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101  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: H. A. Goodman: Bernie to run again in 2020 on: November 13, 2016, 02:37:13 am
79 year youngs don't win elections. And Bernie couldn't even defeat a very flawed candidate.

To be fair, he could never overcome the delegate lead she got out of the south, because blacks voted as a block for Hillary and there was nothing he could do to win them over. Without a Clinton to run against he could do well with the black community.

Well, to be equally as fair, he could have actually spent some time in his long and supposedly illustrious career reaching out to black communities and taking on their issues in his work. I mean, you're kind of discounting one of Hillary's biggest strengths. She's a listener. Sometimes she listens too much and ends up getting a muddied message (this happened in the general election, as insecure whites felt "oppressed" because she had the audacity to address other concerns), but the black community felt comfortable with her. Bernie could have had that if he had actually cared.

Your perfect candidate has flaws too. Roll Eyes
102  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: 2020 Democratic Primary: Wide Open(NON-REPUBLICAN VOTERS ONLY) on: November 12, 2016, 10:38:28 pm
I'm not sure. A woman can't win yet, though.

A woman literally just won the popular vote.

Yes, but the electoral college gives hicks and rubes an outsized influence, and these hicks and rubes aren't interested in holding a woman to the same low standards it holds men.
103  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: The “Who is running in 2020?” tea leaves thread on: November 12, 2016, 09:59:20 pm
Didn't Jon Tester vote against the auto bailout? There's a winning Michigan candidate! Roll Eyes
104  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Is Democratic Party is doomed? At least in a short term perspective? on: November 12, 2016, 02:22:28 pm
The election was so, so close. The firewall states that flipped all did so by, like, a percent. The Democratic Party could have a shot at winning after four years of Trump possibly without even changing anything—not even the ticket. I'm not saying it would be smart, but we need to calm down and realize that this election was close. Democrats are viable.
105  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: Chelsea Clinton groomed for Congress run in NY17 on: November 12, 2016, 01:49:53 am
You people are assholes. It's one seat in Congress, and if she wants to make a difference and thinks she has the ability to, she should.
106  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: If she doesn't run, and endorses in the primaries, who does Hillary endorse? on: November 12, 2016, 01:14:01 am
She won't endorse anyone. They're all weaklings. By summer 2019 it will be abundantly clear that the bench is weak and there will be people begging her to enter the race ala Romney 2016. The question is whether she'll take the call.

If that happens, the Democrats have already lost.

I'm inclined to agree. The best we can must is Harris, Booker, Warren, and Sanders? Yikes.
107  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: If she doesn't run, and endorses in the primaries, who does Hillary endorse? on: November 12, 2016, 12:22:13 am
She won't endorse anyone. They're all weaklings. By summer 2019 it will be abundantly clear that the bench is weak and there will be people begging her to enter the race ala Romney 2016. The question is whether she'll take the call.
108  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: To Sanders voters: you were right, I was wrong on: November 11, 2016, 09:51:13 pm
It's not just about winning elections you know, and even if it was, we cannot say conclusively that a bashit crazy longtime socialist politician with zero accomplishments would have done better. Lots of us think he would have been a worse president than Clinton either way. I have no regrets, although I do regret that so many of you selfish dopes refused to vote but have the audacity to pour out onto the streets and protest. Roll Eyes

Are you serious?

Yes. I think Bernie would have been a horrific president and I would have happily voted for Bloomberg when he inevitably would have chosen to run in the unprecedentedly weak general election field. Absolutely.
109  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Rank the top 5 most likely people to be 2020 Dem. presidential nominee on: November 11, 2016, 09:35:53 pm
It won't matter. There's no one who has the appropriate gravitas to win.

You know who just won the Presidential election, right?!?  Probably the person with the least amount of gravitas to ever run for President as a major party candidate in American history.

I'm starting to think you are a really clever parody of a Clinton supporter.

I'm starting to think you're a douchebag, so let's leave these kinds of comments at the door.

Donald Trump projected strength to enough voters to win. I appreciate your optimism, but if you think Kamala Harris has the kind of image that would appeal to these people, you're living in a fantasyland.
110  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: To Sanders voters: you were right, I was wrong on: November 11, 2016, 08:47:21 pm
It's not just about winning elections you know, and even if it was, we cannot say conclusively that a bashit crazy longtime socialist politician with zero accomplishments would have done better. Lots of us think he would have been a worse president than Clinton either way. I have no regrets, although I do regret that so many of you selfish dopes refused to vote but have the audacity to pour out onto the streets and protest. Roll Eyes
111  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Clinton campaign: We lost because of the Comey letter on: November 11, 2016, 08:38:36 pm
However, her victory would've been utterly marred because of the other unfavorables. At best, she'd would've ended up like Bush Sr and just a had mediocre presidency in frustrating gridlock...only to be taken out in 2020, a loss far costlier  than this.

