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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: If you were a Muslim woman, would you wear a hijab? on: Today at 07:35:07 am
Yep, probably as a political statement much like what Seyla Benhabib discusses in her writing on laïcité/French secularism.
2  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Pokemon Go is starting to look like a flop on: August 30, 2016, 01:56:38 pm
I guess I picked a bad time to start playing. Tongue But I almost caught a Gengar!
3  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Windjammer on: August 30, 2016, 01:46:18 pm
Anywho, Windy is a good guy but I've learned recently that if you don't treat him with kid gloves, he'll become very, very hostile and vindictive. Definitely needs some thicker skin.

This is basically the Cliff Notes version for those interested (coupled with a troubling lack of self-awareness). It isn't a grudge. I just don't like him... and I know I wouldn't really get anything out of rehashing all the details.

But to be fair, most people don't go through and prepare a response to every post in their "Opinion of" thread. So that's gotta speak to something.
4  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A General Letter in Agreement with JCL on: August 30, 2016, 01:21:49 pm
Yes, it is a threat. Until every child can grow up assured that it would not be a disappointment or an embarrassment to be gay, bigotry must be shot down at every opportunity.

I imagine if you had grown up in this ideal world, shua, your personal dilemmas and discomforts would not be there to propel you to defend these people. It genuinely saddens me to know what society is capable of.
5  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: JCL 3.0 on: August 30, 2016, 12:31:51 pm
Yeah, let's just be honest. JCL is easily the least intelligent person I have ever interacted with, and I've interacted with a lot of dummies both on- and off-line. He's completely incapable of having a thought on his own, all he can do is repeating the same fringe talking points. He's unable to open his tiny mind to anything other than such broken records.

Sorry JCL, but in your years on this forum and in Atlasia you haven't contributed a single coherent sentence.




Dense are we kal. I do have thoughts of my own.

@cathcon yes I was meaning natural order.

Hagrid, I'm sorry you took what I said totally wrong. I'm asking for credible scientific research that being gay is within the natural order. Sadly, it doesn't exist. Seek rights as an individual not as part of a group. I have won you no allies.

I'll do you one better. I am a human being, born of a vagina on the natural world. It turns out I am gay. Nothing outside of the confines of this natural world intervened, I can assure you, because literally everything we know has resulted from the "natural order"—nothing can happen that is not a part of it. We're a society and civilization of intelligent animals.

I am natural because I am here.

So you'll just have to deal with it. You can be an ass or a friend. Sadly you have chosen your path.
6  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A General Letter in Agreement with JCL on: August 30, 2016, 12:22:31 pm
Also, I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not interested in being drawn closer to the Capital-G God who, in the majority, is surrounded by small-minded bigots who use faith to legitimize ignorance. I'm gonna keep "Him" out if it on my end, because my beliefs are my beliefs.

So for your sake, please don't devote too much concern to drawing me closer to God. Tongue Because you'll be expending a lot of energy, lol. My spiritual life is just fine the way it is. I'm not sick or wanting when it comes to the Holy Spirit.
7  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of FairBol (Rule-friendly version) on: August 30, 2016, 12:10:56 pm
Should probably keep his head down a little. Eager beaver syndrome doesn't always play well, and I think he needs to give himself a breather so the cringe-worthiness subsides.
8  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Windjammer on: August 30, 2016, 12:08:06 pm
Same as always. I do not forget so easily.
Though I of course wish him happiness in all he does.

What did he do?

Honestly, I'd rather not relitigate it, but he was a human disaster for a good chunk of time in Atlasia. Probably it's petty of me to hold onto something like that, but I can't not. And the collective amnesia on it just astounds me because it really was one of the worst meltdowns I've seen. He brought a lot of stress to a lot of people, and I'm not convinced he took the time he needed to learn to let go.

And to put things in perspective, I'll admit that I still haven't learned to let go myself (see this post and the JCL thread), which is why I know I can't go back.
9  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Windjammer on: August 30, 2016, 11:57:15 am
Same as always. I do not forget so easily.
Though I of course wish him happiness in all he does.
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: NBC/SurveyMonkey National: Clinton +6 in Head to Head, +4 in 4-Way on: August 30, 2016, 09:54:25 am
2012+NC+NE-2.

At this point, this does look pretty much stable. Though NE2 is really elastic.

