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1076  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: Right to Life League Voting Booth on: June 12, 2005, 09:24:00 am

We believe that birth begins at conception

Surely you mean "life" rather than "birth"...
1077  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Facts About Sweden on: June 07, 2005, 12:35:18 pm
Yay another thread that allows the same group of people to have another hackneyed debate about the same f***king thing (which also allows them to claim that country x is inferior).

None of you are even trying to be objective, none of you are even bothering to compare like with like, all of you are cherry picking whatever statistics prop up you're arguements, most of you then proceed to take that out of context and spin it around for all it's worth... etc. etc. etc.

Roll Eyes

Thank you, Al.
1078  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Facts About Sweden on: June 07, 2005, 12:33:44 pm
You need a different party to shake things up sometimes, to keep everything healthy.

Good point, i agree
1079  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: War as a Wealth Redestribution Scheme on: June 07, 2005, 12:16:33 pm
To be fair, he only preaches spending other people's money.
Correct Philip, and thanks for pointing that out. 
In other words, a hypocrite. lol

No, I'm only moderately well off.  In fact the extent of my income is hardly different from yours - I just don't have to work to get it. 

The real source of money for redistribution will naturally be those that have most of it - the extremely rich.

that is the problem with liberalism....it is always 'other people' (ie 'the rich') that should be picking up the tab for the silly programs they advocate.

And the problem with people like you is that, despite that there are clearly potentially rectifiable problems caused by an economy which we all affect and are effected by, you believe it's reasonable to declare that you need not be concerned because you don't care.

Yet you go after a few people  who can at least show some concern, although they don't really practise what they preach... So you're not a hypocrite like they might be, but you're not exactly better are you?

*And please don't use the attitudes of Opebo as an prime example of liberal hypocrisy, you'd have no advantage whatsoever if you weren't talking to a possibly hypocritical liberal. I'm sure you think there are far, far more of them. You probably don't meet a lot of liberal teachers on the internet, or liberal charity workers, (or many people with a job at all) on the internet really do you? Why bother with such easy targets?
1080  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: British Concentration Camps on: June 07, 2005, 12:14:42 pm
erm... sorry

1081  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: British Concentration Camps on: June 07, 2005, 12:13:22 pm
Yep that stuff was horrific. A lot of people over here thought that as well.

And at the time, I doubt that many people would've known what those camps were like at all.
1082  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: most overrated current poltiician on: June 06, 2005, 09:58:58 am
George Osbourne

I got that one Cheesy
1083  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Buckle up in Vermont! Or, your tax dollars at work. on: June 06, 2005, 09:54:39 am
How about just not having any of these signs, or seatbelt laws for that matter?

Because it would slow roads down if there were more crash victims smashing through windscreens...
1084  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Liberal paper publishes favorable article on George Galloway on: June 06, 2005, 09:17:03 am
He's a raving Communist.

And a hypocrital one at that. Spends all his time in a villa in Portugal and has what could be called a taste for the high life.

That's one thing I don't likea bout him, but he's not *quite* a Communist, but he's left-wing enough to be hypocritical. Nothing wrong with having a villa somewhere tho...
1085  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Liberal paper publishes favorable article on George Galloway on: June 06, 2005, 09:10:10 am
man, I'm getting frustrated with DU. There's about 10 200+ flame war threads on Galloway and loads of folks are showing true believer syndrome.

There are several categories from what I see:

1-People who simply flat out do not like Galloway. This includes myself.
2-People who do like him for the things he's said about Bush and the war but admit to having some reservations about him. I can respect this view.
3-People who say things like "well I know there is some dodgy stuff about him but all I care about is that he kicked Norm Coleman's ass and told the truth that no one in Congress was able to, etc." Basically that they'll support anyone who hates Bush and opposes the war.
4-The complete kool-aid drinkers who worship the man as a God and refuse to take any criticism of him into account because he blasted Bush and the war. Whenever someone posts a criticism of him they reply with something like "Quit posting the right wing talking points and drinking the neoCON kool-aid (quite ironic that they accuse the anti-Galloway folks of being kool-aid drinkers), this man speaks TRUTH 2 POWER" or when someone basically says he was more than anti-war and basically a friend and supporter of Saddam they reply with some sort of red herring like "The neoCONS supported Saddam for many years and now continue to support thugs like Musharraf, Karimov and Sharon today, all they care about is the advancement of American imperialism and corporate interests, blah blah blah" which is a valid point if arguing with a true neocon or war supporter but rather pointless against someone who hates Bush just as much as they do. These types are starting to drive me insane.