At worst, she'd end up like Richard Nixon [instead she's more like Richard Nixon was to Democrats before Watergate] and actually do something awful out of sheer paranoia.

I don't know what's worse: losing now or losing later.

Even if Comey didn't sent the letter and even if she barely won, Republicans would likely run a half-sane opponent and beat her in 2020.

Probably, but at least she would have gotten a reasonable Supreme Court Justice nominated and possibly taken action to fix (and thereby protect) Obamacare.
112  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Rank the top 5 most likely people to be 2020 Dem. presidential nominee on: November 11, 2016, 05:45:50 pm
It won't matter. There's no one who has the appropriate gravitas to win.
113  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Is the Democratic establishment capable of reform? on: November 11, 2016, 09:40:16 am
If the Democratic party leadership is smart/not captured by bad incentives, it will move to the center on social issues and move to the left on economic issues...

but it is both dumb and captured by a system of bad incentives, so it will continue it's moronic strategy of identity politics and economic triangulation that will at best win a narrow Presidential election victory but not Congress and not the state houses.

Ugh. If this happens I'll become an Independent again. I want a diverse cosmopolitan party, lol.
114  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Sanders would have won on: November 11, 2016, 08:08:39 am
The "but Hillary does so much better with minorities!" argument would've been a good one had she not performed at John Kerry levels with those groups against Trump in the end, anyway.

Yes, but we can't know how Bernie would have done. The only measure we have is how he did in the primaries. With Bernie, the bottom really could have fallen out on minority turnout.
115  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / U.S. Presidential Election Results / Re: Describe an Obama 2008, Obama 2012, Trump 2016 voter on: November 11, 2016, 07:57:49 am
The opposite of me, lol.

I wonder what it feels like to have one's preferred candidate win a presidential election... Tongue
116  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: At what point in the day do you think Hillary's team knew things were rough? on: November 11, 2016, 07:39:01 am
So you think they didn't realize until the ballots actually started to be counted?

I would've thought there'd be signs earlier.
117  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should this be the Democratic party's policy in handling the Trump presidency? on: November 11, 2016, 07:13:11 am
No compromise, or we turn Trump into a hugely popular Bill Clinton.
118  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Politico: DNC Chairmanship up for grabs on: November 11, 2016, 07:09:28 am
Granholm. That lady should be president, but the rules suck.
119  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What's the future of the Democratic Party? on: November 11, 2016, 06:59:36 am
1 and 3. 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive, and someone needs to be doing 1 because these people need a voice.
120  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should the Democratic Party go far left, or centrist? on: November 11, 2016, 06:38:11 am
They need someone who reeks of Blue Collar, calloused-hands charm. Someone whose way of speaking sounds Republican but whose actual policy positions are populist and left-wing. This way, the stupid working-class rubes will *feel* like they're being catered to (it's all they really need), and the left-wing base will know their candidate has their back because the content he's running on is appropriately left-wing. Bernie Sanders wasn't even the best fit for what they need. An exceptionally liberal Joe Manchin is what they need, but the bench is so hollow that I don't know if they'll be able to find that person.

A scandal-free and slightly younger John Kitzhaber...
121  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2020 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Can a non-politician replicate Trump's success in the Democratic Primary? on: November 11, 2016, 06:00:17 am
Hm. Tom Hanks could maybe do well in the Rust Belt.
122  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / At what point in the day do you think Hillary's team knew things were rough? on: November 11, 2016, 05:55:19 am
Just curious, since presumably their intense data operation would have been spitting out unfavourable metrics in real time.
123  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: When did you realize that it was almost certain that Trump would win? on: November 11, 2016, 05:53:35 am
Started worrying at about 9:00 pm EST according to my text message history. Florida was way closer than expected and Virginia, which many had thought would go to Hillary by a margin of something like +8, was not called early.

Even so, all this meant to me was that we were looking at a race like 2012 or closer. I don't know when I thought she'd lose, precisely. I just knew that there was way too much yellow on the CNN map. Ohio turning into a blow-out was maybe the first sign that things were not going well in the Rust Belt.
124  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Beyonce, Lady Ga Ga, Bon Jovi, all mission fail on: November 11, 2016, 05:45:18 am
"Analysis."

Roll Eyes

The new Atlas Forum.
125  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Was Hillary too distraught initially to concede? on: November 11, 2016, 03:13:13 am
Now, to stay on the actual topic...

This might have been it, but I also think the venue would have been hugely inappropriate for the kind of speech Hillary needed to give. They were on the cusp of making history, and the whole place was steeped in "glass ceiling" overtones. I think the special circumstances of what a Hillary win would have meant, coupled with the venue's somewhat special set-up, was not right. The speech needed to strike too many nuanced tones.
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