But if what we're at now is kind of like the baseline of the race,  it means that Hillary definitely has potential to grow whenever Trump makes a gaffe or does something stupid. So +10 still isn't out of the question. In fact, I'm still confident we could add a few points to this number thanks to her organizational advantage. So I'd say +12 still isn't completely unrealistic either if she has a hugely successful debate performance and more goes wrong for Trump.
11  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: NFL QB Colin Kaepernick Won't Stand for National Anthem on: August 29, 2016, 11:27:30 am
Go for it. No one is obliged to subscribe to nationalism. The country has done enough sh-tty things to black people that I don't know if I would either.
12  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Torie on: August 29, 2016, 11:19:54 am
playaa
13  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of....Me on: August 29, 2016, 11:17:39 am
Yikes.
14  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: The Seriously? Theatre of Absurdity, Ignorance, and Bad Posts V on: August 29, 2016, 11:16:47 am
jesus christ

Actually, what you call a trait is a lifestyle choice. One which counters the national order of who you were made to be as a male. The science that says being gay is natural in some is highly questionable at best.

But I have decided to be JCL's enemy, you see. Roll Eyes We have other common ground—I should just let this go.



*pukes*
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls / Re: Pennsylvania - Emerson Polling: Clinton + 3 on: August 29, 2016, 04:32:19 am
Seems like the preponderance of evidence is indeed pointing to a tightening race...
16  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: CNN’s King: “This Is Nuts” Clinton’s Schedules Won’t Be Released Before Election on: August 29, 2016, 03:28:57 am
Roll Eyes
17  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: JCL 3.0 on: August 29, 2016, 02:24:27 am
Lol, I came in here to throw a bomb, not to pretend I've been following in-game developments. I guess my trolling wasn't clear though, so I'll clarify...

I couldn't care less about JCL's personal life. I couldn't care less about the knitty-gritty specifics of one measly election. I care about the big picture, which is this: JCL is an extremist who people are always making some kind of excuse for in the Federalist Party. He is virtually as unelectable as I would now be, yet he is always coddled publicly and rooted against silently. It is a dilemma that has been ongoing for years, and I am simply amused that the delicate management of the situation continues.

It doesn't require a grandpa speech.

Hagrid, it actually doesn't bother me that you don't care about my outside of Atlas life. What has bothered me is how you could go from a conservative ally to ardent enemy. One thing I've already figured is you had a change of heart and came out. Just because you are lgbt doesn't mean we always have to be enemies. There are common ground ways we can come together. You just refuse to see it.

Lol, I'm not the one who has decided that another person deserves fewer rights thanks to a trait of theirs that they can't control. So I'm not the one who has decided to "be enemies." Reconciliation is possible when you see sense.

As for "coming together..." I'm not actually a politician; I don't have some grand obligation to see past the discrimination and bigotry you veil under the guise of "libertarianism" (lol). Some things are disqualifiers, and delegitimizing me as a human being is one of them. There may be other common ground, but why the f-ck should I care about it when I know you are incapable of seeing me as equal? You are literally asking me to ignore and move past the fact that you are bigoted against gay people. I am not willing to do that. Nor should I be.

Actually, what you call a trait is a lifestyle choice. One which counters the national order of who you were made to be as a male. The science that says being gay is natural in some is highly questionable at best.

Yeah, so f-ck you too, dumbass. For a second I was worried I was being too prickly, but in three sentences you just won me more allies than I could probably ever win on my own. I pity your children for the father they will have.

Ladies and gents, the Federalist Party of Atlasia.
18  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is this a freedom letter - or not? on: August 29, 2016, 02:06:59 am
Except there's not really such a thing as "the real world" in a society that is dominated by artificial, human-made institutions. Implying that there is is basically tantamount to implying that there's a natural order to things, and that the way it is is the just the way it is—the way it must always be. And... that's not true.

The way things are set up, whether in workplaces, hospitals, government, or schools, is premeditated. Decisions are made by people in power to run schools efficiently, automate banking this way or that way, channel resources into a hospital here or there... the world is an intensely manicured place, crafted by those with the most power.

So while it may be true that currently we are unlikely to always come across safe spaces when we need them, that doesn't negate the fact that things should change. And where they can, why shouldn't they? "It's sh-tty everywhere, so it should be sh-tty here too" doesn't quite sit well with me, because you can literally use that mantra as an obstacle to pretty much every kind of positive change you can name (indeed, you can even use it to reverse positive change). This university big-wig instead decided to create a roadblock when he could have been an ally or at the very least said nothing at all. And as I think we've hopefully established, legitimate safe spaces that serve a clear purpose for people who have been victimized don't hurt anyone at all. I mean, I hear you when you basically say that safe spaces prevent people from building a thick skin... But I read that as "safe spaces make it more difficult for people to learn that they should shut up about their problems." Let's face it: A thick skin shouldn't be necessary—that's victim-blaming. The onus for change should be on the assholes who make people feel like sh-t. So yeah—vilifying safe spaces is outrageous.