I'd be number 2, but I did think his speech against Coleman was good, but I was very suprised by that. Maybe replace "some" with "many". The speech isn't a vindication of him as a whole.

Lot's of the DUers ought to know that many neocons did oppose or at least criticize Sadamm Hussein - even in the 1980's - Paul Wolfovitz was among them I believe. It was more the Republican establishment (GHW Bush and Bob Dole for example) who were unwilling to condemn, and often therefore support, the Iraqi regime.
1086  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Liberal paper publishes favorable article on George Galloway on: June 06, 2005, 08:58:56 am
He is an admitted far-left extremist with disturbing ties to dictatorial regimes that violate fundamental human rights.
1.) Replace "an admitted" to "from my point of view"
2.) Change "disturbing" to "possible".

Quote from: htmldon
This action occurred after a meeting between Galloway and Saddam where the member of Parliament was giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
You ought to mention the meeting was in late 2002, kind Implies that it was during the war otherwise...

Quote from: htmldon
This wasn’t his first rise in support of the Iraqi dictator. In 1994, he had another meeting with Saddam and hailed him saying “Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability.”
Make it clear though that the meeting in 1994 which he said that famously over-quoted statement-which-he-could-have-said-for-any-reason, was the first, also that the other in 2002 was the Second. Of two. Kinda makes it sound like there were more...

Quote from: htmldon
In 2005, he carpetbagged his way from Scotland all the way to the inner-city London district of Bethennial, Green, and Bow. 
It's "Bethnal" Green and Bow, I hope you've already send that letter, might make you sound like someone ignorant of British politics Wink

Quote from: htmldon
Galloway inflamed the latent anti-semitic racial tensions in the area to defeat Oona King, a black Jewish Labour Party member.
Are you implying that HE intentionally inflamed the lated anti-semitic racial tensions in the area in order to unseat Oona King?? Did it have nothing to do with the fact that  in the European elections Respect won a plurality of the vote in the Tower Hamlets ward, and the consituency within it which had a more than half Muslim population made it probably the only seat he had any chance of winning?

p.s. On reading this, sorry to sound so pedantic. I'm no fan of Galloway, but I can't help but notice he's always always such an obvious, and easy target for so much defamation. Galloway is no more than a bit of an egotistic cock, that's it. I hope nobody minds if I'm going to play Devil's advocate for a bit Wink

1087  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Bush Pushing Global Democratic Revolution on: June 06, 2005, 07:56:55 am
It bothers me to no end how conservatives and Republicans have captured the idealism of the American people, offering a compelling vision that captures the imagination while liberals and Democrats have become basically the grouchy scolds who can only criticize but not offer up any compelling vision of our own that could at least equal the idealism that is inspired by President Bush:   

Bush Pushes Global Vision
# Spreading democratic reform has become a top U.S. priority, at times trumping urgent issues.

By Tyler Marshall, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — President Bush's ambitious vision of global democratic reform has begun to dominate the administration's foreign affairs agenda, in some cases pushing aside urgent international issues.

So far, the president's plan has been driven mainly by high-level rhetoric, symbolic gestures and a handful of modestly funded development programs. But collectively, this mix has started to shift the focus in relations with key nations.

In the four months since Bush unveiled the approach in his second inaugural address, nearly every meeting with foreign officials and many of the changes taking place within the Bush administration, including several key appointments, has reflected the priority of expanding the boundaries of democracy.

By now, the presidential vision even has its own buzz phrase: "practical idealism," a reference to the policy's underlying premise that in a post-Sept. 11 world, America's national security is tied directly to the spread of free and open societies everywhere, including the Middle East.

