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76  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: July 01, 2015, 01:21:04 am
Did I advocate anywhere for burning bridges? In that situation, I would not run up to my parents and wave in their face that they're either stupid or bigots (even though I still maintain it would be true). I'm having this conversation here because we can discuss blunt truths without it significantly impacting the daily realities of our lives. Tact is certainly important when power is in play. Here, however, we're having a debate on an equal playing field.

As for their one position rendering moot the good work they do for individual gay people... well, I'm going to have to live with your disrespect. Intentional hate is worse than unintentional hate, sure. But most of the issues that members of the LGBT community face today are a result of the anti-gay culture that has festered in the world for far too long. That is what we need to combat. And arbiters of this culture include people who fight against equal rights for LGBTers. I can't respect theirs as an acceptable position and I can't ignore the consequences of their belief on this particular issue. It's like soft power versus hard power. I'm fortunate that the sense of "wrong" and "disgust" that I once associated with being gay did not come from the hard power of outwardly hateful individuals. But there was still self-loathing—damaging self-loathing—because I knew the stigma and could see those who were fighting to keep it in tact.

And anyway, you say I believe "they're all bigots who are to blame for everything [...] and deserve whatever they get." Uh, what are they going to "get"? The horror of having to treat gay people with dignity? Oh, woe is life for them. Having to actually associate with these sinners? Ick! Having to live with the fact that gays and lesbians can't be denied service for an aspect of their identity that is beyond their control? What has this world come to!

So yeah, I suppose they do deserve whatever they "get."
77  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: July 01, 2015, 12:45:57 am
I said the consequence of their actions is to spread hate. I did not say they themselves are hateful. I said it doesn't matter if the individuals are hateful or not. A few instances of anti-SSMers being nice does not undue the depth of damage they've done in spreading the culture they spread.

If a gay kid hears their parents are against gay rights, the message that it's somehow less acceptable to be gay still comes through loud and clear... with or without hate.

So, again, it doesn't matter. You're missing my point in your obsession to validate those who would see us be lesser members of society... and for the life of me, I can't understand why. If a religion says one thing against all the better judgement of decades' worth of experience in real life, you'd think the intuitive thing would be to realize that affording everyone equal rights is the way to go. Sadly, some people can't see it that way. They should. Religious freedom be damned. Because it really is that simple. "Religious freedom" is not an excuse to treat people who are different in a such a way as to cause them negative outcomes.
78  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: July 01, 2015, 12:21:44 am
Yes, calling him that does weaken my point. It doesn't matter what a person is. If they are against equal rights then they are part of the problem.
79  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: June 30, 2015, 10:41:35 pm
Very interesting to listen to a straight person rail against a member of the queer community for "not listening to the arguments" of people who are against same-sex marriage.

Um, we're the ones who are on the receiving end of this crap all the time. Roll Eyes Whatever backwards justification a person can come up with to legitimize their opposition to marriage equality really doesn't mean anything. With respect, same-sex marriage is about people who have same-sex attraction, and only people who have same-sex attraction. So we're the ones who get to be the barometers for whether hate is an active part of the equation. While it may be true that some anti-SSMers genuinely believe they can be against SSM without hating gay people (and perhaps some actually don't hate gay people), what they believe in this situation is moot. Because their words and actions impact the LGBT community whether there's intentional hate or not. And those viewpoints are oppressive, unjust, spread misconceptions, fuel distrust, encourage harassment, beat gay people into submission, nurture self-hate and depression, and, in general, make life worse for people who are not straight. So, for the last time, whether a person "intends" to hate means piss-all. It's a consolation prize. Because their actions and attitudes are hateful either way.

So no, I will not accommodate this garbage just because a few bigoted imbeciles can't get over themselves and accept positive change that has nothing to do with them. If you oppose equal marriage, you are either a bigot or stupid. Prove me wrong.
80  Forum Community / Off-topic Board / Re: Worst Pixar movie on: June 30, 2015, 08:10:11 pm
Cars 2, but Brave, Cars 1, and A Bug's Life are quite weak too. Just very transparent and emotionally fraudulent.
81  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How has Atlas Forum destroyed your life? on: June 30, 2015, 08:01:27 pm
Actually, RFayette's post reminded me of something very interesting: This forum has taught me how to respectfully disagree and discuss things without being taken over by emotions. I didn't realize how true this was until I had my first couple fights with my boyfriend. When I disagree with someone, I try to understand their points, respect the fact that they hold these beliefs for good reasons and are not evil people, and work to meet in the middle (or find common ground in our goals or purpose). Admittedly I've lost patience with this tactic on some hot-button issues like LGBT rights (it's not worth being patient with a bigot), but what I outlined above generally characterizes the approach of most people on this forum.

After my first fight with my boyfriend, however, I realized the ground rules were very different. It was an argument about offering students extensions on academic assignments. And we disagreed. He could not accept the fact that there was some truth to be told in both of our positions. It became not about the merits of our points, but about my right to hold the view I held. Basically, I was wrong and lacked decent moral character because our views diverged. I was pissed, of course, because I respected the difference of opinion and didn't judge him harshly for having a different perspective. But thinking about it, I probably would have been just like him had I not had the experience of being on this forum.

