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 on: Today at 09:05:11 pm 
Started by King of Kensington - Last post by jimrtex
The 1990 US Census did accept responses of Amish, Mennonite, and Hutterite coding them as Pennsylvania German, and Hugenot, coding them as French.

 on: Today at 09:04:41 pm 
Started by ApatheticAustrian - Last post by Shameless Bernie Hack
Hey, how about we care about all areas that are in decline, irrespective of their political attitudes in the past?

"Turn the other cheek" / "That which you did to the least of those among you you did to Me" and all that?

 on: Today at 09:04:09 pm 
Started by Deputy Game Moderator 1184AZ - Last post by New Canadaland
Any reason why Leitch won Surrey?

 on: Today at 09:04:01 pm 
Started by Frodo - Last post by Averroës
We simply can't afford it with the scale and complexity of the US healthcare system. 

The scale and complexity of the US "healthcare system" is exactly what we are struggling to afford. Unfortunately single payer does not automatically make that problem go away.

 on: Today at 09:02:28 pm 
Started by Deputy Game Moderator 1184AZ - Last post by Poirot
That was a lot more exciting than I thought. I want my money back from pollster and forecast who made me believe Bernier had a big lead. Maybe some underestimation of social conservative vote and anti-Bernier rural Quebec vote.

Scheer won Beauce

Scheer 51.11%
Bernier 48.89%

 on: Today at 09:01:07 pm 
Started by 3D X 31 - Last post by Medal506
2020: R+2.5%.
2024: D+15%.
2028: D+21%.

+15%? Let along +20%?

I don't think that's even possible especially in the modern day. Because of Internet and people just staying in their little bubble there probably won't be a president that gets more than 5 or 6 percent of the popular vote more than their opponent.

 on: Today at 09:00:35 pm 
Started by vern1988 - Last post by vern1988
Lets say Trump doesn't run in 2020, for whatever reason. Haley runs and win the GOP nomination, same goes for Harris. What would a map look like? 

 on: Today at 08:59:24 pm 
Started by ApatheticAustrian - Last post by pbrower2a
- snip -

Thanks for providing your insight, as per usual. That said, I do want to comment on it.


It's very common to see aggregate numbers for Asian Americans and see "Wow, Asians are doing better than whites." Then the more unscrupulous among us make the conclusion "There must be some form of Asian privilege!" Saying either statement uncritically neglects a few things:
 1.  Asians are concentrated in high-COL areas like California or the Northeast, which makes certain statistics (e.g. Asians' higher than average incomes) seem more impressive than they really are. So be careful with stats like HDI* if they don't take into account COL.

True about cost of living (COL). In recent times the high COL places are the booming areas. Only during energy booms are places of low COL good places in which to live or  start a small business.  People doing well in places of low COL seem either (1) to own much energy-generating property like farmland or ranch land,  (2) have the sort of work (like medicine) that practically ensure a high income, (3) have a (middle) income household as business owners (like a Chinese buffet restaurant in which the family owning it has an impressive income, but divide the the family income by four and the amount per family member isn't so impressive, or (4) have two family members with average or near-average incomes. Such would include two schoolteachers, a skilled tradesman and an accountant, an engineer and a nurse...   such a family could have an impressive income. And this family is lucky.  

In the study I did I looked at the average credit score in a state. Yes, it is possible for some big farmer owning properties from which his family makes a multi-million dollar income, but most of his employees are nearly destitute. You can imagine what the credit score is of the big farmer -- and what the credit scores of his workers are. The average statewide credit scores were still awful for most places with low COL, exceptions being Utah, Minnesota, and generally states in between.

Here is a surprise that I found about credit ratings as statewide averages: they correlated strongly negative -- to cancerweed*** use. Cancerweed use also correlates to poor educational performance as well as (more blatantly) medical distress that everyone knows about. Such was not in The Measure of America, but was in my analysis in a thread that derived from it.

A hint to Republicans -- they could have made Obamacare more effective by slapping high taxes on cancerweed use.

2a. Raw economic numbers don't account for any cultural disadvantages Asians have in American society, e.g. the dearth of Asians in the American music, film, and TV industries, the troubles Asians have with dating, etc.

Obviously the category of 'Asian'  includes people as disparate as Pakistani-Americans and Korean-Americans,  people who have less in common than, for example, Portuguese-Americans (or even Jamaican-Americans or Mexican-Americans) and Finnish-Americans. But in general, one expects all Asian groups to cluster in urban areas. (In my case, I am about half from English-speaking and half from German-speaking peoples[ I do not consider Mexican-Americans exotic except in appearance, and most of the blacks from from British colonies often as very, very British.

Asian-Americans seem to do well in the not-so-American genre of classical music. Those who are good in pop music often go to the Far East, where their talents are more marketable. Asian-American news reporters are highly visible in television except for Filipinos with Spanish surnames who can easily be confused with members of another ethnic group. Film? Hispanics and blacks don;t seem to do well there, either -- at least in  front of the cameras. Animation? I see lots of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese surnames.  