Although few foreign policy specialists interviewed for this article questioned the president's personal sincerity, some dismissed his plan as little more than fantasy. Others expressed doubt that the U.S. had the credibility to advance such ambitious reforms — especially in the Islamic world.

Whatever the eventual outcome, there is evidence of initial effects.

"People in the Middle East already see it as a very powerful initiative," said Walter Russell Mead, an expert on America's role in the world at the Council on Foreign Relations. "A lot of people are beginning to wonder if American foreign policy isn't in the midst of a fundamental change."


Interesting, but bear in mind that most of what George Bush says in his speeches is meaningless rhetoric, like many speeches by many people.

On the other hand, of course US policy in the Middle East could have accidential democratizing effects, and I hope it does. If so it would be a justification for that area of US foreign policy despite it having some obvious dodgy motivations.

However, I don't believe for one second that the Bush administration is pushing for a global democratic revolution, and I'd be distrustful of anyone who talks in such grandiose terms. This is a very big and infinitely complex world, not a bloody computer game!
1088  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: This is what a "liberal" Muslim country is like on: June 06, 2005, 07:41:55 am
Look, has anybody ever considered that whilst the rise of fundamentalist Islam is very much a rejection of the "West", it is also very much a reaction against the ideology of "modernisation by Westernization". This is quite an important thing to consider.

We can't look at other countries and cultures in terms of how advanced or backward they are compared to our own. BRTD can dig up any article about how unpleasant some other culture is. It's practically meaningless and completely unconstructive, if people keep scorning other cultures without any understanding (I'm not saying I have a great one, but I like to keep an open mind until I can KNOW something for sure) it becomes little more than small-minded fear and hatred of another nation or culture, and it's peoples' - Moreover, it pisses them off back in return. And I don't CARE "who started it" Wink

I don't know if there's some kind of a threat of a "Clash of civilizations",   but I bet Huntingdon would be very interested to hear that even some sex-crazed lefties are now arbritarily attacking Islam...

(I think I need a cigarette after this)
1089  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: This is what a "liberal" Muslim country is like on: June 06, 2005, 07:07:28 am
In the US, seeing a woman's ankles was considered taboo a hundred years ago.

You can't expect Muslim culture to advance three hundred years in thirty, let alone ten.

Well, you can help them along with verbal abuse, trade sanctions, and allowing women from muslim lands automatic immigration as refugees from human rights abuse, while disbarring muslim men from immigration.

Are you trying to see how many cultural and religious tensions could be horribly exacerbated in one go?
1090  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: This is what a "liberal" Muslim country is like on: June 06, 2005, 07:03:19 am
In the US, seeing a woman's ankles was considered taboo a hundred years ago.

You can't expect Muslim culture to advance three hundred years in thirty, let alone ten.

so why are all Muslim countries so far behind and backward?

Look, for a 'socialist', you seem extremely ignorant of the social, historical, economic etc. contexts that have and still do shape countries. Stop just gawping at the symptoms of underlying causes that I'd expect you more than anybody to be trying to point out.

I'd rather you boil it down to your simplistic Marxist bullsh**t rather than simplistic xenophobic bullsh**t.

Maybe you should read a few books on the history of muslim peoples...
1091  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Calvin (R) v. Hobbes (D) on: June 04, 2005, 11:40:53 am
I think Spaceman spiff should be Calvin's running mate, he might have "war hero" status of something. Susie Derkin's should be Hobbe's running mate.
1092  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: George Bush v. John Kerry (1956) on: June 04, 2005, 11:35:05 am
Zell Miller is more of a Democrat than you are.  Or at least what used to be the Democrats.

I'll agree with the last part.  Miller is a pre-1960s Democrat (quite appropriate for this thread I guess), and seems to be the last one left of his kind.  Jfern is more of a McGovern/Boxer Democrat, who have had the most influence in the party since the '60s.