And mark my words, the experience is very different for users with red avatars and blue avatars. I don't want to validate our resident troll's hyperbole, but conservatives are a minority here. When I started off with my R-ON avatar, I learned very quickly that I needed to find different ways to engage and compromise if I was going to be respected. That difficult balancing act of respecting the fact that my beliefs were not consensus, constantly rechecking to see if my positions held water, and being open to seeing things differently, did make me a better person. Some people haven't had that experience, and it's a shame.

As for my boyfriend and I, now that we've had a few more fights and he understands how I do things, I think he's sort of started to accept the way I approach conflict and adopted that style for himself, too. He'd never admit it though, but that's okay. Tongue Thankfully, our disagreements now never end in disbelief or disgust at the fact that the other person could possibly believe x or y... we understand that we're both just making different considerations.
82  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Will Obama's Approval rating Exceed 50% in a Gallup Tracking Poll Before July 31 on: June 30, 2015, 11:30:23 am
Well that was fast.
83  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update for Everyone III - The Whinge Binge on: June 28, 2015, 09:22:59 pm
I don't think you should worry about it. I ripped my aunt a new one on Facebook for railing against marriage equality.
84  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 19 reactions that will bring a tear to your eye on: June 28, 2015, 05:55:26 pm
Yes, because your opinion is asinine and destructive. But we wouldn't question your right to make a thread.
85  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Modern Health Education Act on: June 28, 2015, 02:47:18 pm
What about high school kids?

Obviously I agree with you on the topic of the odd treat, but I'm not sure how to draw the line.
86  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Election / Re: Will some GOP stop voting because of confederate flag, gay marriage, immigration on: June 28, 2015, 11:49:35 am
The GOP candidate could be an unabashed moderate and still pull support from conservatives.

Look at Romney's first debate performance against Obama. Although he did a lot of maneuvering, dodged questions, and lied, he came out of that debate looking like a reasonable guy. A moderate guy. Someone Independents and even disaffected liberals could get behind. He obviously blew it later on in the campaign, but after that first debate, almost every GOPer you could imagine was touting Romney as an electable general election candidate. They were so happy and so vindicated.

And it wasn't the "severely conservative" Romney from the primaries.

So, ironically, I think the troll's comment about voters appreciating when a candidate is 100% honest is also accurate in the context of a moderate candidate. If that candidate embraces genuine moderate beliefs and is in their comfort zone doing so, then it's fine. Voters want candidates for their party who can win. Had Romney been the Romney from the first debate the whole time, he would've been in a much stronger position.

Which is way I think Jeb's strategy is actually a good one. The field is so split anyway, why not actually look like a reasonable general election winner from the beginning?
87  General Discussion / History / Re: Surreal moments in political history on: June 28, 2015, 11:32:24 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P183mGLvkI

(And related incidents.)
88  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Modern Health Education Act on: June 28, 2015, 08:04:58 am
You could amend it to say "while school is in session".  Also, any food made at the school or central facility specifically for the school would be exempt.  Everyone needs a soft m&m cookie now and then.

Yes, those cookies are to die for, especially when they're greasy enough to melt through the napkin... <3


BUT, I have to say, that's sort of why I put this clause in the bill. Isn't it a good idea to stop selling this stuff on the premises? If kids want it they can go off-property.
89  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How has Atlas Forum destroyed your life? on: June 28, 2015, 07:17:07 am
I've been looser in keeping the forum separate from my "real life" than is probably advisable.

EDIT: Okay, so I'll post this anyway, after cutting it down. I've also come to think of the Atlas as a place that I can reliably go to if I ever want to feel like I am stupid. The thing stopping me from seriously questioning how much I really know is probably the fact that I've held my own academically, tangible proof.

Maybe you are really just all smarter than the people I go to school with-- certainly there are many people here, not that much older than I am, whose knowledge, in its breadth and depth, seems to far outstrip that of almost anyone I know-- Xahar, Foucaulf, Al, Gully, the Mikado, Averroes, and Maddy come to mind, to name just a few--not to mention my own. Perhaps it is because I am far more careful as to what political views I choose to share in public than I am here- this is the internet, after all. Then again, if I were to apply such a level of self-censorship on the Atlas, I'd probably be demonised as a "moderate hero" all the same.

So TL;DR, the Atlas has destroyed my life by making me feel stupider than I would otherwise. Also if you think that I actually am stupid feel free to say so because if true I'm probably an insufferable twat in “real life” and don't even know it


I hate to break it to you, but being successful in academia has nothing to do with how intelligent a person is. There are obviously some transferable skills between the Atlas and writing a strong paper or participating positively in seminar, and this place has certainly helped me bolster those skills, but being intelligent here simply does not equal getting good grades.

Attendance marks aside, I've always done extremely well academically. I'm proud of it; I know I can write good papers of limited scope. But I am not in the upper percentile of posters here, and likely never will be. The people you mentioned not only have the skills to perform well in school (good argumentation, strong writing, blah, blah, blah, etc.), but they also have the dedication and interest that a person like me does not have. They read. And I simply get no joy out of reading something like Capital in my spare time. I lose the enrichment that people like TNF gain by diving into a diverse library of scholarship, but... I'm okay being a little simple too.