And I stand by my comment about privilege. I'm not saying you necessarily fit the bill (you can decide for yourself). What I am saying is that just because a person doesn't feel or understand the need for a safe space themself doesn't mean they have the right or requisite wisdom to tell others who do need one that they're wrong or sh-t out of luck. And if a person does do that, then yeah—I'll admit that I don't have much respect for them.

In your opinion, should the entirety of a campus be a "safe place," or just some room somewhere to which one can retreat?  You did not speak to trigger warnings.  What is the zone if any that should apply to them?

I was pondering those questions earlier, actually. Regarding how these safe spaces should manifest, I guess I believe there should be varying degrees of both options. Where I went to undergrad had a few "reading rooms," "lounges," and "nooks" that were dedicated safe spaces for various different communities/allies. I think that's pretty inoffensive, and since they can be barriered off and aren't necessarily meant to be places of rigorous academic discussion anyway, I think it's totally legit to have stricter rules about what can and simply can't be discussed in these zones.

On the other hand, I think it's also absolutely okay to designate a campus at large as a safe space for, say, the LGBT community or victims of assault, so long as everyone understands that the "filter" is obviously going to be much looser. Here, it is reasonable to expect total acceptance and non-discrimination. It may not, however, be reasonable to expect that people should not be allowed to openly discuss the university's sexual assault policy. These discussions can and should happen, with the caveat that they are always done in a respectful way. I suspect the author of the letter in the OP was not meaning to disagree with what I've said in this paragraph, but by painting safe spaces with a broad brush, he's kind of implying as much. That's why his words were so clumsy and offensive.

Anyway, yeah. When these kinds of respectful discussions do take place (like my sexual assault policy example), what's the harm in offering a trigger warning? I think it actually enhances debate because it challenges people to consider how their opinions might affect those who have a different perspective or bring different experiences to the table. Maybe if a person stopped to think about whether a trigger warning was necessary, they'd also treat their own ideas with a bit more scrutiny. It's not about censorship; it's about respect. Trigger warnings are the bridges that help ensure freedom of academic expression and safe spaces aren't completely mutually exclusive. And if you can have both, why the hell wouldn't you want to?
19  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is this a freedom letter - or not? on: August 28, 2016, 02:11:04 pm
Except there's not really such a thing as "the real world" in a society that is dominated by artificial, human-made institutions. Implying that there is is basically tantamount to implying that there's a natural order to things, and that the way it is is the just the way it is—the way it must always be. And... that's not true.

The way things are set up, whether in workplaces, hospitals, government, or schools, is premeditated. Decisions are made by people in power to run schools efficiently, automate banking this way or that way, channel resources into a hospital here or there... the world is an intensely manicured place, crafted by those with the most power.

So while it may be true that currently we are unlikely to always come across safe spaces when we need them, that doesn't negate the fact that things should change. And where they can, why shouldn't they? "It's sh-tty everywhere, so it should be sh-tty here too" doesn't quite sit well with me, because you can literally use that mantra as an obstacle to pretty much every kind of positive change you can name (indeed, you can even use it to reverse positive change). This university big-wig instead decided to create a roadblock when he could have been an ally or at the very least said nothing at all. And as I think we've hopefully established, legitimate safe spaces that serve a clear purpose for people who have been victimized don't hurt anyone at all. I mean, I hear you when you basically say that safe spaces prevent people from building a thick skin... But I read that as "safe spaces make it more difficult for people to learn that they should shut up about their problems." Let's face it: A thick skin shouldn't be necessary—that's victim-blaming. The onus for change should be on the assholes who make people feel like sh-t. So yeah—vilifying safe spaces is outrageous.

And I stand by my comment about privilege. I'm not saying you necessarily fit the bill (you can decide for yourself). What I am saying is that just because a person doesn't feel or understand the need for a safe space themself doesn't mean they have the right or requisite wisdom to tell others who do need one that they're wrong or sh-t out of luck. And if a person does do that, then yeah—I'll admit that I don't have much respect for them.
20  About this Site / The Atlas / Re: Let's talk about the ignore button... on: August 28, 2016, 01:54:09 pm
Good. You need to stop ignoring so many people.