Trouble dating? Have you ever heard of 'rice fever'? But the idea that Asian men having trouble getting white or Hispanic women to date them ignores that (1) Asian-American life is generally good life, and (2) the children can be spectacularly beautiful.
2b. In fact, a lot of economic difficulties are hidden by aggregate measures like HDI, e.g. the so-called "bamboo ceiling" Asians face as they try to work their way up into upper management (obstacles that stem from the cultural attitudes alluded to in 2a).

The glass ceilings in Corporate America that shut off practically anyone from advancing far in bureaucratic hierarchies in private industry unless one enters through the fast track (by being born into the 'right family' hurts people of all ethnic origins -- including white people. Jobs in Corporate America are simply places for earning bare survival, something very different from the reality of the 1960s when opportunity was more open. I'd suggest to any brilliant person -- it is far better to start a business, become part of the civil service, enter a profession, or latch onto a trade than get a BA degree and take a job as a clerk as a stopgap while you prove your integrity, competence, and loyalty. You can still be a clerk who shows much integrity, competence, and loyalty thirty years later if you are not cast off by then -- and you will still barely survive.

This, I believe, reflects that the executive elite of America has begun to function much like a
Soviet-style nomenklatura. Should there ever be an American revolution analogous to those of 1789 in France or 1917 in Russia, then this class will be the first led  to the guillotine, the firing squad, or whatever means of mass death are then in place for people deemed exploiters.    

3. Treating Asians as a monolithic bloc, even if you know that they're clearly not one, is troublesome because...well...they are clearly not one. While certain groups like Indian-Americans are doing well, others (particularly Southeast Asians) have higher than average poverty rates and worse socioeconomic indicators.

Asian-Americans do worst (in states with an adequate number of them for statistical meaning) in Louisiana, which got a large contingent of Vietnamese refugees who felt that they would be more comfortable with the Francophile culture, the subtropical climate, and the opportunity to do commercial fishing that they would not find in... well, Minnesota. Their HDI in Louisiana (5.69) is still above the American average at 5.06 -- and much higher than the HDI of 4.12 in Louisiana for people as a whole, let alone the 2.73 for blacks in Louisiana.

But going beyond statistics can easily lead one into stereotypes, some of them exceedingly vile. But nonetheless one can figure that respect for formal learning correlates well to success in life. Contempt for learning portends a miserable life. Note well that some states do better than others in meeting basic human needs and some don't.  Some states have grossly neglected some ethic groups.

Anyways, back on the thread topic...

Since I've already mentioned Asian Americans, and other people have mentioned rural poverty faced by other races, I may as well mention a "case study" involving Asians in rural America.
NPR did an interesting article on the so-called Mississippi Delta Chinese, a community of Chinese-Americans who live in the rural Mississippi Delta, a lifestyle in contrast to the urban and suburban lifestyles of most Asian Americans these days. Now the Delta is perhaps the most deprived rural area in America, with socioeconomic indicators comparable to the developing world.** Because of this deprivation, the children of the Mississippi Delta Chinese, like children from rural areas across America, are leaving their hometowns for better pastures:

Cindy Ma tells me business is slow, as a lot of people have moved away from Greenville. Still, with this business, the Mas have managed to put their two sons through college and graduate school. One son is in medical school in Jackson, Miss.; the other is studying accounting at Ole Miss in Oxford.

That's been the story of many Delta Chinese: Work hard. Send your kids to college. Watch them move away.

On top of the usual deprivation found in the Delta, the community has also faced virulent racism; not terribly surprising, unfortunately, but it's interesting to see how racism from the Jim Crow era (and beyond) is experienced by people outside of the black-white dichotomy. That said, the whole article can be a read as a case study of the problems of rural America that have already been mentioned in this thread.

*The measure that you're quoting is not the HDI that people usuall talk about, which is always reported with three digits or decimal places. What you're using is the American Human Development Index, which was developed by Measure of America to be an index similar to the actual HDI.

**If anyone wants to read about extreme deprevation in America, I recommend reading $2 a Day by Kathryn Edin and H. Luke Shaefer. It talks about Americans literally living on less than two dollars a day, usually with no cash income at all, using case studies from both urban and rural America (including the Mississippi Delta, where the poverty and inequities are described quite vividly).

Poverty is real in America, a consequence of decisions that people have made (like refusing to move out of impoverished areas) and of historical legacies. Discussing such is unglamorous, and it may be that only when mass fear of poverty becomes the norm that people insist that their elected officials do something. There are plenty of blunders possible in life, from misguided loyalty to communities to such calamities as committing street crime, using drugs, becoming a heavy drinker early, siring or having an out-of-wedlock child, dropping out of school, getting a dishonorable discharge... But we can discuss the causes of poverty, both personal and structural, all we want.  


***The tobacco industry will never like me.

 on: Today at 08:59:11 pm 
Started by Speaker CXSmith (Labor-MA) - Last post by Averroës
It's a shame that he had to spoil a perfectly fine legacy in professional baseball by getting caught up in this thing of ours.

 on: Today at 08:58:32 pm 
Started by PennsyltuckyDem - Last post by Shameless Bernie Hack
How is the answer anyone but Nixon?

Nixon and LBJ interviewing each other would be fantastic.

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