informal.

They're  beginning to realise what exactly they've done and they're terrified.

Plan Boris was obviously for a narrow Remain vote and for him to then ride the coattails of anger amongst Tory members in the Shires to no. 10.

Plan UKIP was the same.

Hey everyone we won! Oh fyck...
16  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership on: June 27, 2016, 07:13:56 am
If it opts for an EEA agreement, why should Britain be excluded from having to sign up to Schengen? It'll effectively walk away from an 'immigration' based referendum having less control over it.

You would not want to be one of the Tory Leavers if that happens would you? Hey everyone, another bone fide case of politicians telling literal lies to the electorate and so soon after the LibDem uni fees debacle!
17  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 07:07:51 am
Boris now says the vote to leave was "not entirely overwhelming" and Gove wants the exit talks to be informal.

They're  beginning to realise what exactly they've done and they're terrified.

Plan Boris was obviously for a narrow Remain vote and for him to then ride the coattails of anger amongst Tory members in the Shires to no. 10.
18  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 07:05:37 am
By the way, if Corbyn survives today then we might end up seeing a long-held wish of mine - the MP for Bolsover on the front bench. Tbh there won't be many other choices......

*Nia Griffith* has gone ffs I mean... Jesus. She's old school Welsh Labour Left.
19  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 27, 2016, 04:11:41 am
It pretty clearly has caused chaos within the Tories. Just that right now its off stage chaos. Labour were in chaos before; things have just been brought to a head.
20  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 26, 2016, 07:10:34 pm
I cannot claim to see into people's souls. But everyone knows that Owen Smith and Lisa Nandy do not want for ambition. Neither do the Eagle sisters. Or presumably Ashworth. Burnham and Berger are both running for those silly new Metro Mayor posts. O/c this assumes no further quittings.
21  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 26, 2016, 06:37:26 pm
The key thing to note is the list of people who have not resigned. Not just Burnham; there are some obviously ambitious people who have stayed put today.
22  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 26, 2016, 02:29:33 pm
I feel Watson orchestrated this somehow (and good for him), tomorrow will be Corbyn's judgement day.

Definitely organised by someone, but from the way it's happened through the day doubt it was planned for right now. And definitely wasn't if Watson was involved given that he was out of town at the time. Corbyn firing Benn at like 1am seems to have kicked everything off.
23  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Scottish independence referendum 2017? on: June 26, 2016, 02:25:14 pm
Scottish independence poll:
Yes: 52% (+5)
No: 48% (-5)
(via Panelbase / 24 - 25 Jun)
Chgs. from 28 Apr.

Surprisingly tight under the circs.
24  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: The Pigfvcker Memorial Suppository for UK News: A Departure from EUtopia on: June 26, 2016, 11:57:50 am
Watson returns from Glastonbury and issues the following statement:

Quote
I was deeply disappointed to see Hilary Benn sacked in the early hours of this morning and equally saddened that so many talented, able and hard-working colleagues felt they had to leave the shadow cabinet.

My single focus is to hold the Labour party together in very turbulent times. The nation needs an effective opposition, particularly as the current leadership of the country is so lamentable.

It's very clear to me that we are heading for an early general election and the Labour party must be ready to form a Government. There’s much work to do. I will be meeting Jeremy Corbyn tomorrow morning to discuss the way forward.
25  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership on: June 26, 2016, 11:03:58 am
The leave vote wasn't just about immigration even if that was a big factor for some. In South Wales there are a lot of older people who have always regarded the EU as part of a capitalist conspiracy (the area saw the lowest by far pro EEC vote in England-and-Wales back in 1975). And the face of the In campaign was David Cameron; for a lot of voters that will have been invitation enough to vote against.

But note that many non-EU migrants (perhaps most? After all I suspect that there was an age split in terms of minorities just as much as white people...) voted Out. I suspect the suggestion that a post-Brexit EU might relax rules on immigration from the old Empire (lol) may have been a factor.
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