Peruvian presidential election (2nd round) – June 5, 2016

[Famous Mortimer]

I don't know how to feel about Fujimori. It seems like there is a good deal of debate about whether he was a dictator or not... but in either case, perhaps his daughter could turn out to be like Park Geun-hye.

I suppose, as of right now, I'm rooting for whoever Peru Possible puts up.

Why would you support Bernie Sanders in the US but the ultimate neo-liberal in Peru?

[Famous Mortimer]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

[Famous Mortimer]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

He was chased out for a fairly specific reason: he demanded to get a third term, counter to his own constitution, and proceeded to run elections viewed as completely illegitimate.

You're implying with your language that Peru, by nature of its own culture, is corrupt. That's not a great thing to say, but it's certainly a common view about non-first world countries in the United States. What really troubles me is that you see the "worst case" scenario of killing innocent people as "simply a mistake." By saying this you are not only downplaying a fairly heinous action (Is Kent State "simply a mistake"?) but also putting Peruvian lives on a lower level than American ones. Do you really view "accidently" killing Peruvians as not that much of a problem? Are their lives worth less because of where they live? Is Fujimori's unpopularity the fault of Peruvians, who hate anyone that doesn't "magically make them rich?"
It seems like you believe in Worthington's Law (a Mr. Show reference I think you'll get): More Money = Better Than

Richard Nixon was never put on trial for Kent State. Nor do I think most people think he should have been.

[Famous Mortimer]

Fujimori is unquestionably a dictator. It's just that outside of the richest first world countries, being a dictator isn't a deal breaker.

He's in jail for some extrajudicial killings carried out by the military. Worst case scenario though, these killings were simply a mistake. Fujimori's own claim is that the people killed were Shinning Path sympathizers, in which case, no one would even care.

As for the corruption, that's a legit issue but it's a poor Latin American country, everyone is corrupt. So it's not that big an issue.

Fujimori was eventually chased out of power but it wasn't really for anything he did in particular. Every president of Peru for the last 20 years has ended their term with approval ratings in the single digits.

Short of magically making everyone rich, there's really nothing a Peruvian politician can do to avoid being hated once in office.

He was chased out for a fairly specific reason: he demanded to get a third term, counter to his own constitution, and proceeded to run elections viewed as completely illegitimate.

You're implying with your language that Peru, by nature of its own culture, is corrupt. That's not a great thing to say, but it's certainly a common view about non-first world countries in the United States. What really troubles me is that you see the "worst case" scenario of killing innocent people as "simply a mistake." By saying this you are not only downplaying a fairly heinous action (Is Kent State "simply a mistake"?) but also putting Peruvian lives on a lower level than American ones. Do you really view "accidently" killing Peruvians as not that much of a problem? Are their lives worth less because of where they live? Is Fujimori's unpopularity the fault of Peruvians, who hate anyone that doesn't "magically make them rich?"
It seems like you believe in Worthington's Law (a Mr. Show reference I think you'll get): More Money = Better Than

Richard Nixon was never put on trial for Kent State. Nor do I think most people think he should have been.

Since you're cherry picking one example from that, I'm going to assume you don't actually care that you're using neocolonialist language.
My point was that Kent State is universally viewed as a national tragedy, even though it was a "mistake". Do you see where I'm going here? It's almost like reading the wikipedia summary of Fujimori won't give you the full picture.

I'm using the example you provided.

I don't know what neo-colonial language you're talking about in this instance. I'm treating Peru the same way I would treat the US. If the US Air Force accidentally dropped a bomb on some random citizen's house I would assume it was a horrible mistake and I would not hold Obama personally responsible.

No, I don't see where you are going. Just because the military did something bad, it does not mean the president is personally responsible. The president might be in charge of overall military strategy but rarely do they mico-manage every individual military action.

[Famous Mortimer]

Again, I'm not devaluing Peruvian lives. I'm valuing them exactly as much as I would value American or any other lives. You're still claiming otherwise, although you haven't actually made any arguments to that effect.

[Famous Mortimer]

I find it amusing the two leading candidates are Japanese and Polish. Also wtf is up with PPK's logo?

Looks like a guinea pig. They are a common animal in Peru. Lots of parties use chickens or cows as logos.

[Famous Mortimer]

Alejandro Toledo will endorse PPK because he was his PM and they're both right-wing.

Alfredo Barnechea, coming from a centre-right party, will also probably endorse PPK.

Fernando Olivera's whole career is built around bashing the Fujimoris, so there's no question there.

It all comes down to how the left will vote. Garcia and Santos have a chance to be important.

[Famous Mortimer]

Is Humala unpopular?

Humala is the incumbent president of Peru.

[Famous Mortimer]

On paper APRA was social democratic, but under Garcia it was substantially to the left of that. He nationalized banks among various other services to poor effect.

Fujimori campaigned as more leftist than he governed, though. APRA and Garcia openly supported him in 1990 against Vargas Llosa, who was seen as far too draconian in his economic shock ideas, even though Fujimori later took similar policies from a think tank and used them in his government.

APRA is social democratic on paper NOW (actually more centre) but back in the 80s it was radically leftist in both presentation and governance. Just look at the full name American Popular Revolutionary Alliance. They were not third wayers, there was a reason elections they won kept getting voided by coups. Not that they were Marxist Leninist either. They were probably in line with Allende and the Sandistas. It wasn't until the End of History in the 90s that everyone vaguely left all over the world started declaring themselves a generic SI style social democrat.

[Famous Mortimer]

Who did APRA/Garcia back in the run-off last time?

[Famous Mortimer]

"As for endorsements, Alfredo Barnechea won't support any candidate because he sees no difference between PPK and Keiko on economic policies."

He's trying to be a left-winger now?

[Famous Mortimer]

If the left don't turn out to vote though, doesn't that help PPK?

[Famous Mortimer]

PPK vote lead shrings to around 120K.  Most likely he will win but it will be very close.

More like 103K.

You are right, typo.  I agues it now comes down to how the foreign votes look like and how much can Fujimori gain in the few remaining Peru votes.  I looked at the states with outstanding votes and there does not seem to be a bias in favor of either candidate so Fujimori has to hope the votes outsanding are DIFFERENT from the votes have have been counted so far in each state.  A difficult hope.

I imagine foreign voters are very in favor of PPK. Every Peruvian I've met in America absolutely hates Fujimori.