But you, Mr. Simfan, are not an impostor like me. You're up there with the names you mentioned precisely because you do read and offer a wealth on knowledge on different subjects. Don't sell yourself short. Smiley
90  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: June 27, 2015, 01:54:45 pm
All the streets in San Francisco are adorned with the flag. 

Essentially, You're going to Pride, whether you like it or not.

So chin up and try to make the best of it. Maybe you'll get laid. Smiley
91  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Prior to the ruling, only a handful of Congressional Republicans were in favor on: June 27, 2015, 09:37:58 am
Someone forgot to log into his t-host account...
92  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Breaking: Supreme Court rules SSM a legal right on: June 27, 2015, 01:08:19 am
So, Badger, in response to inquiry  on homosexuality and the Bible and my thoughts vs SSM:

On homosexuality in and of itself, here are my thoughts and how I see the Bible.
I preface this with the fact that I could use more bible study.

Based on my own experience and obviously so many others, I do believe sexual orientation is not a conscious choice.  I don't know if it's something you're born with, I don't know if it's something learned, but I do remember that from childhood onward, I definitely felt different from others. That's how I Think we can logically conclude, that it is LIKELY a biological issue.

Having prefaced this with that, if homosexuality were itself a sin, because of free will, there would have to be some kind of choice involved.  Coveting is chosen, lying is chosen.  But we know sexuality is not. 
That is why although I think it's ambiguous based on wording/translations in the NT (1 Corinth 6:9), the translation of "homosexuals" has been interpreted by some to be many other things, such as a high priest, effeminate according to some scholars meant a weak person morally.

Furthermore, I do think it's an open question whether gay acts are permissible biblically, but because gay relationships have just as much of an emotional connection as heterosexual relationships, I do not see why God would connect the emotion of love to something that is abomination to God.

As for gay marriage, we can go back to Genesis as to how God defined marriage. Becoming one flesh , fruitful and multiply. I think it's plainfully clear that the institution of  marriage was intended for procreation.


Most of my reasons for opposing gay marriage is that I think there has to be some kind of societal boundary and respecting tradition. 

Constitutionally, I do not think that when the 14th amendment was authored in 1860s, that they were thinking about two men getting hitched.

And I do not like the way gay activists have gone about it.

I hope this helped shed some light




So in a few words, tradition for tradition's sake. Gosh, I can't believe I was once so silly too. Hopefully you'll learn, but you're hanging on much too tightly.
93  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: 19 reactions that will bring a tear to your eye on: June 27, 2015, 01:03:15 am
All opinions are permissible, of course! It's just occasionally advisable that people be introspective and understand when they're being insufferable c-nts. Not that anyone here would fall into that category.

Happy pride! Smiley
94  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Modern Health Education Act on: June 26, 2015, 08:56:42 pm
I say "limits" because I believe certain occasions justify the sale of "sometimes foods." What of bake sales or end-of-year parties?
95  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What will be the next big social issue? on: June 26, 2015, 07:56:30 pm
Re-educating those religious individuals among us who spread bigotry and hate.

So you want forced re-education of all Bible believing Christians? That basically means you want a genocide of Bible Believing Christians. You are seeking revenge and that is a stain on your position.

You see what you want to see, JCL. Hence today's 4-3 ruling in favour of antiquated marriage. Roll Eyes
96  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Modern Health Education Act on: June 26, 2015, 07:52:16 pm
3(5) could be reworked, but I don't think it's problematic. The wiggle room is a good thing that just sort of their to cover our ass. I see how it's a little problematic though, because learning about contraceptives in any sense might not be appropriate for a first grader. I see the room for change.

3(5d) is obviously the non-negotiable part for me... it's frankly what made me want to write up this legislation in the first place. Tongue

Something about appropriate online relationships might be apt too.
97  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: How has Atlas Forum destroyed your life? on: June 26, 2015, 07:31:08 pm
On the contrary, I'd say it has made me a better person in so many ways.
98  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update for Everyone III - The Whinge Binge on: June 26, 2015, 07:10:17 pm
I don't even want to think about how many calories I consumed today...

Yam Tempura Roll – 10 pc.
Chicken Teriyaki Roll – 3 pc.
Yam Tempura – 4 pc.
Broccoli Tempura – 3 pc.
Spring Roll – 2 pc.
BBQ Pork Bun – 1 pc.
Deep-Fried Chicken Dumpling – 3 pc.
Chicken Skewer – 1.5 pc.
Mango Chicken Tempura – 1 pc.
Sesame Ball – 1 pc.
Green Tea Ice Cream – 1 pc.




(... although I actually do. Tongue)
99  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Should churches that don't perform gay marriages lose their tax-exempt status? on: June 26, 2015, 07:00:08 pm
No. In 50 years many of them won't have enough money to survive whether they pay taxes or not. So whatevs.
100  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: What will be the next big social issue? on: June 26, 2015, 06:32:58 pm
Re-educating those religious individuals among us who spread bigotry and hate.
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