I am not intellectually bettered by being exposed to the likes of ProgressiveCanadian, Seriously?, and Misoir. Not in any way, shape or form.

That's what happened to me (I had maxed out). When I went into my profile and cleared a bunch manually from the ignore list (most of them being people I had ignored years ago that don't post anymore), then I was able to ignore posters again.

Tried the other day and it didn't work. Maybe I need to get rid of more. I'll try when I'm at home off my phone. Sigh.

21  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Opinion of Misoir on: August 28, 2016, 12:46:00 pm
Awful.
22  About this Site / The Atlas / Let's talk about the ignore button... on: August 28, 2016, 12:44:02 pm
Mine has stopped working. It's possible I've maxed out the number of people I can have on ignore, but when I unignore someone and try to ignore someone new, the button still doesn't work.
23  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Paul Ryan and Hillary Clinton team up to support Anti-Poverty Plan on: August 28, 2016, 12:41:32 pm
Look at that. Paul Ryan already prepared to sell out the country to crooked Hillary. Good thing she won't be elected president. We can't afford another stupid, wasteful anti-poverty program because the last 50 years of these failed programs have really worked out so well. Idiots.

It is frankly embarrassing that your sentiment is shared by a sizeable group of others.

Do you dispute the reality of cyclical/generational poverty? Do you think all of your success comes from your inherent merits? Ick. Roll Eyes

Today poverty is a result of laziness and bad personal decisions. All this free trade and mass immigration doesn't help either. They throw the doors open to anyone who wants to come and take American jobs. Even illegal aliens. Then they send our jobs overseas to all these third world countries to get rich. Once we build that wall, kick out the illegals and stop sending all our jobs to Vietnam and China then there wouldn't be anymore excuses for being poor. If you're poor it's because you want to be. Get off your butt and work 2 or 3 jobs if you have to. Quit making excuses and waiting around with your hand out.

Guys, I can't. Where does this stupid come from? My head hurts and my heart aches. Sad
24  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is this a freedom letter - or not? on: August 28, 2016, 12:35:01 pm
Horrible letter. The right wing obsession with safe spaces is getting frustrating.
lol

Uh...? Do you really think people are happy that they sometimes feel like they need a safe space? Do you really think people on the left like them? It would be fantastic if they weren't needed at all, but it's not for a person with privilege to decide for people without it that these spaces are obsolete. The only people who are offended by safe spaces are people who are too fragile to own up to the fact that society collectively makes them necessary. What is really so threatening about the [legitimate] safe space?
25  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is this a freedom letter - or not? on: August 28, 2016, 12:30:30 pm
Completely missed the point of trigger warnings and safe spaces, HL.

What do you view the point of these strictures that was missed?
Trigger warnings for example are not meant to keep people from "being offended"  but to warn people who may be forced to relive painful memories. For example a discussion of rape may cause a victim of sexual assault to have flashbacks or things of the sort. Safe spaces are not about anyone blocking out other opinions, but to allow people who have suffered trauma or abuse(such as the LGBT community) to meet others who have had similar experiences and not be criticized for being gay or trans or in a slightly more extreme example as victims of rape not having assholes claim that they are lying.

I truly hope that that made sense

This hits the nail on the head.

To answer to OP, the letter is obviously disgusting. In fact, I would reconsider attending any university that could so boastfully send out a letter clearly sh-tting on folks who already face more than enough marginalization every day.

Safe spaces do not exist so that people can cower from intellectual debate. They exist because some "ideas" aren't based in intellectualism at all and are objectively harmful.

You place some sort of premium on human suffering, as though that were the default.

It's lines of thought like this that make me support leaders who are not straight white men just because they are not straight white men. I don't mean to be offensive, but for some, oppression and being made to feel "less than" are constant. That's why safe spaces are needed, and I guess it's pretty clear that some people are incapable of understanding that, simply by virtue of their own rosier experiences. But to speak from one's own place of privilege and assume that safe spaces are simply safe havens from intellectual discourse is pretty ignorant. It's projecting a meaning onto these places that only comes from one perspective... and that perspective seems to be fear of owning up to the fact that people with privilege are sometimes complicit in making safe spaces necessary in the first place.

Yes, it does happen that safe spaces are abused by those who want an echo chamber. But again, it is not the primary purpose of them, and this letter just completely spits on the people who need these places most. It's a pretty elitist and wilfully ignorant way of looking at the safe space.
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