I'd say Zell Miller is ideologically closer to even the present National democrat party than is jfern. I don't wish to try to back this hypothesis for now though...
1093  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: A quick question: on: May 29, 2005, 09:14:38 am

Try that, it's the American Conservative Union


This has a big list

Thanks very much
1094  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / A quick question: on: May 28, 2005, 11:24:45 am
Does anyone have a website that rates Representatives and Senators, like with ADA, but on how Conservative they are in % terms?

(I'm making a map...)
1095  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: OFFICIAL Mideast Voting Booth - May 2005 on: May 21, 2005, 01:11:48 pm
Mideast Governor: Joe Republic

Prop 13: Aye
Prop 14: Aye
Init 05: Aye
Init 06: Aye
Init 07: Aye
1096  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Wedding Ceremony on: May 19, 2005, 09:05:53 pm
Oh, and i am offering the couple a 75%-off discount on a 7-night stay at the penthouse suite in the newly completed 'The Luxe' hotel and entertainment center in Las Vegas, Nevada. A free trip to the Grand Canyon will be included.

It's on the very top two stories of the 45-story blue cylindrical (cone-topped) tower that makes up the main part of 'the Luxe'. The room's outer walls and most of the ceiling are one-way glass (so you two can see all of Vegas without all of Vegas seeing you!). The two floors are 4,500 square feet combined, and include a Whirlpool spa, Wine cooler full of fine vintages, a Movie projector room, private gambling room, 3 bathrooms, and fine room service/catering from the four-star restaurant downstairs. It's perfect, both for private getaways and for big parties.

Cheers! That kinda reminds me of "fear and loathing in Las Vegas" - Ether, anyone?
1097  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: THE BEST REPRESENTATIVE (Round one, bracket three) on: May 19, 2005, 07:47:01 pm
1. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

2. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)

3. John B Larsen (D-CT)

4. Tim Bishop (D-NY)

5. Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)

6. Martin Meehan (D-MA)

7. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)

8. Charlie Rangel (D-NY)

9. José Serrano (D-NY)

10. Joseph Crowley (D-NY)

11. Jerry Nadler (D-NY)

12. Weiner (D-NY)

13. Ed Towns (D-NY)

14. Major R Owens (D-NY)

15. Nydia Velazquez (D-NY)

16. Rob Andrews (D-NJ)....
1098  Forum Community / Forum Community Election Match-ups / Re: MissCatholic vs AuH20 on: May 19, 2005, 06:54:07 pm
The only people that deserve the death penalty are child molesters.

Murderers/rapists dont deserve the death penalty. i see no understanding in keeping them alive for 15 years when people who are pro-death penalty say that its the cost to keep them in prison better if they are dead.

I`m agasint that.. i totally belive that society can help murderers and rapists. child molesting is the worst human crime. they should be found guilty and then put to death within a month.

i understand why people have abortion and sympathise with their position but abortion is a sin.

i respect people that want to be gay. but my concern is polygamy. do we make that legal. the thing that i do push which i stated was gay adoption. they must be allowed to adopt. foster care does not work.

i hope that clears a few things up.

If you believe in the death penalty for child molesters you might as well do so for murderers and rapists. Why make such specific exceptions??

You've probably gotten too focused on the horrible nature of child molestation and overlooked easily comparable crimes such as murder and rape. Of course I don't believe in using the death penalty on anyone, but not because "it's just as bad" - It isn't - But it's still unnecessary and ineffective, and it's stooping to a low (but not equal) moral level.
1099  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / International Elections / Re: Why Blair won, why Howard lost, why Kennedy did well- Silent Hunter's analysis on: May 19, 2005, 06:33:43 pm
Interesting fact: Howard did worse in Tory targets with a more religious population than with more secular populations.

Interesting fact: Howard did worse in Tory targets with a more religious population than with more secular populations.

Does that mean places like Dorset South, Hove and Medway tend to be more religious than say Monmouth or Guildford (and the gains that created a blue slug crawling from central London)?

1100  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: 54'40 on: May 19, 2005, 05:38:03 pm
That's because, compared to other countries the United States is right winged!

So... every other industrialised/Western country is Left-winged?
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